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Why certain shops push certain scopes #5624310 02/27/15 08:57 PM
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I like my old standard proven name brand scopes, I know they don't have much markup. I know many others have a lower wholesale and room for more profit potential. Yes,I do know the wholesale on said items.

There is a cult following for some of these others just because a "shop" says they are terrific.

Its a little off-putting when the cult or cult leaders have something negative to say about the many times more expensive but proven brands, I hold my tongue because I don't like to insult a person's budget or choice of scope, and all eyes are a little different. I just smile and move on.

One thing that does seem to be very common is how these "lesser" brands are always compared by some reference to "long time proven" or more "expensive" brands. Usually this takes place with the gunshop groupies who hardly work for a living and want to give you advice not knowing anything about your background or expertise. The same folk who would rather spend money on guns than teeth.

Just my take.

Last edited by Treinta-Treinta; 02/27/15 09:10 PM.



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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5624378 02/27/15 09:41 PM
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Which brands do you consider to be lesser brands? It's hard to follow what you are saying without using the brand names. By lesser do you mean brands like Simmons and tasco? Or slightly better like Nikon and redfield? Or are you referring to brands that aren't as well known?


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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5624657 02/27/15 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: Treinta-Treinta
I like my old standard proven name brand scopes, I know they don't have much markup. I know many others have a lower wholesale and room for more profit potential. Yes,I do know the wholesale on said items.

There is a cult following for some of these others just because a "shop" says they are terrific.

Its a little off-putting when the cult or cult leaders have something negative to say about the many times more expensive but proven brands, I hold my tongue because I don't like to insult a person's budget or choice of scope, and all eyes are a little different. I just smile and move on.

One thing that does seem to be very common is how these "lesser" brands are always compared by some reference to "long time proven" or more "expensive" brands. Usually this takes place with the gunshop groupies who hardly work for a living and want to give you advice not knowing anything about your background or expertise. The same folk who would rather spend money on guns than teeth.

Just my take.



Like Super Sniper or Vortex? popcorn

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5624661 02/27/15 11:30 PM
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Maybe ATN or Sightmark?

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5624748 02/28/15 12:05 AM
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If I had to guess, I'd say the "lesser" brand is Vortex, and the old standard is Leupold.

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5624766 02/28/15 12:09 AM
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Only thing that bothers me about the OP is the "rather spend money on guns than teeth" statement. Of COURSE I'd rather spend money on guns than teeth. What's wrong with that?
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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: RiverRider] #5624768 02/28/15 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Only thing that bothers me about the OP is the "rather spend money on guns than teeth" statement. Of COURSE I'd rather spend money on guns than teeth. What's wrong with that?
stir


Can't say I disagree.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Anton Chigurh] #5624772 02/28/15 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Anton Chigurh
If I had to guess, I'd say the "lesser" brand is Vortex, and the old standard is Leupold.


That was kind of my assumption too. But I didn't want to spell it out. I was hoping he would elaborate.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5624894 02/28/15 01:02 AM
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So SS is SWFA house brand. The own the intellectual property on them and are the only sellers in the US. based on their sale prices they are making a HUGE market up on the scopes. Their scopes have been very highly rated/reviewed by a number of people.

Vortex is a relatively new brand as opposed to leupold. They have gotten a lot of good press over the past few years. Leupold did not respond to customers fast enough. For a while time that had Mil Reticles with MOA turrets or limited reticle choices. Once the got more mil/mil and moa/moa they have been making very competitive scopes. However some of their price points leave something to be desired to some. For example a mark 6 3-18 is 2k, with illumination its 4k. A vortex 3-18 is 2200 with illumination.

I see the optics discussion looking more at price to value. The law of diminishing returns says that extra features on the top end are going to cost a lot more. Vortex is filling a great Price to value position.

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5624926 02/28/15 01:12 AM
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I've seen shops come up with ways to try and sell you a certain brand. An example was a shop up in Idaho, which I liked very much...but they pushed Bausch & Laumb scopes to the hilt with a "demonstration" that would convince you it was the finest scope ever built in the entire solar system. I am convinced that was because the profit margin was substantial.

