Electric service options & ???

I recently build a small shop on an adjoining lot to my house (20x20 carport with 10x20 enclosed) and I need to get power to it. My options are trench (solid rock) from the meter service loop on the end of the house OR have a new line/pole dropped about 10-15 feet from the shop. Either path will require a 200 amp breaker box inside the shop.

Option 1: I had the Pedernales Electric Coop (PEC) come out last Friday to take some measurements and stake out where to place the new pole/meter and they are supposed to give me a bid for what that will cost (me providing the meter loop/200 amp main pass through breaker box with 22' metal conduit, $600 pre-made up from several places around the area, but electrician friend said I could buy components and build up myself considerably cheaper???). I am waiting on what that bid will cost (set new pole, ~75 foot overhead wires install along with them installing the provided meter loop).

Option 2: coming off the house (PEC said they would upgrade from transformer to meter on house for 400 amp service for free, I would merely have to get power from current meter location out to the shop), which is roughly 150 foot. I would also have to rent some type of rock trencher and include conduit along with wiring.


Option 1 is by far my preferred path as it would only require 20+/- foot wire/conduit to get into the building, probably enough soil where I can get it covered up without renting a trencher (much less the labor). It will come down totally to the PEC plus meter loop cost.

questions:

1. if I go with option 2, how heavy wire (copper? aluminum?) will I need to have a 150 foot run to carry 200 amp service without too much drop?
2. option 2, I am guessing I will have to also have a 400 amp pass thru at the house that splits 200 into current house main breaker box plus a 200 amp pass thru main break box to feed out to the shop.


The price difference of option 2 might be a wash by the time I buy 150' of heavy enough wire, plus conduit, plus trencher, plus any additional pass through breakers that would be required.

thoughts???

Stick with option 1 setting a new pole. I would use copper from there to the panel but you may be able to use aluminum. Copper will have less of a voltage drop.

Always do underground if there's a way. Contract a guy with a rock saw to trench it for you. I don't think you'll need anything fancy at the meter, sounds like they will handle the upgrade and connections for you. Use 2/0 copper in gray pvc with long sweeps in the trench. Consider adding signal wiring and water lines in the same ditch.

The copper will be a bitter pill but it will last forever and add value. Overhead wiring will be aluminum, an eyesore, a low clearance problem, and a maintenance problem.

When I added my shop I put 200 amp service to the shop and a 200 amp box for my outdoor kitchen (yet to be built)....I ran almost 200' total. I used heavy aluminum inside 2" conduit 20" to 24" below ground. Link below is what I used. I decided on aluminum for cost over that distance......

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500...18321/202562800

My provider wanted to charge me around $4k for adding poles and then you will have a commercial meter unless you convince them there are living quarters in the shop. I went with a 100 amp underground feed from the house.

thanks for the input ... I am waiting on the price from the PEC on dropping in a pole and installing the meter loop before I go too much farther.

A friend is an electrician and he told me if I am running from the house 150 feet to use 2/0 (or larger for voltage drop over distance) for copper with 3 insulated and one neutral (2/0-2/0-2/0-1), or 4/0 minimum aluminum (4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0) ... (if I remember correctly). HOLY MOLY is copper expensive!!! And most places have either a 500' or 1000' minimum ... only a few with 250'

when I told him that a built up meter loop assembly with 21.5 conduit with weather head & 200 amp pass thru breakbox was $609 from PEC recommended supplier, that I could buy the various components and built it up myself for much less. Now just trying to figure out what all components are needed ...

The price of copper is why I went with the heavy gage al.....

don't guess you have about 150' left over

Electrical supply should cut cable to length for you. They do for me.

I bought 4/4/2 aluminum direct burial and used about 125' from meter to barn. Without looking, I can't remember if it is 4 strand or 3. I do know it is 4.0 with 2.0 ground.

