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Pros and cons of professional training #5363060 10/16/14 05:00 AM
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Costa333 Offline OP
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I have a young lab and was wondering if there were any real cons to sending him off to a good trainer other than the obvious cost. Anyone had bad experiences? Do they listen to you as well as the trainer after? Any help or input would help.

Thanks & God bless

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5363225 10/16/14 12:46 PM
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I am obviously biased but this is the analogy that I give people.

I am not a biulder. I could build a structure with walls and a roof but it is going to look like hell and take me forever. So, to keep my wife off my butt and rain off my head I'm going to hire someone that knows how to do the job efficiently.

Dog training is a service just like anything else. Don't take it personally if you don't have the time, equipment, knowledge, or grounds to efficiently train your dog. That is why pros exist.


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Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5363244 10/16/14 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Costa333
I have a young lab and was wondering if there were any real cons to sending him off to a good trainer other than the obvious cost. Anyone had bad experiences? Do they listen to you as well as the trainer after? Any help or input would help.

Thanks & God bless


Unless you have the time to commit to training the pup yourself, it is easier to have a pro do it for you. There are several on this website who would do you a good job. There are several out there who won't.
It all depends on what you want out of your pup and the time/money you have to spend getting it to that point. One who is well trained is a lot of fun to be around, as well as hunt with.
They will always listen-just might not always obey.

Robby

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5363263 10/16/14 01:13 PM
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Thanks for yalls help. The hard part for me is going to have him be away while he is in training, but I guess thats part of it. And trying to convince the wife that its a good idea to send him off too. She is pretty attached to him.

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5363281 10/16/14 01:24 PM
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How long does basic training typically take?Would it be ok to send the dog off for 1 month,or is that just a waste of time?



Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5363408 10/16/14 02:42 PM
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Most pros want the dog for three months. Their reputation is on the line. There are puppy programs that exist but they will come home before any formal training takes place.

Finding the right pro takes a commitment from you. Be very up front about your expectation and listen to the trainer. There is a chance your dog can't do everything you want him to and there is an equal chance he can exceed your expectations.

Even if you pup is gone for three to six months that is a very short time over his life span and leaves plenty of time for you and your wife to enjoy the dog.

Hiring a pro isn't for everyone just like training your own dog isn't for everyone. Make the best decision you can.

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5363559 10/16/14 03:52 PM
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I have nothing negative to say about having my dog professionally trained.

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: maximumintensityretriever] #5364208 10/16/14 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: maximumintensityretriever
I am obviously biased but this is the analogy that I give people.

I am not a biulder. I could build a structure with walls and a roof but it is going to look like hell and take me forever. So, to keep my wife off my butt and rain off my head I'm going to hire someone t knows how to do the job efficiently.

Dog training is a service just like anything else. Don't take it personally if you don't have the time, equipment, knowledge, or grounds to efficiently train your dog. That is why pros exist.


I agree with this 100% except that to become a builder you have have built that first house. That first house will come with problems. You learn from it, find mentors to help you, and gather more resources for the next one. And same for each house after that. You become a better builder with each one. I'm on my 9th one I think. Hunting dog that is.

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5364631 10/17/14 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: Costa333
I have a young lab and was wondering if there were any real cons to sending him off to a good trainer other than the obvious cost. Anyone had bad experiences? Do they listen to you as well as the trainer after? Any help or input would help.

Thanks & God bless


You dont get to really know the dog. Going through the training will teach you a lot about your self and your dog, both pluses and minuses.

Some dogs cannot go through some trainers cookie training methods. So for example, FF. A trainer might have one or two ways to go through the process. Your dog may not work well with the methods the trainer uses.

I really dont see how someone can have the money for guns, leases, travel expenses, time yet not have the time or money to train their own dog. It really isn't that difficult or hard to have the resources to get it done correctly.


Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5365006 10/17/14 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Costa333
Thanks for yalls help. The hard part for me is going to have him be away while he is in training, but I guess thats part of it. And trying to convince the wife that its a good idea to send him off too. She is pretty attached to him.


The time away for training is relatively insignificant considering the years of enjoyment you will get from a well trained dog. 3-6 months of training over the lifetime of the dog is such short time.

Remember you should go out and work with the trainer with your dog. Ask to work other dogs on they're truck. The more practice you get the better. Also you maybe able to take your dog home for a few weekends.

Yes you can train your own dog. It's all about resources.

