Leupold VS Viper

okay I'm off the higher powered scopes for now.

I'm now looking at a Vortex VIper HS in 2.5 x 10 44mm with 30mm Tube for $299 or a Leupold VX3 3.5 x 10 50mm 1" tube for about $500.

Is the VX3 worth $200 more?

looking at a scope at the store is hard to determine how "good" a scope is. I already have the Same Viper mentioned above and am satisfied but only hunted 3 or 4 times with it.

IMO - No. Vortex is pumping out some nice glass. I'm VERY happy with mine.

Looking at all the forums I go on I see ALOT of Vortex for sale. I have thought about buying one but I just can't pull the trigger. I would rather put my money into a leupold. Just my 2 cents.

In my opinion a 3.5x10 vx3 is not worth $500 for what it brings to the table. There are way too many scopes that bring the same amount to the table for less $.

I would buy a Burris before I would a Vortex. Burris has good optics at a very fair price. 4.5-14 for $300-400

In my opinion the gains of a Vx3 over a Vx2 are marginal at best. If you don't want a scope with the ability to dial elevation and don't have to have a swaro etc. There is no reason to spend that much.

What is your goal for the scope? I have hunted my whole life with a Leupold VXII... which according to todays standards is a piece of junk. It compares about even to my vortex viper LR in clarity and dawn dusk shooting to me. Only reason I bought the viper is for a turret.

Also if your looking at a 3.5x10 any 3x9 will look nearly the same and several can be had for less that will give you the same amount of capability and quality in my opinion.

New Jeep....check my ad in the THF Classifieds on that Burris FF II 4.5-14x42 PA for a real surprise...or I REALLY need to raise my price...

FWIW I bought a Minox ZA5 HD 2x10x50 30mm instead of either of these...
Ron

To OP, I have both scopes and the Leupold is hands down better at all aspects. You will notice it during the final and first 30 minutes of shooting time and you will notice it if you drop your gun. Lastly, you will notice the difference in 5 years if you need to sell it!

Even the old Vari-X III glass is pretty darned good, and VX-2 glass is even better.

I think the VX3 has superior glass and I have 3 of them. The Vortex has better options as far as Reticles (Leupold has many too but they are mostly custom order) and the turrets are nice and solid. Both have excellent customer service and a lifetime warranty. I believe Vortex will replace it if you drive over it with your truck but Leupold won't.

The vortex is going to be nicer but if you don't want to spend the money the vortex is an amazing scope. I have a vortex viper hs and a few leupolds (including a VX3) and while yes the leupolds are nicer the vortex is more than adequate. I'd save money and get the vortex.

I have never owned the Viper but have a few VX3s. The latest, a 3.5-10x40 CDS, did not track properly from the factory. I sent it in. The service I received was very quick. Unfortunately, it now tracks worse. Lol I have another one NIB I am scared to mount because of my last experience. Overall, I like the VX3 scopes and this was my first issue ever with a Leupold. I think they are big improvement over the last generation but are still a bit behind the Meopro line. You may also consider the 3.5-10x44 Meopro that Camerylandny sells for $399. It's a steal. I own both and it is noticeably better to my eyes than the VX3.

Word

agree w pittstate

So the Leupold will sell for over $200 more than the Viper?

Just from what I've seen (and heaven knows I'm no expert), I would disagree.

The Leupold will resale for a higher percentage of what you paid for it in 5 years. You should get about 70/80% of what you paid in 5 years if you take care of it. You will be lucky to get 60% and probably 50% of what you paid on the Vortex.

Not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't apply for every line of Viper scopes, across the board. Viper PSTs tend to fetch 80% of retail if they are not beat up.

Doesn't really make sense why the viper resale would suffer more. You can turn it back to them for running it over with your truck and they will fix/replace it. Leupold wont.

I have several Leupolds and love all of them, my main gripe is that what you get for the VX-3 is not worth the money. I would ten times over buy a lesser Leupold line than the vx3, the increase in what you get just isn't comparable to the increase in cost.

I agree that there are always exceptions within both Companies' products. I was talking on average for both sides.

