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Quality deer management #5334220 09/30/14 05:54 PM
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Ricochet83 Offline OP
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I am sure this has been beat hard in the past but i cant find anything on here and through searching the web its mixed answers. My question is this is it possible to actually be productive in managing a smaller tract such as in the case 410 acres in live oak county. I know neighbors play a huge role in this but one side is high fenced and i plan on having a meet and greet with the other 3 immediate neighbors this weekend or the next to ask them about their philosophy on hunting to get a better idea of how they operate.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334228 09/30/14 05:58 PM
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It can work depending on the neighbors. What part of Live Oak County?



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334322 09/30/14 06:47 PM
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Ricochet83 Offline OP
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South live oak county between george west and dinero i guess it is



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334332 09/30/14 06:50 PM
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you and i have had several discussions through PM's about the place and i believe i emailed you a arial photo and you looked over it for me and gave me some great advice on what to expect and not to expect



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334343 09/30/14 06:54 PM
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scratch yep, just remember neighbors pay ta hunt also, legal is legal. seen tooo many squables on leases bout that's too small or too young. like pappy always say's: person with open mind has a wider point of view best wishes flag



i'm postaddic
Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334346 09/30/14 06:54 PM
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I thought that was the location, just wanted to double check. You get enough acres together with people in agreement(tough part) it can work out.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334438 09/30/14 07:34 PM
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Ricochet83 Offline OP
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i am hopeful in my future sit down with the neighbors. The 3 of us that are leasing the property are all of the same mind set as far as lets try to make something wonderful for 3-4 years down the road since our initial contract is for the first year with an out option and if we decide to stay and not use the out we are locked in for 5 years after so we have the potential for a minimum of 6 years and would really just like to have a place where just the opportunity of a 130-140 or even miraculously a 150 class buck walk out.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334452 09/30/14 07:39 PM
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That area is capable of those kind of deer. Just have to watch what is killed and numbers.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334505 09/30/14 08:02 PM
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Without genetics, you have to have lots of time, and lots of patience AND, being smaller acreage, if your neighbors don't have the same time and patience that you do, your just spinning your wheels. My one piece of advice would be DO NOT feed protein if you don't have the genetics or the time and patience to allow age to overcome weaker genetics. Save that money and go on a good hunting trip where you can kill a big WT. 5 years is a long time on a lease; however generationally, its only one if your harvesting mature WT bucks.


How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?
Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334545 09/30/14 08:22 PM
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Ricochet83 Offline OP
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i have been running cameras since the beginning of this month once i got feeders out there an operational and have only checked them once after they were out for a week or so and lots of pics of does with fawns some still with fawns some not. and some does with twins but the majority were singles. In that weeks time i got pictures or 3 what i guess to be 2.5 year old 8 points all 3 being about even with their ears at attention so i believe that there are some good deer down there. The protein we werent going to do the first year anyways because we got on so late and we wanted to do a serious evaluation of what we had first before dumping a ton of money in to it.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334549 09/30/14 08:23 PM
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during that week those 3 bucks were captured on camera at 1 feeder then 2 were caught at another feeder and the 3rd was seen at a different feeder. If that matters



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334723 09/30/14 09:52 PM
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Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5334724 09/30/14 09:53 PM
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These are just a few of the pics of the young 8's i was referring to.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5335024 10/01/14 12:16 AM
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I saw some really nice bucks in Liveoak county when I drove through there a few years ago.


Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.
Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5335229 10/01/14 01:26 AM
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I have a working agreement with one of my neighbors... another neighbor doesn't hunt at all, and there's 5 guys on about 40 acres that shoot pretty much everything that's dumb enough to walk through their place. I have some decent deer as a result I believe... northern refugio county, and I have a couple 130's, one in the 140's, and last year the neighbor shot a really nice 10 that went 150. (that sorry deer stealing SOB!!!!).

