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You CAN harvest two spike bucks #2772222 11/21/11 02:03 PM
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As the season end draws closer, here's something that many hunters overlook.

In those AR counties where hunters are allowed to harvest two bucks, you CAN harvest two spikes if it appears you will will not take a 13-inch or greater buck. The rules state that only one of the two bucks taken within that county may have a 13-inch or greater spread. In other words, the rules do not say that only one of the two buck limit may have an unbranched antler.

Those hunters more interested in meat than antlers should keep this in mind.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #2772248 11/21/11 02:15 PM
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Right, but that is kind of defeating the purpose of AR's. We have been down this road many times but that is how I see it b/c very few spikes are older than 1.5 and AR's are supposed to help protect the younger age class bucks. 2cents


Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: TxTechsan] #2772261 11/21/11 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: TxTechsan
Right, but that is kind of defeating the purpose of AR's. We have been down this road many times but that is how I see it b/c very few spikes are older than 1.5 and AR's are supposed to help protect the younger age class bucks. 2cents



Not to start a debate, but I agree with those who view the need to remove spikes as important as anything else when it comes to improving the overall genetic quality of deer.


Besides, with the true and ethical intent of hunting being more to provide a meal than grow antlers, I won't discourage hunters from eating more deer.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #2772340 11/21/11 02:37 PM
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With the drought this year and poor horn developement overall, your shooting yourself in the foot shooting 1.5 yo spikes this year.


Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2772369 11/21/11 02:46 PM
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I agree but would also say; this year wouldn't be a good year to shoot any age spike unless you're talking about on an intensely managed property.
Great year to take doe's to reduce mouths on drought stressed browse.


Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Rustler] #2772586 11/21/11 03:53 PM
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With the drought we had this year it is a great year to cull numbers. Be it a doe or spike it is still a number. You can never go wrong in shooting spikes IMO stir(just for you BOBO)



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2772602 11/21/11 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
With the drought this year and poor horn developement overall, your shooting yourself in the foot shooting 1.5 yo spikes this year.
Agreed. I'm seeing numerous spikes on a big ranch where I haven't seen any spikes in the last 3 or 4 years. These deer are typically our 4 and 6 pointers, but due to the drought, they didn't grow diddly for antlers this year.

Now if your goal is to put more meat in the freezer and you're out of doe tags (or out of does), I'm sure they'll be quite tasty. Just don't complain 2 or 3 years from now about not seeing many decent bucks.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Texan Til I Die] #2772615 11/21/11 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texan Til I Die
Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
With the drought this year and poor horn developement overall, your shooting yourself in the foot shooting 1.5 yo spikes this year.
Agreed. I'm seeing numerous spikes on a big ranch where I haven't seen any spikes in the last 3 or 4 years. These deer are typically our 4 and 6 pointers, but due to the drought, they didn't grow diddly for antlers this year.

Now if your goal is to put more meat in the freezer and you're out of doe tags (or out of does), I'm sure they'll be quite tasty. Just don't complain 2 or 3 years from now about not seeing so many cull decent bucks that you can't shoot due to ARs.

stir



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: stxranchman] #2772638 11/21/11 04:08 PM
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Heck, if that area's genetics are that bad, no amount of culling is going to help.

bolt



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Texan Til I Die] #2772668 11/21/11 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texan Til I Die
Heck, if that area's genetics are that bad, no amount of culling is going to help.

bolt

Heck ya gotta start somewhere peep why not at the bottom stir



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: stxranchman] #2772726 11/21/11 04:31 PM
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To me, starting at the bottom means getting the buck to doe ratio correct, getting the proper nutrition in place, and getting the age structure right.

Good discussion, by the way. And I see exactly where you're coming from, but I'll bet you a dollar against a donut hole that NONE of those things has been done on most of places where these folks hunt.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Texan Til I Die] #2772750 11/21/11 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texan Til I Die
To me, starting at the bottom means getting the buck to doe ratio correct, getting the proper nutrition in place, and getting the age structure right.

Good discussion, by the way. And I see exactly where you're coming from, but I'll bet you a dollar against a donut hole that NONE of those things has been done on most of places where these folks hunt.

