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 Tell it like it is!!!
#485525
11/14/08 02:21 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,449
Auctioneer1
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I would like to know how you guys feel. If a rancher has 1000 to 25,000 place do you think he needs the lease money for taxes I don't think so. Look at the cost of the place how much do you think he bought it for and do you think the few bucks we pay them to hunt is worth it. Most places in South TX cost a ton of money and it's no one mans fault it's the hunters US and the ranches keep getting higher. Guys sooner or latter the small guys will not be able to hunt only the money guys so when you see a place priced way out there don't lease it and tell the rancher why if we all did this leases would go down just like the oil and gas but only if the money guys help us. We need to get ahold of the prices just like everything else we do if you don't think the place is worth it in that area don't do it. Do you realy think the rancher needs the money? It's a price war and he knows he will get it sooner than later but not if we stick together I know this might sound stupid but Obama GOT IN?
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485526
11/14/08 02:43 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 16,474 |
Not meaning to be rude or out of line, but, "Dream On, Little Dreamer Dream On".
I agree with what you are saying, but since this site, even with 10,000 plus members, equals to about 1% of the licensed hunters in Texas, I do not see things changing anytime soon. JMO.
Last edited by Crazyhorse; 11/14/08 02:53 AM.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485527
11/14/08 02:49 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 187
saltbranch
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 187 |
If its that simple, just go out and buy some land, put cattle on it, make a living and charge the chit out of hunters. Pretty simple according to you.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#485528
11/14/08 02:55 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,449
Auctioneer1
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Crazy I hear you but things have gotten out of control. Guys can say what they want but do you realy think the rancher needs the money PLEASE if he can buy 1000 to 5000 he does not need it trust me. I can hope and you are right we the great white hunter keep screwing our guys every year b/c we want what they have a nice place with all the gold so we will pay what ever to get it and the rancher knows it but like I said I would just like to hear what other guys think that's all. Not to piss anyone off just a ?
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485529
11/14/08 03:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 187
saltbranch
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 187 |
I guess every rancher in your mind just hit the lottery and they have land just for recreation, no taxes to pay nothing like that.
The land is a business investment, the use of it makes money or loses money for the owner.
Personally I think you should start flaming guides for hunters, they are the middleman in mmost cases and make lots of money doing it,
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485530
11/14/08 03:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,449
Auctioneer1
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saltbranch I never said it would be simple I was just wanting to know what you guys think. Do you recall paying these prices 10 years ago? Hunting has gotten higher each year how many guys come on here and say my lease went up again so I am looking for a new lease a bunch right why? Money always money b/c the guy next door wants your play ground plus there is no money in cows anymore so we make up the money SALT and I have been told that by plenty of ranchers you guys will pay a ton of money for a deer his words no mine. I got lucky enough not to pay those prices but we will sooner or later it will only take time.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: saltbranch]
#485531
11/14/08 03:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 213
BChambers
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 213 |
Texas is blessed in many ways, but NOT with vast tracts of public hunting land. You might be happier further west?
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485532
11/14/08 03:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,449
Auctioneer1
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OP
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Salt if the taxes are a big deal to them why buy a place you can't pay taxes on? How in the world would he float the monthly note if he can't pay the taxes. I was talking about a rancher with a few thousand not 10 to 50 if he can buy that I don't think taxes are a problem. When you say guides make alot of money you have got to be kidding those guys work there butts off and only make money a few months out of the year I will never bash a guide I used to do it so I know what they go threw. I don't know why you are so upset with this it was just a ? calm down no need for the flaming game.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485533
11/14/08 03:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,449
Auctioneer1
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You are right BChambers we are blessed in many way in TX and I do hunt out west now and those ranches are alot cheaper and bigger than South TX and we have alot of big deer. Thank you Sir.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485534
11/14/08 03:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 466
Smoker1
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 466 |
Yeah, pass up a good lease and you are just leaving it for someone else to lease!
