Scopes made in Japan

I went and talked to a dealer today at the extravaganza and he told me that scopes from Japan are the better ones these days. I wasn't in a position to argue cause I simply don't know. I've been shooting leupold and vortex for a while and haven't even paid attention to where they are manufactured. Can some one shed some light on this?

Most scope companies have their top tier scopes made in Japan. The LOW plant makes Vortex Razor, Bushnell Elite Tactical, SWFA SS and a bunch more higher-end scopes. Japanese glass quality and production methods are top notch.

Interesting. I guess I can't keep up lol I thought Germany was on top

best optical sand

A customer service rep. at Leupold told me they get their glass from Japan

That was my next question is where leupold gets their glass from for their higher end scopes.

LOW makes some great lenses,but Schott is still the standard to go by.

If you only care about pretty glass, then yes, Germany is on top. If you want excellent glass and great mechanics and tracking, then Germany has a shtload of catching up to do.

All I want is good low light tough and tracks perfect those are usually my top 3 that I go on then I'll pick and choose

What's your budget?

Haven't nailed down a budget yet. I've got 2 pending deals but if all works out I'll be about $1000

I don't think Schmidt & Bender has much catching up to do. Tangent Theta may be the only one better and they're using German glass also. The best have German glass still

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Back to the OP, for your budget I would look at a Burris XTR II or a Gen 2 PST. They're equal in optical quality. The Burris has a 34mm tube compared to the Gen 2 PSTs 30mm tube, so you would get more elevation travel from the Burris. I love the EBR-2C reticle in my Gen 2 PSTs, but the Burris has a really nice reticle too. The XTR comes with super nice lens covers. I paid an extra $45 for the lens caps for my Gen 2s. The zero stops on the Gen 2 PST is the best in its price range. You really can't go wrong with either. Unless you find a Tangent Theta for a grand....

Zeiss has a bad azz scope made in Japan under $250.00.....
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEISS-Conquest-6-24x50AO-Illuminated-Hunting-Rifle-Scope-HD-Sight-FREE-Mount-/272575484243?epid=596889640&hash=item3f76c3d153:g:7VYAAOSwN2VZUh5s

Haven't got to mess with a gen 2 PST yet but I bet these mentioned are the two best around your budget. I missed the $1k comment and focused on the "best" being made in Japan. For sure some good glass from there. My scope glass is Japanese best I know (Leopold Mark6 and NF NXS) and they're good but not close to "best"

I've been looking at scopes for awhile. For the money I would look into the pst 2 and one that just caught my attention at the hunting show was the Tract optics. I was highly impressed by the new company. Not crazy about the reticle choices but the glass was fantastic in the top end. Top end had a terrible gray color though.

Their 3x9 is probably the new best $300 is scope in my opinion for a straight hunting scope in that power. Kinda like the old zeiss conquest line before they crapped out and made the terra line.

This x2. Top of the heap is Ziess Hendsolt followed by TT and Schmidt. The Razors are typically solid but I've seen more fail than S&B and I've shot around a fairly equal amount. The glass in the razor are very inconsistent imo but that being said they offer a huge bang for the buck.

If you can live with a pretty basic mildot reticle, weaver has a 6-30 that's made by LOW in Japan.
It's on sale at matchezss for $749. https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-super-slam-tactical-rifle-scope-6-30x56mm-34mm.html

I guess y'all know something the professional shooters don't know.

As long as its quality they shoot what their sponsors give them or pay them to use. Vortex sponsor a lot along with having a solid Razor gen 2. Wonder what that would look like if they all had to buy their own and money didn't matter? That's something I'd be interested in seeing numbers on

I'm more interested to know why a shooter would leave a product if it was the best tool to help them win. Looks like a bunch of shooters have abandoned S&B in the last few years. Maybe they have some catching up to do.

No new products. Not spending sponsorship money like others.

With the scopes in that list it's splitting hairs on what's best and gets very personal. Not a wrong choice in the top 4 so go with who offers you more. Be cool to see them bring new stuff but it would be out of my $ range for sure

Yet the top a majority of the top 10 current standings run german glass. Heck the mpa match that literally just ended 1-3 were german being 2 khales and a Schmidt. At the okie match I shot today there were schmidt outnumbered razor 2-1.

