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Re: 243 bullets [Re: littlebass] #5514857 01/02/15 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: littlebass
I'm a little confused about some of the commentary here. I read numerous comments from folks (myself included) who have had good experience (actual personal experience) taking deer and other critters with the Sierra 85gr HPBT. I then read arguments from a few folks who have no personal experience with this exact bullet but are hell bent on telling everyone it's no good for killing deer size game based solely on something they read in a manual. Personally I couldn't really care less if anyone else likes to hunt with this bullet. Don't buy 'em and there will be more for me to buy and load. Do those of you who continue to argue against this bullet for deer have any specific real life experience where you have made an accurate shot on the vitals of a deer and the deer failed to perform as intended? If so I'd love to hear about it. Maybe I've been lucky with my experience this year using this bullet. Maybe I haven't been lucky. Maybe the bullet will actually make a quick kill on a whitetail deer if placed into the vitals. Neither of the deer I killed with this bullet this year had exit wounds. The doe dropped right where she stood and the buck took two or three steps, fell down, kicked for about 15 seconds, then expired. All 7 pigs, between 100-225 lbs, were shot behind the ear and dropped where they stood. They were all shot from the luxury of a blind where I had a good rest and was able to make that kind of shot. I honestly didn't pay that close attention to exit wounds on any of the pigs but I don't recall seeing any. It really didn't matter. They were all dead right there. The coyote had a small entrance and small exit, again dropped in his tracks but I realize we are discussing deer size game specifically. I don't suggest that this is the best bullet on earth for killing deer. Sure there are many others made that will do the job as well and some probably better for certain situations. That can be said for many "hunting" bullets in many calibers. The original post referred to the lack of an exit wound for blood trailing purposes but also mentioned that the deer only moved 20 yards before expiring. Looks like from my experience and others we can say that "no exit wound" is at least somewhat common with the 85HPBT. So what I'm reading repeatedly are accounts from hunters who use and are happy with the performance of this bullet based on successful personal experience... followed by arguments from folks who don't have any negative personal experiences but argue against the bullet anyways. Makes perfect sense.

Well I typed this then read where BOBO says that he had this bullet blow up on impact of a whitetail. Somehow I missed that before. That must've been kinda funny looking. What did the deer do? Walk/run off injured or unharmed? I've never had any kind of bullet "blow up" on impact and I do a lot of varmint hunting with small frangible bullets. How fast were you pushing that 85HPBT?


I believe he said it was factory PMC.


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5515027 01/02/15 03:28 PM
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Since we are on the 85gr BTHP. Does anyone know if there is a manufacturer that still uses them.
Below is the box specs on the ones I have used for many years with complete success, Federal discontinued them. The best I can figure is so they could jump on board the new "ballistic tip" terminology that everyone loves to hear. I am sure marketing to the tactical rage-age has something to do with it. They have the new "Vital-Shok" in an 85 grain with almost the same ballistics, I might just switch to that. (that might be the one that BOBO mentioned)



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Re: 243 bullets [Re: littlebass] #5515122 01/02/15 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: littlebass
I've never had any kind of bullet "blow up" on impact and I do a lot of varmint hunting with small frangible bullets.


here on the internet its a common thing, so is seeing a deer with its jaw blown off. soon as you start talking bout head shots everyone will tell you how bad it is cause theyve seen a deer with its jaw blown off.
between me, my family and friends theres at least a 1000 years combined exp. in those 1000 years weve never had a bullet blow up upon impact nor seen a deer with its jaw blown off.



Re: 243 bullets [Re: littlebass] #5515144 01/02/15 04:16 PM
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littlebass: very good post. Since I am one of the offenders who has formed an opinion about the 85gr HPBT without having actually used it on deer, I hope you will permit me to explain.

My first post was simply in response to the gentleman who stated that the 85HPBT was a stouter bullet per Sierra. While that is true in general of Sierra's HPBTs, it is not true (per Sierra) of the 224s or the 243s.

I read, from this forum and others, that a lot of guys use the 85HPBT on deer and are happy with the results. I don't doubt that at all, and don't have a problem with them or you using that bullet if you are having success with it.

I do have experience using other bullets designed for varmints, on deer. And if I am culling does, and can wait for a broadside shot, my experience is that they are very effective.

But for general hunting, if I want to be ready for muy grande, who may not present a textbook body presentation, I want a bullet designed for deeper penetration.



Let me say, as a scientist and engineer, it is not always necessary to have empirical evidence to reach a conclusion. When I read Sierra's literature on this bullet, their earlier postings say that it was designed as a varmint bullet. Later postings say that it is "highly effective on deer and antelope as long as shots are carefully placed". Further, they say for handguns (read lower velocity than rifles), it is "nearly ideal".

