Ammo update

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/222175314...ntcmp=obnetwork

I'm am just waiting for things to get so bad that people start selling individual rounds instead of boxes. When that happens I am cashing out.

We had a gun show last weekend, and it was by far the BEST gun show I've ever seen here in my town. There was at least 1000 rifles, pistols and shotguns for sale, and probably 20 tables filled with all calibers of ammo! It was awesome! I ended up buying a Baby Desert Eagle .45ACP that I have been wanting, and it was the first .45 I'd ever seen in person, so it took me all of 5 seconds to snatch off the table. Also loaded up on .45ACP, .44 Special, .45 Long Colt, and 9mm. Only calibers they didn't have were 22 Mag and .50AE (no surprise there).

I do have over 200 rounds of each in 22 Mag and .50AE so I'm good for now, BUT... all the local shops are now rationing. Small shops and Wal-Mart too.

Well the good thing is I don't need anymore ammo, I've even got some ammo I have no use for. I'm fixing to go through it all and pick them out and offer them up here. I will offer them selectively to those I deem need them and at the price I paid for them. This jacking up of prices I've seen on here is disturbing to say the least, when a box of 45 Long Colts were offered here at a dollar a round that took the cake. We have people buying ammo at the stores and then turning around and offering them here just to make a dime off the members and I find that disgusting in every way. The IRS and the ATF are watching, should you get caught I'll have no sympathy. As a matter of fact I may even turn them your way!

As I said in an earlier post, one member here knew I was in need of 22-mags, he found some and arranged to get them to me at his cost plus shipping. Thats a friend and a member in good standing!

DSessom---Somewhere I have a box of 50AE. Will not go to trouble or expense of shipping, do not understand shipping law so will not get involved. But if you are in this area you can have 19 of them. I only wanted one when I bought the box.

Me 2. I have an unopened bucket of 1400 rds of 22lr that I would sell for $1.00 per round. $1400.00 in the bank baby. Sad thing is there is probably someone out there that would pay that price soon.

Ya, and also someone out there that would take advantage of another person.

Had a discussion the other day the consensus we came to is the ones buying and reselling ammo and firearms in these times are showing no better character than the ones trying to use Sandy Hook to grab our guns.

^ This! I tend to expect better from our so-called fellow hunters and outdoorsmen. Every time I see a case of blatant gouging, I'm reminded of my druggie brother stealing my Aunt's television because he "needed gas money and no one was home". There's no excuse for this type of behaviour other than greed, pure and simple!

As long as there are buyers, there will be sellers. Very basic supply/demand / capitalism.

Isn't that like saying it's ok for your daughter to get a job hooking in Vegas? After all, it's legal and it's all about the money, right?

^ X2

No, it's more like saying: As long as there are buyers, there will be sellers. Very basic supply/demand / capitalism.

WTF!! Toolman where in the hell did that come from? I agree with Mike on this one. Since for most of us ammo is for playing and not a must have , then I dont see where yall are getting the whole GOUGING thing. Quit buying it and the prices will come down. The ones bitching the most are generally the ones causing the problems. If there are so many evil people buying ammo just to make a profit then just quit freaking buying it and leave them holding the bag. Pretty damn simple to understand even for a dumb country boy like myself.

^x2

Where that came from is from pure frustration at A: All of the DB's snagging every round they can get their hands on so they can flip it for a profit, and B: All of the guys who have the attitude that it's just fine and dandy because it's legal. My statement was intended to prove the point that just because it may be legal, that doesn't make it right. I've always expected more from the hunting/shooting community (sort of a "we're all on the same team" deal), but I'm starting to wonder why. It's just a sad little view of where the country is headed...

Toolman, when it comes to guns and ammo, anything anybody does that is legal to someone else is considered morally okay. Now if it is done to you, then morally it is wrong. I will explain more in detail later, I have to get ready to head to Academy in the morning with my load of old farts so we can clean the shelves while you working people are at work.

It is not the people that are selling it that is the problem. It is the people buying it. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

I agree that the people willing to pay these high prices are PART of the problem.

The DB's that are buying up all the available ammo to sell it for a profit are also PART of the problem.

It seems like we're divided as to who should be the group to solve the problem.

Some are saying the DB's should stop being opportunistic profiteers.

Some are saying the people who love to shoot (but assumed there would always be ammo so didn't prepare) should stop doing what they love until the profiteers run out of money or supply catches up.

I'm on the fence. I don't really have a dog in the fight because I am neither a profiteer or unprepared. I do feel bad for the guys that have to give up doing what they love for a time or poney up their hard earned money to the DB profiteers.