If Vortex can continue on their current growth pattern for another 20 years (Macro/Legal environment with no big differences in time period), they could go broke taking back any scope and fixing for any reason. No one can accurately predict the future, but I would not buy any product for that type of warranty alone. You need to go with the better product. It isn't just Vortex....very few companies can sustain with that type of warranty. Imagine if Apple or Microsoft had the same warranty?

Well I can say this. Many, many Vortex and SS scopes are responsible for lots of solid hits on every target on my range. I've only had one Leupold out.

The right tool for the job would depend on just what the job is. For typical hunting, better glass. For long range steel, the right reticle and turrets built to be jacked with all the time.

Truth in that statement. Except, as in hunting, you need the most clear glass you can get. Give me the choice of great glass and 12X, and decent glass and 16X, and I will pick the great glass everytime.


The disconnect so many people seem to have is train on steel to prepare for the hunt. So why sacrifice any feature for one or the other? Same reason I've hit steel for years and am able to hit the coyote, hog, or prairie dog almost as far as I please, at will. It is the exact same thing as folks shooting clays, with a shotgun, to warm up for bird season.

I'm sure shooting steel does no harm to your shooting ability, JG, but you're talking about another game all together. It just doesn't appeal to me, nor does the equipment. I like my sporter weight rifles with classic stocks, my .25 calibers (and others too!), and the bullets I choose with no consideration whatsoever to BCs. I like the challenge of getting them to shoot and I shoot them as much as I can and as well as I can and rarely if ever adjust zero. I even manage to kill stuff now and then. I like it like that.

That's my game. Different from yours, and . But, just as you say, good glass is a definite *must have* and I will choose a nice clear 12x image over a so-so, fuzzy or dim 16x image any day of the week.

So, for a target scope, would you go Leupold Mark4 ER/T or Vortex Viper PST?

Both are FFP, Mil/Mil. Which would have better glass?

Vortex every day and twice on Sunday. Very clear glass, great price, and unbelievable warranty.

I'd have to have a side by side comparison to accurately answer. Which one would have the bigger price tag?

I say Zeiss Terra is better than them all

Leupold by about $700...but I feel anymore, you're paying 10%-20% higher price for the L on the side of the Leupolds.

So I stopped by cabelas today, since I was passing right by it. I compared a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T to a Vortex Viper PST, side by side. Optically, in the store, they looked to be about equal. I know insides the store is not a good comparison...
The turrets on them was a different story! The Mark 4 was horrible. Not tactile in the least, very mushy feeling. Could not hear an audible click l, and could barely feel the click. The PST turrets were 100x better than the Mark 4. Very tactile, audible and you could feel positive engagement from click to click... Looks like I may be getting a PST for my next scope.

If budget allows, and weight is not of concern I'd recommend the SS 5-20 HD. It has better glass and 10 Mils per rev on the elevation turret. Not hating on the Viper PST, I have the 6-24X model, but the SS is a better scope in all but weight.

I've considered the SS HD 5-20x, just not sure if I want more magnification or not, or if I can convince my wife the let me spend the extra few hundred $...

The Viper losses clarity at 24X, and I back mine down to 22X or 20X very often. Glass quality trumps magnification. I spot for students with the SS every time.

Tell her its like a quality wrench. Still a tool, but a good tool that probably won't break, but if it does it has a great warranty. I've worked mine hard for going on four years without one problem.

SS is about the best you can get for the price. Vortex and Leupold are both quality optics, I think your splitting hairs if your trying to call one better than the other, just my 2c.

I bought a Vortex once....Just once.

Hated it, returned it, bought VXIII, never looked back. Yes it costs a bit more but it's worth it.

I have the Vortex Viper 2.5 x 10 44mm and it's fantastic. The 44mm objective lens diameter allows for a little extra visibility first/last 30. Not to mention it's only $299 right now with a $50 Cabelas Cash at Cabelas. No one is trying to say Leupold isn't making good stuff, obviously. But for $250, that's a real nice piece of glass.

I see folks absolutely love Vortex glass. I see folks absolutely hate Vortex glass. A conundrum, but personally I tend to stay away from any product that a significant number of people dislike.

I see very view complaints about Leupold quality, only price.

I'm a dealer for both Vortex and Leupold. I always explain it this way: with vortex, you are getting 95% of the optics for about 80% of the price. That being said, in certain cases, that 5% of optics can make all of the difference in the world. You also have to compare two scopes with similar characteristics. By comparing a 44mm vortex to a 50mm Leupold, the Leupy will beat the tar out of the Vortex. But that's not saying anything about the glass as much as the objective size of the scope.

