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Mar 25th, 2012
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What do you think about this scope ? #5225067 07/30/14 01:06 AM
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Chef Shawn Offline OP
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I am getting the Bushnell Yardage Pro 4-12x42 BDC Laser Rangefinder Rifle Scope for my 30-06 what do y'all think about that?

Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5225214 07/30/14 02:15 AM
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BDC is a gimmick. It makes an approximate hold for trajectory and does nothing to address wind.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5225305 07/30/14 03:00 AM
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Not for me. Too much "stuff" in one package. I prefer the KISS principle, and while I have variable scopes, I find a good straight 6x to be about as good as it gets for a whitetail rifle. JMO

Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5225522 07/30/14 05:24 AM
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None of my "scopes" require batteries to range a target.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5225552 07/30/14 06:51 AM
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Don't do it
Gimmick
Bdc reticles suck

Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5225560 07/30/14 07:28 AM
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I haven't seen a ranging reticle yet that does wind, but knowing drop is still a critical aspect.

Lighted reticles were a gimmick at one time. Some gimmicks turn out to be great ideas.

That being said, I haven't been pleased with the drop compensators that I have used, not pleased enough to trust them for making proper kills at distances where it would really matter. Inside 250 yards, you probably don't need one anyway.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: FiremanJG] #5225617 07/30/14 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
BDC is a gimmick. It makes an approximate hold for trajectory and does nothing to address wind.


Much less the holds are only good at select ranges and tied to a specific load shot in specific conditions.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: dee] #5225631 07/30/14 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: dee
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
BDC is a gimmick. It makes an approximate hold for trajectory and does nothing to address wind.


Much less the holds are only good at select ranges and tied to a specific load shot in specific conditions.


Ok yes this is true... But by definition this is true of EVERY reticle. Mil, moa, everything. You have to understand your load ballistics to appropriately hold for the drop. A mil or moa dot reticle just has more flexibility in the system if you know and can run the math.

I'm not saying I'm a big fan, just saying that they have their place and can work.

Honestly I think your going to see more custom BDC reticles. Send in your guns favorite load set up, info. velocity, bullet choice, etc.... and they build you a reticle that is spot on(yes yes at a certain altitude under certain barometric condition) but still.

Again I don't LIKE it as much as just learning to range-hold and shoot using mil dots but I think it is the way a lot of ppl are headed.

as for wind, how are you going to set a fixed point on a site that handles a variable condiditon? gravity is... period, it is gravity... wind is sometimes. there are some things that it is unreasonable to think that a scope can do


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5225646 07/30/14 12:13 PM
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You can get spot on by dialing no matter the yardage the same cannot be done with bdc it is only spot on the reticle at a specific yardage set. The aspect of wind isn't that it's variable it's that most don't offer any graduation to allow for the holds as s measurement. Another thing to remember is most bdc scopes are sfp so the holds are only good at certain magnifications typically the top of the mag range.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: catslayer] #5225663 07/30/14 12:30 PM
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Yes people will head that way. We are in a society of convenience and laziness. Oh I can mail my scope in give the manufacturer MV and BC and they'll do the 5 minutes of work for me? Sold. Here's $200. Well I'll do it for half the price. All the manufacurers do is use MOA and relabel the turret. Give me a blank turret and a free ballistic calculator and I'll make the same thing. I actually did this for Brother-in-law, for free just to prove the point.

There is a pattern for wind. With a Mil or an MOA you will know the hold for wind angle and miles per hour. The trick is judging the miles per hour. That is what I am an instuctor of and a student of. On a BDC reticle you have nothing to graph the wind hold.

BDC is crap and it gives people a false sense of security that they can make a distant shot.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5226140 07/30/14 06:02 PM
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I usually agree with Fireman, but not this time. I've used BDC on a few scopes in recent years and they work great. That said, I do things a bit differently in that I don't blindly use what the scope maker suggests. I use a ballistic app for the iPad called iSnipe and a reticle app called iStrelok. The reticle app has your scope reticle, so pick that one out and input bullet BC, weight, velocity, etc. and the app will tell you the spots where your scope's BDC dots are 'on'. On my first scope with BDC (Burris FFII in 4.5-14), I ran through the fairly quick process and then went to the hay field to check it out. Luckily, the hay had recently been baled, so I had things at various ranges to put targets on. The BDC dots were 'dead solid perfect' out to 400 yards. That was impressive. A few days later, there's a medium sized hog at 400. Put the dot in him and dropped him in his tracks. Same with a coyote at that range.

The only drawback is that out past about 400, there's a pretty big diff in bullet drop, so BDC is going to be a bit less precise - you'll have to do some educated guessing.

Nowdays, every rifle that I use has some sort of BDC, except the 260. It carries the Viper PST 4-16 FFP with the MRAD reticle. Pretty nice, though we'll see over time if I like that more or less than the BDC. Now...keep in mind that I'm just hunting. The long range target guys will have no use for BDC, and I understand why.

