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Managing the hill country
#1150536
01/05/10 04:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 866
redseal
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I live in kerrville and hunt my grandpa's place which is about 80 acres on upper turtle creek over the last two years i have taken 2 good hill country bucks but the young bucks seem to get shot by neighbors or something because buck numbers are decreasing... i think that anyone who hunts the hill country especially smaller lands needs to take into consideration the prospect of managing deer better i shoot 1 buck a year and they are always 5 or 6 year old deer in fact last year he was 9... i think if everyone would start managing we would see bigger and more bucks i know its hard when you think your neighbors are goin to shoot that young but nice buck you pass but that's a chance you have to take to see bigger bucks and hope that your neighbors will also let him pass now you may not shoot him when he's bigger but you will see a lot bigger bucks and everyone might get a nice one a year just some thoughts
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: redseal]
#1150562
01/05/10 04:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,693
llanite
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If you and your neighbors got together and had a biologist do a deer survey and make recommendations, I'm afraid you would find that 1 mature buck a year on your 80 acres is actually too many. It's probably closer to 1 buck per 500 acres.
"We could say they spend like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors, because the sailors are spending their own money." Ronald Reagan
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: llanite]
#1150569
01/05/10 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719
cameron00
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If you and your neighbors got together and had a biologist do a deer survey and make recommendations, I'm afraid you would find that 1 mature buck a year on your 80 acres is actually too many. It's probably closer to 1 buck per 500 acres. Depends on the place. My buddy has 85 acres right in between Llano and Gillispie Counties, and he has, at any given point in time, 20-30 deer. There are tons of deer in some of those areas. He literally has several give-away doe hunts every fall to try to reduce the population, because if he doesn't, they all starve.
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: llanite]
#1150581
01/05/10 04:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,615
MELackey
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llanite is correct. A few years ago, TPWD used to post suggested deer harvest numbers for the different areas based on survey information (daytime & spotlight surveys). For Coryell County, it was one mature buck per XXX acres, and 1 doe per XXX acres. For our 526 acres, that basically meant 1 buck and 2-3 does.
Are you willing to get together with your neighbors and agree to only kill a buck every 3rd or 4th season?
Not to get into another AR thread, but for our place, the AR's were welcomed (by us anyway) ebcause they stopped people from killing all of the small bucks before they had a chance to get big. I only kill mature, good bucks, and I killed one in 2004 and one this year. Let scores of others walk.
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: cameron00]
#1150601
01/05/10 04:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,693
llanite
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Depends on the place. My buddy has 85 acres right in between Llano and Gillispie Counties, and he has, at any given point in time, 20-30 deer. There are tons of deer in some of those areas. He literally has several give-away doe hunts every fall to try to reduce the population, because if he doesn't, they all starve.
Yep, that's why I qualified it with "probably". Deer numbers are higher in Llano and Mason counties than anywhere (a friend is getting skunked in Gillispe Co. this year). Still, we're talking about mature bucks. Our 480 acre lease in Lampasas has too many deer, but biologists are still recommending only one mature buck be taken a year and that has generally been what we've shot over the past 17 years we've been there. At the same time we've gone from a 1 buck 2 doe county, to a 5 deer AR co. Plenty of deer numbers, but I can't imagine taking 6 mature bucks per year on our 480 acres.
"We could say they spend like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors, because the sailors are spending their own money." Ronald Reagan
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: llanite]
#1150849
01/05/10 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,358
Stump_jumper
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It is very hard to generalize on a region as large as the Hill Country or even a county. Lampasas county is a good example. There are large expanses that are very open and the deer population is probably much lower in these areas. I currently hunt in NW Burnet county but have hunted in many different areas of the Hill Country. The ranch I hunt is 1100 acres and we have 10 total spots. This year we have 9 hunters and 1 guest spot. We have very good cover, feed, and are on the river. We are at the end of the road (so to speak) and surrounded by decent sized properties with fairly light pressure. We are allowed about 30 deer with a mature buck per spot. We probably we probably never take more than 5 bucks in any given year. The place has been well managed for the past 10-12 years and the members that hunt regular will probably see 3-4 mature bucks. If we shot 10 mature bucks every year it would be too many but the odds are it is not going to happen with our group.