Now, for comparison, look at what they say about the 85gr Spitzer, which they call the "Varminter": "suitable for small deer and antelope, but must be used with proper shot placement. In handguns, this bullet is to "hard" for use on field game because of limited velocities..." My read is that the 85gr Spitzer, designed for varmints, may be "Harder" than the 85HPBT.

Further, regarding their 100gr GameKing, Sierra mentions its "heavy double tapered jacket, and deep penetration". I do have experience with that bullet, and I am one who has had it "blow up" and not reach the vitals. I know this because the deer were recovered after follow up shots were required.

So my conclusion is that, I prefer a "harder" bullet that the Sierras for general purpose deer hunting, where I want to be able to take shots pretty much as they come, and not have to wait for a broadside presentation. I hunt deer primarily with 6mms and quarterbores. And I enjoy trying different cartridges and bullets. My experience is that there are plenty of bullets available that I am confident in, so I prefer not to use a bullet that "may work most of the time".

Please understand, this is not a shot at you or others who use and are happy with that bullet. If it works for you, I am perfectly ok with that. This forum is for exchanging ideas and opinions, and I value the facts and data that you provide.

Hope you have a happy new year, and I look forward to more exchanges in the future.

Re: 243 bullets [Re: littlebass] #5515357 01/02/15 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: littlebass
I'm a little confused about some of the commentary here. I read numerous comments from folks (myself included) who have had good experience (actual personal experience) taking deer and other critters with the Sierra 85gr HPBT. I then read arguments from a few folks who have no personal experience with this exact bullet but are hell bent on telling everyone it's no good for killing deer size game based solely on something they read in a manual. Personally I couldn't really care less if anyone else likes to hunt with this bullet. Don't buy 'em and there will be more for me to buy and load. Do those of you who continue to argue against this bullet for deer have any specific real life experience where you have made an accurate shot on the vitals of a deer and the deer failed to perform as intended? If so I'd love to hear about it. Maybe I've been lucky with my experience this year using this bullet. Maybe I haven't been lucky. Maybe the bullet will actually make a quick kill on a whitetail deer if placed into the vitals. Neither of the deer I killed with this bullet this year had exit wounds. The doe dropped right where she stood and the buck took two or three steps, fell down, kicked for about 15 seconds, then expired. All 7 pigs, between 100-225 lbs, were shot behind the ear and dropped where they stood. They were all shot from the luxury of a blind where I had a good rest and was able to make that kind of shot. I honestly didn't pay that close attention to exit wounds on any of the pigs but I don't recall seeing any. It really didn't matter. They were all dead right there. The coyote had a small entrance and small exit, again dropped in his tracks but I realize we are discussing deer size game specifically. I don't suggest that this is the best bullet on earth for killing deer. Sure there are many others made that will do the job as well and some probably better for certain situations. That can be said for many "hunting" bullets in many calibers. The original post referred to the lack of an exit wound for blood trailing purposes but also mentioned that the deer only moved 20 yards before expiring. Looks like from my experience and others we can say that "no exit wound" is at least somewhat common with the 85HPBT. So what I'm reading repeatedly are accounts from hunters who use and are happy with the performance of this bullet based on successful personal experience... followed by arguments from folks who don't have any negative personal experiences but argue against the bullet anyways. Makes perfect sense.

Well I typed this then read where BOBO says that he had this bullet blow up on impact of a whitetail. Somehow I missed that before. That must've been kinda funny looking. What did the deer do? Walk/run off injured or unharmed? I've never had any kind of bullet "blow up" on impact and I do a lot of varmint hunting with small frangible bullets. How fast were you pushing that 85HPBT?


PMC loads so probably 3100-3200. Blew up on shoulder six inch diameter hole no penetration past shoulder blade, knocked it down and then took off. Meat and hair every where. watched it go three hundred yards before it bedded down. After watching it it for 30 min I figured some thing was wrong got closer and put a bullet six inches below the ear at base of neck.

Here is another cup and core blow up but this with a 115 gr vld. This shot sent metal shards all through chest but nothing made it into the chest cavity. Follow up shot via high shoulder finally put him down.



I also had to help a friend track a deer he shot with 270 using 130 GK. Found the deer but took a follow up shot. Similar to my 243 experience except we found the two small holes in the cavity. Most Likely what was left of the core. We also found big part of the jacket in the shoulder meat. Obviously the jacket and core separated on impact.


