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The Legend Of The Brady Buck #2272335 04/26/11 11:10 PM
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How many of ya'll are familiar with the history behind this beast? It's the largest free ranging whitetail the Lone Star State has ever produced. Anyway, a recent article got me thinking about the history behind this deer and I will have the writer - Bill Miller - on the show this weekend to discuss the Brady Buck (AKA Benson Buck, McCullock Buck, and 78 Point Buck).

This deer ranked #1 all time B&C for over a quarter century and grew up right here in Central Texas (near Brady). Nobody knows who really shot it or who found the carcass. But there are two sets of antlers from this deer that are currently on display, the larger of the two scoring 286 with 78 scorable points.

Their is a replica on display at the new Cabela's in Allen for anyone who would like to see one of the most amazing whitetails ever to walk this earth.

When did this buck live? Try 1890...so much history surrounds this deer and I hope ya'll will try tune into what should be a great interview.




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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: cable] #2272509 04/27/11 12:04 AM
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Note:

They didn't have AR's in 1890.............


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: cable] #2272520 04/27/11 12:09 AM
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Interesting side not to this Cable is that there are lots of stories about where the buck was killed/found. Some say the Ford Ranch, some say a ranch on the San Saba River south of Brady, and I have a friend that says it might be on his ranch on the west side of the Ford since stories he has been told say that the buck was found/killed by a windmill back then. Water in that area was deep and hard to come by and he had the only windmill for many miles and it was a shared one. Might ask about this.



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: calcreek] #2272524 04/27/11 12:10 AM
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Coolest thing about the brady buck is their is a pair of sheds from the year before and of course horns at death..... consecutive years....

If we would of had record rains that year...that buck could of broke the 300 mark.



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: BOBO the Clown] #2272536 04/27/11 12:14 AM
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BOBO it NEVER rains in Brady so an inch or so would have done that in the spring that year. Sheds actually score more than the record buck I think.



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: BOBO the Clown] #2272574 04/27/11 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Coolest thing about the brady buck is their is a pair of sheds from the year before and of course horns at death..... consecutive years....

If we would of had record rains that year...that buck could of broke the 300 mark.




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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: BMD] #2272630 04/27/11 12:44 AM
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Funny thing is there weren't a whole bunch of deer around back then either. I don't know this from first hand experience but my grandpa killed an enormous buck (not nearly as big as that one of course) in the early 1900's and said deer were far and few. I guess meat was their doom.


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: grout-scout] #2272705 04/27/11 01:00 AM
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Very cool story


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: grout-scout] #2272706 04/27/11 01:00 AM
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Good friend of mine's dad killed a 169 net out of his back porch in the 60's in Lake Victor. That plus many other stories such as this one are why i think the deer were way better back 40-60 years ago and longer, than what there are now.

(not counting HF)



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: Rowney] #2272889 04/27/11 01:52 AM
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GREAT story behind the "Brady Buck"! Used to go down to San Antonio to the Lone Star "Hall of Horns" and look at the old mount, then enjoy a cold lone star on tap. Those were the days!


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: hawk] #2273122 04/27/11 03:00 AM
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I am going to make sure and stop in there when I go to San Antonio this summer. Hell, it is the biggest deer ever scored out of Texas. (not including high fence grin)


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: cable] #2273128 04/27/11 03:03 AM
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John Stein knows a lot about this buck also. I think he is affiliated with the Buckhorn now in San Antonio.



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: grout-scout] #2273188 04/27/11 03:23 AM
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Refrigeration and easy access meat at grocery stores made hunting for meat obsolete for many and the elimination of predators led to over population and destruction of forage. That's why I think deer outside of HF and strict management in Texas have declined.


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: blancobuster] #2273242 04/27/11 03:43 AM
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Obviously 4.5 yo, should have let it grow for a couple of years.


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: grout-scout] #2273667 04/27/11 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Funny thing is there weren't a whole bunch of deer around back then either. I don't know this from first hand experience but my grandpa killed an enormous buck (not nearly as big as that one of course) in the early 1900's and said deer were far and few. I guess meat was their doom.
Deer populations were far fewer, especially in the west of the I-35 corridor, but more as a result of very different habitat conditions. Hunters today would not recognize the landscape if they were dropped on the same place they hunt now 100 years ago. The cover and brush we have so much of today existed in more isolated pockets and the deer were pretty well confined within those pockets.

Years ago I leased from an old timer out of Rocksprings and he told me stories of what that country was like in the early 1900's, grass prairie mostly with pockets of Live Oak and cedar and mesquite pretty well limited to the ridges and headers of canyons, draws and some hill sides.

I asked him how much of a factor water was in the deer population and he said that water was steady as the creeks that are dry today ran with water but soon started to dry up as the brush took over from over grazing. Today the deer have moved even futher west strictly because of water available from wells and windmills.


Last edited by murph; 04/27/11 01:21 PM.

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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: Rowney] #2273693 04/27/11 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rowney
Good friend of mine's dad killed a 169 net out of his back porch in the 60's in Lake Victor. That plus many other stories such as this one are why i think the deer were way better back 40-60 years ago and longer, than what there are now.

