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Teach me Woah Breaking #5919842 09/09/15 02:59 PM
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Alright fellas, Amos is coming along like a real champ. Took him to the farm this weekend to get him on some planted pigeons for the first time and I was super super pleased with how he did. Seemed to have a good nose, and was locking up rather well on scent. Obviously he wasn't totally steady, holding point for various lengths before creeping in. He is 9 months old now, and I want to start the woah breaking process. Those that have pointing dogs wanna give me the basics? At the moment we dont have daily access to a bird field, and have been doing most of our work at a pasture turned soccer field.


Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5919939 09/09/15 03:46 PM
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All bird dogs point. The breaking process teaches them to hold point. There are two ways to teach a dog to hold point, with dozens of variations. The first way is to let the birds train the pups. That generally involves launchers and pigeons, with some whoa breaking mixed in. It's very effective. I use the Delmar Smith method, substituting the e-collar for the bump under the chin. My dogs are completely whoa broke before I put them on birds. I use pen raised quail, because I can be done with them for the summer. I like to start in August, and finish in time for hunting season.

I start off on the whoa post. I introduce the e-collar the same day, that I introduce the whos post. Here's cracker on her first day with the whoa post;



I keep them on the whoa post only until I can get out in front of them, and then go to the yard for heel and whoa. Cracker tended to sit, so I had to start with the suitcase hitch. I go from the yard to longer walks. The pup has pretty well gotten it down after three weeks.



I then go from the walks to whoa in the field. Here's Cracker in the field in the field, before I put her on birds. This whole process has taken me around four weeks.



This is her first day on birds. I train alone, so I had to plant the bird, where I could wrap the CC around a bush. Notice the slack CC.



I kept her on the CC for three training days. She only went around on the bird one time. Here she is after 9 training flushes.




I started walking some of the birds out after a few days. Here you go;




A little side note. My birds were not recalling all that well, so I used Cookie to point them while I netted them;



A lot depends on the pup, and you have to adjust for each pup. Cracker has never taken out a single pointed bird or covey.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5920115 09/09/15 04:55 PM
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Go onto your search engine and look up the "Buddy Stick" method of whoa breaking and steadying up for birddogs. It was introduced to me by the Hall of Fame trainer Buddy Smith of Collierville, TN. It has proven to be the easiest method for me since I have personally broken several dogs with it. There are several articles and videos on the internet showing how to use it. I have had some, but not all, pups whoa broke in 4-5 sessions using this method. There is a process that needs to be followed pretty closely to be effective. It is as near as a "can't miss" as I have ever used and the dog does not relate the pressure that is put on him to whoa or hold to you.

Last edited by NorthTXbirdhunter; 09/09/15 04:56 PM.
Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5920231 09/09/15 06:00 PM
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You can start with just heel and whoa. I never whoa a young dog on birds. I simply nick them with the e-collier if they take a step. I think my method, and the Smith method would be better described as collar conditioned. A properly collar conditioned pup is essentially a broke dog within sight. I guess that I've nicked my pups over a hundred times before putting them back on birds.

You can also go the other route and let the birds teach them. That takes a launcher. I've never owned a launcher or had and pigeon broke dogs, but they do fine.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5921025 09/10/15 01:20 AM
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Bill will your dog relocate on running birds on his own

Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: blanked] #5921610 09/10/15 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: blanked
Bill will your dog relocate on running birds on his own


Generally not. I don't let them most of the time.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5926841 09/13/15 10:21 PM
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Blank, Bill plays the NSTRA game and dogs cannot be allowed to creep or road birds but can be released to relocate when the game player cannot get the bird to flush.


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If it isn't white it is not a birddog.

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Lying is lying. Don't bitch about one doing it and condone another. That's called hypocrisy.
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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter] #5927225 09/14/15 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Go onto your search engine and look up the "Buddy Stick" method of whoa breaking and steadying up for birddogs. It was introduced to me by the Hall of Fame trainer Buddy Smith of Collierville, TN. It has proven to be the easiest method for me since I have personally broken several dogs with it. There are several articles and videos on the internet showing how to use it. I have had some, but not all, pups whoa broke in 4-5 sessions using this method. There is a process that needs to be followed pretty closely to be effective. It is as near as a "can't miss" as I have ever used and the dog does not relate the pressure that is put on him to whoa or hold to you.


