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Just Curious #4119154 03/13/13 05:44 PM
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Where do you think our right to have guns and our right to self defence originate?


Jesus Christ is Lord!
He is risen!
Genesis 9:2-3
Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4119190 03/13/13 05:58 PM
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From our founding fathers and the creation of the US
Constitution specifically the Second Ammendmant


James

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: Just Curious [Re: Nightbird] #4119253 03/13/13 06:34 PM
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Anybody else wanna guess?


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Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4119260 03/13/13 06:39 PM
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Where would you say it comes from?

Re: Just Curious [Re: Trout-killer] #4119320 03/13/13 07:13 PM
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I looked at your sig line and I am going to say.......Bible?

Re: Just Curious [Re: Trout-killer] #4119335 03/13/13 07:19 PM
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I would say that our rights originate from the same place that the Declaration of Independence says they do. That we are given them by our Creator. We are a free society-though that idea may be argued. We are not in a monarchy where we are subjects to a human ruler. The Bill of Rights guarantees our freedoms but is not what gives them to us in the first place.

I didn't pose the question to offend people of different faiths or beliefs. I just wanted to point out that, as Americans, our country was founded on the idea that men are born with the right to defend themselves. A 'piece of paper' doesn't give us that right, it states that the government can't infringe on it.

It may seem like semantics to some but I think it's important to keep that in mind. I find that the more I ponder this, the stronger my resolve is and the more enraging it is that some people think they can take away something that a higher power gave us.


Jesus Christ is Lord!
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Genesis 9:2-3
Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4119368 03/13/13 07:28 PM
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I agree. The preamble to the Constitution says that the founders agreed as well. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,"

Re: Just Curious [Re: TF Panther] #4119392 03/13/13 07:37 PM
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Re: Just Curious [Re: TF Panther] #4119407 03/13/13 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: TF Panther
I agree. The preamble to the Constitution says that the founders agreed as well. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,"


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Re: Just Curious [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #4119725 03/13/13 10:23 PM
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I rely on the wording of the 2nd ammendment itself, ".....shall not be infringed." Meaning we had the right already, given by our creator, not man, and no government shall infringe on that right.


"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

A. Einstein

Re: Just Curious [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #4119728 03/13/13 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: TF Panther
I agree. The preamble to the Constitution says that the founders agreed as well. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,"


You mean this
Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


From the Declaration of Independence


Preamble to the Constitution

Quote:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Re: Just Curious [Re: Slow Drifter] #4119740 03/13/13 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Slow Drifter
I rely on the wording of the 2nd ammendment itself, ".....shall not be infringed." Meaning we had the right already, given by our creator, not man, and no government shall infringe on that right.


"Shall not be infringed" does not mean they were already there, given by your creator. It simply means it can not be violated.

Re: Just Curious [Re: Trout-killer] #4119814 03/13/13 11:05 PM
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Then where did the right come from? It's not given by the constitution, just protected, so it pre-existed.


"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

A. Einstein

Re: Just Curious [Re: Slow Drifter] #4119948 03/14/13 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: Slow Drifter
Then where did the right come from? It's not given by the constitution, just protected, so it pre-existed.
More to the point, it is affirmed and protected.

Myself, I think it divine patrimony. Others may call it natural law. Regardless, it is not concept but rather part of a state of being.


Core-Lokt:The deadliest mushroom in the woods
Re: Just Curious [Re: Core-Lokt] #4120125 03/14/13 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: Slow Drifter
Then where did the right come from? It's not given by the constitution, just protected, so it pre-existed.


Rights of man come from man.

Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4120244 03/14/13 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: Quack Whacker
I would say that our rights originate from the same place that the Declaration of Independence says they do. That we are given them by our Creator. We are a free society-though that idea may be argued. We are not in a monarchy where we are subjects to a human ruler. The Bill of Rights guarantees our freedoms but is not what gives them to us in the first place.

I didn't pose the question to offend people of different faiths or beliefs. I just wanted to point out that, as Americans, our country was founded on the idea that men are born with the right to defend themselves. A 'piece of paper' doesn't give us that right, it states that the government can't infringe on it.