I saw the feeding frenzy yesterday at Walmart. It looked like a bunch of women at 4am on Black Friday. I was just waiting for someone to be trampled to death.


It was kind of funny to watch. I was in the store buying a video game for the kids. I went to the ammo counter to see if they had any 380 ammo because my wife is taking her CHL class this month an need a box. The lady said they were out, but a truck came in and there might be some ammo on it. She said it should be out in a little bit. So I waited a few minutes and when I returned to the counter it was a zoo. There was no one in the store except the guys at the ammo counter. I hear one say "she said it would be out here on the hour". There was no way I was waiting around with them. As I walked out, I saw the sporting goods lady rearranging the left over Easter candy.

It would have been fun to see how long they had to stand there before they fought over the one box of 38 special ammo.

[/quote]It is not the people that are selling it that is the problem. It is the people buying it. Why is that so hard for people to understand? [/quote]

Because the people selling it ARE the people buying it. I'm not talking about dealers, I'm talking about the guys standing in line @ Academy with all of their buddies when they open (Dogcatcher and crew ), with the sole intention of snagging every box they can and reselling it. Creating false shortages for profit is wrong IMO, and as long as folks keep confusing profiteering with capitalism, it will never end. People like to talk about these guys getting stuck with a bunch of overpriced ammo or guns, but a lot of these guys are buying it for what EVERYONE would be buying it for if they hadn't gotten to it first. Luckily, I'm not hurting for guns, and I've got enough supplies to load for every gun I own, but when I have a friend telling me that they had to buy .45 ACP ammo out of a guys' trunk @ Academy for $1.00/rd or be forced to cancel his upcoming CCW class, there's a problem.
I'm not trying to step on anyones toes, and I meant no disrespect to MikeW (I don't even know if he has a daughter), I just want folks to realize that this IS a moral/ethics issue and we're standing by watching the bad guys screw over the good guys for a quick buck. There is no ammo shortage, and the manufacturers and most dealers aren't the ones behind the current stupidity. I'd be willing to bet a $100 brick of .22 L.R. that a good bit of the stacks and stacks of ammo for sale at just about any gun show, came from the same stores that most of us would normally shop at, if they had anything left to sell.

A little proactive planning puts you outside all that mess. Most people can't/won't plan for what they'll need in the next day, let alone a few months. So as a result, they go without then complain about it. I refuse to fall into that category.

If one doesn't want to become part of the problems associated with the rest of the herd, plan ahead.

I was at BPS in Grapevine one morning, and I happened across the ammo section, asked what was available and they had some 22LR, .223/5.56, and pistol rounds (9mm, .40, .45) at the gun counter. I needed some .22LR for myself and BIL, so I decided to take a number. I was number 113, and they were calling 93 when I pulled my number.

I watched many of the guys in front of me take 10 boxes of .223/5.56 federal, 10 bricks of 525 .22LR, I guess there was a 10 box limit. When my number came up, I asked for 2 bricks of .22LR and asked if they had any 9mm, but they were out of that. I asked the price on .223 but it was too high to buy, so I walked away with 2 bulk boxes of .22LR. I walked over to check out (you had to make the purchase at the gun counter) and the guy at the counter, several in front of me, was laying out over 1000 cash for the purchase he made. Several bags of ammo.

If these guys flipping ammo wouldn't buy the max every time they could, then there would be more ammo for the rest of us who need a little and then we would be able to pay 21 dollars for a box of 525 instead of 50 plus gas to drive or ship...

I understand capitalism and all that, and I also understand why certain stores have limits on the number of boxes you can get at a time, which is much better than a gov't ban on ammo for sure. However, you can't tell me that what the ammo buyers are doing is totally on the up and up, as I would make a guess to say at least 90% of them are not paying sales tax out of that ammo and they are not claiming the profit they are getting as income.

That hurts all of us in the long run. So I would bet that for the majority of the time, what they are doing is in fact NOT legal.

Bingo...it is hard for some of this generation to fathom the thought of tomorrow or next week though...they can't get beyond the face staring at them in the mirror.

Just FWIW, this comment was not directed at anyone on this forum!

Let's keep in mind the real problem, an overreaching federal government hell bent on disarmament of the populace.

You can't find ammo? You had 5 years to read the warning signs.
You can't afford ammo? You had 5 years to read the warning signs.

Too many people get it in their heads that everything is going to be ok, nothing bad can happen here, etc. Welcome to 2013. The world has changed, and this country has changed. Ammo should be in normal supply by mid-summer, barring another psycho doing some psycho ****. But rest assured, if another one goes off on a rampage, retail pricing will be gone for a very long time. Stock up, or shut up.

