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camp vs. official scores
#5204153
07/16/14 09:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,757
Rob Lay
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,757 |
honestly not trying to stir the pot, but this is a reality worth talking about. I propose that 90% or more of camp scores are way over what an official score would be. I'm not even talking about outfitters, because it is just par for the course they will always put their best inch forward. I have a proper 1/4" metal tape and when I camp measure my game, I honestly try to be accurate as possible. I have also had the guides and others in camp field measure my game. NEVER has my score or the camp score been less than the official score! percentage wise I guess on average the official score is about 5% less. that doesn't seem like much until you turn it into inches and then it becomes 6, 7, 8"+ I think EVERYONE that is happy to share their scores should also get their game officially scored. I respect people where score doesn't matter, but if you are bragging about the score, then it should be accurate. I have never been on a trophy bonus type hunt, but for guys that have, are the measurements accurate when every extra inch is a bunch more money for the outfitter? what happens when you get home and official score is 10" less? if when I'm scoring and trying to be honest I add a few inches, imagine guys getting paid for inches. I have never entered a contest, but I imagine they are closer to accurate than camp scores. for reference what real gross scores look like in pictures, I will share some I've had officially scored. FYI, I was personally off the most, scoring my deer and mom's 6" more each. Taylor on the Mule Deer was pretty darn close. Mike on the Aoudad never scored them, we just guesstimated. 141 2/8" Gross 147" Gross 167 1/8" Gross 23 1/8”-23 2/8” (85 7/8” SCI) 25”-24 1/8” (87” SCI)
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204183
07/16/14 10:12 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24,259
dkershen
Rev Dave
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Rev Dave
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24,259 |
I'm lucky enough to have a county biologist that drops by to measure all the bucks on our Ranch, so I don't really have to deal with inaccurate "camp scores". Most guy's just don't know the proper process and mathematics. They'll measure the wrong spots and it's easy to forget to take deductions. Plus, to get an accurate score you really need a measuring cable, 1/4 inch tape and a yardstick.
Nice Muley BTW...
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204190
07/16/14 10:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853 |
We have had many of ours scored and on average, our "camp score" came in 2" low On my dad's 189", we scored it at 187". We have only been over on a few, but I think alot of that has to do with seeing it done officially over and over. Scoring deer with an official scorer and scoring alot of deer. But hell, I have been wrong before Pictures are dang hard to tell from. I have seen 130" deer look like mid 140's and seen mid 140's that look like 125".
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: txshntr]
#5204194
07/16/14 10:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853 |
We have had many of ours scored and on average, our "camp score" came in 2" low On my dad's 189", we scored it at 187". We have only been over on a few, but I think alot of that has to do with seeing it done officially over and over. Scoring deer with an official scorer and scoring alot of deer. But hell, I have been wrong before Pictures are dang hard to tell from. I have seen 130" deer look like mid 140's and seen mid 140's that look like 125". I should add that I do agree with the OP. There are alot of people that do not know how to score and measure from the wrong place. We measured the main beams wrong for many years. One of the main areas that I see people mess up is the mass measurements and measuring the tines from the middle of the main beam.
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204211
07/16/14 10:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
Western
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010 |
I usually place stated scores as "suspect". not to take away from a persons harvest, but understand many are as txshntr says (done incorrectly)
I have never really cared much about score, "spose" I should, but have only had one measured as a lease requirement under the game management premise. If I like the animal, that is usually enough, if I hunted for score, probably would never harvest much LOL.
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Western]
#5204219
07/16/14 10:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,057
ChrisB
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,057 |
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: txshntr]
#5204224
07/16/14 10:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,057
Kenneth1977
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,057 |
We have had many of ours scored and on average, our "camp score" came in 2" low On my dad's 189", we scored it at 187". We have only been over on a few, but I think alot of that has to do with seeing it done officially over and over. Scoring deer with an official scorer and scoring alot of deer. But hell, I have been wrong before Pictures are dang hard to tell from. I have seen 130" deer look like mid 140's and seen mid 140's that look like 125". I should add that I do agree with the OP. There are alot of people that do not know how to score and measure from the wrong place. We measured the main beams wrong for many years. One of the main areas that I see people mess up is the mass measurements and measuring the tines from the middle of the main beam. I agree with that and if you get a buck that you feel you need to score then your prolly going to be a little on the shackey side and miss it by a little .I will be the first to say i usually under score but rarely over score .
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204251
07/16/14 11:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Official scores from official scorers can vary as well......
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204254
07/16/14 11:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Thought 165 on the MD so there's little reason for me to pick up a tape on them if see one on the hoof...