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: BChambers]
#485535
11/14/08 03:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,738
Redneck Messiah
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Easy now fellas, if yall think the landowners are getting rich yall need to take another look at it, you brought up fuel prices, that effects EVERYTHING, feed, meds for cattle, transporting said cattle, How many times do you thing ranchers have to run a tractor over the same ground to get hay?? Minimum of 6 times, MINIMUM, thats if he dosnt spray or fertilize but once.
I'm right there with you brother, I cant afford a high priced lease, mine is 40 acres in Red River county, solid woods, tough hunting for sure but i have put meat in freezer every year from it, i trade odd jobs to the older gentleman that owns it and he lets me hunt.
DONT TRY TO MAKE THE LANDOWNERS LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUYS HERE FELLAS.
If you had 5 AR 15's and just one of you, should you sell me one for $50?? just cause you have more? If you dont like the prices go somewhere else. Not trying to be an A-hole here guys, just tellin it like it is. A MARKET DRIVEN BUISNESS. If you had 500 acres and hunter A was willing to pay you $500 to hunt, and hunter B said he would pay $1500 to hunt, which would you do??
Originally Posted By: cody
...give it to a homeless guy...he won't mind the stiffness
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485536
11/14/08 03:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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I understand what you are saying, I was fortunate enough for 13 seasons to have a 180 acre place up along the red River in montague county to hunt that did not cost me anything other than the corn I was feeding out.
The land owner just let me hunt it.
I walked away from it, because I don't have that much fun hunting by myself, and Lora only wanted to go a time or two each season.
I can remember when a good lease in Young county was $1.00 an acre/year round hunting and fishing/all species/8 guns on 500 acres.
I can also remember when some of the places people on this site are hunting up in Young county and paying what I feel is good money for, did not have a deer within 10 miles of them.
I have been watching what has been happening since 1970.
Besides the increased interest that started taking place in Deer Hunting in the late 80's early 90's, you have to look at the way farming and ranching started losing $$$ because the bottom went out of the various livestock/ and row crop markets.
Also, there have been some stretches where the oil and gas production on those places was not bringing in that much.
But those folks hung on, and continued paying the taxes and trying to stay afloat.
The interest in deer hunting gave them a window of opportunity to survive.
Do I like what has happened with deer hunting here in Texas, not really.
However, I do not place very much blame for the current situation at the feet of the landowners, because if folks would not pay the prices, the landowners would not be able to lease the land.
IN my opinion, landowners are just getting back part of what they have paid out over the years to retain ownership of that property.
will things change if enough people stop leasing, maybe, but I would not count on it.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#485537
11/14/08 03:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,289
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,289 |
I am sorry, but I only have so many good years in me and if I can afford it, I am going to hunt. If it was to get real cheap, everybody might be doing it. Landowners are getting returns on theirproperty.Life is too short to not do some ofthe things that you want to do and hunting is one of the things that I want to do.
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: BenBob]
#485538
11/14/08 04:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,258
Letsgo
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Do not blame the land owner, they are trying to make a living just like any other business. I read articles all the time about land owners having to sell the property because they cannot afford the upkeep, taxes, fuel, etc. What would happen if you go down to the local Ford dealership and tell them they do not need to charge 30K for a new truck and would prefer they just sell it to you for 20K.