Not directed at anyone in particular.

Because the people selling it ARE the people buying it. I'm not talking about dealers, I'm talking about the guys standing in line @ Academy with all of their buddies when they open (Dogcatcher and crew ), with the sole intention of snagging every box they can and reselling it. Creating false shortages for profit is wrong IMO, and as long as folks keep confusing profiteering with capitalism, it will never end. People like to talk about these guys getting stuck with a bunch of overpriced ammo or guns, but a lot of these guys are buying it for what EVERYONE would be buying it for if they hadn't gotten to it first. Luckily, I'm not hurting for guns, and I've got enough supplies to load for every gun I own, but when I have a friend telling me that they had to buy .45 ACP ammo out of a guys' trunk @ Academy for $1.00/rd or be forced to cancel his upcoming CCW class, there's a problem.
I'm not trying to step on anyones toes, and I meant no disrespect to MikeW (I don't even know if he has a daughter), I just want folks to realize that this IS a moral/ethics issue and we're standing by watching the bad guys screw over the good guys for a quick buck. There is no ammo shortage, and the manufacturers and most dealers aren't the ones behind the current stupidity. I'd be willing to bet a $100 brick of .22 L.R. that a good bit of the stacks and stacks of ammo for sale at just about any gun show, came from the same stores that most of us would normally shop at, if they had anything left to sell. [/quote]


Ok so now you have me really confused, which really isn't that hard to do. But you said the people selling it ARE the people buying it. Huh? This crap will end when everyone quits BUYING ammo from the guys that are flipping it. Hell they can buy all the ammo they want and ask what they want but without BUYERS it doesn't make a hill of beans. BUYERS are the problem. I'm not saying I like what some guys are doing but it is America and it is their right. All people have to do is quit BUYING the ammo from the flippers and this crap would end. No BUYERS no sellers!!! They can buy everything off of every shelf but with out BUYERS what are they gonna do with it. It's the people that are bitching about the prices but still pay 80 bucks for a brick of .22s that are the problem. Not the guy selling him the brick

I think he was trying to say the flippers are the ones buying up the store stock...

You are talking about buyers from the flippers. Two different sets of people, which is to blame? Both most likely. However, as I have seen first hand, if the flippers weren't buying up all the store stock, then people wouldn't have to buy from the flippers.

And as Mike said above, we have had ample time to prepare for this and had plenty of warning signs with the current mind set of Washington...

And when the people that werent prepared quit buying from the flippers prices will start going down. Everyone thinks that they have to have ammo right now so they are BUYING from flippers. If ammo is that important to them they should have never been caught with their pants down.

Isnt it illegal to sell ammo and firearms for profit when you dont have an FFL?

Because the people selling it ARE the people buying it. I'm not talking about dealers, I'm talking about the guys standing in line @ Academy with all of their buddies when they open (Dogcatcher and crew ), with the sole intention of snagging every box they can and reselling it. Creating false shortages for profit is wrong IMO, and as long as folks keep confusing profiteering with capitalism, it will never end. People like to talk about these guys getting stuck with a bunch of overpriced ammo or guns, but a lot of these guys are buying it for what EVERYONE would be buying it for if they hadn't gotten to it first. Luckily, I'm not hurting for guns, and I've got enough supplies to load for every gun I own, but when I have a friend telling me that they had to buy .45 ACP ammo out of a guys' trunk @ Academy for $1.00/rd or be forced to cancel his upcoming CCW class, there's a problem.
I'm not trying to step on anyones toes, and I meant no disrespect to MikeW (I don't even know if he has a daughter), I just want folks to realize that this IS a moral/ethics issue and we're standing by watching the bad guys screw over the good guys for a quick buck. There is no ammo shortage, and the manufacturers and most dealers aren't the ones behind the current stupidity. I'd be willing to bet a $100 brick of .22 L.R. that a good bit of the stacks and stacks of ammo for sale at just about any gun show, came from the same stores that most of us would normally shop at, if they had anything left to sell. [/quote]


Ok so now you have me really confused, which really isn't that hard to do. But you said the people selling it ARE the people buying it. Huh? This crap will end when everyone quits BUYING ammo from the guys that are flipping it. Hell they can buy all the ammo they want and ask what they want but without BUYERS it doesn't make a hill of beans. BUYERS are the problem. I'm not saying I like what some guys are doing but it is America and it is their right. All people have to do is quit BUYING the ammo from the flippers and this crap would end. No BUYERS no sellers!!! They can buy everything off of every shelf but with out BUYERS what are they gonna do with it. It's the people that are bitching about the prices but still pay 80 bucks for a brick of .22s that are the problem. Not the guy selling him the brick[/quote]

