Waterfowl pup

Ok guys I am looking to get a lab hopefully this summer. I need some good advice on selecting a lab. This includes where to get one. This will be my first pup and I will train it on my own. Hopefully!

How far are you willing to travel?

Price range?

Are you wanting a pup with Hunt test or field trial pedigree?

What is your expectation of the dog?

Make sure parents have health clearances.

I just went through this process and learned a lot!

I put a deposit down on a pup from Washita Retrievers.

Kanati Kennels in Brownwoid has a nice litter on the way and is expecting another in the spring.

Check them out.

Me and buddy trained his black lab ourselves he read several books and we probably put 200 plus hours in on working with the dog and I can say that he is no field trial dog but gets the job done every time we take him out and my buddy only paid $450 for him. It's not how much you spend on a pup but how much time you put in to training it.

As long as the pup is healthy the rest doesn't matter as much, especially if you're training him on your own. I got our pup off cl and "trained" him myself. Sometimes I feel sorry for him for having an ignorant teacher, but he fetches birds, doesn't break, and stays calm while birds are working so overall I'm really happy with him.

Hunters Creek Retrievers in Houston produces excellent family/gun dogs. I purchased one of his dogs as my first hunting dog and trained him myself. On Saturday my 2 year old black lab ran a 150 yard open water blind on a crippled goose and brought back that 15 pound live bird into the wind, and is currently asleep in my lap. These dogs truly have on and off switches. John Tate, the owner of the operation, truly knows his dogs.

Doesnt really matter the background or bloodline of the dog, the owner makes the dog, of any breed for that matter. You have to be stern and loving as well, but you can't let em get away with anything whatsoever when they're in that soak up knowledge stage of their life. The first 6 months is absolutely crucial, no bad habits learned and you won't have to work to fix anything. I worked with my lab 3-4 times a day from when she was about 8 weeks until she was a year old. Can't overdue a session, always end on a good note. You can get a dog off the street and work it enough an you'll see what their capable of. I've seen $3000 dogs that I wouldn't want to be in the blind with if you paid me to. Buddy of mine was given a lab at about 2 years old and she was a fat couch dog, and within 6 month she was an absolute machine, if you have the time and patience it doesn't matter where you get the dog from. Just train em right, if your gonna leave the dog locked up for 8 hrs at a time then don't expect much out of it. Just depends on what you want, if you want a kennel dog that gets fired up like a rocket when it's time to go then you have to find a way to harness that and control it or get more of a submissive relaxed home dog that your baby's can crawl all over and get the job done when it's time to hunt. Just train em right and it doesn't matter much where you get em from

To say that genetics don't matter is simply foolish. Your best bet is picking a dog who has parents that are good hunters with the characteristics that you want. Then make a plan and stick to it as far as how you will train the dog but be flexible as to when the dog will be proficient. Also, if your getting a puppy in the summer it would most likely be the following season that you would have a hunting dog. It's a big commitment but well worth it.

Still can't get over, an owner makes a dog and genetics don't matter.......

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You stack your odds of getting a great pup by getting one that has great parents.

Lol I didn't mean that genetics didn't matter, I should have stated that better, of course it helps but it's honestly about 20% of what that dogs potential will be, the other 80 is what the owner does. I'm just saying I've seen dogs that have come off the street that will out perform field trial champs, I've trained plenty of dogs and used to work field trials outside of rockport. I've seen amazing dogs work, you know why those dogs are awesome, because they are trained and worked every day all day long, not because what his dam or sire did 5 years ago, you can buy the most expensive dog with the best paperwork out there but if you don't put the time in then it doesn't matter, that's all I was saying.

As far as hunting the first season, Just depends how much you work with em like I said, you get that dog living for retrieving they'll be ready to go 6 months.






That's my dog at like 10-12 weeks, sitting on hand signals next to me and staying until I sent her and putting the bird in hand. She hunted 3-4 times a week at 6 months old with 20 plus retrieves a hunt. You want a machine you gotta build it

^^^^what he said...

Iron Spike Kennels.....hands down. Lots of guys on forum have her dogs. Best dog I have owned. NE of Houston. http://www.ironspikekennels.com/

WOW at some of the responses.

I've been down both roads. I bought my first lab from a back yard breeder. Dog was great and a life long friend. Still miss him to this day, but I'd say I got very lucky with that purchase. His hips went out, and I had to have him put to sleep. Not something I ever want to go thru again!

Buying a puppy from a proven line with certain traits isn't 100% a sure thing, but it greatly reduces the variables of just picking one off craig's list with the #1 thing being the health of the dog. There's nothing worse in this world short of losing a family member than loosing a retriever. It's a bond most people who don't hunt will never understand and a commitment. I'd hate to know I shortened that experience of ownership with hip and eye issues in my dog that could have been avoided with buying a quality puppy. That's first and foremost in my mind. You also can't teach drive in a dog. They either have it or they don't. Sure labs are smart enough that you can get them to retrieve if they don't have it, but again you greatly reduce this chance if you pick from a quality litter. Puppies are like children. They are going to have qualities their parents have. So here's a question:

If you were the GM of an NFL team and had to burn a draft pick on a 6 month child, would you:
A) pick the child from a proven Hall of Fame NFL player who's wife was an Olympic champion or
B) from two little people you meet on the street with zero knowledge of their background?

I know. Extreme example, but I think we both agree the odds of having an NFL player from one of the examples far exceeds the other although neither is 100%.