Angie


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Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5366462 10/18/14 03:24 AM
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Even though I train my own dogs I still go throw birds for pros and need help some times. It's all what type of time an money you have.

I just gat a 3 year old clm two weeks ago. He already listens to me very well.

Last edited by Lhbrittany23; 10/18/14 03:25 AM.
Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5366922 10/18/14 04:36 PM
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I like doing it myself .I am with my gal 24\7 so its training all the time .Find you a good dog training book and stick with it. I've done 3 dogs and been real pleased . We hunt probable more than the average hunter also

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5367655 10/19/14 03:35 AM
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I bought my dog through Wildrose Kennels and went through their handler training. Great experience! My dog is with me almost 24/7. He is doing great. He just turned 1 and had a good dove season. He does not cast great yet but is improving daily. He is fantastic at marks and memories. He totally trusts me on blinds. No E collars, force fetch, or extreme treatment. Buy Mikes book, go to the handler training and enjoy. If you can't work your dog daily, send it to a trainer.


Enjoy hunting with family and friends!
Take your bow and a quiver full of arrows, and go out into the open country to hunt some wild game for me.
Gen 27:3

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5368202 10/19/14 05:08 PM
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a lot of guys who get their first decent hunting dog usually find out quickly that really training a dog to a superior level of performance is very time consuming. Not to mention the learning curve. Ever hear how most dog owners talk about ruining their first dog?
A small percentage of people can train their own dog to a pro level. They are extremely few.
Although the cost would in most cases scare a lot of people off, what Pastor Terry did is very likely the best option for most people. Get a well bred dog from a reputable source and let them do the training. These outfits have a stake in their reputation. In the long run it really is money well spent, and you will be much happier with the results.
I suggest going to a field event, such as AKC or HRC, there are plenty this time of year and really closely watch the dogs in all classes. Start with the pups and then the started and on up to the pro handled dogs. You will probably be amazed at what your Block head pup is capable of.
You will learn quickly what a well trained dog is capable of. Talk to owners and trainers, and you will start to hear names repeated. Most of these folks are full of advice.
Point is you will gain perspective.


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Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5368861 10/20/14 12:41 AM
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Thanks for everyone's advice. I did the best I could with my pup but it was getting to the point where I couldn't spend the time I needed and didn't know enough to get him where he needs to be. I dropped him off this morning to the trainer. Can't wait to see how far he has taken him when I get him home.

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5370144 10/20/14 07:04 PM
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I took mine my pup to a trainer for the basics. I knew nothing other than what I had read. My problem is that I travel some with work and I did knew that you have to be consistently work with a pup during the basics. I did work with the trainer on several occasions and my pup came home for a few days during the three months. After the basics are covered I think you can continue to train you pup in advanced skills. It just might go a little slower. You will need to work with them anyways to keep their skill up. Even though I have a little more experience now I am still taking my new pup to my trainer to cover the basics. My trainer is just better at it and it will go much quicker than I could do it.

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5372247 10/21/14 10:13 PM
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Unfortunately, I am on the other side of the spectrum as my experiences have not worked out very well. In the first case I had a dog that was fairly soft who would go out and retrieve a bumper with some enthusiasm, but not much intensity. I took him to a trainer and told him I was not sure if the dog would make, so to evaluate him for 4-6 weeks and if he was not going to make it, let me know and I'd come get him. He assured me he was going to be fine as I was not interested in a dog that could do 100 yd blinds, just quiet in the blind who would fetch reasonably well. He kept the dog for four months and when I went to pick him up I went through his instructions for how to take him on his first hunt. I followed his instructions to a T, waited on and dropped an easy retrieve, looked around to send my dog and saw that he had crawled into the bushes. I coaxed him out, but to no avail, he was not going in the water. He is now a fine, very expensive carpet ornament. The second I took to a trainer who called me the next day and told me my dog had gotten out of the kennel, never to be seen again. While I am sure there are good trainers out there, I am equally sure I would be forced to sleep in the barn if my family knew I was even thinking about taking a dog to one. I have trained my own dogs to SH in years past, so I am biting the bullet and making the time to make my own dog. Not saying this is typical, but it is my true experience.
P.S. I chip all dogs now.
P.S.S. A pro trainer has expertise and knowledge that you or I may not have, but do not think they are going to spend more than 10-15 minutes a day working with your dog. Depending on what you want, you can get adequate results with the same amount of time. Find a training program you like in a book or video series and follow it.