We all know that if everyone would stop buying overinflated ammo and guns, that the prices would drop and the supply would come back around. The problem is, Mr. Average Joe walks into WalMart to buy a brick of .22 to take his kid plinking, and is told that they are totally sold out, heads to Academy and hears the same story, so he panics and goes and buys that $20 brick from the DB at the gun show for $100, not realizing that that guy bought up all of the stock from WM and Academy in the first place. I heard one such DB, explaining to a potential customer that the reason he was charging $29.99/box for generic .223 WWB ammo was because he was one of their largest dealers (in Loraine, Tx?)and they told him that he probably wouldn't get another shipment until mid-June or later. I just laughed and walked off when the complaining customer asked if he took plastic.

I love these buyer/seller debates.

Firearms = Yes
Ammo = No

Which side of the fence are you on? I blame the buyers.

Which buyers? The first buyers or the second buyers that keep making the first buyers want to keep buying more to sell to the second buyers that buy from the first buyers in the first place?

I blame the manufacturers for kowtowing to the Feds and leaving us consumers high and dry

Yes

Difficult to believe these folks actually make enough money to be worth the trouble.

They are 2 to 3x the regular price
I bought 45 acp the other day 20$ for 50, 5.56 11$ for 20 rds

LOL. I blame the 2nd buyers!

Check out the prices on the clasified here and some other hunting websites. I saw some 223 for 2.5 times the store price on another hunting classified yesterday.

One guy sold a brick of 550 22lr on Gunbroker for $168 + shipping about 2-3 weeks ago.

The only thing that is hard to find around here in bulk is 22. I went into academy yesterday and they had 223, 40, 45, 9mm, 380 and 50 round boxes of 22. I have a ton of ammo but I still picked up a box of 9, 380, and 45...I guess I'm part of the problem but I told myself that from now on if I see it I buy it.

Seems like if one could sell 10, 20 or more boxes at that markup it would be worth the time but just a couple of boxes no. Have to search for ammo at retail locations, wait in the morning, maybe get friends involved because of ammo purchase limits. Then you gotta find ignorant people willing to pay that much.

Just don't see how it can be a sustainable business practice.

I am betting that will continue from now on with a lot of people. If it does then manufacturers will probably have to add capacity. People are going to have closets filled with ammo.

All you have to do is look at what Connecticut is working on and what other states want to do, and it is easy to see a huge black market for bullets being formed in response to legislation. Although I don't like it any more than the next guy, the fact that people are willing to pay such markups is the reason we are having the issue...

The same thing could happen with any staple, take bread for example. Lets say there is a couple of people (lots) who want to buy up all the bread in every store around town. They go in every morning or night (whenever bread is put out) and buy up all the bread on the shelves. They could then sell that bread for significant mark up because people would want bread. However, the issue would never spiral out of control if:
1. there was not a run on bread, for whatever reason. It is hard to manufacture a crisis involving bread, but one could imagine a future time where severe drought or some other cause (wheat gas?) could cause a shortage of supply.

2. people didn't buy the shortage items in large quantities and left some for everyone else to buy. the old adage about camp food applies here: take what you want, but eat what you take.

3. people were not willing to pay a premium for desired goods. if people just said I will eat my salami without bread, the black market for bread would vanish quickly.

So to sum up, a market exists because people can establish one. Until people stop using the market, the market will continue to exist. In the current culture, I find it increasingly difficult to imagine a time when such a market won't exist.

Yup.

Interesting analogy with bread but I see and ammo and food items as two completely different items. Ammo is not needed to live (and neither is exactly bread but is a food item in general).


However, what I meant about sustainable business practice with these "undocumented ammo resellers" is related to the following. The only way they can maintain charging high markups is if they are the only ones with access to ammo. Now that retailers are imposing limits it changes the situation. Plus manufacturers are no doubt going to get caught up with production and may even increase capacity in the coming months. Then there are also a lot of people that just are not going to pay those prices (like myself).

These 2x and 3x resellers I believe are going to be out of a market in the next couple of months. Plenty of idiots are no doubt going to run out of money as well.

Well, I think there is more to the bread analogy than you are giving credit...both ammo and bread are not needed for survival, but if push comes to shove, both are needed for survival.

However, I disagree with your second point all together. When is the last time you saw a fully stocked ammo section? I have witnessed personally and heard many stories of people lining up before stores open and wait for the ammo to be distributed. Lets say I have a job which requires me to be at work when this ammo distribution is taking place, and I can only get to the store after my work hours. But by then, all the ammo is gone. Where am I to get any ammo? Perhaps a black market dealer...I would guess there are many people in that situation right now and that is why the ammo is still selling for high prices, even though the stores are selling it with max quantity per person (ever heard of someone bringing a friend and paying them a kickback?)

