Mud buddy 35 hp not running so good, what you think she needs?

Been running the blue sta-bil in it from the start. Have had it for a year now, just under 50 hrs. I did not take it out April thru August, but I started it once a month, but when I started it in September, it was probably a month and 1 or 2 weeks, it was then it started not running so good. It would spitter sput, but it runs, and after I took her out and ran her a few times she started running better. It would not idle, for the first time yesterday I tried to turn the idle up, 1 minute video below, you can see it idles, but rpms drop to 1,000, then go to 1500...

Carburetor messed up from ethanol?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/F...zpsiik27ymi.mp4

Don't know what is wrong but there are places you can get gas without ethanol. Might be worth buying a few gas cans to keep it on hand.

That is exactly what it is. Remove your carb from top of motor and drop the bowl from the bottom of it. Thoroughly clean the bowl and your pilot (idle) and main jets. Be careful not to disturb the position of the float when reassembling. Also, always disconnect fuel line from motor and run gas completely out when motor will sit for a while. Ethanol is da debil.

Have you dumped the old gas, sure you have already, but if not start with new gas. If you let it sit up for a month or longer it will separate unless you use an additive. I always run gas with ethanol and have no issues but I never let mine sit for more than two weeks without running it. I do not have a water separator on mine either like some guys have.
Remember it is nothing more than a lawnmower engine, My lawnmower goes 4 months sitting up with never being used and runs fine when I start it up in the spring however I never leave gas in it thru the winter.
Might want to check your plugs and valve lash, once everything is fine there you may have a clogged jet in the carb from it sitting up so long. You can either clean the carb and jets or buy a new take off carb from Boat Dr. or Mudbuddy(BPS) for around $80 which would be easier and maybe cheaper than working on yours.
But remember if you let it sit up this could happen again, cranking them once a month and using them will prevent most of these issues.

If you want someone to fix it for you send me a PM and I will give you a name of someone local.

best advice for any boat motor, mud motor or outboard

Yup that's carb issue.. have you done a full service on it yet also? air filter, fuel filter, oil/oilfilter. spark plugs? also id drain the tank, flush the lines and clean the carb. even with stabil that gas is only good for about 30days

Which fuel pump do you have? On mine the fuel pump gave me all kinds of crazy until I went all electric, bypassing the mechanical. Life was all good from then on. Then problem with the mud boats is fuel is up front, 18 to 20 feet of fuel line and 3 feet of rise to the motor. I should say, the problem with mine and a lot of others. Once I did that I was good to go and even gained 2 mph to boot.

I found a place that I buy no alcohol gasoline has in 5 gallon containers. It is expensive at at 8bucks a gallon. I treat it with blue stabil and use only that for chainsaws and all other small engines.

Which fuel pump do you have? On mine the fuel pumpgave me all kinds of crazy until I went all electric, bypassing the mechanical. Life was all good from then on. Then problem with the mud boats is fuel is up front, 18 to 20 feet of fuel line and 3 feet of rise to the motor. I should say, the problem with mine and a lot of others. Once I did that I was good to go and even gained 2 mph to boot.

I have always heard to run the fuel out but I don't know the effectiveness of this practice. You can't run all the fuel out to make a dry storage situation. If you can't run it all out then why bother.

I found a place that I buy no alcohol has in 5 gallon containers. It is expensive at at 8 bucks a gallon. I treat it with blue stabil and use only that for chainsaws and all other small engines. I store all my equipment with a full tank.

it runs it out of the jet which is usually the main problem imo.. now if you do this and then tilt the motor at a different angle it could then soak the jet back in gas

When you did that wal what did you do with the vacuum port?

We do it on some old style gravity fed tractors that had air issues

I have put over 125 hours on my most recent motor, Vanguard, the last 2 seasons and have never had a fuel problem, my last motor was a Kohler and it never had fuel problems either, never ran a water separator on either.
The problem is lack of use, if you let any motor sit up regardless of fuel there will be some issues, ethanol just makes the issue worse because it can separate. Also you may have to deal with carbon buildup in the carb, key to these motors is running them often, at least crank them once a month and do not use gas older than a month old if you are not going to run them in the summer.

Same thing happens with guys in the spring at the local boat ramps with outboards, they let those boats sit all winter long then have problems when they try to run them in the spring. Clogged carbs, bad gas, rotted fuel lines from ethanol, and all other issues.