I DID try a B&L Elite 3000. I thought it was a piece of crap.


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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5624952 02/28/15 01:24 AM
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What's your point bud?



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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Cleric] #5625004 02/28/15 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
So SS is SWFA house brand. The own the intellectual property on them and are the only sellers in the US. based on their sale prices they are making a HUGE market up on the scopes. Their scopes have been very highly rated/reviewed by a number of people.

Vortex is a relatively new brand as opposed to leupold. They have gotten a lot of good press over the past few years. Leupold did not respond to customers fast enough. For a while time that had Mil Reticles with MOA turrets or limited reticle choices. Once the got more mil/mil and moa/moa they have been making very competitive scopes. However some of their price points leave something to be desired to some. For example a mark 6 3-18 is 2k, with illumination its 4k. A vortex 3-18 is 2200 with illumination.

I see the optics discussion looking more at price to value. The law of diminishing returns says that extra features on the top end are going to cost a lot more. Vortex is filling a great Price to value position.


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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5625008 02/28/15 01:50 AM
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My secondary point is, a man shouldn't belittle or begrudge another man's choice of scope because of financial gain or any other reason. My main point,if someone doesn't ask for scope advice, don't give it.

No, I'm not going to put a name to the "brand".

Sorry if I offended any folks without teeth. I'd probably offend some folk without a high school education that know more about Second Amendment rights than a Law professor too. smile




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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5625018 02/28/15 01:54 AM
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I own a Tasco, Nikon an Leupold scopes. Mine all enable me to shoot well. The Tasco is just as accurate as the other two. The tasco may not last as long but it has done well for about 18 years. I am sure there are other good ones as well. Once owned a cheap BSA and it did fit the category of you get what you paid for...which was not much in that case.

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Wilhunt] #5625081 02/28/15 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: wilhunt
I own a Tasco, Nikon an Leupold scopes. Mine all enable me to shoot well. The Tasco is just as accurate as the other two. The tasco may not last as long but it has done well for about 18 years. I am sure there are other good ones as well. Once owned a cheap BSA and it did fit the category of you get what you paid for...which was not much in that case.


I've got a tasco world class 3-9 that is atleast 30 years old. Still a good scope that's on a backup hunting rifle.


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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Wilhunt] #5625355 02/28/15 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: wilhunt
I own a Tasco, Nikon an Leupold scopes. Mine all enable me to shoot well. The Tasco is just as accurate as the other two. The tasco may not last as long but it has done well for about 18 years. I am sure there are other good ones as well. Once owned a cheap BSA and it did fit the category of you get what you paid for...which was not much in that case.



If you have an issue with a particular person than take it up with them. This forum is full of people with very differ backgrounds. Some are hardcore tactical shooters, some are hardcore hunters. Those are very different shooting style and preferances. Lots of people post threads looking for ideas. If you post a thread like that you are doing yourself a disservice by not understanding why someone recommends. For example the ffp vs sfp debate has been on here numerous times. There is no right answer. But you need to know why people prefer something and make your own decision.

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5625594 02/28/15 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Treinta-Treinta
I like my old standard proven name brand scopes, I know they don't have much markup. I know many others have a lower wholesale and room for more profit potential. Yes,I do know the wholesale on said items.

There is a cult following for some of these others just because a "shop" says they are terrific.

Its a little off-putting when the cult or cult leaders have something negative to say about the many times more expensive but proven brands, I hold my tongue because I don't like to insult a person's budget or choice of scope, and all eyes are a little different. I just smile and move on.

One thing that does seem to be very common is how these "lesser" brands are always compared by some reference to "long time proven" or more "expensive" brands. Usually this takes place with the gunshop groupies who hardly work for a living and want to give you advice not knowing anything about your background or expertise. The same folk who would rather spend money on guns than teeth.

Just my take.
Originally Posted By: Treinta-Treinta
My secondary point is, a man shouldn't belittle or begrudge another man's choice of scope because of financial gain or any other reason. My main point,if someone doesn't ask for scope advice, don't give it.