Last edited by TexasBB; 10/21/14 10:17 PM.
Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: TexasBB] #5372350 10/21/14 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: TexasBB
Unfortunately, I am on the other side of the spectrum as my experiences have not worked out very well. In the first case I had a dog that was fairly soft who would go out and retrieve a bumper with some enthusiasm, but not much intensity. I took him to a trainer and told him I was not sure if the dog would make, so to evaluate him for 4-6 weeks and if he was not going to make it, let me know and I'd come get him. He assured me he was going to be fine as I was not interested in a dog that could do 100 yd blinds, just quiet in the blind who would fetch reasonably well. He kept the dog for four months and when I went to pick him up I went through his instructions for how to take him on his first hunt. I followed his instructions to a T, waited on and dropped an easy retrieve, looked around to send my dog and saw that he had crawled into the bushes. I coaxed him out, but to no avail, he was not going in the water. He is now a fine, very expensive carpet ornament. The second I took to a trainer who called me the next day and told me my dog had gotten out of the kennel, never to be seen again. While I am sure there are good trainers out there, I am equally sure I would be forced to sleep in the barn if my family knew I was even thinking about taking a dog to one. I have trained my own dogs to SH in years past, so I am biting the bullet and making the time to make my own dog. Not saying this is typical, but it is my true experience.
P.S. I chip all dogs now.
P.S.S. A pro trainer has expertise and knowledge that you or I may not have, but do not think they are going to spend more than 10-15 minutes a day working with your dog. Depending on what you want, you can get adequate results with the same amount of time. Find a training program you like in a book or video series and follow it.


This is atypical and sounds like you did not do your homework on the trainer or at the very least did not go and work with the trainer and your dog a few times during the time he had him. We spent 8 hours with my dog and the trainer the day we picked him up doing hunt test stuff, simulated hunt, obedience, etc. Killed birds and everything. Why did you leave without seeing for yourself what the dog had learned?

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: changedmyname] #5372499 10/22/14 12:17 AM
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Been training my own for 44 years (14 at the time of my first one). All I trained was Pointers. Wild birds back then were my training partners. grin When the bird population got low in the mid 90's I went to a field trial and did that for about 6 years and gas got to high and I had won National dog of the year in NBHA.

Only ever force fetched one dog and he came out great. I force fetched him because he was a trial dog and I couldn't take the chance he would refuse a retrieve in a big trial. The key is working them in repetitiously for about 15 minutes at a time. I never had more than 4 dogs so I could spend an hour in the morning and an hour at night and work them all. Just over and over drilling the same thing. I don't know about Labs, Vizslas, spaniels, any of the German lines but they are all dogs and I bet the repetition is the key in any dog. I love to see when a dog gets it that I raised from a pup. Nobody is going to love your dog like you will. Keep that in mind.

Now there are good trainers out there and I know several. I have even taken my dogs to them to tune up for runs in big trials. But never a meat hunting dog. I say to each his own.


Bobby Barnett

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5386546 10/29/14 03:09 PM
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Update
He has been there a little over a week and I can see great improvements. He not only listened to the trainer but me as well, He started him back over on obedience. I think next he will move to force fetch but I am not really sure. I cant wait to get him back but it seems like it will be well worth the money just because he is getting worked much more than I would have been able to.

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5386681 10/29/14 03:59 PM
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Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5387157 10/29/14 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: Costa333
Update
He has been there a little over a week and I can see great improvements. He not only listened to the trainer but me as well, He started him back over on obedience. I think next he will move to force fetch but I am not really sure. I cant wait to get him back but it seems like it will be well worth the money just because he is getting worked much more than I would have been able to.
Perfect!


Bobby Barnett

Re: Pros and cons of professional training [Re: Costa333] #5388199 10/30/14 06:41 AM
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I will say it is worth it. I just got my pup back yesterday for a short stay while the trainer is at the SRS. He is doing awesome. I was in the camp of I would train my own dogs - which I did my first one. But when I did my first one, I didn't travel for work, didn't have a wife that traveled for work, didn't have a 3 yr old and wasn't going to school for my Masters. I learned that very quick with my second dog and went with a trainer that came highly recommended from a trusted friend who I have hunted over his dog quite a bit. So that being said, if you have the time, money, resources and discipline to do it, than it can be done but best to be left to a professional.

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