Yup sitting up is a killer to all engines

Guy were do you get your gas? Your 9hp engine was doing the same thing right? Id run a bottle of the 4stroke non ethanol gas through that sucker when you get it runnin right

Seafoam

I would try this first for sure.

What type of choke system is on this?

Yeah, it was my 7hp Subaru-Robin EX21, on my Momarsh. That was last year, I tried to clean it myself, it leaked like crazy when I put it back on, took it to a lawn mower shop in Garland, it leaked at little gas then and still does a little now (not as much, it got better over the year), but runs great. Hunted it this weekend. Love hunting that boat.

I made a schedule to start both my boats every month over the offseason, and went a little longer than a month on the mud buddy, and that messed it up. Live and learn, I thought since a ran the sta-bil in it that it would be ok, but I guess not.

yeah.. gas sucks my little 9hp brig has a metal tank and is even rusting now from gas sitting and building moisture.. I been draining it after every time I use it.. getting a new tank soon.

Time for a Mikuni.

Oh, and the video does not work for me.

Think I will try that, heard good things about that stuff. Use that instead of sta-bil, right?

fixed it.

Are you giving it any throttle in the video or is correcting itself?

Idling on its own, not touching the throttle.

I left the old pump in place and just ran new fuel lines.

Is your boat still under warranty?

Been just under 1 year, so probably so. Don't think it helps though with fuel related issues, learned that with my other motor.

If the fuel pump is failing I would suspect it would be under warranty. I am not so quick to jump on a "Fuel gone bad" theory right now. The main reason is I know you have had blue stabil in it the whole time. The second reason is your boat is doing exactly what mine was doing. Mine started like that and then progressed to where it would lose rpms and then just choke itself all the way out. It was a long slow death for that fuel pump. It got weaker and weaker over time, to where I didn't notice the depleting performance. When I put the pump on it was an "Its alive" type of moment.

I don't know if the factory has changed these pumps since I ran a mud motor. The pump was never designed for that kind of head. Head meaning the vacuum needed to draw the fuel from the tank, through a filter and up to the engine. In the application on my boat it was way too much and wore the pump completely out. That problem started at about 130 hours and became severe at 150. I got on MMT and they all said "Read this thread Dumb @$$". I didn't believe it but tried it. Done deal! The boat came alive and I never had an issue.

Also anyone considering an electric pump, put two on when you do. If one fails you need only hit a switch and you're back in business.

Easy way to troubleshoot a fuel pump; one gallon of fuel gravity fed to carburetor.

Easy way to tell if carburetor; runs dam good with choke on.

This man should be the brains of this outfit! He is talking some sense.

I do not think it is the fuel pump, gravity does feed fuel to the motor, and you really only notice a difference (the surging) when it is ideling. My 7hp last year when it got messed up, it was surging bad, full throttle it was surging. So the mudbuddy has a small case of the surging. I'm run it this weekend with some seafoam and see how she does. Got my fingers crossed.

Where is your fuel tank?

You just solved my four wheeler problem.

Are you troubleshooting with fuel tank elevated higher than engine? If the tank is still in the front of your boat, you're not troubleshooting as has been recommended.

Up front.

I have not tried that yet.

You're killing me.

Why? I haven't done anything yet, been working all week and been busy after work. But my next thing I'm going to do is burn a tank of gas with seafoam in it and see if that fixes it. I may try that idea to see if it is the fuel pump first if it is not too much trouble, but have not even looked at it yet.

If you just hold out a little bit longer, Wal will get to a point where he can't stand it anymore and he'll come over and fix it for ya.

Ha ha, I really wish I lived close to Wayne.

Really appreciate all the feedback.

You get it fixed up?

Nope, messed with it a little bit but ran out of time. Momarsh running like a sewing machine, so she got the nod this weekend. I'm going to take it out scouting and run a tank of seafoam thru it and see how that works, if that does not solve the issue I'll dusccoect the fuel line and test to see if it is the fuel pump as reccomended, but I'm not messing with that if I don't have to. I'll let you guys know how it works out.

That damn boat needs a duck lease...

