1st post. My needs for a mid-longe range hunting scope

I guess the market for my ideal hunting scope is very small. With shot show just around the corner, every year I hope more companies offer scopes to fit my needs. And it seems every year I am disappointed.

My wish list for a long range scope is very simple.


3-9, 2-10, 3-12, even a fixed 6x scope would work.
30mm or 1 inch tube
40-42mm objective lens
12 inches or under in length
large field of view
around 20 ounces in weight
ffp 1/2 mil reticle
mil adjusted, capped windage knob
reliable and repeatable adjustments
10 mil elevation knob with either zero stop or lock
top tier glass
easy no bs warranty
parallax adjustable
1-1.5k in price.

Currently only the Bushnell lrhs fits the above features. I have been making do with a vortex razor, weaver emdr, trijicon 3-9 mildot, and sightron mildots for years now.

What worries me is every year scope companies come out with higher and higher mag range scopes. I love the modern features, but not the weight and size penalties. These long range scopes are better measured in pounds than ounces. Who wants to hunt with a scope that by itself weighs 3-4 pounds? Mirage dictates I turn my scopes down below 12x most of the time anyways. I can't remember the last time my razor was turned up above 18x.

My hunting mostly involves pigs from 10-900ish yards. All I need to do is be able to identify, yes that is a pig. I don't need to count points, or measure spread. I do need a large field of view to see where these pigs are going, and to make sure no cows are in the area.

Back in the 90's schmidt bender made a simple fixed 6x pmII scope with a mildot reticle and 12 mil knobs. Throw a klein reticle, along with a lifetime warranty, in that thing and sign me up!


Why is it that someone feels the need to have a 20-40x scope for long range shooting of 1-2moa or larger targets? In UKD type shooting, I would simply be lost at high magnification. I feel that the field of view is paramount when transitioning from x target at 436 yards to y target at 867 yards. Not to mention if those two targets may be 45 degrees from each other.

I am curious to see if I'm the only one who feels the industry is missing the boat.

And finally, a few pics of the hunting grounds.

No they're not missing the boat. Thus the existence of FFP and a variable power scope. "Making do with a Vortex Razor"? Really? Awesome scope. Only bad about it is weight. Want to cut weight, go with a Viper PST Mil/Mil FFP. They have a 2.5-10x, 4-16x, and 6-24x, pick the one that suites your needs. Want low magnification? Turn it down. Want mid or high magnification? Turn it up. I don't get your disconnect here. You obviously know how to shoot distance. And other than weight of a scope they are giving us as many options as we could ask for.

I've been impressed with the SWFA SS 5-20x50 HD, and its $1500.

If you want to sell that razor shoot me a pm with specs and price.

I jack up the magnification when I'm shooting 600+. I like to see what I'm shooting as clearly as possible especially an animal. I can't put my finger on what your trying to point out.

A couple more points and observations. My razor is a fine long range scope, and I have put that thing through hell. The razor is not a hunting scope. 35 ounces gets old quick on my morning walks around the ranch. Also, I really don't like the exposed windage turret. I hold for all my wind either target shooting or hunting. I am not the only long range shooter who does this. I need a windage knob that I can set my 100 yard zero, cap it, and then forget about it.

The whole reason I bought the Weaver EMDR was because it has a decent mag range 3-15, ffp, and locking turrets. Having used it for a few years now, I am still left with wanting more. Even though it has locking turrets, they still aren't low profile enough. And finally, the EMDR reticle is complete garbage in that scope. Why in the world they woudn't have 1/2 mil markings between 0 and 1 mils is beyond me. 75 percent of my wind calls are between 0 and 1 mil. It may as well just be a plain jane mildot reticle.

The SS 5-20 may be a good scope, but 31 ounces, exposed windage, no zero stop. It just doesn't have what I need. I tried a SS 3-9 when it first came out. The non-hd glass was not up to par. Changing magnification was a pain without a switchview. If SWFA would come out with another 3-9 that had the capped turrets from the 1-6, parallax,better glass, better mag ring, and keep it at 20 ounces, I would be all over it. As long as I am dreaming, the ss would be even better if it were around 11 inches long.



Vortex pst are also a no go for most of the same reasons I pointed out above. Vortex seems to be coming around, but apparently they are convinced that all long range hunting scopes need to be MOA/MOA. They make a 4-16 Viper HS LR that has most all of the features I am looking for. Capped low profile windage knob, ffp, etc, etc.
Too bad its made in the Phillipines and has an MOA reticle and adjustments.

I am wanting Vortex to come out with a 2-12 hunting razor that have the features listed above. They cater to the hunting crowd with other razor products. They make a great pair of binos, and an awesome range of razor spotting scopes. Yet, when it comes time to make the shot, it's back to the Viper line.

