Mouflon opinion

Whats thoughts and opinions on this guy

He's a beauty!!!

Aré you doing hunts for mouflon?

Price ?

Good looking Sheep.

He is a nice Ram, I can't tell enough from this Pic to say for sure one way or the other if He is Pure (if that is what You are asking) , although His Horns flaring that fast (right out of the Curl) is not desired by most "Mouflon purist" and many would say He is not pure because of it, but there is a strain of Mouflon that tend to do that here in the States, they were imported from the Frankfurt Germany Zoo by a rather wealthy Gentleman, in the Czech Republic there are a number of Mouflon that flare like Him....SCI states that the tips must not be the widest part of the Horn EXCEPT UNDER SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES...I always figured the "special circumstances" was when a Ram hits 40" He has no place to grow but out! I wouldn't breed to the Ram pictured....there it is, You asked for it, my Opinion that is!

Very true. If he wants him taken it should be soon. Other wise he will be Corsican looking .

X2

Great looking ram and I agree with Casey and Don about the horns flaring out being an unusual Mouflon trait but you do see it in Europe.

What do you estimate his horn length at?

Another reason to shoot him soon is he will likely start brooming those horn tips off or breaking one.

Beautiful ram, but as already mentioned, the tips of the horns are not what I like in a mouflon. It looks more like a corsican type of thing then a true mouflon.

AGREED X3



If anyone is ever in doubt check with Hilonesome... that's my opinion.

We've heard from two of the best Mouflon breeders in Texas, in Ricky Hunt and Hilonesome, I would pay attention. The biggest thing is that, because there has been a lot of crossbreeding of sheep in Texas, the breed standards for Mouflon, exclude characteristics that do occur in Europe. If you were to have that ram mounted and told people it was shot in the Czech Republic people would accept it without question.

Learned some things that I was not aware of in this thread. Thanks.

I would love to hunt a mouflon of this caliber

Dear Red Cloud, If interested and you want to learn more, be sure and visit the following link Hilonesome Mouflon

Pay particular attention to the colors, markings, saddle patch, summer coat, winter coat , (horn development to age structure) etc., because combined correctly they make up a mouflon.


Good Hunting

Not related to this thread, but a friend has some Urials that look kind of like this mouflon and I'm not sure they are pure or not. Does a pure urial have a white saddle patch like a pure mouflon? Their horns on their rams look thin to me. There just isn't any mass. They get pretty long, but when I look at pictures of urials that I admire, the mass of their horns is a big part of what I like.

Eddie, I haven't seen any "pure" Transcaspian Urials with saddle patches. They tend to have tan body and the classic white chest although I have read/heard that some Transcaspians have some black in the chest. As far as Afhan Urials go, I have seen pics of some in Texas that are advertised as Afghan Urials and they have the saddle but not the heavy black mane.

So my take is that if your friend has rams that have saddles and heavy black manes then they are probably not pure urials.

Just to add to this thread as an additional FYI, here are some pics of Stumburg rams from the Patio ranch. They are a cross between a European Mouflon and an Argali. Not the horn shape and coloring.

Tony those Stumbergs are an amazing Cross, always thought that I would like to put a Transcaspian Urial Ram on some Stumberg Females!

Casey,
Someone already did that.....Summit Whitetails.....they called them Smithberg Rams. Really handsome animals. Here are a few pics of some 3 1/2 year old rams from about a year ago. Body coloring is a lot like a Transcaspian but they do not have the pure white bib. I saw some pictures of an older ram....VERY impressive and looked very much like a Transcaspian except for the neck not being pure white. I have been told by several people that whatever you cross with a Stumberg ends up being a very hardy animal. A breeder told me that the reason for this is because Louis Stumburg did not inoculate his original hybrid sheep and they ended up being very hardy as a result. Whatever the story, they are handsome animals.

I know Thompson had to go to stumburg genetics to get his Hill country big horn rams to become more hardy. They kept dieing on him so he needed some hardy genetics.
He has one now that is 3/4 big horn and 1/4 mouflon with no saddle patch. He is awesome but very rough on ewes always ramming them so he has to let him in on a limited basis.