anyway, I'm not bitter.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5335856 10/01/14 12:57 PM
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I am optimistic that there is potential there. I know first hand from just what i have seen that there are good numbers i just can not verify the quality of the bucks yet to much as i have not been back to check my cams in over a month. One of the neighbors has a large tract how large i am not sure but i know it is several times larger than the tract we are hunting. I surveyed their property from the county road and all the scenderos are overgrown and not just like over the summer over grown but years of overgrowth. I can see some of the blinds on their property and they are falling apart and i can not see any feeders with those blinds. I can also see their living quarters and it is in shambles walls are not there and it looks like no one has been there in years. So i am hopeful that they do not hunt the property. The one that shares a fence with ours to the west i believe they hunt as there is a blind setup right on the fence line and i can see their feeder also their scenderos appear to be pretty well maintained. and as i said before the fence seperating the property on the north is high fenced so that side is irrelevant i feel. The other border is a main road so no neighbors on that side. I am hopeful i can work with the neighbors and have everyone be on the same page.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5335863 10/01/14 01:00 PM
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Also as a side note there is great habitat on our tract with water and we have 6 feeders we will feed year round and there is also roughly 30-35 acres of winter oats plot that was planted earlier this month. So i feel we have what it takes to keep deer on the property.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5335903 10/01/14 01:22 PM
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To many, 410 acres sounds like quite a bit but to a deer not so much. A bucks normal home range is about 640 acres and during the rut can be three or more times that. You can't really manage anything less than probably about 1500 acres but you can enhance what you have to better serve the deer and maybe have them hang around more. A co-op with the surrounding land owners would be the ideal solution to managing the area if you can get them on board and ya'll can come to an agreement on goals- all it takes is one landowner to not be on board and you could possibly be wasting your time and money. Foodplots would certainly be something I would do to help enhance the property and be your best bang for the buck.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5335944 10/01/14 01:38 PM
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Russ when you say too many what are you referring to?



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5336025 10/01/14 02:26 PM
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I have a real-life example:

Our place is 418 acres. We have been part of the local WMA since 2011, and have been feeding protein since 2012. Over the past two years, we have also managed to bring two of our immediate neighbors into the WMA as well. Now, we have ~1,400 connected acres all managing to the WMA guidelines and feeding protein. Even though we are a small place, I have bucks that I have watched for 3 years now.

It has been a slow, up-hill battle but we are making progress every year. I look for good things 2 to 3 years down the road. If I could get two more neighbors on board we could really have something. However, it's not all roses. Every year we still lose a few good, young bucks to neighbors that are NOT part of the WMA. Just the way it goes.

If there is a WMA (Wildlife Management Association) in place, join it. If not, you might think about starting one in partnership with TPWD. They can be great things for land owners.

Last edited by TxAg; 10/01/14 02:28 PM.

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Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5336119 10/01/14 03:10 PM
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Yeah my first mission is to atleast see if i can get them on board with at least some sort of co-op then as far as the WMA goes we can go from there. But i know i have to see first if they are even on board or if they lease it out or family and friends hunts or how they operate.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5336180 10/01/14 03:38 PM
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I think it would be constructive for sure. Even if they don't want any long term commitments you could at least let them know what your intentions are for the future. Them knowing that you are NOT going to be the neighbor that shoots the almost mature deer may give them comfort to let that deer walk as well.
I have noticed new deer stands on my neighbor's place(on our shared fence line) and I would like to track the hunters down to let them know that I am trying to manage my property for long term success. Obviously they can do what they want on their property but I will not shoot, and have not shot immature deer on my property.

Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5336303 10/01/14 05:04 PM
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Ricochet83 Offline OP
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yeah i agree worst case scenario is i meet the neighbors and at least get a feel for what kind of people they are is how i see it.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5336406 10/01/14 06:08 PM
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Your pictures at feeders will not show much this first year. Those older bucks are not used to being raised around feeders. The deer in South Texas will eat corn better than a lot of areas in the state. The rut will show you more of what to expect from that area. My place in northern Live Oak County I did not get my first buck pics at a feeder till the first week of Sept. They had not showed up from late July till that time. We are in the old farm country that is all in improved pastures or regrowth stages. Smaller tracts of land with small blocks of thicker pasture. We have never had good bucks over the past due to hunting pressure. The Eagle Ford Shale drilling activity in the area has a lot places not leased. Age structure and numbers are improving. I think hunters today everywhere are more age and management minded.



Re: Quality deer management [Re: Ricochet83] #5336518 10/01/14 06:52 PM
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Yeah i am not expecting to see the quality bucks till the rut anyways we have had a little over 4 inches of rain in September and everything is so lush and bright green right now i am suprised anything is showing up to the feeders. Wont know until the rut/ first freeze off comes to know what i a working with fully



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