Another point on magnification. I rarely use any mag above 12x when shooting long range, and anything above 12 is a killer for a hunting scope. I stress to people all the time, that the target doesn't have to take up the whole view in the scope. We need to be able to identify the animal or target, and use the appropiate hold. I want as large a field of view as possible to do this, because I have to keep an eye out for the cattle, and I want to be able to transition easily to the next pig.

My style of hunting isn't done out of a blind. I hunt on my familes cattle ranch. We have a pig problem. This ranch is more narrow than it is wide, and about 3.5 miles from the front to the back. I do alot of walking. I see alot more pigs when I get up and simply walk to the front of the ranch and back. Often times these pigs will be in the same fields as cattle, and they are almost always on the move. If I cranked a scope up to 25-30x, I wouldn't be able to make sure the cattle are clear of the pigs.

Can you guys see where I'm coming from? Simple scope, low magnification, low weight, and feature rich. This equals easy hikes and more ham in the freezer. The Bushnell LRHS gets this. I am hoping other companies will soon too.

Maybe try the new swfa 3-15x42 FFP ?

I understand holding wind and not touching the windage turret again. That's what I do 99% of the time. I also understand wanting low magnification on the low end, but when you do that you sacrifice high end. Pay attention to your windage turrets and make sure they're zeroed. Bushnell Elite 3-12x is good and you may try the SS 3-15x. Other than that, e-mail mafacturers telling them what you would like to see produced.

FiremanJG, you see what I mean about those dang windage knobs. They do nothing for me but cause trouble. The fewer items I need to keep track of before the shot, the better. I would much rather focus on the target, wind condition, etc, etc.

In recent years scope companies seem to be catching on. Locking turrets seem to be gaining ground. Look at the Gen II razor for example. Or take a look at the leupold mark 6. Tiny capped windage, low profile m5c2 with zero stop and zero lock, good mag range, and only 24 ounces. I just can't swing the 2.5k at this time. It's a shame that they charge almost a grand for the m5c2 elevation knob and illumination. They can have the illumination, just give us the m5c2 knob. If leupold offered the same adjustments in the ffp mark 4 3-10, or the fx3 6x42, I would be all over that too. You see, these manufacturers are making all the features a guy could want. They just need to offer those features in the whole line of scopes. I think we could all agree that the m5c2 turret is a giant leap ahead of the basic m5 turret.

On the ss 3-15, I see zero advantage over my current Weaver. At least my weaver has locking knobs, even if they are oversized.

First of all, I am a total rookie at the long(er) range game and what little I know, or think I know, is what I've learned from the fine folks on this forum. The statement 6.5x47Lapua made that resonates with me is a capped windage knob as it seems most do not dial windage and the tall turret does protrude more than I would like for hunting or even target shooting purposes. In searching for a decent/good 1-4 scope in Mils for ARs I was unable to find what I wanted (capped turrets in mil/mil) in the $500 range without a compromise. Vortex has one that is capped but it is in MOA, SWFA has want I want but $700+. I ended up getting the SWFA 1-6 on sale and it should provide what I am looking for but more $ than what I really want to spend. I also just got the SWFA 3-9X42 but not sure it is HD and it may be just what 6.5x47Lapua is looking for except the capped windage turret. Mils and FFP are much easier for me to understand so I am switching out nearly all my scopes to be consistent and it is costing me a small fortune but am confident it will help me learn this long range game.

Big Fitz, the pic I posted above with the ar15 in it has a ss 3-9. SWFA almost got that scope right, but I found several things about it that I just didn't like. See post #6 for my reasons.

Got it 6.5, I did get the switchview for the 3-9 and I believe/hope it is now HD (listed in that section and now advertised as such but box does not indicate so) but it still has the target windage knob. The next thing I "think" I want on SWFA scopes is more of a EBR-2B reticle Vortex has...seems like this would be good for hunting when dialing may not be practical or engaging multiple targets at different ranges in a short amount of time. So many choices and so little time/money...

Oh, Fitz we gonna engage multiple targets at various ranges quickly when you come out.

Get a good night sleep the night before...

I still prefer the high power scope to size up a buck, and no I don't try to fill the reticle with the target when taking a shot. Most of my LR shots are hunting situations, never could find time to shoot competition with work, three kids and, a hunting lease. I shoot regularly at home, fortunate to have a huge yard with two homemade ranges right out the door of my reloading room.

USO builds scopes with capped windage turrets.

Spg, that is the difference between our styles of hunting. You need high mag to count points, measure spread, etc, etc. I understand that. I hunt whitetail deer for the meat only. Does are just fine for me.

Pigs are a different story. If I see it, I need to take my best shot. No need for measuring or identifying sex. All pigs are worth a shot.

