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Mar 25th, 2012
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Pointing #5485504 12/18/14 03:52 PM
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kpaw Offline OP
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I have a DD, she is doing great finding quail, but she has yet to stop and point. Is this something that will automatically happen one day? I have been working on Whoa at home in the yard, but I don't want to push her in the field, and she is not steady on it yet? Advice? She is 9 Months old. She has flash pointed birds twice, she also holds point on roost sites, but not on live birds. I'm new to this and just want to do things correctly.

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5485539 12/18/14 04:07 PM
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At 9 mo. you can expect a few wrecks but it sounds to me like you need to work harder on the whoa training and then reinforce it. The longer you let her get away with busting birds the harder it will be to correct it. She needs to know it is her job to find the birds but it is your job to flush them.

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5485666 12/18/14 04:54 PM
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Just curious what whoa training will do if she doesn't point at all?

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5485703 12/18/14 05:12 PM
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I should also say, I have only had her on wild birds in deep south Texas, we still have not even had a hard frost, I don't know if that should make a difference in sent.

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5485712 12/18/14 05:17 PM
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Pointing should be instinct on any upland bird. You just teach how long they hold it. 9 months seems old for not instinctually pointing. I'm no expert though

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5485762 12/18/14 05:47 PM
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I would get you some pigeons, or quail and put her on a check cord. If she doesn't stop on first scent, say nothing, and walk her away. I plant 3 or 4 different spots. That way I can keep working the field with the pup. If you know someone with a bird launcher, it can help speed up the process. Same thing, if she doesn't stop on first scent, launch the bird, and walk her away.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5485772 12/18/14 05:51 PM
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Make sure you don't shoot any birds that she busts. If you do your reinforcing her acting like a flusher, instead of a pointer.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5485979 12/18/14 07:55 PM
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You have already told us she likes to hunt. That is about the only thing that you can't teach a dog. It is hard to train a dog on wild birds. My advise is to get her whoa broke in the yard first and the when she has whoa down and will stop and stand on command then go get a few pigeons and work her on them. The stopping and standing is the point. Some dogs have a lot moor class on point than others but as long as you know what she is doing that is what counts.

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5485986 12/18/14 08:00 PM
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Kpaw - Call your breeder.

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5486008 12/18/14 08:17 PM
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9 months is just a pup and is not old enough to worry about not pointing. This is not a pointer/ setter. Yes many dogs it just clicks and they start pointing, like with people they develop at different rates. Be happy with being able to work your dogs on wild birds, I would continue the rest of the season as you are and worry about stopping to point in the off season, that's what it's for. I bet by then it's no longer a problem.


Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Pointing [Re: changedmyname] #5486115 12/18/14 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: iliketohunt
Just curious what whoa training will do if she doesn't point at all?


Whoa will only help them stay pointed. Here's what we did with a young setter that was not yet pointing. We put out a bird for an older broke dog and let it point the bird. We brought the young setter in on a CC and stopped her. Next we picked her up and carried her up to the scent cone and stopped her again. I've tried the same thing with pups that were not yet pointing coveys. It worked for me.

I'd rather start with one which is pointing at a young age, but you have to take what you get, or at least I do.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5486241 12/18/14 10:28 PM
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Running young dogs on wild birds, its tough to control the training.
Don't get me wrong, I will still do it. I just go into the field knowing, they are going to bust and chase some coveys. As long as I don't encourage it by shooting birds over them, they will figure it out over time. This in no way means that I don't work on training away from the wild birds. Here is a video by a pro, on how I start my young dogs. Its just a simple stop until released. I keep building on it until I can walk away from the dog. Then walk back to them for the release. Then I use the same approach with whoa training on birds. Once the dog stops, it can not move until released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC2Q4fBYDcQ



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5486390 12/18/14 11:58 PM
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How far in deep South TX are you? I live in Harlingen and have a launcher if you wan to borrow it. I know where you can get pigeons which is what i would use. I wouldnt take a chance of her catching a pen raised quail. I have only trained 2 dogs and helped with another but they all turned out to be good gun dogs, and improving constantly.


Re: Pointing [Re: bill oxner] #5488229 12/20/14 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Originally Posted By: iliketohunt
Just curious what whoa training will do if she doesn't point at all?


Whoa will only help them stay pointed. Here's what we did with a young setter that was not yet pointing. We put out a bird for an older broke dog and let it point the bird. We brought the young setter in on a CC and stopped her. Next we picked her up and carried her up to the scent cone and stopped her again. I've tried the same thing with pups that were not yet pointing coveys. It worked for me.

I'd rather start with one which is pointing at a young age, but you have to take what you get, or at least I do.

You can do it in the field with wild birds, but I agree with all the replies. It's better to set it up with pen raised birds or pigeons.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


[Linked Image]




Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5492498 12/22/14 02:54 PM
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Thanks everyone, sorry for the slow reply, was out guiding deer hunts all weekend. I will start putting this all together and working more with her over the xmas break. Ill post an update once I have some progress.

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5495694 12/23/14 08:19 PM
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The best training tool for a pointing breed is a remote launcher along with enforcing the whoa command. Pointers are smart but they still have to learn that they can't catch birds. They've been bred for centuries to point. You have to smarten your dog up to know the key to getting birds is he has to point them and it's pointless pardon the pun to try to catch them. So get out in a field with a launcher and some pigeons. Let your dog run through the field the minute he gets close to the launcher send the bird. If he points then creeps in immediately send the bird. Pretty soon he gets the idea that there has to be a better way. Don't use pen raised birds use wild caught pigeons that can fly well as you don't want to risk your dog actually catching the bird.

Here's a pretty good video on the concept. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqT0SX57pmA

Last edited by bc993; 12/23/14 08:46 PM.
Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5496348 12/24/14 02:17 AM
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MS 1454 has it right. I had a slow learner that took 2 seasons to figure it out. She is a bird finding fool right now. She will point and hold birds up to 30 minutes until I can get there. Keep running pup on wild birds and keep your mouth shut except for praise. Wild birds will bring out the pups natural desires to point and find birds

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5496987 12/24/14 01:36 PM
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It really does depend on the pup. Cracker was steady after 9 flushes of johnny house oqail. My first pointer took 3 years and hundreds of wild birds.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Pointing [Re: bill oxner] #5498121 12/24/14 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
It really does depend on the pup. Cracker was steady after 9 flushes of johnny house oqail. My first pointer took 3 years and hundreds of wild birds.

2X

June pointed the first bird she ever scented.
Lucy was so bad, she would even chase airplanes.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5500717 12/26/14 07:47 PM
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Many frown on this but it worked for me. If pup points a bird at all then breaks shoot a bird for pup. This teaches pup that the both of you are a team and this is what your after. Pup will be holding birds ater that

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5521129 01/05/15 04:12 PM
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Thanks everyone, I worked her on a few pigeons over xmas, she is now pointing and holding very well. We found 10 coveys in 1.5 hours, she only busted one. I shot 4 birds for her and missed one. I did not shoot if she crept up, which only happened on 1 covey. A few of the other coveys flushed before I could get there, but she did not bust them or move, they just got nervous and flushed before I could get there. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Re: Pointing [Re: kpaw] #5521200 01/05/15 04:53 PM
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Wow that's awesome


Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

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