No, I'm not going to put a name to the "brand".

Sorry if I offended any folks without teeth. I'd probably offend some folk without a high school education that know more about Second Amendment rights than a Law professor too. smile
Honestly, I don't under stand the point of either of these posts. Unless you name brands, nobody knows what you're talking about or why you're upset.

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Cleric] #5626050 02/28/15 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
Originally Posted By: wilhunt
I own a Tasco, Nikon an Leupold scopes. Mine all enable me to shoot well. The Tasco is just as accurate as the other two. The tasco may not last as long but it has done well for about 18 years. I am sure there are other good ones as well. Once owned a cheap BSA and it did fit the category of you get what you paid for...which was not much in that case.



If you have an issue with a particular person than take it up with them. This forum is full of people with very differ backgrounds. Some are hardcore tactical shooters, some are hardcore hunters. Those are very different shooting style and preferances. Lots of people post threads looking for ideas. If you post a thread like that you are doing yourself a disservice by not understanding why someone recommends. For example the ffp vs sfp debate has been on here numerous times. There is no right answer. But you need to know why people prefer something and make your own decision.

No issue, just my observation on scopes of a different $ value. Have a good day.

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5626249 02/28/15 06:34 PM
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Hey, I'm not upset, Momma has a squeeze box cool

I'm not branding a scope because I'm not looking to start a scope debate. I'm pointing out a subject I feel deserves a wee bit more common courtesy.




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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5626330 02/28/15 07:11 PM
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Quote:
My secondary point is, a man shouldn't belittle or begrudge another man's choice of scope because of financial gain or any other reason. My main point,if someone doesn't ask for scope advice, don't give it.


That really was not at all apparent in any part of the OP statement. Shops "give advice" because people are in their stores SHOPPING. That is the way it works.

Shops tend to push the brands that they have for sale. That is how they make money. That is the way it works.


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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5626402 02/28/15 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Treinta-Treinta
Hey, I'm not upset, Momma has a squeeze box cool

I'm not branding a scope because I'm not looking to start a scope debate. I'm pointing out a subject I feel deserves a wee bit more common courtesy.


So making vague comments is most likely not going to solve the problem. If you feel its a problem i suggest you use the notify feature in the bottom right and notify mods if a post is out of line.

Go start a chevy vs ford vs dodge debate the off topics and watch that escalate..

I have been treated very well by vortex so am loyal. I will defer to the based on my experience. I have been treated poorly by SWFA therefore i tend to shy away from it. Everyone has their preference...

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5626426 02/28/15 08:03 PM
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Try as you may to initiate a brand debate, I'm not going there. cool




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Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5626510 02/28/15 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Treinta-Treinta
Hey, I'm not upset, Momma has a squeeze box cool

I'm not branding a scope because I'm not looking to start a scope debate. I'm pointing out a subject I feel deserves a wee bit more common courtesy.


Try as you may to initiate a brand debate, I'm not going there.



Ok, I'm pretty sure I have no idea what you're talking about, and I doubt I'm alone...

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5626521 02/28/15 08:53 PM
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Vortex comes to mind. It's a fairly new brand that everyone seems to push and pump up. The fact that it is a pretty new brand and soooo many people know how great their warranty work is concerns me. Please don't take offense. I'm not saying they aren't good scopes and I have never owned one. However, I have noticed that when someone asks for a recommendation, there is a often at least one guy that has had to send one in.

I worked for a gun shop awhile I was in college about a decade ago. We sold more $200-400 scopes than all others put together. The mark-ups weren't all that different. We let customers go outside and compare a few in their price range but we all had our preferences. I think whatever salesperson you have pushes whatever they think is good. I also think whatever is the latest and greatest gets pushed.

Re: Why certain shops push certain scopes [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #5626542 02/28/15 09:05 PM
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Sounds like you got frustrated at a gun shop. I've been there, particularly with the "gun shop groupies" as you stated. 'Same mentality as at the bar in a beer joint. "Lounge lizards" is what my dad called 'em. Ijuts.


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