Truth be told, if a fellow had a 270 and a standard duplex reticle, there's no real need for BDC or the fashionable twisty turrets out to 400.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5226175 07/30/14 06:23 PM
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Have you tried your reticle and hits at various magnifications or just high setting? Most are only correct at one setting. The vortex dead hold is only correct at one setting which isn't full if I remember right.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: 603Country] #5226194 07/30/14 06:31 PM
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What was the wind like on those shots?

Friends of mine that shoot on my range and know what they're doing, using Mils, do miss on my range, even inside 400 yards. Of course, because of a bad wind call.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5226299 07/30/14 07:14 PM
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I agree with 603country, past 400 is where things go south quickly..

Also agree with FiremanJG, the wind is what gets you..
Range, dial for elevation, hold for wind with a reticle that matches the turrets, preferably mils

I think most people way overthink "converting to mils", I know I did.
There is no need to do any math or conversions whatsoever.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5226340 07/30/14 07:38 PM
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I too agree that while BDC reticles are not the be all end all greatest thing since sliced bread they definitely are not crap and can be used quite effectively. I now use one mainly for 3 Gun and have no problem (except high wind) hitting targets to 600 yards with a .223.
The problem is simply if you don't understand or know enough about your ballistics and how they match up to your reticle then you will be disappointed. I match my loads to my reticle subtensions and verify them and it works just fine.
Of course dialing is more precise and allows for all the variables to be entered into the equation.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5226386 07/30/14 08:03 PM
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true...
Same here, most 3gunners prefer a simple bdc with horizontal bars for wind hold.
We aren't really going for precision hits though...


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: ccoker] #5226551 07/30/14 09:17 PM
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Two Army Snipers shot the Heat Stroke Open with us this year. Last year they shot it and got crushed. They went back to their unit and told their colleages that Precision Rifle Series matches are damn hard. Small targets, far away, and high winds. They were used to shooting full size silhouettes. So it all depends on what you are used to. I'm used to two MOA and one MOA targets. At some ranges that is vitals sized targets.

Of course they were Mil/ Mil and FFP. They were better prepared this year.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: dee] #5226554 07/30/14 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: dee
Have you tried your reticle and hits at various magnifications or just high setting? Most are only correct at one setting. The vortex dead hold is only correct at one setting which isn't full if I remember right.


FFP vs SFP

Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: Chef Shawn] #5226977 07/31/14 12:37 AM
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Yes, BOBO is correct. All but the new Vortex are SFP, with the BDC dots correct at max magnification. Life used to be so simple when I had the 270 and the standard duplex reticle. Nowadays I have a short piece of blue masking tape on the front bell of each and every scope that gives me the dope on that rifle and load.

I will admit that even though I'm a quite decent shot, I am in no way equipped to do any competitive long distance shooting. I'm just not good at reading the wind, and that isn't the only limiting factor.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: 603Country] #5227389 07/31/14 03:07 AM
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That is the factor that haunts shooters as long as they are still shooting.

Distance is science, windage is art.

Mirage, grass, trees, waves on water, dust, anything that moves and I'm gonna use it for a -Carlos Hathcock "S.W.A.G. Scientific Wild [censored] Guess"


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: 603Country] #5228894 07/31/14 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: 603Country
Yes, BOBO is correct. All but the new Vortex are SFP, with the BDC dots correct at max magnification. Life used to be so simple when I had the 270 and the standard duplex reticle. Nowadays I have a short piece of blue masking tape on the front bell of each and every scope that gives me the dope on that rifle and load.

I will admit that even though I'm a quite decent shot, I am in no way equipped to do any competitive long distance shooting. I'm just not good at reading the wind, and that isn't the only limiting factor.


That's the problem 90% don't realize that. Much less the ammo needs to be chronograph in the rifle combo to be accurate as well which most take for granted.


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Re: What do you think about this scope ? [Re: dee] #5229143 08/01/14 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: dee
Originally Posted By: 603Country
Yes, BOBO is correct. All but the new Vortex are SFP, with the BDC dots correct at max magnification. Life used to be so simple when I had the 270 and the standard duplex reticle. Nowadays I have a short piece of blue masking tape on the front bell of each and every scope that gives me the dope on that rifle and load.

I will admit that even though I'm a quite decent shot, I am in no way equipped to do any competitive long distance shooting. I'm just not good at reading the wind, and that isn't the only limiting factor.


That's the problem 90% don't realize that. Much less the ammo needs to be chronograph in the rifle combo to be accurate as well which most take for granted.


^^Truth^^

After you spend lots of time shooting and spend lots of money you can do it without a chronograph. But ya gotta spot hits and misses and measure how much the round impacted off from calculated trajectory. Correct as needed, true up the data.


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