Spike or no Spike?

Don't have a picture, but had an argument with a buddy of mine who shot a deer last weekend (spike only). He was bragging about being the only one to shoot one. He showed me a picture and it had no antler on one side but the other side had a forked horn. I told him that unfortunately it wasn't a spike. He said that a spike is anything with 1 or 2 antlers... I say he's wrong, what do you folks say?

If it didn’t have a spike, it ain’t a spike.

A spike is an non branched antler. A single antler with 2 or more points in sure as heck not a spike.

This.

x2

your "buddy" probably in for a treat if he brings it to the processor

This has east Texas written all over it.

You could settle the argument once and for all... hehe.

No thanks....

Right out of the outdoor annual;
During the Special Late Season, harvest is restricted to antlerless deer and unbranched antlered bucks. An unbranched antlered buck is any buck deer with an antler having no more than one point.

Your 'friend' earned himself a visit by not reading the regulations.

Hmmm, now it you want to get technical about it I guess it is possible he did follow the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law. The book also defines a "point" as over 1 inch long. If the fork/point is less than 1 inch it could still be a legal deer, but that is getting kind of off in the weeds.

In an ETX county, I am pretty sure that would be an illegal deer. Not a spike, because you don't know how many points the other antler had before it broke off or fell off.

If its gone it is gone and does not count.

Exactly my point...no pun intended.

I hear banjos.

Funny but not east Tx. Near Wichita Falls

It doesn't have to have both spikes intact to be legal. it just have to have unbranched antlers. I believe it has been discussed before, broke off with no remaining points is technically a spike and broke off flush is in branched.

I believe you are wrong. Broke off flush is no longer an antler, and therefore is no longer an unbranched antler. The one remaining antler would have to be unbranched for it to be a spike. An antler that may have been previously branched, but was broken off to now be an unbranched antler...you may have an argument, but is definitely not in the spirit of the law.

Yes and unbranched in the book as I understand it can have a fork so long as neither side is greater than 1 inch and length and still be considered in the eyes of the law unbranched.

And other areas.

The whole 'spike' thing is what throws folks, spike was removed from the regulations,,, 2 seasons ago.
Effective Sept 1 2016;
“Special Late Antlerless and Spike-buck Season” replaced with a “Special Late Season” for antlerless deer and “unbranched antlered bucks.”

Before that the definition of a spike was and always had been;
A "spike buck deer" is a Buck with no antler having more than one point.
Some folks used the term incorrectly for generations to describe any buck that had any antler with one point.

The regulations changed to branched vs unbranched antler, to help eliminate confusion.
Branched antler has more than one legally defined point, unbranched has only one legally defined point.

It is a very good idea to read at least " whats new for this year " & your county regulations every year.

I had a buddy pass on a buck last weekend because he was knocked off on one side and my buddy didn't know if it was legal. Called the game warden when we went into town, and the GW said he was legal. Said he couldn't base a judgement off what the deer might have looked like had that side not been broken off.

A one antlered buck would be legal as long as the antler remaining is unbranched.
If the remaining antler is branched then it wouldn't be.

Looks like this is going to be one of those vague rules that gets left up to interpretation until it comes before a judge. I asked the game warden flat out, about one specific deer, that had one side branched and the other missing completely. The game warden said he woudn't write a ticket for that.

why you all shooting young bucks anyway

The GW must have misunderstood the question, unless you're using mldp tags the regulation is clear.

During the Special Late Season, take is restricted to antlerless and "unbranched antlered" deer. An unbranched antlered deer is a buck deer with at least one antler that has no more than one point.

Anytime you want a 100% accurate answer you can send a question to TPWD.
Select Game Warden ( law enforcement) ---> TPWD to ensure your question gets to the proper place.

Indeed. That's a big deer for east Texas.

Yep, where the road goes on forever and the season never ends

After re reading the book, I may have been wrong. It sounds like you can shoot a buck deer during the late season if it has one antler on one side and damn 15 on the other.... they need to make this more clear for this coming season.

They are, used to it had to be a true spike, slick horns on both sides now you can shoot 3 poinst etc. just so long as one side is slick.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the impression Rustler has some education in this area, and potentially a full time job dealing directly with matters like this...

I'm going to go ahead and take his advice.

Not trying to be a horses butt, I don't see how it could get any clearer.

During the Special Late Season, take is restricted to antlerless and "unbranched antlered" deer.
An unbranched antlered deer is a buck deer with at least one antler that has no more than one point.

This one is a 1x2.

