They should be ashamed of themselves for that. THAT is a problem. But a man who trains weekly for years and who KNOWS he can make a clean shot at 500 yards is not the same thing.

Not at all, but I am making it plain with quotes from hunters, and the most prestigious hunting associations, that aside from gun magazines who must satisfy advertisers in order to stay in business, the dubious ethics in long range hunting and the danger it presents to hunters everywhere are widely recognized, world-wide.

"If we do not self-determine what is ethical or not - on gun ranges and in the field we shall always have the unethical, dangerous with us. Nowhere in life anywhere on earth has the free, let-it-be association between a positive and negative culture been anything other than a gradual slippage into the negative - nowhere, ever was there an instinctive or natural move towards the positive unless the positive culture made the rules, saying if you want to associate with this culture then these are the boundaries of conduct within this culture.

When the prevailing image of the negative contingent of the culture is aggression, arrogance, lack of safety, lack of ethics and good manners etc., then "those who would deny us ALL rights to hunt" WILL in time paint the whole gun and hunting community with the same brush, and punish the whole collective.

Thank God game belongs to the land owner on whose property it walks at any time and government has zero say in this resource. Ethical hunters and their associations and standards can never be "inclusive", as that included, intrinsically negative entity, very soon, due to the nature of the beast, will become the tail that will wag the dog."

Because...they can can can.....

With the equipment available today and all the stuff that's out about "Snipers", example are all the games out there about it, etc it has peaked people's interest in long range shooting. I think a lot of people simply do it for the adrenaline rush. The truth is, with the right equipment hitting something the size of a deer or elk, notice I said the size, at 1,000 yards is simply not that difficult. I am pretty much a novice when it come to LR shooting and I've hit a plate, 14x14, at 1200 yards with my semi custom rifle and out to 800 yard with my factory AR. So if I can do it then it just isn't that difficult....with the right equipment.

Now that I've said all of that...as we all know or at least most of us...shooting an animal is a lot different than shooting at paper or metal and I for one will pass on shooting a buck or bull at distance. I would just as soon put up a life size deer target and shoot that as to shoot a live deer at that distance and for me I would get plenty of satisfaction doing that vs the real thing without dealing with all the what ifs that come with making a badshot on something at that distance.

Take his deposit and send his arse home if he misses the first shot. That is really key to this whole discussion, the first shot is all that matters. If you can't walk up and put that first shot inside 6 inches your not hunting, the risk is just to high.

B&C has done more to hurt the public perception of hunting than good. The inclusion of "scores" for deer is sickening to the anti hunters. And I'm not a fan of it either.

Again, if you're not buck-naked and barehanded, ANYTHING you do while hunting is working against the odds of the animal and trying to diminish his ability to use his skills to avoid you. Why is the arbitrary line 400 yards? Anything can happen inside of that as well.

And charlesb, why is it okay to whack a varmint at long range but not a 'game' animal? Is their life really worth any less, or just in your eyes? Why is it okay to make a crappy shot on a prairie dog but not a deer? Sounds pretty unethical to me.

People romanticize deer, because they like them. Which is the same reason why some people think they have supernatural abilities in sight, smell, and hearing.

They're not nearly as intelligent as a coyote, and there are plenty of farmers that had their guts and livers.

Same story, different day. Each hunter must prove to themselves what their maximum effective distance is, and stay inside that. Chad has a good line "hunt half as far as you practice". I think that can be said for bow, or rifle. I practice with a bow at 60 yards, no way would I take a shot at a deer that far, but 30 yards is pretty comfortable. I practice with a rifle at 800 yards, every week of the year. 400 yards is an after thought, and I don't ever shoot that close on the range. 500-800 is about all I test myself on, no matter what the wind is that day.

And I don't do that "wanting" to shoot a deer or elk that far, I want them as close as possible. But I do that in preparation for hogs and coyotes. I really don't care if they're a thousand yards away, or ten, if I get a shot, I'm taking it.

The first year I was on the friend's ranch I get to mule deer hunt in, I got a grand tour on the Ranger. I saw the wide open, and realized that while glassing I could see deer at "long range". I said to Doug, "I want to follow the rules, and be a good guest, what is the maximum distance you will allow me to take a shot?" Doug said "that's up to you, don't you shoot all then time? Shoot whatever you're comfortable with." With that knowledge I hunted for a week with a primary plan of closing distance if I can, but being prepared for a long shot. I killed a buck at 50 yards. The next year I had some on glass at 200, 300, and 550 yards, and let them all walk so that they could grow some more. And each one of those were in a very low wind situation. Two of them, there would have been no way of closing distance without getting busted.

Because they are vermin, and worthless, just like hogs. That's the difference in my head anyway.

Ask a man who makes his living farming in Texas what his opinion on deer is.

I would imagine they mostly think of them the way lots of ranchers I know here in W TX think of aoudad sheep. That's the reason I've gotten to cull over 100 of the darn things over the past 15 years.

I like ford. I like chevy. You're stupid. No you're stupid.

The thread in a nutshell.

Actually it's more like, I like ford, I like chevy. Well then you are a bad person who does bad things, your parents did a poor job raising you, and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Well, knock ME over with a feather. I agree with you. I'm not sure that's ever happened before.

I don't shoot past 150 yards, but that's the impression I'm getting from the antis.

why is shooting a animal at 500 yrds bad when you can get a guide to find them for you,shoot them off a corn bucket, or in a high fence ok and call that fair hunting

Best quote of the thread. This is America and people are free to hunt how they want as long as it doesn't violate state hunting laws.

I think long range successful shots bring great satisfaction and hopefully are a consequence of a lot of hard work, practice and preperation.

With that being said, I believe that it is in the best interest of hunting that the long range shooter has taken the time to prepare and practice a long range shot versus simply taking a "Hail Mary Pass".

Lots of good responses here.

My simple thoughts are that, yes, there is a interest for it. But more importantly, not every guide should then jump into trying to be a market maker. Basically, if the guide doesn't have the skill then the hunt should not be offered. There could be situations where a hunter needs talked down from a shot but how is an unskilled guide to know. It's simple business - don't try to conduct business that you have no business (expertise) in.