Not sure if enough to meet your needs, but can measure this weekend to get exact amount left. I'm a couple of hours west of you though. PM if interested and I will measure.

do you have 220v at your barn? If so, I would think it would need to be 4 strands (110v, 110v, ground and neutral?)

where is a couple hours west of me? I frequently make trips to Llano, San Saba & Goldthwaite (at least every other month) and Ozona (every 10-12 weeks). My son (ZK315) goes to Junction & Sonora occasionally too.

Yes, I think it is 4 strand, but need to confirm. I'm not there right now, but will be tomorrow evening and will look to make sure. About 30 minutes from San Saba.

ok, let me know ...

The roll I bought was the 4-0/4-0/4-0 aluminum direct burial (Link in my post above) then ran it in 2" PVC (grey) conduit for added protection. That is two black 110v runs and a black/yellow common run. The boxes are individually grounded at the shop, house, and outdoor kitchen.

update ... got the bid back from PEC, $1209.xx. Plus I will have to provide the meter loop/200a breaker box with 21.5' conduit & weather head and 36" pigtails ($609 cheapest I have found already built up). That would drop power about 10 foot from the shop building. That would sure have me a bunch of effort for not too much more cost.

PMK, that is about the same quote I got 2 years ago up here (For 100' extension), including a transformer upgrade. My coop supplied a tech sheet for the required drop pole, should show all the components they want in the drop pole, probably pretty standard components.

Got my wire at an electrical supply house (Elliots) they have many stores I believe, they will cut what you want from a roll. When I priced DIY drop pole, I really didn't see a bunch of savings honestly, after adding up all the components needed, maybe a hunerd iirc

Seems like a fair deal.

I priced out all the component pieces including wire to build up the 200a breaker box with 21.5' conduit & weather head, including wire but not the 3 brackets to mount to the pole (as I wasn't sure what those requirements were) thru Home Depot ... $786.xx using copper wire or $423.xx using aluminum. I have no idea what type of clamps or the cost those are ... but figure those can't be more than $10 each ... puts it less than $160 difference over buying a complete setup ready to install and not having to second guess my electrical abilities, my time to assemble and time to gather everything up (and make another trip or two back to the store since that always happens).

now I just have to get busy with a chain saw for the higher limbs to have the 10' wide clear to ground path they require.

PMK, I've never seen a coop, or elec company allow AL on a drop pole/service entrance set up like that, but you found what I did, not a huge difference for the PITA.

200 amp meter pole at McCoy's should be about $550

200 amp meter pole 21.5' conduit to weather head with pigtails at our local McCoys $625+tax

but just called another place that the PEC gave me as having pre-made up for $580+tax.

first place PEC gave me was $609+tax

I will likely go with one of the two recommendations from PEC since I know they are built to their specs

I have no idea whether AL is allowed for the service meter loop or not (I was merely pricing it out for both) ... as I am not sure what the PEC recommended vendors used either, but figured if PEC recommended, it would meet their requirements

10-4, I bet they have copper. For the price, hardly worth doing the pole yourself anyway.

Better discover your rate prior to pulling trigger. Unless your shop is is producing income, commercial rate will cost you more in long run.

not commercial, will just be residential rates ... and very light usage

bringing this back up for a few more questions ... Got the pole set, meter loop in place, have all the 110v outlets and lights/switches wired and just ran wires from breaker box below meter thru gray PVC conduit into the building and up to a separate 125 amp breaker box inside. All 110v outlets & lights will be on 4 different 20 amp breakers ... and just need to hook up breakers at both ends and welder outlet (50 amp 220v) which will be on it's own 50 amp breaker in the outside meter box (dedicated wires to welder).

for the welder outlet, I know I hook up two legs of 110v (black & red) but does the third leg get connected to the neutral (white) or common ground (green or bare copper)?

Ground!
Remember that 'Neutral' actually carries a current (return), and you DONT want any current present to the frame of a machine (ground).

thanks, that's what I was thinking too but hadn't found a clear cut answer in my searches.