2017 Tundra 5.7 CM 4x4 2006 Champion 2200 Bay Boat
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: Stump_jumper]
#1151830
01/06/10 02:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 866
redseal
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thanks for all the info yeah i'm trying to find out who leases the place next door we share the majority of the deer in our area and the reason i know this is because of trails and cameras i have set up on these trails goin back and forth... and i agree bout the whole i shouldn't be getting that many mature bucks a year and it hasn't always been that way just these last two years i've done my homework and the one from 08 was 9 year old and scored 133 the one from this year was 6 year old and was a 125 so i know we have the potential it's just letting the young ones walk you know just need to get the word out that with a little judgment before pulling the trigger you can improve things
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: redseal]
#1151984
01/06/10 02:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,272
7mag
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You have nailed it right on the head. Problem is very few of the neighbors will do sound mgt. The hill country is blessed with the highest concentration of deer, they just won't let them grow,
"Laugh with many, but don't trust any"
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: 7mag]
#1152049
01/06/10 03:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,693
llanite
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You have nailed it right on the head. Problem is very few of the neighbors will do sound mgt. The hill country is blessed with the highest concentration of deer, they just won't let them grow, Or looking at it from a different angle... they won't grow because of the high concentration.
"We could say they spend like drunken sailors, but that would be unfair to drunken sailors, because the sailors are spending their own money." Ronald Reagan
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: llanite]
#1152065
01/06/10 03:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,272
7mag
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The only die offs the hill country has expierenced was from lead poisining, on a yealry basis
"Laugh with many, but don't trust any"
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: 7mag]
#1152119
01/06/10 03:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,192
TexasVine
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We have a place just northeast of Fredericksburg (about 12 miles)in the hill country. The parcles of land around me go from 350 acres in size to 48 acres. My neighbor to north of me has 125 acres and leases out to 5 hunters. The neighbor to the east of me has 350 acres and leases out to 6 hunters. Well you get the picture. We have plenty of deer and some exotics, mostly Axis. Tons of does! We just don't have very many shooter bucks. The hunters to the north of me will shoot 2 year old deer with small racks. The folks on the others side will shoot young deer as well. The third side will shoot more mature bucks mostly, not always. The mentality in my area is "if I don't shoot it , the next guy will". It's extremely frustrating. I'll take a cull, doe or Axis but refuse to shoot a young buck. I have taken an 18 inch 8 point a couple of years ago but you just don't see them very often. Unfortunately the hunters (mostly from out of town) are just going to shoot what they want.
Last edited by TexasVine; 01/06/10 03:44 AM.
TexasVine
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: TexasVine]
#1152143
01/06/10 03:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,272
7mag
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I don't know if anyone can ever get the landowners and hunters on a consistent, tight mgt basis, where they will grow the big deer. It is done and I have seen it, but it is the high fence places most guys on here despise. Sounds like good mgt to me, in that part of the world.
"Laugh with many, but don't trust any"
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: 7mag]
#1152728
01/06/10 03:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719
cameron00
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TexasVine - I have a friend with a place right outside of Fredericksburg as well. He's got 350 acres and never had a problem with overhunting...until one of his neighbors broke their 50 acres into 5 10-acre "ranchitos".
He now has 5 new neighbors that each think they should be able to shoot a couple of bucks and a couple of does, and every one of them set feeders right on his fenceline. Literally, 5 feeders in a 500-yard stretch, each right on his fenceline.
He and another neighbor both high-fenced their land that bordered that property. Never even thought of doing it before, but it became an absolute necessity. The guy across the road from these "ranchitos" is also strongly considering high-fencing his property on that side.
They're about to have a fully high-fenced 50 acres between the 5 of them.
