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Long range hunting... #5233776 08/04/14 03:38 AM
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Deerhunter61 Offline OP
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Guys,

First, forgive me for opening up this can of worms! I recently got a custom 6.5 Creedmoor and have shot it out so far to 600 yards. After shooting yesterday at 600 and frankly how easy it was to hit the steel targets with it at this range I made the comment elsewhere here that I wouldn't have a problem shooting a deer out to 600 yard if the wind etc was great and firemanjg responded that it'd be unethical. Now I have to admit I doubt I would ever actually shoot one that far but...I know without a doubt I can make the shot with this rifle.

So here is the question...where is the ethical line drawn at? 300? 400? 500? 600? 1,000?

How about the type of animal?

Deer - max range 300?

Elk - max range 500?

Yotes - max range 800?

Hogs - 1,200?

When I thought of this it hit me...why is it that most of us will say that we'd shoot hogs or yotes out to 1,000 yards but a deer or elk we would only shoot them at 300 yards or closer etc? Yep I here you...some are a nuisance etc but the same Creator created them all so....

I can attest to this, there are a lot of us that have a different set of ethics.

As for me shooting a deer out to 600 yards...hum... I still would most likely pass but I can understand why perhaps someone else, an expert long range shooter, might not.

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5233794 08/04/14 03:54 AM
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Two things.. First, Fireman was kidding.. He's a big fan of the 6.5 round.. Second, as many times as this comes up, the general consensus seems to be that long range shots are dependent on the shooter & his ability with his equipment.. It's different for everyone..


Originally Posted By: Jungleexplorer
I really hate to do what I am about to do, because it will be very painful for you.


Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5233856 08/04/14 09:21 AM
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That unethical word wears me out. I think any grown man can figure out his own max distance. I, for one, don't need anyone telling me what my limits are.


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Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5233962 08/04/14 01:04 PM
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I am not a fan of long range hunting craze. Why? 1)Too many yahoos dabble and think their equipment makes them Quigleys. Result? A lot of mangled animals. (Plus I don't get it anyway as hunting to me means getting as close as possible, not seeing how far away you can kill something. Just seems weird.)

That said, there is no doubt those that are willing to put in the time and effort to become proficient can extend their ranges to some pretty amazing distances. Yet even these men know their limitations and the havoc even the slightest wind can play. Hitting a target at long range is not the issue. KNOWING YOU ARE GOING TO PLACE A LETHAL FIRST COLD BORE SHOT ON A GAME ANIMAL IS THE ISSUE. NOT THINKING YOU MIGHT OR THINKING YOU HAVE A GOOD CHANCE. KNOWING YOU CAN MAKE THE SHOT.Long range hunting and long range shooting are two vastly different things. Too many don't get that.

IMO any shot at a distance where an animal can move his vitals out of the bullet path between the time the projectile leaves the barrel and impacts the animal should not be taken.

Personally, I don't think anyone alive has any business shooting at a game animal under any conditions past 600 yards. Many will eat me alive for that statement. Won't be the first time. smile

P.S. Hogs and yotes are vermin to me so I don't hold that standard for them. I get that may not be right thinking but I have come to loathe them so much I don't care. smile

Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 08/04/14 01:08 PM.

Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5234019 08/04/14 01:35 PM
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I would think the experience and skill of the shooter along with a rifle suited to the task mean the most. Several on here post up groups at 500 yards better than anything ive shot at 200.

I like what nog said about nothing past where the animal can move its vitals before the bullet arrives.

In the end to each his own, its a personal call. Id rather have skilled long range shooters out there than people who take guns to the blind without checking the site or just have the gun bore sighted and never shoot it.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5234025 08/04/14 01:37 PM
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What Nogalus said is exactly the way I see it.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Sneaky] #5234028 08/04/14 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
That unethical word wears me out. I think any grown man can figure out his own max distance. I, for one, don't need anyone telling me what my limits are.


X2, to many self righteous experts pushing judgement via their self appointed doctoral in hunting morality

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5234038 08/04/14 01:43 PM
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The main thing you have to remember is that you have successfully shot your rifle out to 600 but that was probably off a bench or prone on the ground. Put yourself in a blind without the best rest and your 6" group just became much larger.

And hogs have no max distance. They should all die.

Last edited by aggiehunter03; 08/04/14 01:44 PM.


Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5234049 08/04/14 01:51 PM
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To each his own. We all have to set limits and practice is key to any shooting. you can say the same thing about archery. I have a set range for my bow even though I practice way past that point.


Good is the enemy of Great
Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5234050 08/04/14 01:51 PM
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Kind of an odd comparison, but I liken it to fly fishing. I learned to cast from my grand dad. He eventually had me throwing 80 feet of line. His philosophy was that although there's seldom, if ever, a need to throw 80 feet of line if you can do it in near perfect conditions you'll be able to throw 40 in less than perfect conditions. I like being able to hit consistently at 600 to give me confidence at 300.


"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

A. Einstein

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5234071 08/04/14 02:04 PM
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I am not a fan of long range hunting, but wouldn't set a specific distance as an unethical distance.

IME, most long range shooters love to shoot. They research loads, calibers, ballistics, compare notes, test their personal equipment with different grains, etc. They typically put many hours on the range and many hours making adjustments. They have a better understanding and more confidence in their weapon than many gun hunters will ever understand. As far as limits go, they know where they feel comfortable because they have tried it many times and succeeded.