(not counting HF)


I'm going to go ahead and strongly disagree with your assertion. Sure there are plenty of big bucks that were taken back then. But the herd was like 1/12th its current size.


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: blancobuster] #2273811 04/27/11 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: blancobuster
Refrigeration and easy access meat at grocery stores made hunting for meat obsolete for many and the elimination of predators led to over population and destruction of forage. That's why I think deer outside of HF and strict management in Texas have declined.


I think the exact opposite. I know in my area the deer herd has improved ten fold in just the years that I have been hunting. I had the priviledge to hunt the same lease for over 20 years and in the beginning you were lucky to shoot a deer and definately wouldn't see deer every time you went out. By the time we left it wasn't uncommon to see 10 or more deer and be able to harvest a 130+ inch buck in a season.


Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: murph] #2273930 04/27/11 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: murph
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Funny thing is there weren't a whole bunch of deer around back then either. I don't know this from first hand experience but my grandpa killed an enormous buck (not nearly as big as that one of course) in the early 1900's and said deer were far and few. I guess meat was their doom.
Deer populations were far fewer, especially in the west of the I-35 corridor, but more as a result of very different habitat conditions. Hunters today would not recognize the landscape if they were dropped on the same place they hunt now 100 years ago. The cover and brush we have so much of today existed in more isolated pockets and the deer were pretty well confined within those pockets.

Years ago I leased from an old timer out of Rocksprings and he told me stories of what that country was like in the early 1900's, grass prairie mostly with pockets of Live Oak and cedar and mesquite pretty well limited to the ridges and headers of canyons, draws and some hill sides.

I asked him how much of a factor water was in the deer population and he said that water was steady as the creeks that are dry today ran with water but soon started to dry up as the brush took over from over grazing. Today the deer have moved even futher west strictly because of water available from wells and windmills.


Those are the facts.Farming after the turn of the century quickly denuded the rich but shallow soil layer and the cedars and mesquites took over. This in turn affected the water situation greatly. The early writings of the pioneeers describe central Texas/the hill country as a veritable paradise of mostly open land and fertile soil. The cover which came later led to the burgeoning deer populations seen today.



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #2273991 04/27/11 03:33 PM
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IMO deer populations have gained because of man's efforts to make a living out of farming and ranching, which made the deer's the habitat better, more water sources, and because of the elimination of the screw worm. Quality went down for a few years because of more deer numbers without management and the last 25 years or so the qulaity of deer has gone up because of management practices.



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #2274014 04/27/11 03:41 PM
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Ask him if there is any more info on the guy that supposedly shot this buck but could never find it.



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #2274098 04/27/11 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: murph
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Funny thing is there weren't a whole bunch of deer around back then either. I don't know this from first hand experience but my grandpa killed an enormous buck (not nearly as big as that one of course) in the early 1900's and said deer were far and few. I guess meat was their doom.
Deer populations were far fewer, especially in the west of the I-35 corridor, but more as a result of very different habitat conditions. Hunters today would not recognize the landscape if they were dropped on the same place they hunt now 100 years ago. The cover and brush we have so much of today existed in more isolated pockets and the deer were pretty well confined within those pockets.

Years ago I leased from an old timer out of Rocksprings and he told me stories of what that country was like in the early 1900's, grass prairie mostly with pockets of Live Oak and cedar and mesquite pretty well limited to the ridges and headers of canyons, draws and some hill sides.

I asked him how much of a factor water was in the deer population and he said that water was steady as the creeks that are dry today ran with water but soon started to dry up as the brush took over from over grazing. Today the deer have moved even futher west strictly because of water available from wells and windmills.


Those are the facts.Farming after the turn of the century quickly denuded the rich but shallow soil layer and the cedars and mesquites took over. This in turn affected the water situation greatly. The early writings of the pioneeers describe central Texas/the hill country as a veritable paradise of mostly open land and fertile soil. The cover which came later led to the burgeoning deer populations seen today.

Deer were very far and few back then. Like posted the terrain looked much different. Rainfall went much farther in grass country than in brush as it is today. If you research the record books on deer you will see that the Edwards Plateau produced some of the biggest nontypicals in the record book. Why? Habitat was the main reason back then and grazing practices. That area is and was rich in forbes and deep rooted forbes. Overgrazing removed many of the forbes and ground cover. Drought let the less desireable plants take hold. Screw eradication along with mast producing trees taking over led to a population explosion in that area. Also due to lack of predators from livestock practices. South Texas was not different back then other than it lacked rain. The areas down south were grassland praires also with only brush in the draws and drainages. Over grazing and drought led to more undesireable brush and weeds moving in. But also some great browse species took hold helping out. Stories I have heard from old timers is that due to the lack of deer in South Texas most ranchers hunted in the Hill Country back the due to the quality and amount of deer. Old time ranchers in the Hill Country talked of very fertile soils but lack of depth in them with very good seasonal rains. I think the good old days of hunting are today. Overpopulation of deer, lack of prescribed burning as a management tool, undersireable species of plants taking over that are poor quality water sucking species have turned some deer herds in a downward trend. The money to improve the habitat is not there any more with land fragmentation. Increased hunting pressure in some areas is part to blame also to help make the family farm/ranch stay alive in todays economy for areas that have lesser quality of animals.