Mohunter's hunting buddy saw this, he does not post on here, but he text me and said motor runs fine, put the idle back (that's messing it up), and check for the idle spring. That seems to be the problem. When I put the idle back, it runs great , it just will not stay idling, which was my original problem. Video below I'm not touching the throttle, but when it starts to die, I reach around back and tighten it up acting like the spring would do...Seems to be the issue, or at least a possible solution. He said on his go-devil, he had the spring, his mudd buddy it does not, so he put a spring on it. His motor is just like mine. I just find it strange it idled fine before without the spring, but all of a sudden now it needs it after 50 hours?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/F...zpsskohugoc.mp4

Yesterday had a lawnmower mechanic tell me it could be the idle jet is clogged.

Is your's a cdi engine?

I'm betting jet. Did you try to seafoam?

Yeah pretty sure cdi, and I have not tried the seafoam, that might be next. It runs good enough for scouting next couple weekends and running some sea foam through it, might as well try that. It is running better, I can get it to idle by turning up the idle screw, but when I do that it does not run as good, when I punch it and let off gas, takes a while for rpms to drop. Vs if I have idle set low (so low it will not idle), when I punch it and let off, RPM's come down fast, and revs better.

I was told by Gatortail that the cdi engines do not need the idle spring. Not sure what would be different on a mudbuddy.

How does it run with the choke on?

Think I tried that, it did not run with the choke on, or not good. I may test that again.

If I give it choke and leave it on it dies fast. But when idling, and rpms start to drop, below 1000, what it has been doing is keep dropping till it dies about 600 rpm. But if I pull choke and push back in real fast, before it dies, it makes it recover and it starts idling again above 1000.

Time to clean your carb!

Might as well lash your valves while your at it, .005-.006

Seafoam, or turning a screw, or putting a spring on there, I like those ideas better.

Wait, mohunter has a buddy?!

I've been running some seafoam through my 4 wheeler in lieu of pulling the carb off. First time I've used seafoam and it doesn't seem to be doing much.

Just to clarify...you ask what everyone thinks it needs then listen to no one?

Yep!

Not true, just not doing "everything" eveyone says. So you are still convinced it's the fuel pump Wayne? I may test that just to appease you, I have not had anyone else tell me they think it is the fuel pump. It's under 2 year waranty, I may take it in somewhere. I doubt I will mess with taking apart and cleaning the carburetor, although I think that is the most likely issue. Apparently I can get a brand new one for $85.

A carb gasket is like 6 bucks.. I have a Makuni carb so it's like $400 so cleaning once a year is much cheaper. Every two years I replace the jets and gaskets

I have talked to a few different brigs mechanics, most likely carb, they said sta-bil is not good, does not work. Seafoam is better, but not as good as BC3 (mechanic in a bottle), told me to run 3oz in 6 gal tank, he said after 2 gallons I should see improvement, so I'm going to try and see how it works,

Warranty does not cover fuel related issues.

If it was fuel pump, there would be issues at full throttle as well, but it runs fine full throttle, just will not idle good.

I had a fuel pump problem on my prodrive that would not show up at full throttle...reason being is there is more vaccuum on full throttle to get the fuel pressure up than at idle. I'm not saying you have a fuel pump issue but I'm saying it isn't safe to rule it out based 100% on the statement above.

So your motor was only starved for fuel at idle? That is the only issue I'm having. And I can make it idle by turning up the idle, but this creates another issue, when I rev it, takes long time for the RPMs to drop, runs better with idle setting lower. I'm betting it is the idle jet.

I need to get another fuel line if I'm going to test if it is the fuel pump.

Have you drained the bowl on the carb. I would start there. You'll know if that works by what's in it. Then I would pull the carb and clean it. Takes all of twenty minutes. If that doesn't work check the fuel line for leaks or if it's blocked somewhere. It is a fuel problem and can be fixed in all of an hour max.

Walter

Here is the deal with the fuel pump as I understand it, it just pumps fuel into the carb bowl. When idle drops and it is about to die, it is easily recovered by just giving it a little throttle. If it was a fuel pump issue, I would guess that giving it a little throttle in this example would not stop it from dying because there is no gas in the bowl.

It could just be a weak fuel pump. Does not have enough pressure during idle but when throttle up there is vacum so it'll still run. Just replaced one on a Briggs motor last week with only 400 hours on it.

Walter

I vote pay someone to fix it

That is what I did.

However...I know it idled like crap and would run fine under throttle. The guy replaced the fuel pump, my fuel line and removed the quick disconnect I had on the tank. I don't know which actually fixed the problem but I dropped him a couple hundred and was happy ever after

It was some guy that worked in his garage that was a small motor genius...he either moved or isn't doing it anymore and I don't have his number. I asked one of the lawn guys that mowed who worked on their mowers. That was how I found him.