Is it because people are not wanting a 48 oz scope?

Kahles are made in Austria. So there's one German manufacturer that's making a capable scope for PRS. I personally think Swarovski has the best glass in earth. With their unmatched optical quality, why aren't they dominating precision matches? I bet there's more competition shooters running scopes manufactured at the LOW plant than the entire country of Germany.

Money.

Why do you think Kevin Van Dam fishes a Nitro, or Rory Mcilroy plays Nike?

Isn't Kahles owned by Swarovski?

Not comparable. Those guys are making millions to pimp their sponsors. Show me one PRS shooter that makes real money endorsing a scope.

Hell if I know. Their website doesn't indicate it. Just that every Kahles scope is made under the same roof in Austria.

Close enough it doesn't matter as both are steps above anything low makes except maybe march. Schmidt priced themselves out of the game but are working their way back. Low scopes cost a good bit less so you're going to see more. Downsides are glass quality and qc. If in a heavy mirage boil the European glass stands out by leaps and bounds.

Yes they are and the khales will soon be rebranded a swaro according to the reps.

That makes me really want to look through a Kahles. I love Swaro glass.

They aren't the same level. Each has their highs and lows.

Cabelas in Allen has a SB and a Kahles in the case. I didn't play with them long but he kahles was pretty dang good

I'm just saying. Unless the difference is night and day, people are gonna use what's free. I know a guide who fishes the FLW Tour and uses Garmin graphs. He used to use Lowrance exclusively before he was sponsored. I can't imagine he believes the Garmin is the best. But it's free and he makes a few bucks and it's good enough to still be competitive. I would assume that's how most of the PRS shooters feel. I don't have a dog in the fight, but to believe people are making equipment decisions 100% based on the quality of the equipment is a bit naive IMHO.

There's no scope company in prs giving shooters optics. If they are sponsored there are incentives in discount below what most can pay but that's about it. Only exception would possibly be athlon but I've only ever seen one in person and it would have to be free for me to take it.

most popular does not mean the best

I am not disagreeing with you nor trying to change topics.
But are you 100% sure of this statement or only in a 200 mile radius?
And how are you certain?

Fortunate enough to shoot with some of the top sponsored shooters in the 400mile radius and they are more than willing to share intel.

The only exception could possibly team gap and their bushy elites as they are in pretty deep with them. Not sure if it would be bushy donating or gap paying for them. Only other person who might get a scope free is Shannon Kay and khales but then again he designed 2 or more of their reticles.

I was gonna bring this up too. I shoot with a PRS guy occasionally and i was surprised to find out he has to pay for his scopes. And he finished in the top 10 last season. If they're not giving free gear to the top 10, they're not giving free gear to anyone. So it's not comparable to a Bassmaster Elite pro or PGA Tour pro that have companies throwing tons of money and free gear at them. There's more incentive for a PRS shooter to use whatever they feel will help them hit targets since they're buying their own equipment.

If that's true, then I agree my comparison isn't valid. I have a much better idea of how the golf and fishing sponsorships work than the shooting ones. And in golf and fishing, you use the equipment made by whoever gives you the most money.

I know what you mean. I love Bassmaster and PGA golf too.

Know why there's so many Razors on that list?

Because the Razor guys have one on their rifle, and one in the truck as a back-up for break downs.

That's why I'm gonna buy 3 more Gen 2 PSTs to keep in the truck. Im hoping 1 out of 5 will be good enough to use.

You disappoint me.

You know me better than that. Your ATACR has me looking at scopes a little different now. I think I'd rather have 1 $3k scope than 3 $1k scopes.

I'd just like one $1k scope...

I started out with this one a couple years ago. It got me to 1000 yards with no problem.

Now you're talking.

Same as me with rifles. I don't have a stack of mediocre rifles, I've got a few really great ones. And with great scopes it is easy to run one scope per two rifles.

Then buy an SS 5-20X HD.