Here is his Texas Hill Country Breeder. He told me it's about equal parts bighorn, Stumburg and Urial



Here is the Urial Ram he uses in his breeding program.....notice the black in his chest. Thompson told me he thinks it is a transcaspian Urial with some Stumburg in it's pedigree.

[img]https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/...ff6a9821442_ful[/img]

Tony, have You seen this Ram, listed as Transcaspian Urial on WLB, definitely a Hybrid, wondering if He is not crossed with Stumberg? looks like Argali Horns to Me?

[img]https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/...70b803bbaeb_ful[/img]

Sorry for the side track.

SCI is listing them as Hybrid Sheep

I for one would like to know the "truth" behind the breeding.

Casey,
I had not seen that picture before or the ram. As you stated, definitely a hybrid and very interesting looking....you can see the Transcaspian in the white neck and horns and the Mouflon white saddle patch. It's a heck of a ram regardless of what his pedigree is. I do know that years ago the Patio ranch did experiment with crossing Stumbergs with Corsicans and Mouflons. Attached is a pic of a ram that I was told is 45" and is a Transcaspian Urial x European Mouflon (25%). I do not know any other details but it was shot a while ago on the Patio Ranch and the ram looks a lot like the one in the picture.




SheepHunter is right about SCI. They started a new category about a year ago for hybrids rams to address some of the Big Horn cross rams, Stumburgs and some Red Sheep that were not close to that 50/50 Transcaspian Urial x Armenian Mouflon.

They make awesome Rams for sure! I bought a small Group of 3/4 to 7/8ths Urial and 1/4 to 1/8th Mouflon from Rickey Hunt a few years ago, was gonna start Breeding them on a Lease Place(wanted to keep them away from the Mouflon) then lost the Lease a few Months later and had to sell them.
SheepHunter, I know We got off Topic, but original Poster never even responded to any of the Comments, so I figure what the Heck!

Hilonesome: Let's talk about any sheep anytime.

About 10 years after I graduated from Texas A&M I contacted the University to find out more about their Desert Sheep program. During this time period the University was cross breeding Desert bighorn to Mouflon ewes and studying parasites. (short version). They offered to sell me the Bighorn/mouflon/cross rams because they were only interested in the ewes. I decided not to get into the sheep business, but always wondered if they ever sold the rams to any ranches.

Anytime I hunt the exotic sheep in Texas I enjoy learning from the landowner more about their actual herds development.

These Hybrids have begun to spike some interest.... and as already posted in pictures they can produce some itchy trigger finger rams.
I'm glad some organization are working to keep these rams separated for recording purposes.

PS. I see a big ram in Tony's future

Ha! I believe You are right about Tony! It would be very interesting to see where those Rams went!

Waiting for them to grow up into something special......maybe this Fall

There is only a few hybrid bighorn I like. Which are ones that look more like a bighorn then anything else.


I have some pictures of a few that resemble them quite a bit.

I have seen some awesome Dall sheep that have a high % of Alaskan Dall in them.

That's Timbo Thompson's sheep and is was right there at 45" I put my hands on it and measured it.

Pretty cool Hybrid

I hunted the ranch yesterday. I got to see and take pictures of this ram... He is amazing and I would have dropped him in his tracks had he not already been spoken for. He is a HAWG!!!... My 11 days in Texas were very productive. Finished up with a nice 29 x 30 Axis on my buddies place. Two nice 26+ inch Aoudads on two separate places and a nice 39 x 34 Oryx cow on my last stop home... Until next year I'll just be biting at the bit for my yearly trip to Texas... Thanks for a great hunt J.... I really enjoyed it.

post pictures

He are a few pics. Plus a ground check pic of my Aoudad.

Awesome pics!
I'll have some harvest pictures next weekend to post of the big sheep!

Congrats on your trophies bub

Cool I'll be watching for pics.. I've taken 6 Mouflon over the years and he is a nice one. It will be nice to see what he is when you put a tape to him.

Great pics....thanks for sharing

Good luck