If you want pure optics, Leupold is the way to go when looking at similar products. If you want options, Vortex will give you a lot more options for the money.

I'm perplexed that at least one person actually buys a scope based on resale value

Unless it's a consumable like food or gas, I consider resale on everything I buy. It's one of the reasons that guns and shooting are one of my hobbies. Because even though you have a lot invested, it doesn't cost you that much money long-term to invest because they hold value so well.

I could see if Bill Gates didn't care about resale. But for the average joe, it's important on nearly every purchase I would assume.

I've actually found the more money you have, the more you care about resale.

Its still perplexing to me, just like the guy who frets over purchases and spends $5 to save a nickel.

Regardless of whether I can buy whatever I want, I still appreciate that a man can get by the rest of his days with a Handi-Rifle and a Weaver K4, while shooting Federal Blue Box out of his Chevy truck, and darn well get his money's worth by the time any of them fail him. He'll get great non-tangible value, and less mental anguish.

Iv had the same Leopold on my rifle since I was 9 so I couldn't tell you about the other... great company and customer service

I'm gonna admit a Handi-Rifle would give me some mental anguish. Can we at least move up to a Savage Axis?

(I actually have one of those in .308 with a VX-1 on it in my truck - and that thing has probably killed more stuff than the rest of my guns combined. Mostly hogs and some yotes.)

Spotting scopes and bino's- vortex every day

Scopes and electronics....it's 50/50.... price vs features vs wants. Two years ago I'd say vortex but price creep is getting up there, and Luppy has taken note that they are getting tails kicked and adjusting

Probably a percentage of the reason why they have more money in the first place. Not just pertaining to optics, but anything really.

I only use Leupold for scopes. Locating optics are Swaro and Leica. Locating optics are paramount-way more important than scopes for my uses.

Just got my Vortex Viper PST 2.5 x 10 x 44mm in this afternoon. Will mount it this weekend and sight it in (weather permitting). When I have time to better judge the 'glass' (low-light, etc) I will report back, but a cursory look through it...left me thinking it is just 'so-so'.

BTW, I didn't think anyone knew where 'Nogalus Prairie' was.

Never heard of the place. Always figured NP just couldn't spell "Nogales," which straddles the US-Mexico border. I done thought you was illiterate, NP. Turns out it was me!

LOL, my place is there. Kind of an "inside joke" for the very few folks who have heard of it.

Guessing BFE Crossroads was taken....

I have since learned "Hagerville" would have been even more accurate. A once-thriving community long-gone now.

Got my rifle sighted in today and spent a little time on a Hog Stand this evening. Was wanting to 'snipe' a few Raccoon's that have been raiding my feeder. Can't live trap them anymore (they are wise to that). They have learned to jump up onto the feeder legs to avoid the 'leg hold' traps I have set, so 'sniping' them (until they get the message) is about all I can do.

Anyway, got to semi-evaluate the Vortex (Viper PST 2.5 x 10 x 44mm illuminated).

This afternoon while sighting it in...I was able to take a good look at the glass. As previously stated...it is just 'OK'. Certainly serviceable, but nothing to write home to Mom about. This evening I had several hours to spend looking through it from dusk until way after dark (under LED lights).

Here are what I think the strong points are:

1. Feels well built, rugged construction
2. All of the adjustments (Elevation, Windage, Magnification Ring, Rheostat, Eye Piece Focus) are very positive. You can feel the quality there.
3. The etched glass reticle is very nicely done, very precise and crisp looking.
4. The reticle remains sharp at every setting of the rheostat (illuminated).

Some things that could be better:

1. The glass is just 'so-so'. For the life of me...I cannot understand all the 'hoopla' you read about in reviews, except those folks must not have looked through optics with truly 'good' glass before.
2. The eye relief is OK, but the scope seems very sensitive to eye placement/cheek weld... or you will quickly experience shadowing around the edges. This is particularly true at night when there is less light.

I don't want to be overly critical of the Sight...since at this price point ($600.00 range) it's an 'alright' optic...but IMO no particular bargain. If it were a $400.00 Scope...yes, it would be offering a lot for the money.