I've had the same one for 5 years. It's shot, or fired +/-10,000 rounds, on my rifles, and loaned out. It has never been sent in! Looks beat to hell with anodizing missing, scratches, and turret labels that are stained, and it's still working perfect
It is an old friend I call "ole reliable".

After having high end glass and being able to cut mirage when most others can't I doubt I can go back.

You can't.

I use the focus knob a whole lot, to see mirage. This new ATACR has made me have to lose a habit, which is constantly adjusting focus for distance. It can be clear at 200 yards, and be clear all the way to 600, on the same setting. When I want to see mirage, I've got to great a large error on the focus knob in order to make mirage appear. Good problem to have, though.

At the entire okie match sunday I think I touched my parallax twice with targets from 300-1060.

Well with all this name dropping like s&b vortex and all the other ones how come the leupold vx5hd and vx6hd aren't listed? I guess I should've started out that this is going on a Remington 700 ss 5r 308 and I want to shoot deer as far as the caliber will allow me if needed and I want to shoot some long distance just for fun not competitively. I say $1000 cause I plan on dropping $200-300 on mounts and rings. I just like leupold but I'm not brand loyal just like the luck I've had with them and keep going back

Dang, somebody here actually competes ...HUMMMMMMM

That makes it really nice

What reticle and turrets do those Leupolds have?

Turrets are the CDS ZL2 and I haven't narrowed down which reticle I'm going with on this one but I've got the windplex in a Vx3i and Had the varmint reticle

Only MOA options. For around the same money (1700-1900) as a vx6hd you can find a Mark6 and get mil and a 34mm tube. I believe vx5hd come in under 1k but not familiar with the differences and why so much different

Only leupy I'd entertain with long range and dialing involved would be a mk8 and that wiuld likely be a tubb reticle equipped.

If I were to do some long range competition then yes I'd be looking at the mark series but it's going on a deer hunting rifle and varmint rifle that I'd like to be able to play around for fun and shoot targets out past 500 yards

I'd be concerned dialing with a hunting optic from a company with a sketchy at best track record.

Well I haven't done much research on how good/bad the turrets work all I can say is the 2 I've had worked good for what I did with them. My list of wants and needs don't really see eye to eye. I've really came down to I know I want something that is very good in low light situations and I want something that's simple to use and not going to be frustrating. Other than that atleast 30mm tube 50mm obj and atleast a 15x. That's really what I've narrowed it down to and I was think with the $1000 price mark the vx5hd would fit the bill. With that being said I'm not a scope guru I've had my fair share of them but I don't know the latest and greatest of what's out there

I posted an answer back? They have the CDS ZL2 turrets and I haven't narrowed down a reticle yet

Nightforce SHV 5-20 second focal plane might be a good one for you or
Nightforce SHV F1 4-14 first focal plane. Both around 1k

Chances are if you're only going to dial and shoot long range on occasion it'll be fine. Dialing and leupold don't really have a great track record.

So that's Custom Dial System?
I have no idea what a ZL2 is.

To your previous question as to why Leupold isn't in the game. They're over priced, less reliable, and with worse features than the others we've talked about.

The CDS (custom dial system) is built by leupold off the gun and ammo you shoot. It's a automatic BDC basically. The zL1 allows you to make a full revolution out to 700-800 yards then it goes back to zero and locks when you get there so you know it's back to zero. The ZL2 allows you to go out to 1400-1600 yards and make two revolutions on the turret and won't lock until your back at your zero.

I've been shooting and hunting VX6's for almost 3 years now, CDS and all. I will admit I am more of a casual turret twister, but mine have been dead nuts reliable during this time, and they have the most user friendly eyebox of any variable scope on the planet, and I've gotten behind loads of different ones. Especially at higher mags.

I will say that if I spun the dials multiple times per day, I'd go the SWFA or NF route, depending on how much I wanted to spend.

I find this Jap vs German scope/glass thing entertaining to say the least. There are Schott glass facilities in China, Japan, and many other countries. They are also not the only ones who know how to make premium glass. All you have to do is peek through a Kowa Prominar or Nikon EDG spotter and see for yourself. Nikon also makes the finest camera lenses on the planet, and have for many years. To say that Euro glass is much superior to Jap glass is a huge stretch, especially nowadays.

