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Spaying my puppy? #5347534 10/08/14 02:14 AM
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From the beginning my wife and I were certain we wanted to have our dog spayed. She is almost 5 months old and after speaking with our Vet it was recommended we do it while she is young. We were talking tonight about scheduling it within the next few weeks and I realized I'm getting cold feet.

My concerns are:

Can this procedure change her personality?
Can it affect her drive to hunt?
I just have a fear that it will negatively affect her.
My other reasons are selfish I suppose.. While I have no interest or ambition in breeding her now, it's hard to say how I'll feel about it in the coming years.

Any thoughts? Experience?

.


"I wanna go fast" -Ricky Bobby

"Mind bottling isn't it?" -Chazz Michael Michaels

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Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5347684 10/08/14 03:09 AM
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I spayed my viszla pup when she was just shy of 6 months old, that was 2.5 yrs ago and she still loves to hunt and has drive like none other....she is currently running aroud outside with my new viszla pup of 5 months who is getting spayed next monday. I don't think it will cause any issues with what you are concerned about, other than the lack of ability to breed in the future.

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5347897 10/08/14 11:12 AM
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I spayed mine. I didn't notice any changes in her at all. I waited until she was more than 2 years old so I saw her as an adult before and after spaying and there was no difference.


Now if you have never experienced a dog in heat before, you will want to spay her after you see that.

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: stinkbelly] #5347925 10/08/14 11:38 AM
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And it's the responsible thing to do.

Dogs are of very low moral character. When in heat, even a champion pure-bred bitch will escape and find the ugliest, most worthless male in the county to breed with. Now you have a litter of mongrel pups to find homes for.

And it's well established that spaying--or neutering--your gun dog won't affect its performance in the field.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: dawaba] #5347941 10/08/14 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: dawaba
And it's the responsible thing to do.

Dogs are of very low moral character. When in heat, even a champion pure-bred bitch will escape and find the ugliest, most worthless male in the county to breed with. Now you have a litter of mongrel pups to find homes for.

And it's well established that spaying--or neutering--your gun dog won't affect its performance in the field.

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: dawaba] #5347965 10/08/14 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: dawaba
And it's the responsible thing to do.

Dogs are of very low moral character. When in heat, even a champion pure-bred bitch will escape and find the ugliest, most worthless male in the county to breed with. Now you have a litter of mongrel pups to find homes for.

And it's well established that spaying--or neutering--your gun dog won't affect its performance in the field.


I have two four year old intact females, that have never escaped to breed with a mutt.
I don't think I'm just lucky, I take precautions.
Do your own research and decide for yourself.
Here's a study from UC Davis.
http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: kindall] #5347970 10/08/14 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: kindall
Originally Posted By: dawaba
And it's the responsible thing to do.

Dogs are of very low moral character. When in heat, even a champion pure-bred bitch will escape and find the ugliest, most worthless male in the county to breed with. Now you have a litter of mongrel pups to find homes for.

And it's well established that spaying--or neutering--your gun dog won't affect its performance in the field.


I have two four year old intact females, that have never escaped to breed with a mutt.
I don't think I'm just lucky, I take precautions.
Do your own research and decide for yourself.
Here's a study from UC Davis.
http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498


This


Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348003 10/08/14 12:49 PM
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Inside or outside dog? Breed?

Have you ever seen dog panties? I have.

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348401 10/08/14 03:39 PM
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Thanks for all the input everyone! She is an inside dog, GSP.

After posting this thread last night I sat up late doing research on the topic. Frankly, some of what I read about spaying/neutering young dogs scared the crap out of me. Like that link that Kindall provided, a lot of studies points toward cancer and joint problems. It could just be coincidence that some of the animals affected were spayed/neutered but the percentages were too high to ignore.

Irregardless of personality changes and whether or not she can reproduce, I think we are going to wait simply based on possible health related coincidences. For some reason I always thought that spaying/neutering increased the chances of a healthier life but some of these studies indicate the exact opposite.

I'm not at all looking forward to dog panties, but for at least the first couple of years I'm looking to stock up.

.


"I wanna go fast" -Ricky Bobby

"Mind bottling isn't it?" -Chazz Michael Michaels

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Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348547 10/08/14 04:45 PM
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You made the right decision for you. You can always spay later, but you can't un-spay.