Take another example as what is being proposed in CT and other left leaning states with talk of ammo certificates and registries of who can buy ammo. Lets say you were put on the "do not buy list" because you had a mental disorder known as depression, or ADD. If you can't buy ammo at the store, do you think you would pay someone a little more to get some on the market? If you want to keep shooting you sure will.

Keep watching what comes out of the north east and the west coast (don't forget the UN), and you will see a very viable black market thrive...

If the 2nd people buying from the 1st would stop then prices will return to normal. Thats why I blame the buyers not the sellers.

I agree that's the way it has been since nearly the beginning of the year. However, I'm predicting the current reseller markup situation will have notably diminished by the end of July. I just don't see it as being a sustainable business model for these resellers. I saved the link to this thread so we can revisit at a later date.




I agree that part is a worry but I don't see that coming to Texas. In addition, I'll be doing whatever legally possible to put pressure on our government officials so that does not happen here. I also agree ammo availability is a weak point that could be a run around for those attacking the 2nd amendment.

Nonetheless, I look at my Kentucky long rifle a little different nowadays. Sort of happy to have a ball mold and the knowledge on how to make black powder from scratch.

I don't believe these bad things we have talked about are going to happen but my family will certainly be prepared.

I agree that I don't think it will come to Texas, but I honestly didn't think there was enough momentum for any kind of comprehensive gun control law like what was passed through CT. I am just simply shocked that people actually think more laws will help curb law breakers...

At the end of the day, all we can do is prepare for the worst and work toward the best.

I've adopted the same thought process. Luckily, I'm not in a position that I have to have any of it right now, but this nonsense has taught me the days of just going to Wal-Mart or Academy when I need a little ammo to shoot are gone. I'll just be patient and just buy ammo when I find it at normal retail prices.

Brother those are wise words.

It takes 2 to tango, the buyer and the seller in the resale market are part of the problem. The other part is the hoarder, the person that keeps buying ammo even when he has no need for it.

Yup. Words to live by.

So today at BPS Grapevine, there was an ammo shipment that came in overnight and they opened at 9am. Within 15 minutes they had sold out of 9mm. My BIL went to get us some and he had been told by a cousin they were getting some ammo today. I don't know any details about the buying spree, but he did say they sold fast and furious and I have to imagine there were as many people buying for themselves as there were buying to flip.

It is still craziness out there...

everybody is doing that.

Its not illegal you just cannot do it constantly for a living. you can buy and trade up though! Flipping ammo is kind of a grey area. I can sell my personal stock for a profit.

Things are looking better for availability. I saved this thread for comparison.

Still have our guns. And you can buy ammo as well as new guns.

Actually there is a lot of ammo you can't buy anywhere due to unavailability. Just wait and see what we get after Hillary is elected by the millions of illegal aliens who will vote and nothing will stop it.

Just curious what common ammo cannot be readily bought now.

22 mag

I never have a problem getting it Ricky. Just have to know people.

But it's not readily available to everyone

I'm guessing people buying much more 22 magnum than ever expected. Much more than production can keep up. Was it ever a high sales volume round in the last ten years prior to the run on ammo?

Any other common ammo that is difficult to find now?

I never have trouble finding any. You may have to pay a little more or a little less. That is your choice, but is all out there.

The funny thing is I only have trouble finding .22 mag when I HAVE a .22 mag...as soon as I sell my .22 Mag rifle the stuff is everywhere...funny how that works.

Buyer versus Seller threads are so entertaining and someone said it on the first page.......

Basic economics......some understand it and others do not...... Very simple to understand and it runs the world so not sure how some don't get it.

Found some at Walmart yesterday, they had about 10 boxes of it but no Long Rifle.

I am not in Wal mart much but when I am I cruise the ammo counter, rarely do they have any 22lr but maybe some Winchester 100 rd Super X packs.

I was in Bass pro Grapevine yesterday and they had a ton of 22lr, just not any of the Winchester bulk packs I like.

One common round that I often see low or no stock of is .357 Mag.

Really glad I picked up a little at a time while supplies were plentiful and prices low. I'm sure there will be some folks doing some panic buying after this latest incident.

Yipper.

Interesting to read this thread from three years ago.

Hopefully some lessons were learned and folks aren't short of supplies now. Can't help but wonder if the same people panic each time.

I grew up in an area (and era) where you put up a little extra of everything just in case you needed it. No need for hording, but laying in what you need to just to bridge a simple shortage or a bigger emergency - is just common sense.