I am one of the lucky people to own a ranch and I can guarantee you we need every bit of income we can get to keep the place up and running. Just think about the money you put into the upkeep of your home and yard and then multiple that out over many, many acres.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#485539
11/14/08 04:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,254
deerfeeder
THF Celebrity
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I know several ranchers out here who on land that has been in their family for generations. These are the grandsons and great grandsons of some of the people that settled this land. They have land yes, 10's of thousands of acres but can't make enough off sheep wool to pay the shearers. They have learned that they can't run cattle the way great grandpa did and over graze the land. There are very few who get royalties from oil and gas. Most either have had to get a day job or the wife works. That's just to be able to keep the land. They are land poor. Many of them have given up and sold the land. And what happened? Some developer snapped it up and sold it as ranchettes. None of them that I know drive a new truck every year, their work trucks make my 02 F 250 look like it's right off the show room floor. They have mortgages because great grandpa's house has either already fallen to the ground or is about to. Deer are on the their land along with turkey and quail and in some cases exotics. They are just there. They only get 5 tags a year too just like everybody else. What are they supposed to do with them? Read some of the other threads posted recently about how hunters trash the landscape with used corn bags. They ain't got time to go pick them up or to police all the shot gun hulls people left out there. Someone got smart and realized deer, and deer hunting, have become a commodity that people are willing to pay to hunt. It's called capitalism. And until the day comes where they need you more than you need them prices are going to stay high. When that day does come (if ever) they you might see prices come down. As far as taxes go, all I've seen is they keep going up. Does your county really need all that money? I don't see where those of us out here in the boonies get a whole lot for out tax dollars. One deputy for the entire western part of the 3rd largest county in the state. A couple of dirt roads that will tear the suspension out of your vehicle because they haven't seen a maintainer since right before the last election. Times are tough all over. JMO  
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: BenBob]
#485540
11/14/08 04:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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Posts: 16,474 |
 Not one thing wrong with that attitude. In fact I have lived by that code for most of my 58 years. With me, it is just a case of not holding white tails and their accoutrements at the same high level as other people, so I don't get in a big hurry to want to lease a place, and lots of people will take pity on an old retired fat man that is happy as a pig in slop shooting does, and accomodate him. It boils down to the words of the song, "Youv'e Got To Pay The Fiddler if You Want To Dance".
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Auctioneer1]
#485541
11/14/08 04:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
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Posts: 110,795 |
Maybe you need something like rent control. Wait a minute isn't that socialism? I don't see the cost of housing rent staying the same year after year, it goes up when the lease expires. Right now the housing market is in the down side, but the rents keeps going up.
As a landowner, ours is off the deer leasing market. Too much hassle for the money.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/09/full-3152-162968-charge_air_assault.jpg)
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: dogcatcher]
#485542
11/14/08 06:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,774
cuzins8
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
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Buy land now! Your kids will thank you
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: cuzins8]
#485543
11/14/08 11:05 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055
HWY_MAN
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055 |
Quote:
Buy land now! Your kids will thank you
Or cuss you! 
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: cuzins8]
#485544
11/14/08 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,322
Dave Davidson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,322 |
Auctioneer; There's dang sure no money in land ownership. I can lease grazing and hunting land a lot cheaper than I can own it. I'm dang sure no rich guy.
Oil and gas? If you have bought land during the last 40 years, it is unlikely that you got any mineral rights. When the drillers come in, the value of the land drops but the tax assessment sure doesn't.
Actually, I have seen very few land owners that really wanted to lease their land. Most would prefer privacy. It's kinda like leasing out the spare bedroom in your home.
I figure that if I didn't own my own hunting lease, I could take an annual safari to Africa or afford one of those really great S. Texas leases. Maybe hire a Guide and go fishing. As it is, after all of the land ownership expenses, my Wife and I can't afford a vacation elsewhere. We have to go up to our own place for a week and sleep in our Poor White Trash Trailer House. Yeah, I'm usually fixing/building fence out of some expensive materials.
Auctioneer, yours is a pretty common post around here. It reflects a lack of understanding. Tell you what. I'll sell you a 71.5 acre place that I own about 70 miles North of the D/FW metroplex. Then you won't have to boycott anybody.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#485545
11/14/08 12:12 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055
HWY_MAN
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 31,055 |
Quote:
Actually, I have seen very few land owners that really wanted to lease their land. Most would prefer privacy. It's kinda like leasing out the spare bedroom in your home.
Never have, never will!
