My ram placed 2nd...

in the Records of Exotics. Anybody have experience with this? I got a letter last year congratulating me but didn't pay much attention to it. This just came in the mail today. Hoax or real?

I am assuming that 1- You did shoot a ram and 2- You had someone score it for the ROE. That being the case, why not just contact Thompson and ask him.

That man is impossible to get a hold of. I did shoot a ram, it was measured and submitted.

I would think that the letter would be much more detailed and personal if it were only going out to ten people.

I looks like the type of letter that would be mailed to hundreds of people.

Congrats on your Ram regardless of how the letter looks!

That was my thought and concern

Form letter +hard to get hold of = RED FLAG, in my opinion.

Looks like a poor edition/execution of a startup idea to me, especially the handwritten part on the bottom for the description. I also don't know why the hunter and not the outfitter, would be inclined to buy the plaque for the "ranch"?

Did a little research, evidently the Record of Exotics has Ben around since 1976.

http://www.recordsofexotics.info

May just be poor execution then IDK. Not even sure how I got the idea it was fairly "new"? Having been around that long, you'd think you could contact someone in charge to find out what is legit or not. Then it would come down to if you feel $70 some odd bucks, is worth having the plaque and book, might be neat hanging beside the mount.

At least it isn't a "participation trophy"

Remember the Who's Who of High School Seniors books? Looks like the same kind of scam promotion.

Congratulations on your ram however.

RIGHT!, love the ones that write in, "It will get better", "Hang in there, HS last 8 years for many folks" LOL

I don't know Thompson Temple but have read a lot of controversial posts about him here. Lots more bad than good. Red flag for me.

Can we see a picture of your ram

My question is "Mouflon Type". I thought there were categories for Corsican or Mouflon?

Been around a long time, Congrats on your Ram

got the same letter on two of my rams from last year , yes it is ligit . my taxidermist checked it out for me , it could have been a little more personal , but you cant expect much these days out of anything , its all about cost.

Thompsons communication skills leave a little to be desired. But he is legit. You gotta figure he is sending out 10 letters per category and probably nearly 20 categories. Not as prestigious as sci but still nice to keep aa record of your hunt.
Worth the $70? That's up to you. I am satisfied with the decal and a photo collage.
He is a pretty genuine guy and I think he funnels all money from the roe back into the program as he sure aint living in the Ritz.

Do not see "Mouflon Type" on website above? #2 is a great ram, I would just inquire if the ram is #2 Corsican or Mouflon.

Got ahold of him today. Had a long conversation as usual. Yeah his place leaves little to be desired. He divinely has a passion for what he does, and a passion for Mexico! Going to make a trip down there next spring and hopefully knock down a Corsican with my pistol.

Yeah I've seen his passion for Mexico.

That's his legitimate letter. Thompson pretty much runs that ROE all by himself. I don't think there is a board or committee or anything like what TGR or SCI does. He keeps things simple,cheap and easy to manage in his view to keep his cost down.

Yes it seems like a top ten animal should be a bit more personal but I know TGR does a typed letter as well. TGR does send a certificate with the typed letter along with a packet of papers that talk about the awards banquet and such. I don't think ROE does that but I believe they used to decades ago.

Remember its not just one animal Thompson has to type this up for and this is every year. Would you want to hand write or type in the animal for every single species and for every method of kill? I visited Thompson Temple years ago and he told me he did all this stuff himself. I sure wouldn't. There is tons of different species entered each year and many with a different method of take. That's why the wording of that first sentence is structured that way so that it can cover multiple species and method of takes.

Show us the ram already!!

I'm just saying....I was solicited to buy the Boone And Crockett record book in the same manner. "Your Trophy will be listed in the newest version of the B&C record book" send 55.99 plus shipping and handling to this address to get your copy of the record book showing your Trophy and its measurements.My name is in #8 font. I keep a magnifying glass nearby because anyone over the age of 40 can't see the tiny writing.

At the end of the day it is American Capitalism at its finest...

Thank you for an informative and classy response Curtis. Unless an outfitter is an outright rip off there is no need to bad mouth ones character. I personally didn't realize the ROE thing was such a small operation. But that isn't saying much. There is plenty I'm ignorant of.

I know there are varying opinions on Temple's "hunting" operation. And those who know me know I'm not a fan of the goats and sheep. I'm not going there but some folks I know have and had a good shoot. He isn't ripping anyone off and many more people go there and have a great time, take an animal they like and are happy with the experience than post negative things here. In fact a large number of the people I know who hunt don't even know about hunting forums and couldn't care less about joining one much less our opinions.

Nice to see someone who is held in respect in that industry speak a kind word in Mr. Temple's behalf. Thanx again Curtis.

Oh, and congrats on your ram BigPig.

I personally have no problem with TT or ROE. I only questioned "Mouflon Type". There is no such category. I was hopeful a picture might clarify. Mouflon... Corsican.....

"ROE Category"

I'll move on.

He has apparently expanded the mouflon category to allow for some cross breeding most likely to increase size (as he is known for). I think the main requirement is that the tips of the horns are not the widest point of the spread thus creating the "heart" shaped horn appearance mouflon are known forfor.

Your welcome.

Curtis, you are correct. He has a passion for what he does, he's not living high on the hog, but he is enjoying his living. Anyways, im going to order the plaque just because I liked talking to Thompson, and this may be the only "record book" worthy animal I kill.