There has never been a truer statement that this one. Most people manage a deer herd by managing bucks only. When I talk to people first getting a management plan started all they want to talk about are bucks. Never about doe, numbers, ratio or habitat only bucks.
BOBO this one was for you up



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: stxranchman] #2773226 11/21/11 07:28 PM
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shoot does, not spikes- you should never cull a 1.5year-old buck....NEVER! If you see a spike 2.5year-old or older...OK. I can back up what im saying, but without going into great detail...I got 2 questions for all of you veteran hunters, 1. how many years have you been deer hunting? 2. how many spike bucks have you seen that are older than 1.5year-old? you dont have to answer, but give it some thought.

(kid exception)-on killing, but don't say your culling spikes.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Bocephus1975] #2773731 11/21/11 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bocephus1975
shoot does, not spikes- you should never cull a 1.5year-old buck....NEVER! If you see a spike 2.5year-old or older...OK. I can back up what im saying, but without going into great detail...I got 2 questions for all of you veteran hunters, 1. how many years have you been deer hunting? 2. how many spike bucks have you seen that are older than 1.5year-old? you dont have to answer, but give it some thought.

(kid exception)-on killing, but don't say your culling spikes.


I have been killing spikes for the last 17 years now. I have seen at least 2 that were over 1.5 yrs of age. One thing I can guarantee is that any trophy buck harvested in the last 7 year was not a spike for me. Those trophy deer killed in that time would not have had a spike as sire either as they have been killed for longer than that on that ranch. But this it an intensive management program for overall herd quality and genetics so it might not fit the average lease management goal. I have managed ranches both ways to keep all spike and to kill all of them. I prefer to kill them all now based off of results.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: stxranchman] #2774186 11/22/11 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: Bocephus1975
shoot does, not spikes- you should never cull a 1.5year-old buck....NEVER! If you see a spike 2.5year-old or older...OK. I can back up what im saying, but without going into great detail...I got 2 questions for all of you veteran hunters, 1. how many years have you been deer hunting? 2. how many spike bucks have you seen that are older than 1.5year-old? you dont have to answer, but give it some thought.

(kid exception)-on killing, but don't say your culling spikes.


I have been killing spikes for the last 17 years now. I have seen at least 2 that were over 1.5 yrs of age. One thing I can guarantee is that any trophy buck harvested in the last 7 year was not a spike for me. Those trophy deer killed in that time would not have had a spike as sire either as they have been killed for longer than that on that ranch. But this it an intensive management program for overall herd quality and genetics so it might not fit the average lease management goal. I have managed ranches both ways to keep all spike and to kill all of them. I prefer to kill them all now based off of results.




up A lot of people base their beliefs on this subject going by what someone told them, might have been dad or granpa...just sayin'. If anyone is really interested in learning, just take the time to contact any wildlife biologist that works for TPW. These folks have gone to colledge studying deer, & they assess what needs to be done on MLD ranches....they study topics like this for a living. You can also just Google it up, TPW biologists have put out some pretty good reads on the subject. They will all tell you to shoot ALL SPIKES regardless of age, (not button bucks). They've studied the effects of nutrition vs genetics etc. I've been on ranches that shoot ALL spikes & have seen what kind of deer they have, & I've been on ranches that don't & seen what kind of deer they had. All truly experienced ranch managers that I've talked to say the same thing. www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/.../pwd_lf_w7000_0247.pdf......Here is a good read from TPW on the management of spike bucks. I shot a 1 1/2 yr old spike opening morning...and I liked it! stir



Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: skinnerback] #2774954 11/22/11 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: skinnerback
[/color][color:#CC0000]
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: Bocephus1975
shoot does, not spikes- you should never cull a 1.5year-old buck....NEVER! If you see a spike 2.5year-old or older...OK. I can back up what im saying, but without going into great detail...I got 2 questions for all of you veteran hunters, 1. how many years have you been deer hunting? 2. how many spike bucks have you seen that are older than 1.5year-old? you dont have to answer, but give it some thought.

(kid exception)-on killing, but don't say your culling spikes.