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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: stxranchman] #2274515 04/27/11 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: murph
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Funny thing is there weren't a whole bunch of deer around back then either. I don't know this from first hand experience but my grandpa killed an enormous buck (not nearly as big as that one of course) in the early 1900's and said deer were far and few. I guess meat was their doom.
Deer populations were far fewer, especially in the west of the I-35 corridor, but more as a result of very different habitat conditions. Hunters today would not recognize the landscape if they were dropped on the same place they hunt now 100 years ago. The cover and brush we have so much of today existed in more isolated pockets and the deer were pretty well confined within those pockets.



That's exactly what I think

Years ago I leased from an old timer out of Rocksprings and he told me stories of what that country was like in the early 1900's, grass prairie mostly with pockets of Live Oak and cedar and mesquite pretty well limited to the ridges and headers of canyons, draws and some hill sides.

I asked him how much of a factor water was in the deer population and he said that water was steady as the creeks that are dry today ran with water but soon started to dry up as the brush took over from over grazing. Today the deer have moved even futher west strictly because of water available from wells and windmills.


Those are the facts.Farming after the turn of the century quickly denuded the rich but shallow soil layer and the cedars and mesquites took over. This in turn affected the water situation greatly. The early writings of the pioneeers describe central Texas/the hill country as a veritable paradise of mostly open land and fertile soil. The cover which came later led to the burgeoning deer populations seen today.

Deer were very far and few back then. Like posted the terrain looked much different. Rainfall went much farther in grass country than in brush as it is today. If you research the record books on deer you will see that the Edwards Plateau produced some of the biggest nontypicals in the record book. Why? Habitat was the main reason back then and grazing practices. That area is and was rich in forbes and deep rooted forbes. Overgrazing removed many of the forbes and ground cover. Drought let the less desireable plants take hold. Screw eradication along with mast producing trees taking over led to a population explosion in that area. Also due to lack of predators from livestock practices. South Texas was not different back then other than it lacked rain. The areas down south were grassland praires also with only brush in the draws and drainages. Over grazing and drought led to more undesireable brush and weeds moving in. But also some great browse species took hold helping out. Stories I have heard from old timers is that due to the lack of deer in South Texas most ranchers hunted in the Hill Country back the due to the quality and amount of deer. Old time ranchers in the Hill Country talked of very fertile soils but lack of depth in them with very good seasonal rains. I think the good old days of hunting are today. Overpopulation of deer, lack of prescribed burning as a management tool, undersireable species of plants taking over that are poor quality water sucking species have turned some deer herds in a downward trend. The money to improve the habitat is not there any more with land fragmentation. Increased hunting pressure in some areas is part to blame also to help make the family farm/ranch stay alive in todays economy for areas that have lesser quality of animals.



Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: Leonardo] #2274535 04/27/11 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: Leonardo
Originally Posted By: blancobuster
Refrigeration and easy access meat at grocery stores made hunting for meat obsolete for many and the elimination of predators led to over population and destruction of forage. That's why I think deer outside of HF and strict management in Texas have declined.


I think the exact opposite. I know in my area the deer herd has improved ten fold in just the years that I have been hunting. I had the priviledge to hunt the same lease for over 20 years and in the beginning you were lucky to shoot a deer and definately wouldn't see deer every time you went out. By the time we left it wasn't uncommon to see 10 or more deer and be able to harvest a 130+ inch buck in a season.


I won't disagree at all for where you are hunting things have changed drastically for better and worse in different parts of the state. I am just speaking about where I hunt in the hill country. We see many deer, too many, and most are of poor quality. Water is scarce due to cedars taking over and overgrazing has led to destruction of native forage. Plentiful cover of crap brush means more deer survive hunting, but they are much poorer quality. On our lease there is one windmill for water to drink from but there are many creeks that are dry and only one small spring that from appearances used to be a flowing creek. It is a combination of water loss, food loss, and population explosion that has led to quality reduction in the deer herd where I hunt.


Last edited by blancobuster; 04/27/11 07:27 PM.
Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: blancobuster] #2275806 04/28/11 03:44 AM
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Actually it was the screworm that had a lot to do with the lack of deer herd density in Texas way back then.

A deer or any animal giving birth or the young fawn just born was suseptable to the worms that killed off many before they even had a chance.

I remember back in the sixties when they were dropping the steril flies and you would find those empty cardboard boxes all over the hill country.

That is when the population exploded.

It's a long read, but it explains a lot of why there wasn't many deer in Texas in the early days.

http://www.fao.org/ag/aga/agap/frg/feedback/war/u4220b/u4220b0a.htm




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Re: The Legend Of The Brady Buck [Re: stxranchman] #2276522 04/28/11 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
John Stein knows a lot about this buck also. I think he is affiliated with the Buckhorn now in San Antonio.


He was the main resource the writer used for his article, Bill Miller talked with Mr. Stein extensively. And he is the resident historian of the Buckhorn. up


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