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5515370 01/02/15 06:24 PM
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Something shy of 300 deer I've shot, and never had a bullet blow up (that I know of). Maybe it's because I shoot em in the lungs and not the leg bones.

And I have seen deer with jaws blown off and chunks of face missing. Generally, I think that's from the poor shooters taking shots that they shouldn't. I guided for a time, and I have seen my share of poor shots. Had a guy in my jeep once when the ranch foreman radioed me and told me to shoot all the does I saw because we were 300 does below what we were supposed to take off the ranch. Well, I told the guy in my jeep that we were going to do some serious shooting, starting now. He was the guest, so I let him shoot first. He missed 7 in a row from less than 100 yards in less than an hour. Geez. Handed him my rifle and he got a few. But it was people like that who shouldn't be doing head shots.

But...that's off topic. As for 243 bullets, I'd probably go for Partitions or Accubonds.


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: 603Country] #5515397 01/02/15 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: 603Country
Something shy of 300 deer I've shot, and never had a bullet blow up (that I know of). Maybe it's because I shoot em in the lungs and not the leg bones.

And I have seen deer with jaws blown off and chunks of face missing. Generally, I think that's from the poor shooters taking shots that they shouldn't. I guided for a time, and I have seen my share of poor shots. Had a guy in my jeep once when the ranch foreman radioed me and told me to shoot all the does I saw because we were 300 does below what we were supposed to take off the ranch. Well, I told the guy in my jeep that we were going to do some serious shooting, starting now. He was the guest, so I let him shoot first. He missed 7 in a row from less than 100 yards in less than an hour. Geez. Handed him my rifle and he got a few. But it was people like that who shouldn't be doing head shots.

But...that's off topic. As for 243 bullets, I'd probably go for Partitions or Accubonds.


I probably killed 200 does in three years with that 243 and PMC loads culling MLD. Never had an issue had some messy deer but all made it to the vitals. After the one issue and then buddy had his issue next year with the 130gr GK I went with partitions and now 80gr TTSX's.

I like the VLD's but as you can see from that antelope I need to be very careful with shot placement with them. My taxi was not happy with me


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5515697 01/02/15 09:11 PM
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Interesting stuff BOBO,
The only time I have ever seen a bullet do something like that was when a kid shot a deer through some brush. Clearly the brush caused expansion before impact on the deer. We finally found the deer and had to finish it off.
Makes me wonder if there were any unseen/unknown (bird, bug, limb, etc) forces at work for the shots mentioned. I think it would be difficult to say for sure.
I like to line up hogs and get two-for-one shots, I did this three times in 2014. The second hog gets blasted similar to what you explain.


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5515754 01/02/15 09:45 PM
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First time I ever saw a bullet completely fragment was with factory Remington Corlokt from a 7mm-08 in 1982. Shoulder shot about 80 yards, created a crater like Bobo described, when it was departing after getting up going straight away one to the neck dropped him but that bullet did not exit and another big crater with the neck being broken jacket was flattened against vertebra. Found out later the bullets being loaded in early 7mm-08 were not as advertised but were instead 139gr Hornady soft points. Started reloading with Partitions and didn't look back.

Have killed several deer with missing muscle sections mostly on shoulders that had survived and killed later in life, no idea what they were shot with but quite a few of those were in a state with a minimum of .243 for bullet diameter for deer hunting.


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5516040 01/03/15 12:21 AM
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Thanks for the detailed examples folks. Something for all of us to take into account I reckon.

Re: 243 bullets [Re: Simple Searcher] #5516087 01/03/15 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: Simple Searcher
Interesting stuff BOBO,
The only time I have ever seen a bullet do something like that was when a kid shot a deer through some brush. Clearly the brush caused expansion before impact on the deer. We finally found the deer and had to finish it off.
Makes me wonder if there were any unseen/unknown (bird, bug, limb, etc) forces at work for the shots mentioned. I think it would be difficult to say for sure.
I like to line up hogs and get two-for-one shots, I did this three times in 2014. The second hog gets blasted similar to what you explain.


I look at it similar to truck brands, they all will fail but some quicker then others if you try to use them outside what they are built for. Most half ton truck can pull 8-10klbs with out issue...for a little while but the tranny, brakes and suspenion weren't designed for that and will not hold up like a 3/4 ton.

Little cup and core bullets fast is trouble on bigger game. My personal opinon is this is where monolithic and partition type bullets excel in small fast calibers.


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5519244 01/04/15 09:43 PM
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130lb buck dropped last night. 243 100gr GK.
in and out massive damage.














Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5520192 01/05/15 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
80gr TTSX.

I stopped using GK after I had one blow up on impact.

80gr TTSX is the perfect pill of the speed of the 243


+1 I concur with Bobo.


This is from a pig that went about 10 feet with my 9 year old nephew driving an 80 grain Barnes TTSX low just behind the leg.

The rifle is an older R700 with 1:10 twist, which would not stabilize 100 grain bullets, so this was the second bullet I tried and have been very happy with the accuracy and terminal performance.

80 grain Barnes TTSX over 45.0 of IMR 4831 with F210.

Through and through wound. Not too much meat torn up either which was nice.

It removed the top of heart as well as the base of the lung.


Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5520335 01/05/15 02:47 AM
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google barnes failures, ya i think not.













Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5520430 01/05/15 03:16 AM
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Anything that penetrates through the central nervous system or heart/lungs will result in lethal terminal performance, whether a bullet, an arrow, a knife, spear, or an icicle. The key is to achieve penetration to the vital point. Lighter and faster bullets need sturdier construction than bullets with more mass, at least in my experience. As stated in my post, my 243 will not stabilize 100 grain bullets, so 85 to 90 grains is the limit. 85 grain Partitions are another option, but the Barnes have worked well so far in the 243. I've killed deer with old vanilla Win soft points, which likely are Sierras, just fine as well, but prefer these in the 243, which was the question. Not all 243's come with twist rates fast enough to stabilize 100 - 115's, particularly older ones (mine is from 1969). If they are working for you, stick with them. Makes no difference to me. I'm just offering my experience, and you can offer yours. There are plenty of other choices that will work as well.

In my 308, Sierra Match Kings are my go to choice fwiw, with Pro Hunters as my next favorites. Gamekings, NBT's and Partitions work too.

Re: 243 bullets [Re: vanguard] #5521258 01/05/15 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: vanguard
google barnes failures, ya i think not.












This is the reason I shy away from mono metal bullets. I have had too many experiences like this with both barnes and hornady GMX both pushing max loads out of a 300 wby or 270 win at less than 100 yards. (disclaimer... I have never tried the TTSX and hear they are better)

I have a 243 win and bought a box of sierra 100 grain prohunters. I have been happy with how they shoot, accuracy has been great. Only shot one deer with it so far, a 135 pound spike buck, it was a neck shot and drt. I have a box of Hornady 100 grain boat tail softpoints on the way I got free from one of hornady's promotions when I bought a set of dies. I will likely give them a try buy may use for paper punching only, never been pleased with a hornady product other than their dies.

When the sierras and hornadies run out it will be fed a diet of 100 grain nosler partitions.


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5521619 01/05/15 08:08 PM
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nothing wrong with pro hunters they are actually a bit tougher than the gameking, the flat base gives them more jacket in the rear. i dont care what anyone says flat base bullets are more accurate than boat tails. all i hand load is flat base bullets im done with boat tails.



Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5643949 03/10/15 01:54 AM
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I know this an older thread. However I've been paying much closer attention to the damage done using the Sierra 85gr HPBT no. 1530. Saturday night I shot a 200 plus pound sow about 80 yards at night. I hit her low just behind the front leg. The bullet shattered one rib and liquefied the lungs. No part of the bullet made it to the opposite side of the ribcage. The big sow only went 4 feet from where I shot her. I haven't made it long range shots to see how well the bullet is holding together lately. All have been under 150 yards with the bullet coming apart into fragments. However it's still killing the pigs pretty good.

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Re: 243 bullets [Re: kmon11] #5644526 03/10/15 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: kmon1
In a 243 the Nosler Partition is hard to beat 65+ years and it is still the standard that premium bullets are compared to for a reason. Want to go higher tech get some Nosler Accubonds.


X 2. Partition. If it ain't broke don fix it. 100 gr NP in .243, 125 gr in 6.5-06, 150 or 180 gr in .30-06and 225 gr in .338 Win


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: vanguard] #5644552 03/10/15 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: vanguard
google barnes failures, ya i think not.












Brilliant!!!! Use an example of a bullet that's up to 100grains bigger and shot into a phone book at 300 yards. Not to mention a mv that's almost 500 ft/s slower.


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Re: 243 bullets [Re: Sirrah243] #5647938 03/12/15 01:07 PM
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Not saying they all do it bobo, but I have had 130's loaded hot out of a 270 win do the same thing at 50 yards shot into a gravel pit wall. Only one I have had not fail to expand was 53 grain 224 diameter in a 223 rem. and I don't use them because I couldn't get consistent pass throughs with them.


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