What power scope do I want for .223?

Don't need a 23x100 or anything crazy but I want a dedicated high power scope for my AR.

What's high power?

How far do you want to shoot?

What's your budget?

^yep

14,15,18 x is about right

AR a 2x10 or 12 is aight

Whatever the max effective range is (550?), and about a grand.

I like Leupold scopes and already use a couple VX3's.

Forget Leupold then. To hit accurately and consistenly that far is well over $1k.

Bushy Elite

SS

Vortex Viper PST

Those are quickly what comes to mind in that price range, Mil/ Mil FFP. . Many are under budget.

Do you want to shoot very small targets at 500 or steel plates?
If the latter you don't need but a good 1-4.
What about close range shooting fast?

Basically, what are you going to use the rifle for?

10-14

I had a 12 on a savage model 12 .223 that really fit it well

I have a 1-4 Burris XTR and a SS 3-9 mil/mil on my AR's. I like them both. The 1-4 is more for competition, and the 3-9 is for basic shooting and hunting.

I want to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of this rifle. I have an Aimpoint already for close up. I'd like to be able to take head shots on pigs far away.

I've been using a 2.5x8 scope between this and my 6.8.

I don't want to sound like a jackass. But here it goes.

Medium range(4-700 yards) head shots on a pig with a 223 ar15 sounds like a recipe for failure. Add in the want for high magnification sounds even worse.

I recommend a reasonable magnification scope around 12 power. I also recommend lots of range time on 1/2 moa steel out to all ranges you plan on hunting. You will gain an appreciation for how hard of a shot that is.

Long range head shots do sound a bit much. BUT...if that's what you want to do, or try to do, you will need a scope capable of real precision. The long range guys on the forum can point you in the right direction for a turreted FFP scope. Bring money. Gonna cost you big. And the high dollar range finder will be needed. And a really good flashlight for tracking would be a good addition too. Gonna need that.

And then there are the needed upgrades to your rifle, and I hope you reload.

The rifle will do it and I want a scope that allow it. I'm not saying I know I can right now since I haven't tried. The farthest I've taken game is about 175 from the kneeling. I don't think a longer spot from an actual rest or sticks is out of the realm of possibility.

Thanks for the details. I do reload and my rifle is currently a .2 moa weapon with a 2.5x8 scope. I do plan on upgrading the trigger to a Geissele from the decent Timney. I really can't think of anything else to upgrade.

I was being a bit snotty. Sorry about that. Still, the difficulty of a 700 yard head shot on a pig is considerable. If I had the intention of doing that, I'd need the rifle and the ability to shoot 0.5 MOA at 700 yards. And I would need a Leica RF to determine the range when I saw the pig. My 260 might be good enough, but my scope isn't. I'd need one of the serious long range guys to help me get set up. And am I even good enough to make the shot? I'm not the best at reading the wind. Anyway, good luck to ya.

I have taken 2 head shots on a pig at a reasonable range with an AR in 223. One at ~180 yards, and one about 300. Both were good first shots and did not anchor the pig, but allowed for follow up shots, that were not very effective either. Three things that should not go together with a 223- long range, head shots, and pigs. If I am pig hunting, especially at "long range", the last caliber I want is a 223. The NRA defines long range beyond 600 yards, and I do as well. So, your long range may be different from my "long range". But 200-300 yards is not long range.

If I had an AR that averaged LESS than .250 (1/4 inch) groups I would leave the trigger as is.

DStroud, we are on the internet. Pretty much everyone shoots 1/4 inch groups on the internet.

Just thinking out loud...I wonder how many of us could get up, go to the range with our pick of our rifles, and shoot one 5 shot group of 1/4 inch, with witnesses. I doubt that I can do it. Better probably to say that I'm pretty darn sure I can't do it. And I have two really accurate rifles that are capable of it and have on occasion done it. If I wanted to try it, I'd pick one rifle (either my 220 or 260, or the 223 when I get it back from Derrick), put in a week of trigger time, reload some match grade bullets, clean the barrel, foul the bore, wait a day for a cold bore, and then sit down and try to make 5 shots go into one hole. It's possible that I could do it, but the percentages don't favor me - even on the internet. When I get the 223 back, I'll give it a try.

As for what Chad said about the 223 and long range head shots, I fully agree but didn't bring that up in my last post. I'd grab my 260. Hopefully the pig will hold still for just a bit. If he will hold still, I can probably make the shot at up to 300 yards or so, if I have time to really set up on a good rest. Past that, I'm dreaming.

2-300 is long range for me with a .223.

Out of my 10 rifles only 2 will shoot 1\4 moa. Both have match barrels and use reloads. I had to check my target twice when the .223 did it so even I was surprised. I thought I had one hole and several flyers. I don't know why folks make a big deal out of someone claiming to shoot 1\4 moa. IMO, most of it is the quality of rifle. The fundamentals are basic and merely require repetition. I guess it's also relative as there's different levels or natural talent.