I know what the CDS is. It's a dumbed down 1/4 MOA, with different labels.

Here's the trouble with it. In order to get dials perfect, MV and BC has to be exact. What chronograph did you use to report to Leupold? Is it accurate?

What BC did did you report? Did the bullet manufacturer give accurate data?

What environmental conditions did you set the turret up for? Is that the only environmental conditions you will ever shoot it? If it is not, then the dials will be wrong, beyond 500 yards, very often.

With a Mil or MOA based turret the end user can adjust as needed, based on the environmental conditions at the time of the shot.

And by the way, gravity is the easy part, wind is the trick. That's where the proper reticle comes into play, and for wind holds, Mil is far and away easier to deal with.

I just bumped a thread showing an alternative.

I got behind David Tubb kowa at a match and wasn't overly blown away. Keep in mind he runs like a fixed 27x long eye relief eye piece. Swaro spotters and slc binos best pretty much anything I've been behind. The army amu nikon image stabilization binos were pretty nice but my understanding was not overly available but I've not looked.

Rifle scopes are something completely different and the euro dominte still if you get behind them. Some jap scopes are there too but a majority aren't. I'll agree schott isn't end all be all but theres a good chance it'll be tough to find problems if in a quality product.

You obviously have to shoot and verify before making the dial. Same goes with verifying a mil/mil setup.

Get behind a Kowa 883/884 and you will see the light.......It also depends on what you mean when you say "euro dominate still". If your talking optical quality alone, you may be right. If you're talking about absolute mechanical reliability, not so much. Nightforce (Jap) is the king.

How are you going to verify, when Leupold is making the dial, several states away? Let them build it, ship it, charge $100, a guy tries to verify and something is wrong. Then what, ship it back and have them make a new one?

I'm well aware of verification of Mil or MOA. And often something does not line up. That's where adjustments can be made and the end user can get dialed in perfect. I wouldn't bet on Leupold being able to do the same, especially beyond 500 yards.

So what's night force's glass in all three lines.

In my case, over the past 3 years, you'd be wrong.

Evidently it is my imagination that elevation needs adjustment based on environtment. I have no idea how I hit those pieces of steel out to a mile. Must have been God that willed them in.

I will watch for Leupold CDS turrets to show up in PRS. They are clearly the right way. And we have been doing it the wrong way.

Loving my ATACR. Best glass I've ever spent time behind.

CDS are hunting scopes. They also will make a straight MOA turret instead of load specific if you want

That said I wanted mil so with a Mark6 with low profile turrets now that most of their tracking bugs have been worked through.

Hunting scopes, competition scopes, doesn't matter. Distance is distance.

In fact, keeping a bullet in the vitals of anything smaller than an elk at 600+ is more difficult that hitting a 1 1/2 MOA, or 2 MOA piece of steel at 600+.

Get behind a Kowa 883/884 and you will see the light.......It also depends on what you mean when you say "euro dominate still". If your talking optical quality alone, you may be right. If you're talking about absolute mechanical reliability, not so much. Nightforce (Jap) is the king. [/quot0e]

Can't say what model his was. It was nice don't get me wrong but nothing about it made me say wow.


Nf is no better or worse than S&B PM II, Stiener M series or Hendsolt (3 main euro rugged optics).

My personal nf never failed me but it didn't have near the rugged built like a tank feel my premier has either. That being said not all nf are japan either and most are assembled stateside.

Varys between models

I only mentioned it in response to waiting for them to show up in PRS. Very limited options with them and MOA only. Quite a few people have excellent luck with them anyway

That was a jab from me. He's just going to disagree with me every chance he gets. Doesn't matter if he means it or not.

My point was, it is simple fact that adjustments HAVE to be made, based on environment, beyond 500 yards. This happens on my range, throughout the year. Cold air is thick air, bullets drop more. Hot air is thin air, bullets drop less.