USO's are very expensive and usually entirely too heavy for hunting rifles. Boat anchors really.

I am very impressed with the Bushnell LRHS 3-12

I have decided the weaver and a few other scopes are going on the chopping block. The lrhs is the closest scope for my needs at this time. Hopefully other scope companies will offer better options, for hunters like me, in the future. Always better to have options

Time will tell.

March has the .5 mil clicks...FWIW. Not sure I see the advantage unless you were wanting to shoot benchrest matches with a mil scope.

Just out of curiosity...have y'all ever had a windage knob get turned without you turning it? I haven't and I just wondered.

Judd, I think you mean .05 adjustments on some of the March scopes. That is definitely to small of adjustments for the type of shooting I do. I also rule out anything made by March because of there 5 year warranty on scopes. If I'm paying 2-3k for a scope, it has to have an easy no bs lifetime warranty.

Yes, I'm a DA...thank you. I read your post and was thinking you were asking for .05 not .5.

Sorry. Also, can't argue your logic on March warranty...but they are sweet scopes, my benchrest running buddy has 3 and they are awesome scopes. I don't have any for the same reason you don't. Plus, NF has went above and beyond to earn my business so all my bench rigs wear those.

FWIW, I didn't really care for the March 3-25x42
I thought the glass didn't match the price tag and the parallax adjustment was a pain and very, very finicky.

My buddy got one in in high hopes of it, he ended up preferring and buying the LRHS for his OBR.

I have the LRHS and a NF NSX 2.5-10x42 that I am trying to decide which one to buy for my Wilson Combat 18" 308 that is due any day.

Here are both side by side..
The NF is a tad more compact and lighter and that pushes me in it's direction.
Glass is virtually identical..

Pay close attention to the Viper PST you have. The windage knob turns freely on mine. Fortunately I learned that at a friend's range and not on a hunt. I checked it every time I took it out of the scabbard while Mule deer hunting. And it had gotten moved several times last week. The SS doesn't give me that problem.

My knobs get moved all the time when taking them out of a scabbard, or crawling around thick brush. Happens on my Razor and the ss 3-9. The weaver addresses that issue with locking knobs, but they are still too tall. This is why I am so adamant about having a covered windage knob and a zero stop on the elevation. One day those damn knobs are going to cost me meat in the freezer......

My NF never moves and I'm not easy on it.

Dee, I'm not trying to be rude here, but how many hiking miles has your nightforce rode in a scabbard, or pushed through thorn tickets? When I think about thorns and thick vines, I picture the Ouchita national forest in Arkansas. Those thorns just grab onto anything and everything, and it makes a prime environment for loosing ones windage zero. I am new here, and just trying to get a grasp of your type of hunting.

Even Nightforce themselves installed a low profile covered windage knob on there hunting series of scopes, the G7. I very much like that aspect of the G7, even if the adjustments and reticle aren't to my liking.

Also, how often do you dial wind in a hunting situation? I have heard rumor of people who dial wind for each shot, but most of those guys are f class or benchrest type shooters.

I love the low profile turrets and illumination. I figured, buy once and cry once

Tye, you will get no arguments from me. Very nice setup. If only that mark 6 would have been out when I bought my razor.

Mine is carried across my chest with a TAB sling and flush cups. I haven't gone up any mountains but have gone through briar and thick underbrush along creeks in Texas and Oklahoma. I don't think I have ever dialed for wind nor do I plan to start. The adjustments are very stiff and need to be deliberately turned. My older Bushnell Elite is no where near this way nor is my Leupold MK4. They are just not up to the same standard the newer Bushnell however seem to be.

You mentioned it, why not try the Elite Tactical ERS 4.5-30x 50mm Side Focus Mil-Dot?

Illumination required?

Dee, if you don't ever plan on dialing wind, would you welcome a capped windage knob like the one found on the g7? Or would you rather have an exposed turret that could move on you, but hasn't as of yet? Just curious. No wrong answers here.

I'm not sure if that question was directed towards me or not, but I will answer it anways. The ERS 4.5-30 just doesn't fit many of the requirements I want in a hunting scope. I wouldn't mind having that scope for a UKD target only rifle. It's just too heavy, bulky, and has excessive magnification for my version of a perfect hunting optic.

Illumination is not required. I rarely if ever use a lit reticle, except for my trijicon 3-9 mildot. I don't even bother changing out the batteries in most of my scopes anymore.

Nothing wrong with the Bushnell LRHS, good scope, just bought one. Shot one on a buddy's rifle, and I have their 3x21 tac with the Horus 59, on one of my guns....bought mine for $950 shipped to my door.

I'd prefer capped but not sure if the g7 is the answer as I haven't looked into them. The LRHS will be at the top of the list once the moa version hits the street.