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204258
07/16/14 11:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I have had Mule Deer I killed scored by the outfitter and then I scored for myself later that night. On both of them one was 5" more and the other was 4" more on his scoring. I always quote my score on them and he still quotes his. In all of the deer I guided and scored for hunters I can only think of 2 that I got more than the official score was by an 1" on both. I always tried to get as close as I can when I take my time and use the steel cable/tape. My difference and what the official scorers score will be in the mainbeams almost everytime. They get a bit more than I do most of the time.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: stxranchman]
#5204261
07/16/14 11:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853 |
I have had Mule Deer I killed scored by the outfitter and then I scored for myself later that night. On both of them one was 5" more and the other was 4" more on his scoring. I always quote my score on them and he still quotes his. In all of the deer I guided and scored for hunters I can only think of 2 that I got more than the official score was by an 1" on both. I always tried to get as close as I can when I take my time and use the steel cable/tape. My difference and what the official scorers score will be in the mainbeams almost everytime. They get a bit more than I do most of the time. That's because you measure from the wrong place
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: rifleman]
#5204264
07/16/14 11:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Official scores from official scorers can vary as well...... This ^^^^^. I have seen a guy take his buck to 2 different official B&C scorers and get 2 different scores. The difference was a point on the end of the mainbeam that one call a drop tine and the other called the end of the main beam that had turned down. Made a huge difference in the net score and a small difference in the gross.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: txshntr]
#5204267
07/16/14 11:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I have had Mule Deer I killed scored by the outfitter and then I scored for myself later that night. On both of them one was 5" more and the other was 4" more on his scoring. I always quote my score on them and he still quotes his. In all of the deer I guided and scored for hunters I can only think of 2 that I got more than the official score was by an 1" on both. I always tried to get as close as I can when I take my time and use the steel cable/tape. My difference and what the official scorers score will be in the mainbeams almost everytime. They get a bit more than I do most of the time. That's because you measure from the wrong place Not really it is how they follow the middle of the beam around to the tip compared to how I followed what I called the center of mass on the mainbeam to the tip.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204273
07/16/14 11:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Even in the perfect world of B&C scorers where they are trained to be accurate and the same you still can get a variance in final scores. There are still some official scorers that were known for being a bit more lenient on their final scores than others.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: stxranchman]
#5204300
07/16/14 11:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853 |
Even in the perfect world of B&C scorers where they are trained to be accurate and the same you still can get a variance in final scores. There are still some official scorers that were known for being a bit more lenient on their final scores than others. Very true. There are some deer that have to go to a "committee" before the "official score" is entered in the books.
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204316
07/16/14 11:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
What is really bad is that with the internet and how to videos that some guys still grossly over score their deer. While pictures are very hard to judge from and can make a deer look bigger or smaller than he really is. There have been bucks posted on here with their scores are no where near what is posted. Same for some that are bigger than what they are scored.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: txshntr]
#5204324
07/16/14 11:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Even in the perfect world of B&C scorers where they are trained to be accurate and the same you still can get a variance in final scores. There are still some official scorers that were known for being a bit more lenient on their final scores than others. Very true. There are some deer that have to go to a "committee" before the "official score" is entered in the books. What really gets tough is on Nontypical points on deer and where they originate off the beam or another point as to how you score the point. I watched an official B&C scorer dwell on a point off the beam where a G2 would be for almost 20 minutes. He was calling it typical one minute and non typical the next. Seen split browtines that could or should have both points scored off the mainbeam. I will always side on being safe and only score one off the beam unless it is obvious.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: stxranchman]
#5204338
07/16/14 11:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853 |
Even in the perfect world of B&C scorers where they are trained to be accurate and the same you still can get a variance in final scores. There are still some official scorers that were known for being a bit more lenient on their final scores than others. Very true. There are some deer that have to go to a "committee" before the "official score" is entered in the books. What really gets tough is on Nontypical points on deer and where they originate off the beam or another point as to how you score the point. I watched an official B&C scorer dwell on a point off the beam where a G2 would be for almost 20 minutes. He was calling it typical one minute and non typical the next. Seen split browtines that could or should have both points scored off the mainbeam. I will always side on being safe and only score one off the beam unless it is obvious. I would be absolutely lost on some of the non-typicals.
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: txshntr]
#5204357
07/16/14 11:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Even in the perfect world of B&C scorers where they are trained to be accurate and the same you still can get a variance in final scores. There are still some official scorers that were known for being a bit more lenient on their final scores than others. Very true. There are some deer that have to go to a "committee" before the "official score" is entered in the books. What really gets tough is on Nontypical points on deer and where they originate off the beam or another point as to how you score the point. I watched an official B&C scorer dwell on a point off the beam where a G2 would be for almost 20 minutes. He was calling it typical one minute and non typical the next. Seen split browtines that could or should have both points scored off the mainbeam. I will always side on being safe and only score one off the beam unless it is obvious. I would be absolutely lost on some of the non-typicals. Should have tried to score this buck. I considered my self lucky to be under 2" on my score than what the official B&C scorer who scored it for TBGA got. You should have seen the look on his face when I showed up for him to score this. The "official" deer contest score was 5" or 6" more than mine. Deer contest scores always seem to be high IME since they have nothing but upside for having more deer for people to look at on their contest pages. Some are closer to actual scores than others also.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204365
07/17/14 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685 |
What does the score taste like? lol
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: txbobcat]
#5204368
07/17/14 12:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,853 |
What does the score taste like? lol
Success!!!
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: txbobcat]
#5204371
07/17/14 12:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
What does the score taste like? lol
Crow a lot of times for some
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204372
07/17/14 12:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Road hunting again I see.
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: Rob Lay]
#5204374
07/17/14 12:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,358
jshouse
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,358 |
If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
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Re: camp vs. official scores
[Re: stxranchman]
#5204375
07/17/14 12:02 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685 |
What does the score taste like? lol
Crow a lot of times for some haha
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