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rem 783 or a Montana rifle? #5002065 03/03/14 01:57 PM
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kamolaw Offline OP
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Need input folks on last new deer rifle before I leave this world for the happy hunting grounds...Am going to buy a new deer rifle with choices between a Rem 783 or possibly a Montana custom built rifle, one being $450 latter being around $1100. If you have personal knowledge about either please chime in. I used to be a competitive shooter while serving in the Marines but now I only compete with myself, am over a half century old so got maybe another half century of good hunting times left at best...so go with a good Remington or treat myself to a custom built rifle what do yall think, get the remmy and spend savings on really nice optics and new binos to boot, or Montana with really nice optics and get better binos later? what yall think? wouldnt be asking if I didnt value your opinions...oh yeah will be in .308 the best caliber ever made.... rifle


I dont shoot innocent animals...only the ones that bare thier teeth at me... Semper Fi
Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5002149 03/03/14 02:44 PM
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Handle and shot a few Montana rifles....hands down that is the route I would go!

Better glass can be added as one goes.

I doubt you would be happy with the Remington 783, when you could have had a Montana rifle.

Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5002167 03/03/14 02:50 PM
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Well that's a pretty easy one. Get the Montana rifle if you that is your choice. Lots of better choices than the 783 between the two price points also-too many to list here.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5002604 03/03/14 05:54 PM
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I bought a 783 in .270 to see how it does. I have the more expensive Remingtons and Brownings and a couple of custom rifles, just wanted a .270. I am very impressed with how it shoots. It likes the Vortex 130 gr. bullets as well as the Federal premium 130's. It will shoot less than 1 inch at a hundred yards. Have never handled a Montana rifle so I can't compare to it, but I do like the 783.

Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5002653 03/03/14 06:22 PM
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While not having any hands on experience with either of these 2 rifles, I do have a 13 year history in Sales and Marketing in the Firearms Industry, with the last 6 years as the SWest Rgl Mgr for SAKO back in the 70's & 80's until I decided to go get a real job and stop just having fun.

With that said, here's my take on your two choices since you asked for input as a "Last Gun to purchase" :
A. Remington has repeatedly failed at capturing the Big Box retailer high volume market with a series of race to bottom quality products, and IMO the 783 which may actually be a better rifle than Remmy's last several attempts, will not compete succesfully with the Ruger American @ Sale Prices of $300+, or some of the Savage & Howa built Weatherby Vanguard guns slightly higer $$'s than that. Remington was bought out again ummm in the last 2 years by a Investment Banking Holding Co called Cerebus Holdings - look at Google - along with Marlin & H&R and the decline in both those fine old name brands quality foretells that nothing has changed since Remington was bought several years ago by another Investment Banking Holdings Co. Sometimes called "Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic".

B. Montana Rifle Co, in Kalipell MT was started as a pure "Made to Order" custom shop, and the sale of "gunsmith to finish recievers & barreled actions" and still offers those services. Their initial foray into a semi production rifle was a contract for CZ-USA under the CZ Model 3 Series for 3 calibers in WSM's. They used Serenghetti Stocks and assembled the guns with hand made craftsmanship in Kalispell by MRC. Nice guns if you can find one.

The ASR Series came out in 2011 to mixed reviews from folks who had previously bought the "gunsmith to finish products" thinking that they were a finished product, but has had the bugs worked out since then.

MRC uses cast CM & SS Steel Receivers of an Improved M70 Winchester design, made by Pinetree Castings that is owned by Sturm Ruger to make Ruger guns and golf club heads...FWIW the golf club head bidnizz is the prime revenue stream for Pinetree...as many guns as Ruger sells.

For more info on MRC & ASR products, call or contact: Will Parker, Sales Dept, 406-756-4874, or "will@montanarifleco.com" , 3178 MT Hwy 35, Kalispell MT 59901, or www.montanarifleco.com.


Summary: I'd buy a MRC ASR a 1000 times over before I'd buy a Remington 783...or mebbe even a current M700. Find me a nice 1980's or '90's M700 and that could be a different story as much as I don't care for Remington as a company from my 7 years as a full line Gun distributor with Remington as my #1 volume seller. IMO there other better brands in the same price range.

OBTW, there is a MRC ASR 308 in CM blue/wood with an upgraded fleur de le checkering pattern similar to the old '80s vintage M700 BDL but machine cut and not pressed in on Gun Broker right now with a $950 Opening Bid from a dealer I think called Great Northern.

Only reason I would order a gun, which can be ordered direct from the factory & shipped to your local FFL, would be to get a Wood/SS for a $30 upgrade on my April 19th, 2013 price sheet.

4/19/13 ASR 308 spec's: #2 barrel contour, 24" button rifled barrel, 10x1 Twist Rate, OAL 44.5"s, 7lbs 6oz's. There wil some minor differences in weight if you go to a Bell & Carlson Medallion composite stock ordered from MRC either in CM Blue or SS guns, and is the same exact stock that FN BACO Winchester M70 All Weathers use. It is a benchmark quality stock at half or a 3rd the price of a better finished McMillan Edge, slightly heavier with a full length aircraft aluminum grade bedding block that runs from the grip cap to the front sling swivel mount...or can be ordered from Stocky's & others as an aftermarket item for about $250 +/- which is what I'd do in order to have both stocks...and have a local 'smith pillar bed both of them for ease and accuracy in making the switch at home.