Then get in the truck and drive 250 miles NW, and it's a whole new ballgame. Higher elevation, and thinner air.

Last month I got there at 5 pm, checked zero at 100, and consulted the ballistic calculator for 1000 yards. First round hit, same at 1100 yards, and 1350 yards. Had I performed the exact same exercise at 6 am, the next morning there would have been a different set of corrections, no doubt about it.

Oh ok didn't know that haha

I definitely agree with needing a turret you can make changes with. If I ever got a vx6 for a hunting rifle it would be a plain MOA turret and not "custom"

Hopefully once my 6.5saum is done I'll get to come shoot and pick your brain.

Scroll down to "Mils versus MOA"


http://www.precisionriflehunters.com/blog/

Evidently that went over the fireman's head. He obviously missed the posts where I've repeatedly said that for constant twisting of turrets, NF is the deal.

These make it easy, they work great, and they're tough. It's not near as difficult as the experts here think it is.

http://customturretsystems.com/

Also, to say I disagree with FJG's posts just for the sake of disagreeing is erroneous, as you have to give a schittt what someone says to do so, and in his case I don't.

It's pretty simple inside of 400 or so yards if you know all your particulars (ie true bc, velocity and site offset) and can be fine farther if you know twist direction and enviromentals. Tubb's reticle is essentially a bdc but a well thoughtout and designed one.

I missed nothing.

You claim yours has worked every time beyond 500. I call Unless you shoot the exact same location, in the exact same conditions every single shot. Physics are physics, no matter what you want to believe otherwise. And by the way, I watch bullets go down range 52 weeks a year and record data from it. So just because you want to disagree, doesnt mean you are right. At least not here in the real world.

Your previous actions around here, prove otherwise.

More

I can take what you say and divide it by 2...then it will be close. You've got a B&C ego though. Congrats.

Still maintaining being a tool. Congrats.

This whole thread is funny. Ive shot, and placed matches shooting a 200 dollar sightmark on a factory gun, Shot and placed a different match with a different factory gun, shooting factory loads in a caliber no one shoots, with a cheap Vortex Crossfire2 scope. Last weekend I shot a over a mile and made first hit on 5th round with a crappy Vortex HS-T SFP scope.

I literally crack the F up when I read 6 pages of people using their scope as a crutch.

And, as Jeremy knows, the TOP shooters in PRS are shooting Vortex. Are they the best glass? Nah, Best I have looked through has been Premier, AKA Tangent Theta. To PRS guys, its about the sponsor.

Friend of mine was sponsored by US Optics. He had so much trouble he sent the scopes in for the second time and advised them he did not want them back.

S & B sent him a scope.

I wouldn't say "all about the sponsor", the scopes HAVE to work.

I've not met one shoter who got a scope for free unless it was pulled from a prize table. They might not have paid full price but they did pay something.

I was sponsored by Vortex, they gave me any scope I wanted. I said No Thanks, your optics suk !!!

But, but, haven't you been impressed by their warranty and knowing that if a Vortex fails on your lifetime hunt that when you return home you can get a new one? Or after flying to NC for a match, prepaying for motel and car rental, that after dropping out of the match and watching on the sidelines you will still be smiling knowing your problem will be resolved when you return home and you will have the fun of sighting in your new/rebuilt Vortex in time for your next match or hunt? Number 1 choice of THF posters.

Exactly why I purchased a Night Force.

I had a Vortex Viper PST, and had to send it in.

Now I have a Vortex Razor spotter, and will be sending it in, tomorrow.

Both have let dirt inside them.

My gen 1 razor went down at heatstroke last year along with 3 gen 2 that I heard about.

If you didn't have to lay on the dirt to shoot, your equipment wouldn't need cleaning all the time... maybe the dirt came from trying to wipe all the mud off the lens and you ground it in past the seals. Good camera stores sell little high quality brushes to clean glass. Didn't Ramball or Chickendude tell you not to use your 02 tanks to blow your equipment clean....

JG, you do know I am joshing ?

I'm sure that's exactly how it went down, Buzz.

Why I don't own any of their rifle scopes anymore.

I paid for reliability.