I am looking at buying a thermal or no scope. I can only spend between 2500 and 4000 dollars.
In all honesty what yardage are scopes in that price range usable 90% of the time. The ones I looked through at night seemed to be pretty good to about 100 to 125 yards then iffy. The thermal became distorted and hard to distinguish a pig size target and the night vision units simply would no show anything past about 100 yards. Not on a moonlight night.

Let's start with you telling us what scopes you have actually looked through and go from there.

DNS knows his stuff, has played around with a bunch of night optics, so head what his advice is...

I agree with him, what have you looked through? Plenty of entry level thermal optics will be not as good but a slight step up in price, within your price-range, can get a very useful thermal to use for hundreds of yards.

Having said that, most people will find their shots are almost all within 100 yards or less at night. My max shot might be around 150, but that was on a running young coyote and was able to drop him with my thermal scope easily. I am able to ID animals enough to shoot well out past 250 yards, if I can see that far through the brush and trees, with my thermal scope (Thor 336 3x) and can easily ID animals but would not shoot out past 450 yards with same scope.

With digital NV, the limiting factor is illumination. With a good IR illuminator, or really a good moon, I have been able to see animals and ID out to around 400 yards, but much more commonly around 150-200 with good IR. There are tricks and experience with thermal vs NV, and as you get more experience behind your selected platform you will learn the nuance that will allow you to tell a pig vs calf pretty quickly.

So, why not start off by letting us know what you played with so far in the NV optic world?

I'm hardly an expert, but my experience at night has been that you can get within 100 yards of 90% of all hogs, and most of the time you can get considerably closer. As I've been chiggered a couple of times (don't ask) while shooting from the prone position, I no longer do so until first frost. Since I don't shoot prone, the 300 yard shot is pretty much toast, even if my gear (or the shooter) were up to it. I'm sure someone will chime in to the the contrary, but I think anything over 150 yards, off of sticks, in the dark, while excited, is pretty tough shooting. All of this is a round about way of saying that I wouldn't spend twice as much to extend my range from 100 yards to 200 yards, unless I really had a specific task in mind. While you can't have too much range for spotting, I think that 100 yards of shooting range buys you 90% of the fun.

Of course, my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

With nv its best to use a good ir light along with it on dark nights

I know nothing about thermal but as others have said most shots for me are 100yds or so, ability to actually shoot farther is not a big factor ( for me ) but it is VERY important to me to be able to SEE and locate pigs at much farther distances. After that its just a matter of walking closer and shooting em. I have seen pigs at 400plus yds with my unit but wouldnt even think about shooting that far. ( and you can do that all for less than $500 )

I have posted this before but here is a video of a pig I shot a couple of weeks ago with an older version ( less magnification ). I basically walked up within 100yds ( approx ) and he never had a clue ( this has happened many times but I only recently started videoing ).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDLrzYq81uM

Looks good miket1

Also how do you plan to use it? Will it be from a stand over looking a feeder, or do you plan on stalking in open fields? Being able to recognize (know there is a possible target with thermal at distance), then stalking up to a range where you can make a positive ID is a huge advantage over IR.

The more we know about what you have looked through, and how you plan to use it, the more we might be able to help.

I have looked through Night Optics gate gen 2+ and gen 3.
ATN Thermal, not sure of the model though.
The GEN 3 NO was real good and I definitely could shoot anything coyote size and up with it but it was out of my price range.
These were friends of mine and I didn't pay attention to models.

Have a look here,

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/5904264/Re:_1st_Hog_Kills_-_Armasight_#Post5904264

Also there is a thread in this section on the same optic. Another person asked some questions comparing it to the pulsar XD38.

00spy gives a fair and honest review of the strength and weaknesses of both scopes and leaves it up to the individual to make an informed decision. Do lots of research, and keep asking questions, there is a thermal that will fit your needs. It all depends on how often you plan on using it, how far you need to identify your targets, etc.

good luck hope this helps

This will be my first year of night hunting. My humble opinion is thermal will let you locate animals at further range than NV. Identification is another story - that is dependent on the resolution and optics the thermal has. Maybe it's a hog at 600 yards, maybe a bedded deer - you will be wasting a lot of time to get close enough to tell the difference.

I^2 can see pretty well if there is good ambient light. Digital is 100% dependent on a torch - it is probably slightly less sensitive to IR light than your eyes are of visible light. If you can see it with a flashlight, digital can see it with an IR flashlight.

I now hunt all thermal, but hunt with guys who use NV (Gen III). I spot animals at distance they never see. I identify animals in the shadows that they can't even see. When it is a cloudy night, guess which system loses utility - NV.

What is really interesting about animal camouflage is that it is effective in the dark against NV. A brown deer in brown grass can be all but invisible to NV, but stand out nicely with thermal.

NV is much better for ground navigation purposes.



Digital NV isn't 100% dependent on an IR torch. That dependents on the ambient conditions and the type of digital NV. No doubt it is dependent on a torch during the vast majority of the time with the current commercial systems, but not 100% dependent.