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What would you do... #5543534 01/15/15 02:03 AM
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First lease for my 2 boys and I... My 15 yr old shot a buck, dropped immediately, knee high or so grass. We waited 10-15 minutes just to make sure, about the time we're going to exit the pop up, he picks his head up and looks like he's trying to get up. Doesn't make it up, antlers go back down. This went on 2-3 more times over 15 minutes or so. I decided if he was going to get up, he would have. Got out and made my approach to him coming down a rise. Got within 15-20 ft and he's definitely alive, but not getting up. (Not sure why he couldn't get up, it was a high shot, but at least 6-8 inches below the spine.)

I finished him with 2 rounds from my Sig 9mm, lung (was pretty shaky from the adrenaline) then heart.

It really bothered my 14 yr old for us to have to sit right there and watch him eventually expire. I'll admit, myself a little as well. I didn't want to shot him in the head for the obvious reasons.

What would you do?

Charlie


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Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5543552 01/15/15 02:10 AM
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Charlie, you shoot enough animals and non-immediate kills will and do happen. I would explain this to your sons, life and hunting is not always perfect. As for finishing off the animal, I usually do this with a close end neck shot from the rifle.

Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5543588 01/15/15 02:23 AM
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The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Nature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


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Re: What would you do... [Re: Sneaky] #5543612 01/15/15 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Mature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


Wow Sneaky, didn't know you had it in you. Very poetic and insightful...

Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5543683 01/15/15 02:57 AM
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Thanks DQ.


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Re: What would you do... [Re: Sneaky] #5543705 01/15/15 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Mature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


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Re: What would you do... [Re: Sneaky] #5543712 01/15/15 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Mature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


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I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5543727 01/15/15 03:10 AM
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Well said Sneaky.

When an animal tries getting up after going down to a shot, especially one that tries more than once or if a young hunter is involved put more lead in it. Have tracked too many for those that observe after a shot rather than being ready for a second shot. Tracking dogs get called for these all too often, sometimes recovery is made sometimes not.

Even though the death of a majestic animal was longer than we hunters like in this case, it was still a lot quicker than usually happens for prey animals in nature. Nature is beautiful but can sure be cruel to the creatures in it at times.

Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5543949 01/15/15 05:06 AM
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I appreciate the responses. I guess what I was really looking for was how to take him out essentially standing next to him. Rifle shot seemed too much (meat/head damage) and 9mm felt a bit inadequate compared to a rifle shot. We really couldn't see him unless he moved his antlers. Had he actually stood up, my son had is 30.06 and I had my AR-10 on him. He might have taken a step, but he wouldn't have taken two. smile

DQ, so at the base of the head/neck are base of the neck/chest area?

Charlie


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Re: What would you do... [Re: Sneaky] #5544124 01/15/15 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Nature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


Nice.


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If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
Re: What would you do... [Re: DQ Kid] #5544131 01/15/15 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: DQ Kid
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Mature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


Wow Sneaky, didn't know you had it in you. Very poetic and insightful...


Thanks Sneaky. This sums up life in general, not just hunting. Very well said.

Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5544132 01/15/15 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: CharlieCTx
I appreciate the responses. I guess what I was really looking for was how to take him out essentially standing next to him. Rifle shot seemed too much (meat/head damage) and 9mm felt a bit inadequate compared to a rifle shot. We really couldn't see him unless he moved his antlers. Had he actually stood up, my son had is 30.06 and I had my AR-10 on him. He might have taken a step, but he wouldn't have taken two. smile

DQ, so at the base of the head/neck are base of the neck/chest area?

Charlie


I put it middle of neck, mid neck. May be different if going to get a mount but this is where I finish them.

Re: What would you do... [Re: Sneaky] #5544193 01/15/15 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Nature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.
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Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5544220 01/15/15 01:59 PM
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I would tell my son how proud of him I was for his feelings on having to watch the deer struggle for life. I think this is what separates animal killers from hunters. It also makes us all realize our own mortality, which as a teen-ager, this is a good thing. Death, and more importantly killing an animal is not something to be taken lightly. I would also remind him that if the deer were killed by a mountain lion or some other predator that it might have suffered just as long and just as much. Taking an animal's life requires some fore thought and should not be taken lightly. Explain to him that anytime you take a deer, you feel the exhiliration of accomplishment, but you also feel the sadness of having removed one of God' creatures from this earth forever. This is a great teaching moment and can go in many different directions.