But it will idle, if I turn the idle up, or giving a little gas to hold at 1k RPMs. Plus this fuel pump only has 50 hrs on it.

Plano Power Equipment...Call and set up an appointment They can tell you pretty quick what is wrong, problem solved so we can get back to the private vs public debate

Sell it.

They do not have room to work on it.m, as with many of these brig shops But I found several shops, authorized brigs shops, that will work on it. I went to the brigs website printed off all the brigs shops around Dallas, and I called them all.

But waranty will not cover carb gunk issue, key wording is "manufacture defects" is what they cover, so dirty carb is not a manufacture defect.

I'm gonna try and fix it myself, if can't fix it I'll take it to a shop.

And get a lease?

Lol

Or stick with your little boat. I'll buy your mudbuddy for cheap seeing as it's broken.

I take mine there. Just have to call them and set up an appointment.

I called them today, they said they would not take it, even by appointment. Said they would have to work on it in the parking lot and they can't do it. Most of these lawn mower shops have worked on these mud boats before, after working on a few they make a policy to not work on them any more.

I may try and call them again, but I have talked to them more than once about it. But I found some other shops, but that place does have a good reputation.

There isn't a place better than Plano power. Glen runs a good store. But my mechanic is damn good with small engines and big. If I had the time and my shop wasn't full id say bring it over.

Walter

Did you not have the same problem with your little motor?

Yep, sure did, on my Momarsh 7.5hp, but the issue was much worse. $35 to rebuild carb, Garland lawmower shop, had to take motor off the boat or they would not work on it. But left the lower unit on it, they were reluctant to work on it.

Mine was there last Tuesday. They did look at it in the parking lot. I believe the guy's name was Andy.

Guy you should win an award or something for getting so many people to contribute to your threads, two threads with a total of 22 pages, wow.

The trick is to draw Judd in to post on your thread, just mention duck susage or something and he come out of the woodwork, but once he posts it goes viral.

only thing Judd likes more than hunting private is duck sausage

I gotta admit....I'm a pretty big deal

Guy & garrett come get you some duck sausage

I got a hunsky it was the quick connect

I've already told you waaaaay back when you first posted this..remove carb, drop bowl and clean it all, especially your pilot (idle jet)
Takes all of 30 minutes. I give it a 2% chance it is your fuel pump and that's only because of Murphys Law. Quit jacking around and start turning wrenchs. Waaay over thinking this. And yes your motor is CDI.

Guy. Get on YouTube and find a demonstration of cleaning a carb. I think you think it's harder than it really is.

I got a hunsky on too

you might need to just go and repo that boat, Guy doesn't deserve it

Heard of a lot of problems with those.

Guy, you can come practice on my 4 wheeler carb.

MM gas rules simply put:

1) quik-connect...get rid of it

2) ALWAYS carry a primer bulb..in case your fuel pump craps out or you break an inlet and/or outlet port off when busting thru brush. This will help you at least "mainline" fuel into your carb and you'll get home. You can thank me later for that one.

3) Seafoam or Stabil I've used both/...prefer Seafoam. But they both do the job

4) Add HEET to fuel when running on days below 32 degrees...carb icing is a biotch

5) change your fuel line every 2-3 years..ethanol eats the lining of it and it will break down into fine particles that will find their waypast your filter and into your bowl and make your float stick. As well as trash up your idle jet

6) If you are running an internally mod'd motor where your compression has been bumped up..ALWAYS run at least 93 octane.

7) Don't let gas "sit" more than a month...it will separate. Dispose of it and get fresh stuff

8) if you use a water separator remember to change the canister before each season

9) And for the love of God, quit calling me from the lake when you motor starts cutting out because you forgot to loosen the vent on your gas can. LOL Happens more than ya'll think

Foosh quit being lazy azz and clean that damn carb!!!

Seriously, last year took my carb off my 7hp longtail and tried to clean it, put it back on, started it and gas squirted everywhere, had to take it to a lawn mower shop.

But I will give it another shot, first I'm going to try that mechanic in a bottle, had 2 lawn mower shops tell me it is the best.