On the other side, many weekend hunters may never shoot their gun. It has set in the safe all year, might have been pulled out once to be cleaned. A month before the season, they will dig through the old ammo boxes and see if they have a box that matches the caliber of choice. If they can't find a box, they will go to the local Wally World and buy a new box that looks similar to the last box they can remember. At this point, they will do one of two things: they will either decide that the gun is fine because it was on the last time they shot it, or they will take it to a local gun range and pay someone to zero their gun. Either way, the first shot they will shoot all year will be at a game animal and their "limit" will probably be whatever the other person zeroed their gun in at or maybe a little farther.

Guess your definition of "ethical" would determine which scenario is "more ethical."


Re: Long range hunting... [Re: redchevy] #5234096 08/04/14 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
I would think the experience and skill of the shooter along with a rifle suited to the task mean the most. Several on here post up groups at 500 yards better than anything ive shot at 200.

I like what nog said about nothing past where the animal can move its vitals before the bullet arrives.

In the end to each his own, its a personal call. Id rather have skilled long range shooters out there than people who take guns to the blind without checking the site or just have the gun bore sighted and never shoot it.

Yep


"A hungry dog hunts best. Lee Trevino

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Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5234204 08/04/14 03:07 PM
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Of course the scenario of yahoos not being able to hit the broadside of a barn and hunting anyway is correct. But that was not the question.

The practicing at range so one is more proficient at lesser ranges is a great thing.

I am going to hunt Desert Sheep. I will probably practice out to 500 or maybe longer. Right now the maximum shot I will take at a sheep under perfect conditions (which, fortunately, sheep often provide) is 300 yards. After I practice and practice I will be very surprised if I extend my 300 past 350. I don't care what I am able to do after all the practice I will never take a shot past 400 yards. Period. I ain't that good.

My goal is to get as close as I can. I hope the shot is 125 yards. 50 would be better. smile

Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 08/04/14 03:08 PM.

Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5234265 08/04/14 03:49 PM
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The reality check is how far can a first round cold bore shot on a 5" dot be made - RELIABLY - when not shooting from a bench or in ideal conditions?

Instead of practicing until a shot can be made, practice until it cannot be missed - there is a massive difference between those two skill levels.

Try practicing on cold, windy days and see how that goes.

For a true reality check - take only one round to the range and make it an all or nothing shot, not off of a bench, no excuses, no do overs, no Mulligans.

That will be a real test and a good reality check.

Practice on paper and keep the results, the targets will answer the question honestly and objectively.

No animal deserves to suffer, pick shots accordingly.

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5235062 08/04/14 11:40 PM
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Sometimes it's ok for the animal to win....this is hunting.

I don't have a problem letting something walk, if a top of the back hold isn't gonna work. Course I bring the right rifle for the animal I'm hunting and zero the scope for maximum point blank range. After MPBR, I can more than likely get closer. If not....the animal wins this time, but I'll be back.


Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5235182 08/05/14 12:39 AM
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Imo long range hunting and archery have a lot in common.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Long range hunting... [Re: aggiehunter03] #5235194 08/05/14 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: aggiehunter03
The main thing you have to remember is that you have successfully shot your rifle out to 600 but that was probably off a bench or prone on the ground. Put yourself in a blind without the best rest and your 6" group just became much larger.

And hogs have no max distance. They should all die.


How is shooting out of a blind different then a bench. Can you not get the same points of contact?

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5235201 08/05/14 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
Yep I here you...some are a nuisance etc but the same Creator created them all so....







...and God created fire ants, roaches, and mosquitos. Why would you rate hogs above them?

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: dee] #5235207 08/05/14 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: dee
Imo long range hunting and archery have a lot in common.


Best post on this thread

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5235235 08/05/14 01:00 AM
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Guys,

A year ago I was totally against long range hunting but now that I own a rifle that will shoot .5 MOA consistently so far out to 600 yards that has changed. I still believe there are limits. Frankly I don't ever see me shooting anything beyond 600 yards and before I do that I'll put in a lot more practice just as some of you recommended. But after being able to shoot this rifle so consistently I understand how guys who are excellent marksmen take long range shots.

I am curious if any of you have ever used deer silhouettes etc at long range distances to see how it looks in the scope...because they are darker etc...and to see what it'd be like to hit the heart etc at long ranges? Or do you just focus on shooting targets etc?

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: JJH] #5235244 08/05/14 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: JJH
Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
Yep I here you...some are a nuisance etc but the same Creator created them all so....







...and God created fire ants, roaches, and mosquitos. Why would you rate hogs above them?



Nice...and true! Great point...

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5235842 08/05/14 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: dee
Imo long range hunting and archery have a lot in common.


Best post on this thread



Agreed...

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5235868 08/05/14 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
That unethical word wears me out. I think any grown man can figure out his own max distance. I, for one, don't need anyone telling me what my limits are.


X2, to many self righteous experts pushing judgement via their self appointed doctoral in hunting morality


I feel the same way; however I have seen way to many guys show up to hunt and struggle to group well at 200yds then think they should take 400+yd shots.


Like Dirty Harry said....."A mans got to know his limitations."

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: deewayne2003] #5235888 08/05/14 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: deewayne2003
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
That unethical word wears me out. I think any grown man can figure out his own max distance. I, for one, don't need anyone telling me what my limits are.


X2, to many self righteous experts pushing judgement via their self appointed doctoral in hunting morality


I feel the same way; however I have seen way to many guys show up to hunt and struggle to group well at 200yds then think they should take 400+yd shots.


Like Dirty Harry said....."A mans got to know his limitations."


Concur,

Re: Long range hunting... [Re: Deerhunter61] #5235890 08/05/14 01:03 PM
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And a good range finder bolt



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