My old vet told me that each heat cycle will increase the chance of breast cancer in the dog. I never looked into it to see if there were facts behind that.

As for the dog panties. I got two pairs that matched the dogs fur. That is a bad idea. I sent her outside several times with them on. She would either shred them or pee in them. Get day glow orange panties.

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348575 10/08/14 05:02 PM
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Our lab turned 4 months old yesterday and we had her spayed yesterday. I did not want to deal with a dog in heat, ever.

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348594 10/08/14 05:14 PM
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I had mine done for the same reasons iliketohunt did...not only did I not want to deal with heat but I don't want to deal with puppies either.

Having said that we have 2 and they both are spayed...I'm dealing with urine leakeage with one and all indications point to spaying early. We are still not 100% fixed but it is something we are working on. It's miserable for both her and us. Medicine is helping a bunch but not cured it...we are keeping a close eye on it. I personally would wait at least for a cycle or two with the next one to help lower the odds of dealing with this.

I do agree with dawaba though...as a pet owner who doesn't want to have puppies it is the responsible thing to do.


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: changedmyname] #5348641 10/08/14 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: iliketohunt
Our lab turned 4 months old yesterday and we had her spayed yesterday. I did not want to deal with a dog in heat, ever.


I'm sure you already know Angie's thoughts on early spaying.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: kindall] #5348709 10/08/14 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: kindall
Originally Posted By: iliketohunt
Our lab turned 4 months old yesterday and we had her spayed yesterday. I did not want to deal with a dog in heat, ever.


I'm sure you already know Angie's thoughts on early spaying.


No, never talked to her about it.

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: dawaba] #5348797 10/08/14 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: dawaba
And it's the responsible thing to do.

Dogs are of very low moral character. When in heat, even a champion pure-bred bitch will escape and find the ugliest, most worthless male in the county to breed with. Now you have a litter of mongrel pups to find homes for.

And it's well established that spaying--or neutering--your gun dog won't affect its performance in the field.


I'd go with what the vet said, and Dawaba just happens to be a vet.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348846 10/08/14 07:28 PM
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I'll go with veterinary colleges that do actual research.
No offence Dawaba, I'm sure you have seen a lot in your days of being a vet.
If I could not provide a safe place for my females while in heat, they would probably be spayed too. But then again I probably would have not bought females, if going through a few heat cycles was going to be a problem.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348903 10/08/14 07:57 PM
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Dang such animosity because someone else wants to spay THEIR pup....

Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348947 10/08/14 08:24 PM
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Not at all.
Do your own research and decide for yourself, was in my first post on the subject.
What's good for one owner, is not for another.
Just thought someone asking the question, would like to know some of the pros and cons before moving forward.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348957 10/08/14 08:31 PM
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http://www.akcchf.org/research/funded-research/1488.html


"With 2,018 cases for Labrador Retrievers, analyses resulted in more frequent statistical significance, profiling an impact of neutering, particularly on musculoskeletal disorders. Hip dysplasia was significantly increased in both sexes and elbow dysplasia in males. The study involving a differentiation between neutering done at 1 year of age or sooner (early), and that done after 1 year (late), in Goldens was very telling. When all three musculoskeletal disorders were combined to determine the risk of an early neutered dog acquiring at least one of these disorders, there was a risk of about 25% in males and 20% in females, compared to a 5-6% risk in intact dogs."


Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348961 10/08/14 08:33 PM
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Related to Vizsla research shared by George Noren.

---------------

A brief synopsis of the significant findings in the analysis of Mast Cell Cancer occurrence in the Vizsla.

Mast Cell Cancer occurrence is significantly higher in the spay / neuter Vizsla when compared to the non spay/ neuter Vizsla.

The hazard of having Mast Cell cancer increased by 79.5% when the Vizsla was spayed or neutered compared to those dogs who were not altered

Mast Cell Cancer when it occurs in the non-altered Vizsla does so at a significantly later age than it does in the altered Vizsla.

The estimated hazard of Mast Cell cancer increased by 103.5% when spayed or neutered at or before 6 months of age. The increase was 83.9% when the Vizsla was altered at age one or later.

Controls were done for gender and other age of spayed or neutered categories.

All of the separate analyses revealed that there was no difference between male and female.

i.e. Mast Cell Cancer in the unaltered Vizsla ( Male vs. Female ) etc.- findings are not gender specific”.



Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5348965 10/08/14 08:36 PM
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What's the original chance of getting mast cell cancer because the percentage increase means nothing without knowing that?

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Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: stinkbelly] #5349105 10/08/14 09:50 PM
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WOW! I just logged back on to the THF and see that this simple question has gone viral. Just to clarify, I said in my earlier post ONLY that spay and neuter:

1. Is the responsible thing to do. I'm no bleeding heart, but just try to imagine the number of unwanted pets that are euthanized daily.

2. Will not affect a gun dog's performance in the field.

I never weighed in on, nor stated any position regarding, cancer or limb issues as related to spaying/neutering, as some here have claimed.

But since I seem to have been called out anyway, I WILL tell you what I think.

This study by Hart and others at UC-Davis has been referenced many (MANY!) times by opponents of spay/neuter. Hart's study was on Golden Retrievers only. A similar study done on Labrador Retrievers found only minor changes in probability of cancer formation. It should be noted as well that Hart only analyzed three cancers: lymphosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma, and mastosarcoma. Hart has explained many times that he didn't include breast cancer in the study because previous studies have already shown that early spaying essentially reduces the chances of a bitch developing breast cancer to approximately zero. And breast cancer, just as in people, is the second most common cancer in dogs. So, we can say, in Goldens only, that spaying increases the chance of some cancers but reduces the chance of others. Hart has publicly stated this many times, and has stressed that the major determiner of cancer development is still genetics. This isn't surprising because all of us know, or know of, some poor non-smoker who has developed lung cancer. We normally think of lung cancer as being a smoker's curse, but any person, smoker on not, can develop lung cancer if his genes are coded for it. Any vet will tell you that certain breeds are "coded" toward the development of certain cancers, and sadly, Goldens are near the top of the heap when it comes to contracting many cancers.

Probably more significant in the UC-Davis study are the joint and ligament issues associated with early spay/neuter. This problem seems to have more traction than the cancer issue. The ASPCA has long advocated very early neutering and claim that their own studies (and those of others) show NO problems with doing so. But we must understand that the ASPCA has a "dog in this fight" and thus must fall under careful scrutiny by the owner of a performance dog.

Now, if I were to personally choose a puppy for my own quail or waterfowl hunting, I would carefully examine the pedigree and accept a pup ONLY if it has had no hip dysplasia in its background, as well as any other known inheritable disorders. Without question, pedigree is the best determiner--not spay/neuter--of whether a dog will develop limb problems down the road. That said, I would not spay my personal dog until physeal closure has occurred, say, at one year of age or a bit older. It is this man's opinion that allowing the growth plates to close first is probably a good idea in thorough-going working breeds. Other vets and breeders may disagree here, but that isn't unexpected because much research still remains to be done.

On my personal dog again, I wouldn't give the cancer issue even a second thought when it comes to spay/neuter. And if my pup was a Golden--a super sweet breed to be sure--I would understand that at around 12 years of age there is a high probability that it will develop cancer. And this likelihood is more heavily determined by its genetics than its reproductive status. Again, more research needs to be done on other breeds before we can call it fact on ALL BREEDS of dogs.

Lastly on my personal dog again, if I wanted puppies out of her/him, I would go right ahead and breed the dog in its early adulthood. Then I would spay/neuter because no one wants the hassle of estrus bleeding, roaming dogs (both yours and your neighbors), and unwanted puppies. But because of POSSIBLE--not proven--limb problems, I would probably wait till plate closure occurs. On a nonworking house dog, I wouldn't hesitate to spay/neuter anytime.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: Misfire] #5349176 10/08/14 10:35 PM
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This is not directed at any one person on this post.

Bottom line is it is HIS dog and he can do whatever he wants regarding the spaying of her. If we start shoving our beliefs down others throats I move to rename the form to LeftCoastandnothuntinganymoreforum.com grin

I always enjoy your wealth of information you share dawaba!


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Re: Spaying my puppy? [Re: kindall] #5349283 10/08/14 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: kindall
I'll go with veterinary colleges that do actual research.
No offence Dawaba, I'm sure you have seen a lot in your days of being a vet.
If I could not provide a safe place for my females while in heat, they would probably be spayed too. But then again I probably would have not bought females, if going through a few heat cycles was going to be a problem.


How about false pregnancies?


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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