The two areas I lack in are range estimation and wind calls. I don't want to use a range finder and need help relearning to read wind as its been too long since I was taught.

Precision shots with a .223 Rem 200-300 yards?

http://swfa.com/Bushnell-3-12x44-Elite-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51677.aspx

Get out of the "don't want to use a rangefinder mode". That's like saying I don't want to drive a car or truck because I can walk. Wind is an education followed by lots of practice.

I know it's off topic slightly but I'm not a 100% ethical pig Hunter. Just want them dead quick. Shoot pigs behind the ear not in the head. I learned that when the biggest gun I had was a 22 mag. Killing pigs is different from killing deer from an ethical standpoint to me. I will take shots on pigs that I would never take on deer but pigs are vermin/nuisance where deer are game.

And this is a smoking efing deal right here. http://www.natchezss.com/3-12x44-black-matte-illum.html

LOL!!!!


I DO need a new keyboard.

I don't want to use rangefinder because I can learn to estimate.

I see nothing wrong with putting in the practice to learn those things. What if I find myself in a situation someday with an inoperable range finder? FTR, I've made wind calls up to 500m and been darn near perfect with peep sights. I just haven't practiced that in over 10 years.

Rifleman for 100's of years didn't have rangefinders and were successful.

Do you think that scope is just as good as more expensive brands?

I really don't understand what the big deal is.

It's not that hard to get that accuracy with the right gear and adherence to shooting basics.

I'm trying to help you won't let me. Get the rangefinder, estimate range, check it with the range finder, and you will get better at estimation. You will also only plan on estimating if your rangefinder goes down for some reason. Riflemen also missed many first shots because they misjudged the distance. Then you're in a spray and pray situation. Miss a coyote and he will not give you a second chance. Miss a hog and you MIGHT get a follow up shot.

I have that rifle scope's big brother the 3.5-21X on loan from Bushnell. It is some of the best glass I have ever looked through and very nice turrets. The reticle is not too busy. I will probably buy that 3-12 for my own AR-15

Now that I see you qualified your statement a little more precise I agree it's not that big of a deal.

"Out of my 10 rifles only 2 will shoot 1\4 moa. Both have match barrels and use reloads. I had to check my target twice when the .223 did it so even I was surprised. I thought I had one hole and several flyers. I don't know why folks make a big deal out of someone claiming to shoot 1\4 moa. IMO, most of it is the quality of rifle. The fundamentals are basic and merely require repetition. I guess it's also relative as there's different levels or natural talent."

The fact that your AR once shot A .2 MOA group at 100 is a notable feat and I admit somewhere I still have a picture of the group with my 6x45mm that best I could measure was .090 but that does not make it a .100 weapon. 603country pretty much nailed it with his post.

I will add that the reason you read and hear about all those unbelievable long shots from history long past IS due to the fact they did not have rangefinders to show that 900 yard shot across the canyon was really only 400 yards.

Seen more guys than I can count say "that looks like its 500 yards out". Bounce a laser on it and it's 250. Show them a real 500 yard distance and they say WOW! Show them 1000 yards and it looks near impossible to them to be able to hit anything that far away.

I see what you're saying JG, but I thought I needed training to learn to estimate better. Basically what you're saying is that using a rangefinder will eventually allow me to guess correctly?

I like that Bushnell scope but I don't know much about them.

Thanks for understanding me. Both those have done it repeatedly though since I found the perfect load. I've only been loading for a few years and still am trying to learn all the little details for accuracy. I'd like to see .1 moa someday.

Been carrying a range finder with me almost daily for two years and am still on the same battery. Use it every time you have time. Meaning if you're a ways off from hogs and have to few seconds to range them do it. In the event of an "oh chit" moment when you have to snap shoot then you will have had time seeing known ranges and will be better prepared to make an educated guess, because that is all it will be.

Bushnell aint what it used to be. They are turning out fantastic optics that will compete with all the big boys. In fact there was a link in this section a while back where $1500+ scopes were blind tested. Bushnell beat a couple of Night Force, a Schmitt and Bender, several Leupolds and the list goes on.

The bushnell I linked to is a great scope that has no rivals at that price

Sure. Quarter MOA rifles grow on trees. I'm the tooth fairy and I've known you since you were about seven years old.

To me the scope choice is almost dictated by the barrel profile, length and overall AR
weight.

I have a 20" barrel varmint AR with a 4-16x56 scope and a 16" barrel govt. profile fluted
AR with a 1-4x24 or holosight I put on it.

Add the lighting changes over the course of a day to distant targets and it becomes very difficult to estimate range by sight. I've tried to get better for years but I sure depend on a rangefinder.

Back when I was a fanatical golfer, I was great at judging range. Nowdays I'm not good at either, so I use a rangefinder.