Having shot several Tac style matches I have learned volumes from very good shooters. And one item has been to dial wind when unstable. So if you're only slung up or on an unsteady support (barricade) dial wind. Other than that, I hold wind. Soon as you commit to a wind dial the wind will change and you gotta reach up and correct it before sending the round. Its a double edged sword.

Getting a Leupold Mark 6 3-18 in on Monday to run on my new WC 308 18"
I have played with one but never ran one..
Of the reticles they had in stock I went with the CMR 7.62 though the TMR was my first choice.
Mainly a hunting rifle that I might do some casual competition with.

Oh, I will add that the Nightforce NSX 2.5-10x42's turrets don't accidentally turn.

I have shot a few TXPRC matches in 2012, 2013. Only time I broke into the top ten was in the finale at rifle ranch. I definitely learned a few tricks, and I still use my Razor for range work. I love going to the range and ringing still, but the TXPRC just wasn't my thing.

What I have outlined in this thread is my version of the perfect hunting scope. I can't see myself hunting for pigs off a barricade, a roof top, or a john boat attached to coil springs.

You got no imagination of a barricade. Translate those barricade learned skills into hunting.

How about shooting from a tree branch 2' or 3' off the ground? A fence post, barb wire, the side of a flatbed trailer, the hood of a pickup, , the tailgate, out the passenger window while still sitting in the drivers' seat, out the drivers' side window while still sitting in the drivers' seat (hardest one putting the butt of the rifle in your elbow).

That's how I teach guys on my range. I learned how to adapt to get stable using what is around you. Thus the reason I have a barricade in 1' increments, 1' to 4'. The stair step you've probably shot from. Learn the techniques to shoot from those barricades and translate their use while hunting. So I use a Mil/ Mil FFP for all rifle shooting, including hunting. And I realize what you have outlined, and I agree for the most part. I would like for my Viper PST windage knob to lock on zero for 95% of my shots. It won't, so I keep a watchful eye on it.

I hear what you are saying..
Too many people cant shoot unless they are on a bench.
I have been teaching my boys to learn to shoot off of improvised rests and to be wuick about it.

3 gun taught me how to shoot fast off hand and why I really like the ergos of an AR.

I would love to come up and shoot with you sometime.
I would love to get into the PRS stuff just havent made it a priority.

Say when.

I'm building a shop there, and there's always other work to do. So I'm there more days of a week than I am not.

Point well taken. The matches just weren't my thing.

I practice in a variety of positions, and have taken my fair share of shots from fence posts, rocks, etc. Participating in matches definitely helped in that regard.

LOOKS LIKE MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. Nightforce just about nailed everything I want except for the weight and price. Can't believe it. Time to start saving.

4-16 ATACR, ED glass,low profile elevation, capped windage knob, and ffp.


http://nightforceoptics.com/atacr/4-16x42-f1

It's about time.

Saw that late yesterday. I'm a bit interested to say the least.

It's about time. I was actually looking at the ATACR when it was SFP. I chose the Leupold mark 6 because of the FFP. I guess they are seeing that people are wanting FFP scopes

Although it doesn't interest me much, Nightforce is also offering a atacr 5-25 f1.

For the high magnification guys.
http://nightforceoptics.com/atacr/5-25×56-f1

Looks like both of these new scopes are going to be made in the USA too.

I hate yall. I opened the link.

I want one!

That's a hella of a hunting scope Imo
I wonder about that versus the mark 6

30oz qualifies as 'light'? Would love to have one, though.

Seems a good time to bump this tread. Having thought about it, I don't think the f1 4-16 is the scope for me after all. Just doesn't fit my weight requirements.

From what I have seen we all have two options.

1. Run whichever heavy scope you want that will shoot distance.

2. Run a Vortex Viper PST. It'll certainly shoot distance, and it is the lightest I have found with the same features.

It does seem encouraging that these companies are starting to listen. First the lrhs, now the 4-16 f1.

Sounds like they are starting to take advice from actual hunters/shooters.

What about the LRHS 4.5-18?

The 4.5-18 has alot going for it. I would rather have the 3x bottom end over a 18x top end.

Field of view is paramount.

Mark 6 3-18 is a nice one..
What I am running at the moment on my 308 gas gun

What are your overall thoughts on this scope? I'm thinking the tmr or tremor 2 reticle might be pretty nice depending.

Agreed, but the M5c2 turret is all that interests me. Truly a nice scope for a design standpoint.

3k is a tough pill to swallow right now.

For the love of God, please don't buy a tremor 2 reticle.

After a closer look I will be sticking to the tmr. When it's not zoomed in (on my phone) it resembled the g2 or gap reticle which I'm good with not the busy type it actually is.

I have the illuminated TMR with the low profile turrets

it's a damned nice scope.
another one to consider is the Steiner Tactical 3-15