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AR-15 let me down!! #5891546 08/23/15 02:34 PM
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Yesterday I went into the woods to set up my motion camera. Typically when I'm in the woods, but not hunting, I carry my AR15 rifle (5.56/.223) because its easy to carry and holds 30 rounds. So as I'm kneeling down configuring my camera, in relatively open area next to a swampy creek bed, I hear movement in the woods and look up to see a large herd of wild hogs making their way towards me! I quietly switched off the safety on my rifle and took position behind the tree. Looking back I should have waited for more of the herd to come into the open but I was afraid that at any moment they would realize that I was there and run; so when the first of the bigger ones presented itself for a nice shot I took it.

The hog I shot was only 40-50 FEET away and I saw it drop; so I took aim off of him and looked for a secondary target. As I moved my attention away from the hog I shot it got up and made a mad dash for cover along with the rest of the herd. To my dismay I could not find any blood trail to follow. So thinking that I had managed to miss my mark I got in my truck and left very disappointed. From there I went to my dads house and set up a target to see if my rifle is shooting true. Sure enough my rifle is shooting right on (iron sights). Not trying to brag but I do shoot a lot and am quite proficient will all of my weapons.

So that bring me to the conclusion that it is very unlikely that I missed, so the .223 must not have done its job. My gun is loaded with Hornady 55grain V-Max...so at only 40 or 50 feet away it must have zipped right through without expanding (why no blood?) or it penetrated but did not exit. I've killed one hog before with the AR-15 but it took three shots with FMJ ammo. Recently I use the VMax stuff because I never know what I'll encounter and I want to inflict as much damage as possible. Yesterday I ALMOST took out the Mosin Nagant instead...if only.

So what yall say. Did my bullet: Miss? Clean pass? Fail to exit?

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891552 08/23/15 02:37 PM
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If he was running at you and the bullet hit his skull I could see the vmax fragmenting and not reallly do damage

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891556 08/23/15 02:41 PM
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Vmax is a varmint bullet made to expand rapidly in a small thin skinned animal not a hog. 223 will work if you are shooting behind the ear to sever the spinal cord, even then you should look at using a heavier bullet made for hunting larger animals than varmints. There are several 62 grains offerings and heavier that are not varmint or FMJ rounds.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891561 08/23/15 02:43 PM
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Sounds like bullet failure if it knocked him down and not a miss. Personally I'd be hunting with at least a quality cup and core like a Fusion or Corelokt if hogs were on the menu. Lack of blood trail is surprising as I would have expected a failure from a Vmax to be a surface detonation not a pass thru


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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891617 08/23/15 03:27 PM
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Your Ar did NOT let you down. Your choice of bullet did.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891621 08/23/15 03:32 PM
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The AR did it's job just fine....you were in the right place with the wrong ammo.
VMax will take down pigs with a well placed head or neck shot but anywhere else and they usually walk.
You simply did not have the luxury of time to set up your shot but hell, they are pigs, I woulda been right in there with you!


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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891631 08/23/15 03:46 PM
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Use .223 55gr fmj down at WMA that hog hunt... Since open ta public, & usualy in thick terrian... Keep my shots ta short distance, even in open terrian... .223 is small calabor, & entry wound will be very small, leaving very little blood trail, blood fills inside body cavity.. My shots are 98% moving targets so aim for heat & lung, bigger target, room for errer... Very little blood... Am sure You took time ta look area over, & at 40-50ft tid sure ya hit your mark... Wasnt their.. Dropped hog the other day with .55gr hp at 25yrds off hand, my shoulders are kaput, lucky if could draw 30# bow, usedta draw 70# so was suprised whin hog went down, it was eating with head down so took nevk spin shot... Sounds like one of them zombi hogs ... Did same with 410 smooth bore, hog spun around & bee-lline straight at my feet, orange was covered by fallen tree.. Had to side step... Looked for blood, nothing, surched for 45-to hour... Got ta house, took old milk jug, hit it.. Was using slug, with smooth barrell.. Slug is size of me .45 round ball.. So thar should have been blood... i blame me... Bad shot... rofl Think thats reason they started coming out with zombi rounds ... flag