Most GW will get pissy with that one if its a fresh break, they will press charges and take their chances.

For clarity’s sake. Not a fresh break. The bone left behind 5 3/4” long, the other 16 2/8” the tip to tip inside spread is 14” and the widest point inside is 14 3/8” bases are 3 3/4” no matter what county, it looks like “knife handle” is a legal deer. He weighed in 165#s and aged 4.5. Never had more than 4 points. deer with short or absent brow tines are culls at 3.5 on this Webb County ranch. Oh yeah, started as a small bodied 3” spike on one side and a 1/4” splinter on the other. He was chasing a doe and lost her to a big 11pt the morning the savage 10/110 in Winchester 270 hit him in the neck at 75yrds. By the way. I do believe there has to be something protruding from his head to make a deer a legal spike.

Do you have experiences based on this? It matters zero if that buck broke off that antler 20 seconds before he got shot, at that point he is legal.

Depends on the GW, otherwise guys could break the antler with a hammer to make them "legal". I've seen tickets attached to carcasses in the cooler at the processor, they had fresh breaks, you would have to argue it in court.

One of the keywords in this post is court, another is judge.

ell him to run it by the local Game Warden........ he'll know

Would be up to the Warden to prove the antler was intentionally broken after the shot. If he can't prove that, there is no case.

Any game warden that gets pissy about this kill has never tried to manage a lease. That is a cull buck in any county in the state.

Part of the rules changes next year is to clarify the AR rule, I do wonder if the re-wording to push through citations for broken antler bucks like the scenario above. I know our warden has written ticket for bucks like that but I have no clue if those citations were ever thrown out, my guess is the judge usually sides with the warden.

The real deal is, very few GW's are going to say for sure it is legal from that picture.
It certainly appears to be a properly tagged broke off buck that meets the one side unbranched requirement.

Even in person a GW is going to gather more information (ask questions) and look closely at that broke off antler before coming to a conclusion.

It has nothing to do with 'cull buck'.
If your a person that believes it is just fine, no big deal to break, saw, cut, lop off, sand smooth or pack dirt / mud to conceal an antler that was made into one point after the kill you are the kind that needs a visit.
Killing an illegal deer isn't a sound management practice.

Who is said this? I don't think anybody on this board condones breaking antlers to make a buck appear legal.

Bottom line is if buck in picture stepped out as seen in picture, it is a legal buck all day long and I'm shooting that deer.

The game warden can believe whatever he wants to believe, it is not my responsibility to prove I abided by the law. It is up to the game warden to prove otherwise.

I almost always takes pictures of every decent buck I see before I shoot or before I let me son shoot. So a photograph of the questionable buck with the broken antler before the shot, should help clarify.

If the antler was broke below the for or had some left at all he would pass as a spike... if it was true just gone even with the skull no its not a spike

Thats fine but without proof or a confession nothing will come of it so most that have been in the field a while wont press it.... especially on a deer like that which was clearly wide enough and old enough to begin with

I owe you an apology, seems I let other responses in other threads of the same topic cloud my better judgement and make rude uncalled for statements.
In those other threads, many responses kidding or not make reference to stomping, breaking, sawing, cutting antlers to make a deer "legal".

Not offering an excuse, my apologies.

Misunderstanding, it happens, no worries man. Apology not necessary but appreciated.

I could see how one could interpret what I was saying as you did initially.

Word

I've posted this on other threads, but I spoke to a GW about this exact scenario. He told me that deer would be a legal spike as long as there was no evidence the hunter broke the antler off to make it legal.

I wanna know how many GW’s would write the ticket. I’m sure there are some, but being reasonable, the deer would certainly look like a a spike through a scope. Seriously if one side had barely forked and the other side didn’t look like an antler then 99 times out of 100 it’s a spike. It was a very easy mistake to make and a ticket would be a bit of a technicality.

I doubt any GW would write a ticket after looking at the buck & making a determination it wasn't a hunter caused fresh intentional break.
From a picture you can't determine that either way.

One problem is the continual misuse of the term 'spike' and the main reason the regulations changed 2 season ago to unbranched.
When the term spike was included in the TPWD definitions it was " a buck deer with no antler having more than one point".
1 x 1 or 1 x 0 = spike.
1 x 1 or 1 x 0, or 1 x anything = at least one unbranched antler.

rules seem pretty clear to me....didnt realize there was so much of an issue

What if that buck broke it off ten minutes before he shot it?? Could happen......

It could happen. Especially during the rut.