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: cameron00]
#1152817
01/06/10 03:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,071
SATX
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We have the same problem in Comal county. Homes now abut a few portions of our 600 acre lease. I hear shots all the time that are coming into our lease. Some of those places are only an acre or so in size and have no natural plants or cover left on them.
They don't even need to set up blinds. Just kick it on the back patio for a while and BOOM! I feel sorry for the guys on that side of the lease. I might be tempted to let a round off in that general vicinity if I had bullets headed in my direction.
Having said that, the lease owner just re-upped for another 5 years and were are going to have a meeting about the age of the deer that members have been taking. It's overdue and I have no problem not filling all my tags. I took only one deer this season and I was good with that based on the condition of the deer coming off of a few hard years of drought.
But whatever we decide, we will probably have to look at the fencing that abuts the housing. Might need to make it impossible for someone to shoot a deer and drag it off of the lease. Stuff like that is why lease costs keep rising.
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: SATX]
#1153204
01/06/10 06:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,358
Stump_jumper
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TexasVine,
The ranchettes and small parcels are killing that part of the country. I leased a place that was north of Hye on the Perdenales. I was a smallish place but worked because it was about a 1-1/4 long. The 2 old guys that used to own the store / post office in Hye had 2000 acres to our east that was not hunted. On the west there was 2000 acres that was leased the first 2 weeks only. The land to our south was owned by our landowner plus we had the river. To the north was a problem. It was basically a 60 acre cow pasture leased to 3 guns. The only cover was on our fence and that it were 2 of their feeders went. We used to pee in gallon jugs during bow season and then go dump it around their feeders.
2017 Tundra 5.7 CM 4x4 2006 Champion 2200 Bay Boat
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: Stump_jumper]
#1154072
01/07/10 12:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,161
Texas Proud
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The mental of a lot of guys is to fill the tags. Most feel that they are paying for their tags and they want them filled no matter what.
I'm the opposite of that. If I get a doe that's great, but I'd rather my son have the opportunity to kill the does and leave the bucks. Can't eat the antlers. Right?
When I'm invited to another buddies lease to hunt, I opt for the largest mature doe I can find. I'll sit for a couple days at different stands to see what's coming in and then go after the old mature doe. Now days I prefer to kill does over a buck. Even a mature one. I'd rather let it get older or a youth kill it if it is on its down side.
If I remember correctly they are trying to make ag exempt harder for the small ranchettes. Meaning you'll need a certain amount of acres to claim ag exempt.
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: Texas Proud]
#1154338
01/07/10 02:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,192
TexasVine
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If I remember correctly they are trying to make ag exempt harder for the small ranchettes. Meaning you'll need a certain amount of acres to claim ag exempt.
I think the minimal acrerage is 20 acres for an ag exemption.
TexasVine
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: cameron00]
#1154371
01/07/10 02:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 213
BChambers
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TexasVine - I have a friend with a place right outside of Fredericksburg as well. He's got 350 acres and never had a problem with overhunting...until one of his neighbors broke their 50 acres into 5 10-acre "ranchitos".
He now has 5 new neighbors that each think they should be able to shoot a couple of bucks and a couple of does, and every one of them set feeders right on his fenceline. Literally, 5 feeders in a 500-yard stretch, each right on his fenceline.
He and another neighbor both high-fenced their land that bordered that property. Never even thought of doing it before, but it became an absolute necessity. The guy across the road from these "ranchitos" is also strongly considering high-fencing his property on that side.
They're about to have a fully high-fenced 50 acres between the 5 of them. Now THAT is poetic justice
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: BChambers]
#1155409
01/07/10 04:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,685
AdgerC15
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i find you to be some kind of hero for killing 2 deer over 5 yo on one 80 acre plot. In fact, to even see a 6 yo let alone a 9 yo is an accomplishment IMO in most non-managed lands in the hill country of texas.