I am left thinking that because of the VIP warranty Vortex offers, they are basically including the price (their cost) of a replacement scope...in the retail price, instead of offering a limited warranty and putting that money into the Optic. Good marketing strategy...(most folks will never break one), but they could offer an even better scope..if they wanted to.

One feature I would like to see on their illuminated models would be a choice between Red and Green Reticles. This evening under the Red hog lights, the red reticle had a tendency to 'wash out' my target, even on the lowest setting. Green would have showed up nicely. I have a scope with the ability to choose either color and it has proven a useful feature.

I will probably keep this scope...but it doesn't really thrill me.

Would like to hear from others about their Vortex products. I know there are MANY satisfied users out there. The more we contribute here...the easier it will be for someone else to make a choice.

Thanks,

Flint.

Very nice review

Thank you for sharing.

I'm with flint knapper on the illuminated reticle. Even at the lowest level it's still too bright to suit me.

As for the scope and value, I have the PST 4-16 FFP. If all the specs, including weight, are considered, what other company offers this much quality for a lower price than this?

Thank you for that review. Though rarely as detailed, I have read/heard many similar assessments. Because optical quality (low-light performance and minimizing eye fatigue) is so important for my uses, I have never bought a Vortex product.

I disagree when it comes to guns. I could not care about the resale when I choose to buy a firearm or related accessory, this is probably because I have only sold 2 guns in my life, I am gun buyer.

If you were really being intellectually honest with yourself you would be doing a ROIC or similar metrics around part worth utility on every purchase. Resale? Meh...

My thinking is if my wife and I ever lost our jobs, it would be a lot easier to sell my guns for a high percentage of what I have in them compared to other hobbies. I'm a gun buyer too, but I have no idea when I might have to become a seller.

Compared to the SWFA SS 3-15x42 FFP, you're paying an extra $200 for an illuminated reticle that you don't even like. The SWFA is only an ounce and a half heavier.

edit: also, the Vortex has a 50mm objective compared to the 42mm on the SWFA. But to me, if you don't want/need the illuminated reticle, then the SWFA is the best value in that category. I wish Vortex made an FFP HS-T model, since those have no illuminated reticle and no exposed windage turret (I think). But I don't think many folks are looking for that exact set of features.

Well, I didn't know that the illuminated reticle was too bright when I bought the scope, and I didn't decide that it was too bright till I had the scope for most of a year. If I could just dial it down one more notch, that might be perfect. Maybe the battery will get weak and that'll fix the problem.

Sooner or later, when Leupold has just exactly what I want, I'll probably spend money with them. As for illuminated reticles, I think all I really want would be that TMR reticle with an illuminated dot in the middle. I can't see that I have a use for a full illuminated mil reticle if I'm shooting in light so dim that I need an illuminated reticle in the first place. Maybe a military sniper or LE marksman would want that, but not me. Only short range shots will be made in very dim light - at pigs and coyotes.

The reticle would not present a problem for me if I could turn it down just a bit more. Also, on larger game (hogs, coyotes, etc) it would not matter. But in this case...I have it on a .17 HMR for the purpose of 'sniping' some raccoons at a distance of about 100 yds.

The reticle being in the second focal plane..is a good thing, since it doesn't 'grow' along with the magnification, but the subtensions (hash marks) are close enough together that it has the effect of 'washing out' your target. What is actually taking place..is that your eye is 'competing' for the focal attention.

I knew it might be a problem...before purchasing the Optic. It does not render the Scope 'unusable' for me, it is somewhat a hindrance when very 'fine' shot placement is required in low light conditions.

I have a scope (with excellent glass) that has a German # 4 reticle, that is pretty much ideal for what I do. The pic below is at 4 power (through a scant 24mm objective) looking at a distance of about 90 yards.



It is much superior to the Vortex. I will take some photos of the Vortex, next time I am out.

Again, the Vortex is 'Serviceable', but there is certainly room for improvement. I hope this does not come across as a wholly disparaging report of it.

Flint.

Is that a vxr?

Looks a whole lot like a VX-R

Looks like a VXR to me. Same one I have if so, 1.25-4x. It's a great little optic and great glass!

For the life of me, I've never gotten the need for IR & I do a lot of low light, out of the reach of qbeam hog shooting.