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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891668 08/23/15 04:07 PM
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I don't normally "hunt" with the AR...but I do have some Fusion 62gr ammo in the box that I should have used. Is it possible that the vmax bullet hit a bone and failed to exit? At such a short range I would expect it to be devastating. Next time I'll just take the 12 gauge; but that was probably a once in a lifetime encounter. Those woods are so thick its hard to move around without making noise.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891671 08/23/15 04:09 PM
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It was a perfect broadside shot by the way. I should have just went for a head shot.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891700 08/23/15 04:33 PM
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It might have killed it they don't always bleed. I shot one with a tikka .308 behind the shoulder and it ran 20 yards and dropped and not one drop of blood. Another I shot one about 100 pounds with my AR 10 and it ran 30 yards and dropped again no blood.


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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891702 08/23/15 04:33 PM
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One thing is though a bolt action is more accurate than a semi auto


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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891705 08/23/15 04:35 PM
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55 V-max is a varmint bullet and not meant for a big, tough hog. 223 is not the ideal hog gun anyway, and couple that with a varmint bullet meant to fragment and limit penetration, and you have a very ineffective hog rifle. Take something bigger next time. 7 days a week and twice on Sunday, I'd rather have a rifle with 4 or 5 rounds that's powerful enough to take a hog than the 30 rounds of 223 you are carrying. How many rounds did you shoot anyway? All 30 rounds?



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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Aggieman775] #5891706 08/23/15 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: Aggieman775
One thing is though a bolt action is more accurate than a semi auto


That's not as true as it once was.


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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891720 08/23/15 04:45 PM
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scratch hmm, diamitur of .223 vs 12gauge... wich will give better blood trail? Think what hog might have done, is what is called deathrun experts correct me if wrong... flag



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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891725 08/23/15 04:47 PM
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It might not be as true but part is also the shooter. With a semi auto they know they could get a follow up shot so the first shot might not be completely ethical, but with a bolt action you most likely will get one shot so you know it has to be a good one.


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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: ChadTRG42] #5891757 08/23/15 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
55 V-max is a varmint bullet and not meant for a big, tough hog. 223 is not the ideal hog gun anyway, and couple that with a varmint bullet meant to fragment and limit penetration, and you have a very ineffective hog rifle. Take something bigger next time. 7 days a week and twice on Sunday, I'd rather have a rifle with 4 or 5 rounds that's powerful enough to take a hog than the 30 rounds of 223 you are carrying. How many rounds did you shoot anyway? All 30 rounds?


All 30 rounds? LOL...no I'm not one of those types. I fired the first shot...when that hog fell I moved on to a secondary target and fired one more shot that missed for sure...as I was making that second shot I had noticed in the corner of my eye that the first hog was getting up and I tried to get on him again.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Aggieman775] #5891779 08/23/15 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Aggieman775
One thing is though a bolt action is more accurate than a semi auto


That's not true at all. My AR-15's and LR-260 are just as accurate as the bolt action rifles I shoot. You just have to find what each rifle likes to shoot.

The V-Max bullet is a really poor choice for hunting hogs. Try the Sierra 65 grain Gameking or the Speer 70 grain soft point bullets,they are pretty good hunting bullets for a 223 caliber AR/bolt action.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891785 08/23/15 05:21 PM
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You guys are right that I chose the wrong bullet to carry in a caliber that's less than ideal for stopping power. My other choices are a scoped 308 set up for long range, a break-open shotgun, or a Mosin Nagant...the AR is just easier to carry in the thick woods. From now on when I go out there I'll just take the Mosin Nagant loaded with 5 rounds of Hornady 150gr SST, or I'll take the shotgun.

At this point my AR is just going to be a trendy paper puncher unless I invest in a different upper for it.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891792 08/23/15 05:27 PM
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I'd recommend Sierra 65 grain Gameking, or 70 grain Barnes TSX.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891798 08/23/15 05:30 PM
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As noted, Nivlac, the AR15 did not fail you, but the ammo did where you placed the shot. You also failed in that you did not make sure that the target you hit was actually down. Yeah, it fell over, but hogs get up sometimes. I have had to shoot hogs on a couple of occasions that go up and ran after that I managed to shoot again. I have also been burned a couple of times by hogs that got up and ran when I got greedy and went after other targets. My worst experience was a hog I shot at about 50 yards. It stilled, and after about 5 minutes, I decided to go claim my trophy. I was half way down the ladder when I heard rustling. I got my thermal spotter up in time to see the hog going through the fence and onto my neighbor's property. The curly shuffle/dirty dance/dance of death is not diagnostic of a dying hog, FYI.