I hunt Real county and couldnt count more than half a dozen free ranging bucks ive seen on the hoof in the last 5 years. Just started a management program 3 years ago and things are substantially improving but I still get excited over ANY mature buck siting.
I do not intend to offend you, but I am simply saying you should consider yourself lucky to see this quality of deer in age and age I presume size for 80 acres in some of the most heavily hunted country in Tx.
As for the 9 yo. Did you have this deer aged by a professional? I dont mean to be over analytical but not many guys on this forum can tell you they have ever seen a 9 yo WT. Personally, I would love to see some pictures of the deer for my own personal education. It would be interesting see a deer that old and compare it to my idea of what a 9yo WT looks like.
ac
Conservation means development as much as it does protection. - Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: AdgerC15]
#1155753
01/07/10 06:28 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,358
Stump_jumper
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Texas Proud,
You are right. If you have kids it is all about the kids. I try to let mine do all the shooting and he gets the one mature buck that we are allowed. This year I passed up the best 10 point that I have ever had a decent shot at. I thought that we pretty well had him patterned. Put the son in that blind prbably 7 times afterwards and he never saw him. That is why they call it hunting.
2017 Tundra 5.7 CM 4x4 2006 Champion 2200 Bay Boat
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: AdgerC15]
#1155862
01/07/10 07:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074
Justin T
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i find you to be some kind of hero for killing 2 deer over 5 yo on one 80 acre plot. In fact, to even see a 6 yo let alone a 9 yo is an accomplishment IMO in most non-managed lands in the hill country of texas.
I hunt Real county and couldnt count more than half a dozen free ranging bucks ive seen on the hoof in the last 5 years. Just started a management program 3 years ago and things are substantially improving but I still get excited over ANY mature buck siting.
I do not intend to offend you, but I am simply saying you should consider yourself lucky to see this quality of deer in age and age I presume size for 80 acres in some of the most heavily hunted country in Tx.
As for the 9 yo. Did you have this deer aged by a professional? I dont mean to be over analytical but not many guys on this forum can tell you they have ever seen a 9 yo WT. Personally, I would love to see some pictures of the deer for my own personal education. It would be interesting see a deer that old and compare it to my idea of what a 9yo WT looks like.
ac Yeah, when they get that old, how do you tell. I've had a buck that was damn near toothless. We just wrote 7.5+ and let it be, since there is no way to actually tell.
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: Justin T]
#1155880
01/07/10 07:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,382
BenBob
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If you could get all involved parties to use game cameras when deer get done growing their horns, decide which deer you are going to shoot and which ones get a pass and then had people stick to it, you might have something. But, there will always be someone that can't follow the rules. Give pictures of shooters and non shooters to all owners and put them up in their blinds. Follow the rules and you will have better deer, but like I said, sonmeone will not do it.
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: BenBob]
#1156268
01/07/10 09:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 977
bossbowman
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If I had to guess the hill country is likely the next region of texas to get the antler restrictions, probably a few years away though.
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: bossbowman]
#1157225
01/08/10 03:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,192
TexasVine
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I nothing thing to mention in our area is the overwhelming amount of does. The hunters in my surrounding area do not shoot many does. Everyone seems to just take the bucks(young bucks). We are way overrun with the does!
Last edited by TexasVine; 01/08/10 03:35 AM.
TexasVine
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Re: Managing the hill country
[Re: TexasVine]
#1157394
01/08/10 04:22 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 866
redseal
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yeah a biologist did a test on while he was getting mounted who stopped by the taxidermist honestly when i saw him i was thinking 7 years old... but he had white and gray hair mixed in his back so it made the mount look better don't have any pics on this computer right now though... yeah it's tough but i've got about 20 acres i don't touch the only thing up there besides deer are a feeder blind and cows during the off season i hold a lot of deer up there and i'd never seen that buck before he was one smart sob... well i usually only take one maybe two deer a year just if one needs to be shot my older brother has a lease in south texas and gets 15 deer off it a year so we get our meat there.
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