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Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5544329 01/15/15 02:49 PM
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It was a good teachable moment and I made a good oppty. out of it. We covered the full spectrum... 14 yr old was crying, I was wishing he would have expired before we got there and the 15 yr old had his knife out ready to start cleaning! smile

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Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5544368 01/15/15 03:05 PM
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Charlie, if all else fails, just informatively describe to them how a slaugtherhouse works and they may feel a bit better about an expiring deer.

Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5544405 01/15/15 03:24 PM
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I got the opportunity to do this with a 26 year old woman... my wife. She pulled her shot a little and instead of having a shoulder shot she had a low neck hit. Deer thrashed around for about 10 seconds but was obvious it wasn't going anywhere. There was a LARGE amount of blood. She was upset about it since her other deer and hogs had either fell drt or ran off a short ways and died out of site with no huge pools of blood.

Just reassure them what they did was right and sometimes the world isn't a perfect place... and more range time was in order for us.


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Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5544451 01/15/15 03:44 PM
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Agreed with what is said above. When you have to finish one up close you get a strong sense of the being directly responsible for bringing death to that animal. It is a primal and raw feeling, but as a hunter, it is part of the game. As Sneaky put it so well, I would explain to your boys that this is part of the "circle of life." I would also explain that dying naturally for a deer is not a peaceful and noble experience like so many people imagine it to be. Coyotes do not take time to ensure the deer is out of it's misery.

Next time, take a finishing shot with the rifle when he raises his head up. Or, put one at the base of the ear with your 9mm.


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Re: What would you do... [Re: DQ Kid] #5544479 01/15/15 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: DQ Kid
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Mature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


Wow Sneaky, didn't know you had it in you. Very poetic and insightful...

Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5544488 01/15/15 04:03 PM
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A 9mm to the heart/lungs was the perfect answer to this. Minimal damage to meat, clean(er) kill.

Better to use the home defense rounds for their expansion properties as opposed to fmj.

IMO you did the right thing up

Re: What would you do... [Re: talkturkey] #5544728 01/15/15 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: talkturkey
Originally Posted By: DQ Kid
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Mature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


Wow Sneaky, didn't know you had it in you. Very poetic and insightful...


Thanks Sneaky. This sums up life in general, not just hunting. Very well said.
x2 Wow. Powerful stuff.

Re: What would you do... [Re: TxAg] #5544930 01/15/15 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: TxAg
Agreed with what is said above. When you have to finish one up close you get a strong sense of the being directly responsible for bringing death to that animal. It is a primal and raw feeling, but as a hunter, it is part of the game. As Sneaky put it so well, I would explain to your boys that this is part of the "circle of life." I would also explain that dying naturally for a deer is not a peaceful and noble experience like so many people imagine it to be. Coyotes do not take time to ensure the deer is out of it's misery.

Next time, take a finishing shot with the rifle when he raises his head up. Or, put one at the base of the ear with your 9mm.

Agree, I think you and Sneaky are spot on

Re: What would you do... [Re: Sneaky] #5545412 01/15/15 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
The bullet hit close enough to the spine to temporarily paralyze him. I've seen them lay there, and I've seen them take off. First thing I would have done is shoot him as soon as I saw him trying to get back up.

Then I would explain that sometimes that's just how it goes. Mother Nature is no fairy tale, and sometimes you have to get your hands dirty if you want to partake. Some people choose to wash their hands of it all and let others do the dirty work. Those people live in a dull, cold world of concrete and steel. They've abandoned their roots, along with reality, to one degree or another. Those of us still connected to the earth and her intricate ways sometimes have to watch her beautiful animals die. It seems ironic to appreciate its beauty in one breath and destroy it in another, but in doing so, more beauty is revealed and a much larger picture realized. It's difficult to understand, even as a partaker.


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Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5545438 01/15/15 11:21 PM
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I have had this happen numerous times while guiding. I have a long bladed knife that I insert under the front leg into the rib cage and twist it around. Cuts the heart liver and such. No blood and looks humane. Touch the eye and when it no longer blinks the animal is dead.

Re: What would you do... [Re: CharlieCTx] #5545554 01/16/15 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: CharlieCTx
It was a good teachable moment and I made a good oppty. out of it. We covered the full spectrum... 14 yr old was crying, I was wishing he would have expired before we got there and the 15 yr old had his knife out ready to start cleaning! smile

Charlie


I'm in no way throwing stones, but that teachable moment included the value of being an accurate and consistent marksman. You should have no problem getting him to make trips to the range to practice and work at overcoming any leftover ill feelings from the event. It will likely leave a life-long impression on him as to why practice is so important. And that in itself is a very good thing.


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