So this is a look a like Mouflon, Mouflon?

the tail length should be the main requirement not the Horn Tips, not saying Horn Tips aren't important but I have seen a few large Mouflon (have owned one as well) that at around 40" their Horn Tips have to grow somewhere! either begin to flare out or into their Head.

Highlonesome, Great points. The reason for my post was ROE listing the sheep as "Second Place "Mouflon Type".
Therefore I suggested the OP get clarification concerning the award. Pictures as suggested would have helped.




I am hopeful the statement where ROE and/or TT is allowing cross bred "Mouflon Type" based on horn style to be entered as Pure Mouflon is an incorrect statement. Because it's sad to say some outfitters misrepresent "Mouflon" and such a liberal policy IMO only supports misrepresentation of one of the most beautiful sheep. Also I hope this is never the case with any hunters record book trophy.

Once again congratulations to the OP, I am just trying to provide what I hoped was some helpful information.

They compile the scores to sell books.

I was just speculating.

If it scored high enough, why wouldn't they give you the award? Seems odd that you would have to pay for it. Sounds a lot like those "Who's who" in high school, college, business, etc. books people try to get you to buy.

Best wishes that you have more safe and successful hunts.

Some observations:

1. The letter states "Mouflon Type Ram" not "Mouflon Ram" so there seems to be an effort to make a distinction that this animal was NOT a Mouflon ram. As an aside, SCI has now opened up a hybrid category for sheep since there are many hybrids now being bred/shot.

2. Most record keeping organizations charge you a fee to enter a trophy (SCI and B&C) then issue you a certificate BUT NONE of them give you a plague for free. So if you want a plaque or award from say SCI you will pay a few hundred bucks.

3. Hilonesome is correct.... a tail no more than about 4" is probably more critical than horn shape.

I wonder if it was simply a poor choice of wording on his part. If other letters issued were to say:
Texas Dall Type
Corsican Type
Merino Type
...noone would get offended. I think the qualifications for a mouflon to be proven pure (or mostly pure) should be higher than say, a Corsican but that would be on the scorer to prove.
It's real hard not to get some type of cross breed on an operation like TT 'a so I guess it is his party, his rules.
I assume he scored it since you alluded to hunting on his place and he sure knows his rams (pure or otherwise) so either he made a poor wording choice or gave your ram the benefit of the doubt as far as purity to get you to qualify into a category.
Either way, be very proud of your accomplishment. My poor Ole bronze kills this year will be listed way down on the bottom and you are sitting at the adults table!

well said !!

Wait a minute guys...he did not call it a Mouflon...he called it a "Mouflon Type." So MY impression is that he went out of his was to distinguish this from a pure Mouflon. I have seen several HONEST outfitter on-line refer to rams as Mouflon type because they know they are hybrids and not pure Mouflons. I think we are making much to do about nothing. The OP shot a ram that apparently scored well enough to be 2nd place in this year's ROE as a Mouflon Type (not a Mouflon...not a Corscican...not a Texas Dall ..not a Black Hawaiian). He wanted to know if the letter was legit...it was! So why not just let it go at that instead of guessing at what might or might not be. If Thompson called it a Mouflon Type I would assume he used that term specifically because the animal was not a pure Mouflon and he wanted to distinguish it as such.

Tony, I was of your opinion initially.
I think part of the question, for me, stems from the fact that there is no Moulton Type scoresheet. Yes, the OP's original question was answered. Are we not free to continue to discuss the subject? I am new to exotics and rams in particular as well as new to various scoring systems and clubs so if my comments are seen as a hijack, I'll move on.

Classic Rocks

See the attached link

http://www.recordsofexotics.info/medal-classifications.html

The ROE scoring (measurements taken) for all sheep is the same. Notice that the "Basic Sheep Form" includes multiple species and there doesn't appear to be a place to indicate what type of ram it is.

To try and get some closure here I just emailed Thompson in order to get some clarification, e,g. is Mouflon type a new category or is Mouflon type the same as Mouflon.

As an aside, it would be nice if the OP posted a picture of his ram. He never really mentioned whether his ram was a Mouflon or a Mouflon cross.

On the right about half way down is the link for the Mouflon form. It is different from the general sheep form in that it denotes that the tips of the horns must not be the greatest spread measurement. It is the only indicator of a Mouflon and should (as some have mentioned) indicate a tail length requirement. He intentionally created a separate form for Mouflon but did not use the same nomenclature on the letter to OP. Possibly by mistake as if he took the time to create a separation between General Sheep and Mouflon, it stands to reason that if he were to create a 3rd category of Mouflon Type (indicating cross bread sheep) he would have created a new scoring sheet for it. Again we are all just speculating for the pure enjoyment of forum life.

Why don't we see what Thompson says in his response to my email...rather than keep guessing.

A more interesting debate would be whether the comment on the ROE Mouflon Form that states " Tip to tip spread cannot be the greatest spread to qualify for this category" is appropriate since most of the sheep breeders on this forum will tell you that as a Mouflon gets old iot is not at all uncommon for the tips to flair out. go look at the rams they kill in Europe which on average are much older animals than are typically killed here in the states.

Agreed!

I emailed Thompson Temple and asked "Is Mouflon Type the same as Mouflon and have you now broadened what a Mouflon is, or is Mouflon Type a separate category that you now are recognizing since there are so many hybrids?"


His reply
"Yes. I started a separate category to take care of those harvesting a non pure mouflon."

So case closed..."Mouflon Type" is a new category. Here is a pic of him with a Mouflon type ram

Good work Tony!