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#485546
11/14/08 12:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 990
gary75758
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 990 |
Quote:
Auctioneer; There's dang sure no money in land ownership. I can lease grazing and hunting land a lot cheaper than I can own it. I'm dang sure no rich guy.
I figure that if I didn't own my own hunting lease, I could take an annual safari to Africa or afford one of those really great S. Texas leases. Maybe hire a Guide and go fishing. As it is, after all of the land ownership expenses, my Wife and I can't afford a vacation elsewhere.
+1
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: deerfeeder]
#485547
11/14/08 01:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,690 |
Quote:
I know several ranchers out here who on land that has been in their family for generations. These are the grandsons and great grandsons of some of the people that settled this land.
They have land yes, 10's of thousands of acres but can't make enough off sheep wool to pay the shearers. They have learned that they can't run cattle the way great grandpa did and over graze the land. There are very few who get royalties from oil and gas. Most either have had to get a day job or the wife works. That's just to be able to keep the land. They are land poor. Many of them have given up and sold the land. And what happened? Some developer snapped it up and sold it as ranchettes. None of them that I know drive a new truck every year, their work trucks make my 02 F 250 look like it's right off the show room floor. They have mortgages because great grandpa's house has either already fallen to the ground or is about to.
Deer are on the their land along with turkey and quail and in some cases exotics. They are just there. They only get 5 tags a year too just like everybody else. What are they supposed to do with them?
Read some of the other threads posted recently about how hunters trash the landscape with used corn bags. They ain't got time to go pick them up or to police all the shot gun hulls people left out there.
Someone got smart and realized deer, and deer hunting, have become a commodity that people are willing to pay to hunt. It's called capitalism. And until the day comes where they need you more than you need them prices are going to stay high. When that day does come (if ever) they you might see prices come down.
As far as taxes go, all I've seen is they keep going up. Does your county really need all that money? I don't see where those of us out here in the boonies get a whole lot for out tax dollars. One deputy for the entire western part of the 3rd largest county in the state. A couple of dirt roads that will tear the suspension out of your vehicle because they haven't seen a maintainer since right before the last election.
Times are tough all over. JMO
GREAT POST!! Took the words right out of my mouth!
![[Linked Image]](http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x283/Redtail16/1029997171_l.jpg) HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: gary75758]
#485548
11/14/08 01:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 417
pdawg
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 417 |
You are right mostly on the ranchers not really needing the $$$$. But in a way they do. As far as the prices of the lease's well that is our fault, they ask we pay. But lets say your having a garage sale, or your selling something thats worth 100.00 are you going to sell it for 25.00 I would think not. As said as it is we have falling into a time where the almighty green has chosen our path, and we strrrreeeeeeeeecth out or bucks and charge the fair market price plus when we are selling. So I guess what I am saying don't bash the rancher for seeing the opurtunity to turn a $$ ,and for the price WE set for him to charge. As city folks we see alot of money he is worth, as a rancher he see's alot of work in the meer upkeep of the place and as far as the cattle, crops and the revenue he can make, Thank goodness my job doesn't hinge on how much rainfall we have. Just as our cost of living has gone up so has his. I am very thankful for our farmers and ranchers. Now as far as the big high-fence ranches, well I never really like the Merecedes anyway. Fords , Chevy's and Dodges do a much better job.
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Re: Tell it like it is!!!
[Re: pdawg]
#485549
11/14/08 04:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601 |
And as for the "middle man".... landowners are just trying to make a buck. So is the middle man. If he's good, he'll make money and everyone will be happy. If he's not, landowners or clients will not be happy, and sooner or later he'll be out of the middle.
A lot of the landowners we represent would not allow hunting if it required their active involvement in the management of the hunting operation. So for those places/people "we" middlemen are actually the only way to get on the place. A lot of the landowners are either absentee owners, living in Houston or Dallas and not near the land, or they are older, or they have been burnt by people who think that a lease allowed them total control and treated the land and resources like crap.
It's called capitalism. If you don't like it. Move to France.
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