No blood? The first mulefooted hog I shot was with a .45-70. The hog ran about 100 yards. There was no blood. There was no blood on the hog. In fact, we could not find the hole. It was not until after taking the hog back up to the house on the cart that it started to leak a little.

There are a variety of reasons you might not find blood. Aside from search skills, not finding blood may be due to a lock of a well opened exit wound. Entry wounds, especially through the shield area, can self seal. High entry wounds (such as downward angle shots) also tend to produce little blood as the blood just drains inside the body.

So take this as a learning experience and stop blaming your gear for your choices of bullet type and shot placement. The AR15 worked as designed and the VMAX undoubtedly did as well.

Quote
It might not be as true but part is also the shooter. With a semi auto they know they could get a follow up shot so the first shot might not be completely ethical, but with a bolt action you most likely will get one shot so you know it has to be a good one.


That is just one of those bolt action fanboy sorts of myths. There are all sorts of videos on youtube of people taking crappy shots with bolt guns as well. I know people want to believe this, but the gun type does not dictate how well the shooter will choose his shot. Everybody gets equally excited for their first shot, regardless of the gun they carry.

This is just a bolt-action classic...




Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 08/23/15 05:31 PM.

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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Double Naught Spy] #5891806 08/23/15 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
As noted, Nivlac, the AR15 did not fail you, but the ammo did where you placed the shot. You also failed in that you did not make sure that the target you hit was actually down. Yeah, it fell over, but hogs get up sometimes. I have had to shoot hogs on a couple of occasions that go up and ran after that I managed to shoot again. I have also been burned a couple of times by hogs that got up and ran when I got greedy and went after other targets. My worst experience was a hog I shot at about 50 yards. It stilled, and after about 5 minutes, I decided to go claim my trophy. I was half way down the ladder when I heard rustling. I got my thermal spotter up in time to see the hog going through the fence and onto my neighbor's property. The curly shuffle/dirty dance/dance of death is not diagnostic of a dying hog, FYI.

No blood? The first mulefooted hog I shot was with a .45-70. The hog ran about 100 yards. There was no blood. There was no blood on the hog. In fact, we could not find the hole. It was not until after taking the hog back up to the house on the cart that it started to leak a little.

There are a variety of reasons you might not find blood. Aside from search skills, not finding blood may be due to a lock of a well opened exit wound. Entry wounds, especially through the shield area, can self seal. High entry wounds (such as downward angle shots) also tend to produce little blood as the blood just drains inside the body.

So take this as a learning experience and stop blaming your gear for your choices of bullet type and shot placement. The AR15 worked as designed and the VMAX undoubtedly did as well.

[quote]It might not be as true but part is also the shooter. With a semi auto they know they could get a follow up shot so the first shot might not be completely ethical, but with a bolt action you most likely will get one shot so you know it has to be a good one.


Pretty much sums me up.

Last edited by Nivlac; 08/23/15 05:36 PM.
Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891812 08/23/15 05:38 PM
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If the AR goes out again I'll make sure it has different ammo.

Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891829 08/23/15 05:47 PM
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A mag full of 60gr partitions will make that AR sing. Pigs hate it when your AR is singing.


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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Nivlac] #5891839 08/23/15 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Pretty much sums me up.


We have all been there. cheers


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Re: AR-15 let me down!! [Re: Double Naught Spy] #5891892 08/23/15 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
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Pretty much sums me up.


We have all been there. cheers


Amen Brother. Yes, we're not all one shot wonders. Just very few of us are willing to admit our mistakes. Learn from your mistakes, when possible let others learn from your mistakes (like in this thread), and hopefully we're all better for it. (I try to post success's, but sometimes we learn more from our failures.)


God Bless
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