All there is on the carb is 1 hide clamp, that releases the carb from the motor
4 small Philips screws on the bottom, that releases the bowl from the carb
1 gasket and you can reuse it if your careful
Unscrew the two jets, they just screw in and out.
Clean em with break clean and the bowl as well
Blow everything out with a compressor and reassemble

I bet it runs well after that

If u haven't just cleaned mine lasts week I would do a video for ya

No need to appease me, it is your motor and your trip back to the ramp. To answer your question, I don't know if it is your pump or not. I was relaying my experience on my last motor. I had the exact same symptoms you describe. We never got around to your pump. Is it mechanical or is it electric. Mine was mechanical. The alcohol will destroy all the rubber. The mechanical pump started a slow death at less than 50 hours. It made it extremely difficult to diagnose because it was such a slow death. I have not kept up with the carb issues and don't know if they (Factory) has recognized the problem and fixed it or not. If they have, then carry on. I switched to twin electric pumps and my life was much happier afterwards. If one pump quit, then you just flipped a switch and you got a new pump up and running.

It ran better than when it was new. I would imagine that was because it took so much head pressure to bring fuel that far and that high. I would also imagine the combination between the head pressure ( caused by length and height of fuel travel) and the alcohol wearing out the pump just made the motor suffer.

After I went 100% Sta-Bil I have yet to fave a fuel related issue. I have 4 Stihl chainsaws and a weedeater. I went to houston and bought 5 gallons of gasoline with no alcohol. I treated it with Sta-Bil. I replaced the carbs and fuel lines on all of these little engines. The only gas allowed in them is the stabilized alcohol free gas. We shall see the results in a few years.

save your breath Wal, its falling on death ears, my next suggestion is to hook it up and drag it over to Cody's house for a lesson in mechanics

Bring it by here and ill get it done

Thanks for the offer Nav, but I think I can handle this, but foosh may need your help with his 4 wheeler.

this thread has been going for 2.5wks and from what I can tell no movement yet, you should take Nav up on his offer

I don't know if this helps but on my old mud buddy It would try to die at wot. I would have to let off and idle for a couple minutes and take back off. At idle it ran really bad for a short bit then go fine. I replaced everything fule related and even new carb. After a couple months I came across a thread about to much oil. Come to find out I some how got the wrong dip stick and I had too much oil. About half a quart to 3/4. Drained it and got a new stick and it hasn't missed a beat. The guy I sold it to is still running it.
This probably isn't your problem but it might help someone.

Had new fuel line installed last year, Sierra marine cost guard approved, from what I was told, it basically lasts forever.

You can always just use the trolling motor.

I require a month test ride after fixing all 4wheelers and boats

If you can talk Guy into it, I am going to College Station to visit my daughter this weekend, I will offer to pull his boat down there and drop it off at your house on the way. He can make arrangements to pick it up in a month if he wants.

Sounds like that motorcycle you tried to rebuild way back

I wonder if anyone has mentioned to Guy yet that he needs to clean the carb?

Kinda like the Truman Show ain't it

4 wheeler seems to be coming around a bit.

I still have not cleaned my carb.

This past weekend I was out west dove hunting, weekend before I scouted lake X and ran about 4 gal of gas thru it treated with that "mechanic in a bottle", and it still will not idle on its own. So looks like I might have to break down and pull that carb off and clean it.

Other than it not idling, it runs great. I have been more focused on getting my lowrance GPS working. It just stopped working, so I took back to BPS, they plug it in and it worked fine, must be my wiring, so checked fuse was fine, connections looked fine, but I re-did that (soldered this time), still did not work. So went and bought a $35 electrical tester, stuck probe in end of plug, and it is getting power, 12.7 volts. Talked to BPS again, they said they had another customer come in, same issue. Power coming out end of plug, but for some reason not connecting with GPS. So trying to get lowrance to replace the cable ($35 if I have to buy it), it is 1 month out of warranty, I'm gonna be pissed if they do not replace it. Sent info to them today, need to give them 24 hrs to review, calling them tomorrow.

My 4 wheeler now has a flat. Half way out into a field and notice the steering is off. Figured it was just low and made it back no problem. Got to house and decide to put some air in it and hear hissing. Somehow I managed to load it on the trailer with the hole right on top. Looks like one of the plugs gave out with the low pressure. GF is bringing a plug kit home.

Actually I ran 3 gal. Scouted again today, after 1 more gal she started runnng much better, ran couple more gal of that stuff, now she is purr'n like a kitten.

Where's the video?

There was actually three holes. Mesquite or barbed-wire. Fixed her up, took her out the next day and it was low by the time we left. Aired up again and haven't had a problem.