It may seem like semantics to some but I think it's important to keep that in mind. I find that the more I ponder this, the stronger my resolve is and the more enraging it is that some people think they can take away something that a higher power gave us.
AMEN

Re: Just Curious [Re: Trout-killer] #4121122 03/14/13 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Trout-killer
Originally Posted By: Slow Drifter
Then where did the right come from? It's not given by the constitution, just protected, so it pre-existed.


Rights of man come from man.


Are you serious or trolling?


Jesus Christ is Lord!
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Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4121144 03/14/13 04:28 PM
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I believe every man is born with rights until he does something to get them revoked or gives them away. I'm sure this went back to before North America was discovered.


Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.
Re: Just Curious [Re: hook_n_line] #4121465 03/14/13 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: hook_n_line
I believe every man is born with rights until he does something to get them revoked or gives them away. I'm sure this went back to before North America was discovered.


Agreed. We do have the proud heritage as Americans (and Texans, too) of standing up and fighting for those rights.


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Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4121484 03/14/13 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: Quack Whacker
Originally Posted By: Trout-killer
Originally Posted By: Slow Drifter
Then where did the right come from? It's not given by the constitution, just protected, so it pre-existed.


Rights of man come from man.


Are you serious or trolling?


Its no different than the right to vote. God gave you the right to live and all that entails. That's it. It doesn't include owning a firearm.

If it makes you feel better thinking you have a divine right to own a gun then, that's fine with me. I personally don't.

Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4121520 03/14/13 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Quack Whacker
Originally Posted By: hook_n_line
I believe every man is born with rights until he does something to get them revoked or gives them away. I'm sure this went back to before North America was discovered.


Agreed. We do have the proud heritage as Americans (and Texans, too) of standing up and fighting for those rights.


I'm with ya! My folks have been Texans a while "Come and Take It!" My family history goes way back. My great grandmother passed down stories of Santa Anna crossing the Guadalupe in Cost Tx where my father was born.


Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.
Re: Just Curious [Re: Trout-killer] #4121650 03/14/13 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Trout-killer
Originally Posted By: Quack Whacker
Originally Posted By: Trout-killer
Originally Posted By: Slow Drifter
Then where did the right come from? It's not given by the constitution, just protected, so it pre-existed.


Rights of man come from man.


Are you serious or trolling?


Its no different than the right to vote. God gave you the right to live and all that entails. That's it. It doesn't include owning a firearm.

If it makes you feel better thinking you have a divine right to own a gun then, that's fine with me. I personally don't.


I believe that we have a Devine right to self protection. In our current era, the most effective method is a firearm. 1000 years ago, the best self defense weapon may have been a bow and arrow, sword or a spear. Either way, you have a right to defend yourself with whatever is available.


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Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4121693 03/14/13 09:11 PM
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Everyone was born with a "Free Will". There are responsibilities that come with "free will". What if it was taken from you? Not every choice is right but it's your "free Will" to choose. That being said. I choose to own a gun and choose to defend my right to own a gun of my own "Free Will" which god has granted me.


Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.
Re: Just Curious [Re: Quack Whacker] #4121958 03/14/13 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Quack Whacker

I believe that we have a Devine right to self protection. In our current era, the most effective method is a firearm. 1000 years ago, the best self defense weapon may have been a bow and arrow, sword or a spear. Either way, you have a right to defend yourself with whatever is available.


More like a primordial drive for self preservation... But, it makes exactly no difference to me where you think our right to bear arms comes from. I may not agree with it but, I'll stand next to you for your right to believe and say it.

Re: Just Curious [Re: Trout-killer] #4122283 03/15/13 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Trout-killer
Originally Posted By: Quack Whacker

I believe that we have a Devine right to self protection. In our current era, the most effective method is a firearm. 1000 years ago, the best self defense weapon may have been a bow and arrow, sword or a spear. Either way, you have a right to defend yourself with whatever is available.


More like a primordial drive for self preservation... But, it makes exactly no difference to me where you think our right to bear arms comes from. I may not agree with it but, I'll stand next to you for your right to believe and say it.



Thank you, sir. And I, too, will stand by you, and the belief in the primoral soup, whom you believe in. And continue to defend our liberties!


Jesus Christ is Lord!
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