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Is a straw purchase a crime? #4112038 03/10/13 01:25 PM
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HeidelbergJaeger Offline OP
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Can anyone cite for me current Texas or Federal law (statute or US code) that outlines whether or not a straw purchase is illegal? I know that there are those who will say "google works" but I would like a LEO or someone familiar with the law to opine.

Reason I am asking is that former US Navy Captain, and NASA astronaut Mark Kelly may be in violation of the same standards that our government sought to end with the "Fast and Furious" gun buying program. You see, Mark Kelly is the husband of a former member of the US House of Representatives, and now a very big advocate for increased gun control. He is aggressively posturing himself as a leading advocate for his belief that gun shows should be illegal and universal background checks on all weapons should be mandatory, as well as an outright ban on large capacity ammunition devices (drums, magazines, speed loaders...).

Well guess who just got his hand caught in the cookie jar? That's right. The same guy who says you and I shouldn't have access to AR-style rifles. Mark Kelly was photographed (and later published to his facebook page) that he was making an illegal straw purchase of a firearm that he was not the intended recipient of.



As he stated himself, he intends to take ownership of the semi-auto AR 15 and turn it into Tucson Police. This is by far the best definition of a straw purchase that I can find. Wouldn't the seller of the rifle (Diamondback Police Supply) be liable to face charges of facilitating a straw purchase (gun store guys and FFL holders help me out)?

Here is his Facebook page: Mark Kelly's Facebook

Is it just me thinking that this guy is not only a hypocrite, but an elitist? I lived in Tucson for a good number of years, and to see this guy taking advantage of his wife's injury to forward his political cause just makes me sick.


Korea is nothing like Germany, and no amount of Army Modernization propaganda will convince me otherwise. I miss my wife and kids something fierce
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: HeidelbergJaeger] #4112045 03/10/13 01:32 PM
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One set of rules for you, one set of rules for them. By the way, Cicero said "the more laws a nation is a direct proportion to its level of corruption"
hey, what time does "American Idol" begin?

Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: zombiedrifter] #4112071 03/10/13 01:50 PM
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False Statements - It is a felony violation to knowingly make a false statement or show a false identification to an FFL: § 922 (a)(6), 10 years or § 924 (a)(1)(A), 5 years.

Quote:

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful—
....
(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;



Sheriff Joe could make that arrest and make it stick.

Here's a neat little 'cheat sheet' on federal gun crime.

http://ne.fd.org/publications/firearms_cheatsheet.pdf

Personally I think the law is crap (politicians and cops routinely lie but it's a felony if we do??) and 4473 are overrated in stopping crime, but use the laws against them and watch them scream.


"No, I don't know everything. I am damn good with Google though"
"Never get into a gunfight with a buffalo hunter. There's no such thing as cover"
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: centurion2000] #4112079 03/10/13 01:59 PM
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Thanks Centurion, good to see some citation on your post. I figured that Kelly was committing a crime by willfully falsifying information on his purchase.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is the sheriff in Maricopa county- in Tucson, it's Clarence W. Dupnik, and he's been the sheriff in Pima County since Jesus was a corporal. I think he's only run against opposition in the last few elections, and he was first elected in 1980. Seeing as he is a registered Democrat, I don't think he'll be pursuing this one.


Korea is nothing like Germany, and no amount of Army Modernization propaganda will convince me otherwise. I miss my wife and kids something fierce
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: HeidelbergJaeger] #4112528 03/10/13 06:23 PM
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I believe a straw purchase is when someone knowingly buys a gun to give to someone, or purchase for someone, who cannot legally own or purchase a gun themselves.


Ricky
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: RickyK] #4112591 03/10/13 07:12 PM
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RickyK the felony straw purchase is when you falsify the 4473 question "Are you the intended owner of this weapon" or something close to that.