The only reason I haven't bought one or more of these guns is that they don't have an 8 twist barrel in 6.5's in 6.5x55 SE, Rem 260's & 6.5x284 Norma's or 264WMg's & or 280 AI without a substantial custom shop charge for the AI, and they don't offer a 6.5 x'06 or 9.3x62 Mauser at all without a substantial Custom Shop charge....but then neither does FN BACO Winchester in these selections

Thank You for service, hope this helps in your decision.
Ron


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: WileyCoyote] #5002792 03/03/14 07:39 PM
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Thanks Ron for all the info, you have helped me make my decision, my son will thank you in the future when he inherits my weapon collection with a Montana .308....


I dont shoot innocent animals...only the ones that bare thier teeth at me... Semper Fi
Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5002984 03/03/14 09:29 PM
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kamolaw, Couple things,
1st, there really is a recent Remington product that is worth mentioning as a solid piece of work. It is called a Model 798.
The "7" in remmyspeak is for CF bolt action rifles, and the "98" indicates the origin of the reciever which is a serbian made Zastava 98 Mauser variant. It is all finished out here in the States & nice looking with typical M700 BDL styling, with a normal Remmy hot button rifled barrel, and some kind of wood grain looking composite stock & typical remmy trigger. I'd not hesitate to buy one as a stout hard use item which is the deserved reputation of the Zastava product. Look at old Mark X Mausers etc and THAT's the same Zastava gun that's been made for 50-60 years under many many different labels. IMO the receiver in good shape is worth $300 by itself, or about what they sold NIB for.

2nd Your OP comment of "looking for a Last Gun", and then the "hand it down to your son" reminded me of an ongoing conversation I had for years with the World Marketing Director of SAKO that I had become friends with back in the day.

Esa Verho was a very large gentleman of some note and unusually wide experiences in his travels thru the Nokia Corporate ladder. He had a twinkle in his eye when he would gig me with his philosophy that typified the SAKO Mgmt attitude all during the late '70's and '80's after SAKO Finland fired their famous US distributor, Garcia Corp of Ambassadeur Reels fame, and set up the company I worked for, Stoeger Industries about 1977.

Esa always said this anytime we were together at shows or travelling doing dealer calls at least 5-6 times a day "You American's are a Very Wealthy People"....Why Esa? what makes you say that over and over? ..."Because you are a Kleenex Society, buy something and use it once or twice and throw it away...only a Rich Man can afford to do that"....usually ragging on me about always trading cars at 100k when I was running 60-75k a year in my 5 states....

He believed ... "A Poor Man MUST BUY FIRST QUALITY PRODUCTS THAT LAST FOR GENERATIONS TO CREATE A REAL ESTATE TO HAND DOWN TO HIS CHILDREN, SO THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BUY THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER"....

The MRC is not a SAKO & is a totlaly different styled rifle than a Tikka T3, but it is a big step up IMO from the regular run of the mill mid priced deer shooters like Ruger/WBY Vanguards/mid range Savages/ and mebbe even the bottom line Kimbers that have had their ongoing QC issues over the years. I think at the regular MSRP around $1100 the MRC ASE fits in between the bottom line of the low volume Build to Order guns that start in the high teens and low 2K's kinda like Little Red Riding Hood.
Have fun whatever you chose.
Ron


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: WileyCoyote] #5003809 03/04/14 04:36 AM
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Again Ron thanks...I have had the opportunity to fire some of the finest weapons the Marine Corps had to offer and I feel that the prey that I hunt deserve from me the most accurate, reliable, tools needed to meet thier demise that I can provide. I have been hunting since I was a kid and it is a way of life for me that I cherish every day. I again feel that the Montana Rifle group can provide that weapon, just needed more input that you have provided to make an informed decision. Thanks again for your insight will make it happen.


I dont shoot innocent animals...only the ones that bare thier teeth at me... Semper Fi
Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5004075 03/04/14 02:08 PM
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That Ron knows his stuff. up


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5004329 03/04/14 04:19 PM
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I was going to purchase one a few years ago, but upon researching i backed away from them, seems its a hit and miss, but i will let you be the judge of them. Just look up Montana rifle co. Problems on google. One can also search on the 24hourcampfire, there are several who have had terrible luck with them and some who love them. There are some horror stories out there also about the company! Just do your research before you pull the trigger! nuts

Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5004517 03/04/14 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: kamolaw
Again Ron thanks...I have had the opportunity to fire some of the finest weapons the Marine Corps had to offer and I feel that the prey that I hunt deserve from me the most accurate, reliable, tools needed to meet thier demise that I can provide. I have been hunting since I was a kid and it is a way of life for me that I cherish every day. I again feel that the Montana Rifle group can provide that weapon, just needed more input that you have provided to make an informed decision. Thanks again for your insight will make it happen.



Theres a good article in Guns magazine by John Barsness on the Montana Rifle Co. It was fairly recent. They have their magazines online for free. I want to say it was November. He had very good things to say about them. He was comparing it to the Forbes rifle which is supposed to be one of the better light rifles out there for the money.
A Tale of Two Rifles

Re: rem 783 or a Montana rifle? [Re: kamolaw] #5005621 03/05/14 03:49 AM
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Last edited by scrub buck; 03/05/14 03:51 AM.
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