I saw another video with a trainer who used the spin move to keep the pup from taking steps, but the problem I had with that is that it was after the fact. My training days are over but I trust the e-collar. Some pups will tighten up on point when nicked.

Pete Thuman at Pecan Hill brought the variable e-collar to my art of Texas. He's the best I've seen.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter] #5929505 09/15/15 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Go onto your search engine and look up the "Buddy Stick" method of whoa breaking and steadying up for birddogs. It was introduced to me by the Hall of Fame trainer Buddy Smith of Collierville, TN. It has proven to be the easiest method for me since I have personally broken several dogs with it. There are several articles and videos on the internet showing how to use it. I have had some, but not all, pups whoa broke in 4-5 sessions using this method. There is a process that needs to be followed pretty closely to be effective. It is as near as a "can't miss" as I have ever used and the dog does not relate the pressure that is put on him to whoa or hold to you.


A lot of these gimmicks work fine. A few rears ago barrel training was all the rage. The thing is, you can't take them wild bird hunting. Most dog never hunt without the e-collar. Even then, some have a difficult time changing over to wild birds.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5929838 09/15/15 06:46 PM
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Bill, this is no gimmick. It works real well. Buddy has broke several dogs in the Birddog Hall of Fame and he has used this method on all of them. He even broke Shadow Oak Bo and he has won 2 national championships in the last 3 years. If this is gimmick, I want a bunch of it if I can get results like this. To win at that level, they have to be more than steady. You keep roping them and I will keep sticking them. I like the stick method a lot better because the dog does not relate the pressure to you but to the stick.

Last edited by NorthTXbirdhunter; 09/15/15 08:23 PM.
Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: bill oxner] #5929873 09/15/15 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Go onto your search engine and look up the "Buddy Stick" method of whoa breaking and steadying up for birddogs. It was introduced to me by the Hall of Fame trainer Buddy Smith of Collierville, TN. It has proven to be the easiest method for me since I have personally broken several dogs with it. There are several articles and videos on the internet showing how to use it. I have had some, but not all, pups whoa broke in 4-5 sessions using this method. There is a process that needs to be followed pretty closely to be effective. It is as near as a "can't miss" as I have ever used and the dog does not relate the pressure that is put on him to whoa or hold to you.


A lot of these gimmicks work fine. A few rears ago barrel training was all the rage. The thing is, you can't take them wild bird hunting. Most dog never hunt without the e-collar. Even then, some have a difficult time changing over to wild birds.



And btw Bill...I don't play the "put and take" game and my dogs will hunt wild birds till the world looks level and do an excellent job of it. They were whoa broke and steadied with the "Buddy Stick".

Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter] #5929957 09/15/15 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Bill, this is no gimmick. It works real well. Buddy has broke several dogs in the Birddog Hall of Fame and he is used this method on all of them. He even broke Shadow Oak Bo and he has won 2 national championships in the last 3 years. If this is gimmick, I want a bunch of it if I can get results like this. To win at that level, they have to be more than steady. You keep roping them and I will keep sticking them. I like the stick method a lot better because the dog does not relate the pressure to you but to the stick.


Gimmick was a poor choice of words. I'm not trying to pick an argument on this thread. Just mostly trying to keep it going. The Smiths were no slouches either.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5929967 09/15/15 08:15 PM
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I love this stuff. Keep talking.


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Cast] #5930038 09/15/15 08:53 PM
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The stick method allows you to work from both the front and the back of the pup and never lose control where the rope allows more work from the rear and holding the pup back. I can lead the pup to point and hold on a training bird and walk around front while still keeping the pressure on the collar not allowing the pup to move. Repetition is still the key in both processes but the stick allows you to keep control during the whole process. During the whoa breaking process, I snap the stick on the dog in the kennel and do the same process as rope training, walking and whoaing the dog. But the stick allows me to work out front. I don't need a helper to flush where the rope trainer has to have one a lot of times. I never take the stick off or turn loose of the pup during the whole process until I put the pup back in the kennel. I have heard this method described as "power steering" for pups. You can also use this method to teach the pup to heel. It has simplified whoa training for me and my pups have never lost any desire or drive or style as a result of the training.

Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5930046 09/15/15 08:57 PM
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I eventually get all around the pup during heel and whoa. Here's the buddy stick for you guys. I just took this thread beyond whoa breaking.



Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5933099 09/17/15 04:09 PM
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When do you introduce the e-collar using the buddy stick?


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: bill oxner] #5933111 09/17/15 04:21 PM
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You can start with it immediately to collar condition the pup. I only use the "nick" feature of the collar only after the pup has started to whoa somewhat on his on and starts to move. I use it more for the steadying of the pup around birds but that is way into the process after a couple of weeks. I never jolt them but only light nicks with the collar

Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter] #5933225 09/17/15 05:51 PM
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Re: Teach me Woah Breaking [Re: Baylor_Bears] #5933449 09/17/15 08:25 PM
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Whoa training your Pointing dog is a multi-stage process. It is assumed that you have already trained your pup to heel and heels well. If not trained to heel, use the optional prong collar. It is assumed that the pup has been collar conditioned properly. See http://www.horseshoebendgermanshorthairedpointers.com/?page_id=158 for proper collar conditioning. The first stage of the training is done in a yard or park.

Most trainers recommend the whoa command be taught after at least one season of hunting. Depending on the age of the pup when the first season arrives you may want to start whoa before that.

Equipment needed: A six foot lead, a metal prong collar ( optional), an electronic collar, A Buddy stick, and an optional whistle.

Put the electronic collar around the dogs flank.
1. Heel the dog on lead (with the prong collar if not already trained to heel ) and give the whoa command while stopping. Make sure the dog remains standing.
2. Repeat for ten minutes stopping frequently. Keep all lessons around ten minutes. You are teaching the meaning of whoa. Use lots of praise and encouragement.
3. Repeat the lesson until the dog stops easily without trying to sit. The prong collar is no longer needed.
4.Introduce the E-collar low-level stimulus. Find the dogs minimum level of stimulus (for the collar around the flank) Stimulate the dog as the command is given. Release stimulus as soon as the dog stops. Repeat until the dog will stop easily.
5.I now introduce a whistle which is blown after the verbal command is given. The idea is to get the dog to associate the whistle with the whoa command and the action of stopping. The whistle is so the dog will respond at a distance. Of course the sound must be distinctive from any whistle already used for other commands.
6.Use the E-collar low-level stimulus every time the command is given. (Whistle or verbal or both)
7. A few lessons teaching the whistle/whoa command and move on to the Buddy Stick. ( no longer use pinch collar)
8. Attach the Buddy Stick to the dogís collar and start whoaing the dog as far from you as the stick will allow. (command /whistle).
9. Use the Buddy Stick to make the dog stop when commanded. Continue to apply low-level stimulus with the E-collar.
10. Whoa the dog with the stick. Put the stick down in front of the dog and back away. Repeat and add distance from the dog. Once the dog understands it must stop at a distance, and it remains standing in place, move to the next step.
11.Swap the Buddy pole for a long check cord. With the stimulus/command the dog should stop on the check cord. If not go back to Buddy pole for a lesson or two more. Move slow at first. Moving slow increases the likely hood of the dog stopping immediately. Speed up the dog. As the speed of the dog increases, extend out the command verbally, and nick-nick-nick to stop the dog. Once the dog performs well on the check cord move on to next step
12.Move to free run. Repeat step 11 with the dog running free. Introduce distractions. Such as kicking your feet, throwing your hat, or have someone create a distraction. Every time the dog moves apply stimulation. Continue with distractions until the dog holds steady.
13.Switch to a hunting field if possible. You may have to move back to the beginning stages. Some dogs may get over excited thinking its time to hunt. My male Rango forgot his training as soon as he hit the field. So we went back to the beginning. It didnít take long to run through the steps and get him on track.
14.If you are not wanting to steady to flush and shot your pup, throw a pigeon out and let the pup chase. It will put some enthusiasm into the dog for whoaing if a bird chase is used as a reward.
15.Phase out using stimulation once the pup is reliably whoaing in any situation. I would keep an e-collar on the dog (while in the field) just in case.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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