"No, I don't know everything. I am damn good with Google though"
"Never get into a gunfight with a buffalo hunter. There's no such thing as cover"
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: centurion2000] #4113505 03/11/13 02:55 AM
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Savage388 Offline
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Originally Posted By: centurion2000
RickyK the felony straw purchase is when you falsify the 4473 question "Are you the intended owner of this weapon" or something close to that.


What is your thoughts on buying a firearm and giving it as a gift?


ODERINT DUM METUANT
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: Savage388] #4113522 03/11/13 03:07 AM
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A gift is not a straw purchase.. just make sure the person you're gifting can legally own the weapon.


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Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: Believer] #4113770 03/11/13 06:40 AM
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http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/episode-4.html

Keep in mind that a straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else — a.k.a. the “straw person” — to purchase the firearm and complete the paperwork. Generally, the straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because he or she is a felon or other prohibited person. However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case. Additionally make sure you familiarize yourself and anyone who purchases a firearm as a gift with the rules associated with the ATF I 5300.2 pamphlet.

Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: Sniper John] #4113772 03/11/13 06:45 AM
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This presentation does indicate that it is not illegal to buy a firearm as a gift if the person they are giving it to can legally own it.

Detecting and Avoiding Illegal Straw Purchases was presented by Las Vegas Field Office Resident Agent in Charge (RAC) Thomas Chittum on January 19, 2012. RAC Chittum reviewed some common scenarios used by straw purchasers to illegally obtain firearms for others who may be prohibited, as well as discussed some common questions to ask to insure the buyer is the actual purchaser. The presentation can be found at: http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms...w-purchases.pdf




Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: Sniper John] #4113774 03/11/13 06:49 AM
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Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: Sniper John] #4113776 03/11/13 07:17 AM
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Ok, now that I have given you some ATF links explaining Straw purchases from different angles, here is the 4473.

See question 11a and the description of 11a on page 4.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Unless the police department has asked him to purchase the firearm for them I do not believe he is making a straw purchase. It looks to be no different than a gift as explained on page 4.

Now it is a silly thing for him to do. It only shows the background check works considering he should have a clean background. Now if a known felon or someone who has been committed to a mental institution had done the same thing and walked away with the firearm, they would have something. But what he is doing is just plain silly as explained by another poster about the man's background.

Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: Sniper John] #4113784 03/11/13 07:50 AM
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Thanks for the info. I was kinda curious but for other reasons. Hypocrisy at its best.


"Speak softly and carry a big stick" - Teddy Roosevelt
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: Aquaman] #4113801 03/11/13 10:12 AM
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Folks it was only after the story broke that he come out with the giving it to the PD excuse. He bought the rifle on March 5th at 3:30 pm along with some HiCap mags, he didn't make the post on his facebook page until the 9th. He got caught being a hypocrite and now he's trying to lie his way out. I notice he's not giving the 45 to the PD.


Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: HWY_MAN] #4113902 03/11/13 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: HWY_MAN
Folks it was only after the story broke that he come out with the giving it to the PD excuse. He bought the rifle on March 5th at 3:30 pm along with some HiCap mags, he didn't make the post on his facebook page until the 9th. He got caught being a hypocrite and now he's trying to lie his way out. I notice he's not giving the 45 to the PD.


Exactly. It sounds like this is a man that's just trying to stand behind his wife who is attempting to be a poster for the liberal agenda. Obviously, it's horrible what happened to mrs. Giffords, but if the man wants a rifle then let him get a rifle.


"Speak softly and carry a big stick" - Teddy Roosevelt
Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: Aquaman] #4115265 03/12/13 12:19 AM
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Why should we care? Let him spend thousands of his dollars to "remove" the rifle from legal owners. He's just sending more money to the gun companies and they keep producing the same gun. So his $1000 he's spending to remove one is making two more.


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Re: Is a straw purchase a crime? [Re: DeRico] #4115334 03/12/13 12:51 AM
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I have never seen such a bunch of liars. Get up before congress and spout off all that bs, and get caught and then lie like a dog. I hope I live to see the day that this whole bunch goes to the pen.

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