Newest fad. More than useless for most hunting. Irony is most of them are at the peak of their uselessness in low-light situations.

The VXR turns down very low and is a tiny dot. It is great for nighttime pig hunting. I have found no other time when I turn it on. My wife uses hers in full daylight. She feels it helps her. I know she don't miss.

That's why I qualified it. The one or two I have looked through lit up like a Christmas tree. I depend on lighting up the hog enough so any scope will work. I don't have a dedicated hog gun-whatever gun I have handy is my hog gun.

I have one on one of my 300s, never feel the urge to turn it on or had a situation that required it.

I currently own both Leupold VX3 and Viper HS and the Leupold has better glass. Is it $200 better? Maybe not, but I like the CDS dials on the Leupold. Btw, the said VX3 is 3.5-10x40 and the Viper HS is 4-16x44.

Am I missing something? What's the point of editing the colors in the pic?

Why do you assume the colors have been edited?

Oversaturation of everything else in the pic.

That's a byproduct of fumes in ETX

Didn't do anything with it. That photo was taken on December 15th 2009 @ 4:42 p.m.

Had a heavy rain that morning, all the leaves and Red Clay soil are still wet. The last rays of sun are on the Oats in the food plot, also on the West side of the trees.

The terrain goes slightly uphill from the vantage point (elevated stand). The stand I was sitting in was actually in the shadows of tall pines...looking out into the last area of sunlit food plot. That is what accounts for the contrast. That is just what that area looks like in the Fall, late in the day..in Deep East Texas.

I've had a stand in that spot for many, many years, so I am sure I can show you more photos just like it...if you like.


Flint.

Personally, I never had a thought the pic was altered.

HDR?

No, unless some aspect of that is built into the camera...which is doubtful. We are talking a nearly 10 year old, inexpensive, Canon S5IS. More than likely...I had it set on 'Auto', and the picture you see...is what I got.

I am no photographer...so any technical terms or discussions will quickly get 'over my head'. I just snap the pictures, transfer them to the computer, upload to photobucket and there you go. They are whatever they are?

The MK4 I have has superior glass by far compared to a Viper HS. The adjustments feel like crap though compared to my other scopes ment for turret twisting. I feel like the MK4 is a great option if bought at the mil/leo discount but I wouldn't pay typical retail.

Sounds to me from reading y'all's posts that Leupold is behind the curve in the precision/long-range shooting market with their less than satisfactory adjustments.

That's surprising given the growth of that market. They better step up their game.

^^That's exactly right.

They have stepped up their game and are making some (on paper) very nice scopes. This, in the grand scheme of things, is a new development. Given the history of Leupold glass I suspect the clarity is terrific. The problem with the scopes they make to get the precision/ long range work accomplished is price. Their top tier scopes are out of many people's budget. Those folks (such as myself) don't have the budget to get into a Leupold scope, so they look to Vortex or SS to get the features needed, as well as very nice glass. Leupold's prices here are more in line with top tier military grade high end optics. That's, apparently the tier they wanted to market to. Their choice, of course, but they are cutting many of us out due to price.

Agreed. I have a hard time justifying 2-3k on a Leupold when your in the same price class as some others top tier with known track record. My Leupold was a bit of a oddity for it's time being a mil/mil scope but the downside is 1/20th adjustments and they didn't offer that matching package long at all and are just now back in the mil/mil game

I asked Garret what he used in the Marine Corps. He as in, late nineties. USMC Scout Snipers were using Mark 4 scopes, Mil reticle, MOA turret, and they held onto that for way longer than they should have. These days we see that as asinine.

Unless things have changed the navy is still ordering their NightForce that way.

"It's the way we've always done it" Is never a good reason to not use the improved version on any tool or method.

https://vortexnation.wordpress.com/2015/03/12/my-vip-story-disaster-not-so-much-we-have-you-covered/

Which is what I find odd since they recently upgraded to the newest AI chassis and a Stiller action. So why not up the optics? I guess the good thing is they have a dead nuts reliable scope but converting for adjustments sucks.

Absolute silliness.

I'd make them binoculars sleep in the garage with the dog too.






****disclaimer

this comment does not mean in any shape or form that I prefer leupold binos over vortex.