I have been killing spikes for the last 17 years now. I have seen at least 2 that were over 1.5 yrs of age. One thing I can guarantee is that any trophy buck harvested in the last 7 year was not a spike for me. Those trophy deer killed in that time would not have had a spike as sire either as they have been killed for longer than that on that ranch. But this it an intensive management program for overall herd quality and genetics so it might not fit the average lease management goal. I have managed ranches both ways to keep all spike and to kill all of them. I prefer to kill them all now based off of results.




up A lot of people base their beliefs on this subject going by what someone told them, might have been dad or granpa...just sayin'. If anyone is really interested in learning, just take the time to contact any wildlife biologist that works for TPW. These folks have gone to colledge studying deer, & they assess what needs to be done on MLD ranches....they study topics like this for a living. You can also just Google it up, TPW biologists have put out some pretty good reads on the subject. They will all tell you to shoot ALL SPIKES regardless of age, (not button bucks). They've studied the effects of nutrition vs genetics etc. I've been on ranches that shoot ALL spikes & have seen what kind of deer they have, & I've been on ranches that don't & seen what kind of deer they had. All truly experienced ranch managers that I've talked to say the same thing. www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/.../pwd_lf_w7000_0247.pdf......Here is a good read from TPW on the management of spike bucks. I shot a 1 1/2 yr old spike opening morning...and I liked it! stir

I take it even farther than spikes when culling in yearling bucks. But that is a whole different subject matter. stir We have probably been on some of the same ranches.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: stxranchman] #2775014 11/22/11 04:38 AM
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We may have sir, I enjoy learning. You can't learn anything if you come into the conversation with a closed mind. I used to never shoot spikes as well, but I've changed my way of thinking after learning from folks that new more than me.


Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: skinnerback] #2775024 11/22/11 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: skinnerback
We may have sir, I enjoy learning. You can't learn anything if you come into the conversation with a closed mind. I used to never shoot spikes as well, but I've changed my way of thinking after learning from folks that new more than me.

Learn something new everyday. Some of it I wished I didn't though. hammer Like I posted above I used to not shoot spikes either. I did not shoot them for 5 years and had all of the data and records to back up my reasoning for shooting them after that.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: stxranchman] #2775058 11/22/11 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: skinnerback
We may have sir, I enjoy learning. You can't learn anything if you come into the conversation with a closed mind. I used to never shoot spikes as well, but I've changed my way of thinking after learning from folks that new more than me.

Learn something new everyday. Some of it I wished I didn't though. hammer Like I posted above I used to not shoot spikes either. I did not shoot them for 5 years and had all of the data and records to back up my reasoning for shooting them after that.




LOL, I'm not saying that you are closed minded....don't get me wrong. You actually sound like you know what you're talking about lol. I was speaking of so many others that believe in letting a spike go for a couple of years. On some of the little places that I've hunted it really doesn't matter, because folks can talk all they want to at camp but then turn around & shoot the exact kinda deer they said they wouldn't. So....management goes out the window & is really hard to do anyway on a small place with LF, especially with neighbors who shoot everything. On a bigger place that you can actually manage well...you know it's a different ball game.


Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: skinnerback] #2775399 11/22/11 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: skinnerback
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: skinnerback
We may have sir, I enjoy learning. You can't learn anything if you come into the conversation with a closed mind. I used to never shoot spikes as well, but I've changed my way of thinking after learning from folks that new more than me.

Learn something new everyday. Some of it I wished I didn't though. hammer Like I posted above I used to not shoot spikes either. I did not shoot them for 5 years and had all of the data and records to back up my reasoning for shooting them after that.




LOL, I'm not saying that you are closed minded....don't get me wrong. You actually sound like you know what you're talking about lol. I was speaking of so many others that believe in letting a spike go for a couple of years. On some of the little places that I've hunted it really doesn't matter, because folks can talk all they want to at camp but then turn around & shoot the exact kinda deer they said they wouldn't. So....management goes out the window & is really hard to do anyway on a small place with LF, especially with neighbors who shoot everything. On a bigger place that you can actually manage well...you know it's a different ball game.

I knew exactly what you mean't up But the fact that I am half German and half Polish you never know which side is posting a response roflmao Management is site specific also, which I learned that one many years ago now.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: stxranchman] #2777297 11/23/11 12:49 AM
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1.5 year old free range


2.5 year old free range(same deer as above)


7.5 pen raised deer (spike @ 1.5)-sorry no pic


I'm not here to argue, but have been lucky to have friends and to be involved in all aspects of whitetail deer management, including genetics. I do understand why some management programs harvest spikes, buy I still say the earliest you should shoot a spike is 2.5, and the earliest you should cull a branched antlered buck is 3.5.



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Re: You CAN harvest two spike bucks [Re: Bocephus1975] #2777592 11/23/11 02:30 AM
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thanks for the info op, seems like some wanted to turn a simple informative post about shooting a extra spike into ar debate lol.



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