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Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does #4091567 03/01/13 01:20 PM
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aeb Offline OP
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Interesting article on the Caesar Kleberg Wildlife Research Institute web page.

http://www.ckwri.tamuk.edu/home/news/article/maternity-in-deer-harvest-implications-for-doe-harvest/


Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: aeb] #4091599 03/01/13 01:36 PM
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Interesting read but I have question as in, is predation factored into any of the data? No mention of predation as a limiting factor. Also rainfall, wet vs dry years?


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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: stxranchman] #4091633 03/01/13 01:53 PM
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One of the faults of studies such as this is, by necessity, they must use such small samples. Good scientific research would require many replications and then you have all the other factors that you mention. Add to that the fact that they are studying pen raised/fed does and attempting to relate the information to deer in the wild. With that all said, a young heifer with her first calf often is a poor mother, my daughterís little cat just had her first litter of kittens and she didnít know squat about raising her new family, etc. This probably touches on where they got the idea for this project. At times I shake my head at some of these esoteric studies but this is a subject that I really wish I knew more about.


Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: aeb] #4091645 03/01/13 02:02 PM
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I believe the study areas are all 200 acre HF enclosures side by side with native deer from those areas. No introduced/non native deer. Habitat in each enclosure would be all about the same. I would have to agree with parts of this research. Though for the most part I would differ from what I have seen on ranches in different areas of the state. On those the fawn survival would be much different and much higher on all age classes of doe than what they are showing. This study is also for one particular area in one region of the state. Not sure how it would relate to other regions in the state at all.


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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: stxranchman] #4091866 03/01/13 03:31 PM
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The study makes the art of harveting does look more like a crap shoot.


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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: BenBob] #4092058 03/01/13 04:34 PM
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Lots of unanswered questtions there. I have been trying to shoot the old, barren does, but eventually I should run out of targets. What next?


Originally Posted By: NTRP
Having said that, shot placement is key and there is only one level of dead.

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Us east Texans can't afford turquoise and elk ivories for jewelry. So we use hog tushes and coon peckers.
Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: EastTexun] #4092467 03/01/13 07:32 PM
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This is what people have been saying for years and no one has been listening to right? Young does are not as successful as older does... shooting older does lowers recruitment... shooting younger does raises it.

It's not rocket science.

This is why people that shoot doe fawns have higher fawn crops.

This is why people do doe flips.

They finally have decided to test what people have already been practicing, and thank God they have because now the people that have been doing it can be "right".

It's like saying Columbus discovered America, even though people were already living there.

Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: AmoCuernos] #4092732 03/01/13 09:26 PM
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The question is" Are you shooting does/anterless deer to reduce overall deer numbers, or are you removing does to balance the buck/doe ratio ? they are 2 different questions and 2 different solutions and any number of variables can influence your decision, including predation, drought, high fence/low fence and carrying capacity for the number of acres involved.
Dr Jacobson at Miss ST. addressed this issue several years ago. One conclusion was that it would be difficult to determine a specific age class of does to remove, therefore a harvest of all age classes could be considered acceptable. It was also noted that the term "barren doe" for any adult age class would be difficult/immpossible to determine for all of the varibles listed above. There were several biologists attending that were in agreement that does of the 3 1/2 year age class and up appeared to have a better fawn survival rate than younger does. But at the time no large sample data was available to verify this.
As a rule of thumb (which is not very good), we have always shot yearling does, and took our lumps when someone shot a button head by mistake.

Last edited by Jay Brown; 03/01/13 09:28 PM.
Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: Jay Brown] #4093186 03/02/13 12:04 AM
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Sounds great unless you are trying to improve genetics...In that case you would be wanting to shoot off the older age classes and theoretically with inferior genetics to the younger age classes.

I don't know too many ranches in Texas that complain about not having enough deer. Unless its a commercially hunted place where more bucks equals more bucks $$!

Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: txbobcat] #4093790 03/02/13 05:22 AM
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Place I hunt in south Tex theory they ask to shoot older does to improve genetics. They have to shoot a lot so I am sure all age classes get hit though.

Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: Txduckman] #4094662 03/02/13 07:11 PM
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Never mind... LoL

Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: aeb] #4100973 03/05/13 03:43 PM
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We simply aren't nearly that scientific about it, but generally try to harvest does without fawns.

Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: Grosvenor] #4101383 03/05/13 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Grosvenor
We simply aren't nearly that scientific about it, but generally try to harvest does without fawns.


Ditto here. I think that especially on small parcels like I hunt, you can over think this.


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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: 4Weight] #4105296 03/07/13 02:02 AM
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How does harvesting by age class improve genetics?

Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: Cannon] #4106063 03/07/13 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cannon
How does harvesting by age class improve genetics?


Well if you been culling hard for a few years the older the doe the higher the chance they come from a cull genetic buck.

But I wouldn't expect much results from doing this.

Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: Chafro] #4106131 03/07/13 02:12 PM
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We used to genetically test all of our does to see if they have the predisposition to produce yearling bucks that will score over 200. We have yet to find one, so we dropped the program and just use common sense. Coincidentally we have more time for hunting and spend less time testing. But, if you want the data, I can get it to you for the cost of a South Texas deer lease for me and my scientific-oriented buddies.


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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: Cannon] #4106285 03/07/13 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cannon
How does harvesting by age class improve genetics?


"in theory," if u have been culling/managing your bucks for several years, resulting in a "better/bigger" buck herd, your younger does will have been born to and bred by a "better buck."

therefore their genetics should be better than their mommas and their offsprings genetics should be better than theirs....

so, if u are taking older does you are "in theory" taking does that have been bred by "lesser" bucks.

"in theory."


Originally Posted By: cameron00
If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: jshouse] #4130102 03/19/13 03:05 AM
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That turns my theory upside down....I thought they all got better looking at closing time...for deer too. Just kidding

Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does [Re: Sled2live] #4143663 03/25/13 07:34 AM
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They have to shoot a lot so I am sure all age classes get hit though.

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