If you are wanting a pure meat/hunting dog, I'd find at the very least an HRCH sire and dam that have both hip and eye guarantees. Just my .02!

As far as hunting the first season, Just depends how much you work with em like I said, you get that dog living for retrieving they'll be ready to go 6 months.


That's my dog at like 10-12 weeks, sitting on hand signals next to me and staying until I sent her and putting the bird in hand. She hunted 3-4 times a week at 6 months old with 20 plus retrieves a hunt. You want a machine you gotta build it [/quote]

Hunting a pup at 6 moths is the best way to develop bad habits and start the process for health issues to develop later in life. The dogs brain and body is not fully developed at that time. I see it with guys who bring their dogs hunting and I really see it in horses that are pushed. I never hunt a dog until he is solid 1 year old and never break a colt until it's solid two, although on ranch horses we wait until three

Agree w/Cactusflyr. This is my IronSpike pup Jack in his 3rd season and he is an animal w/retrieves. Also has an excellent off switch in the house!

Here is Scout on her first hunt during teal season, note the restraint for her first hunt. Hasn't broken once in three years. The link is to an incredible 100-120 yard mark of a pintail shot on a passing shot. 10 mos old at the time, and yes, she can walk on water.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0JCCQR3BHI

Damn dat goose has some big [censored] feet

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x3...and don't get tied up in the whole field trial champion thing. Often counter productive. FT dogs are bred to run straight lines and follow commands. This often equates to breeding the nose out of the dog so they do not smell something and deviate. You want a hunting dog with a nose.

Hunted over two field trial champion Brittanys two years ago. My two GSP's outperformed them hands down....like 8 coveys to one, and singles, not a one by the Brits. Never hunted over a field trial retriever, but the concept is the same

Hunting a pup at 6 moths is the best way to develop bad habits and start the process for health issues to develop later in life. The dogs brain and body is not fully developed at that time. I see it with guys who bring their dogs hunting and I really see it in horses that are pushed. I never hunt a dog until he is solid 1 year old and never break a colt until it's solid two, although on ranch horses we wait until three [/quote]

Well I hunt about 4-5 times a week with customers with my dog and I can honestly say that there hasn't been a hunt where customers either asked if the dog was for sale or if she was fixed so I guess I did something right I dunno, she could pass a master hunter trial if my 3 year old was leading her. Just make em live to fetch ducks and it's easy

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I would also add Labs are one of the most popular breeds out there- lots of BAD breeding taking place. I would especially get a lab from a very reputable breeder

You are correct in that FT retrievers are trained to run in straight lines and mark by sight at extremely long distances but they still must use their noses. If a FC or AFC can mark 100+ yard triples and finish them off then you can bet they are probably one heck of a dog in the duck blind as well.

One example of how a FT retriever must have an excellent nose would be the fact that in a field trial situation the dog must differentiate where countless other birds have fallen in the same area vs the new bird.

And yes I do fully agree with everyone in getting a dog from a reputable breeder but the main thing I was just trying to say is that just because you buy an expensive dog with champion parents doesn't mean that your pup is going to be the same, you have to dedicate yourself to that dog in the early stages and it'll turn out just fine

Increase odds of success w champion bloodline or great hunting ability - that's a fact. My little Daisy was in training for 4.5 months- trainer only had three during the entire time. There was a dog there that would run off during training- finally had to sent her home. He said she was possessed.

This guy is one of the top English Cocker trainers in country. Runs field trials all the time. My point is there are dogs w crappy bloodlines that God couldn't even train- bad product

Yes I agree for the umteenth time, I wouldn't buy a dog without a good background, but If your gonna pay for some else to train "your" dog then it really doesn't matter right, why not just go buy a two year old lab that's ready to do whatever you tell it to, kinda defeats the whole puppy thing IMO if your just gonna send them off

Not everyone has the time or access to grounds to train a dog. Sending your dog off for 4.5 months is a lot different than buying a two year old finished dog. It'll cost you 3-5k or more for a finished 2 year old dog.

I like to train my own dogs but wouldn't fault anyone for sending their dog off for some training, especially for things like force fetch which are hard to do completely and correctly.

Well that's fine and I don't knock anyone for it either but you definately miss that initial bond of why were sitting here in the woods together you know. I kill the birds you find em and bring em back, I wouldn't ever send a dog off to learn that from someone else, if I didn't have time for a dog I just wouldn't get one but that's me, anyone can tell a trained dog commands but that initial bond is what I'm talking about

That is fine and dandy but most really nice retrievers don't care who is sending them after the mark or bird. They are born and live to retrieve.

To the OP there is some good and not so good advice in this thread. Having a good dog takes time, commitment, and money. There are a number of different combinations that can get you to your end goal. I say "goal" because you really need to have an idea of where you and your pup want to end up. The sky is the limit. None of this happens without genetics. You can get a great dog out of a not so great litter and a dud out of any of them. Well bred litters drastically increase your odds.

There are really well bred, affordable litters all over Texas and US. Shipping a pup through air or on ground isn't a huge deal. Don't let distance play a huge role in the litter you pick. I have had great luck telling the breeder exactly what I want out of a dog. A reputable breeder has a vested interest in making sure your happy with the dog. Plus they have typically spent hours upon hours with the litter but most people think they can tell more in fifteen minutes of interaction.

If your not stuck on a puppy there can be significant value in a started dog. By that time you usually have a good idea on what the dog is and what it can be. Personality, drive, gun shy, ect...