Question about the neighbors

Arrived at camp Friday to find the neighbors had dumped the remains of a small doe they had shot and cleaned against the fence along side or camp. We've had similar problems in the past where they've dumped predators along the fence for the bodies to stink and rot. Are lease is 650 acres and this location along the fence is the only area with electric and water. They own and live on the property adjoining us and it's much smaller only about acres. They hunt and have 3-4 stands on the property.
We've called the game warden and he said because they own the land and were leasers there's nothing he can do about it. I asked him why it's not considered hunter harassment and his reply was they weren't harassing us while we were hunting. I've read the law and my understanding is that doesn't matter that camping is considered a prepatory action and is included in hunter harassment.
There are 4 of us on this lease and we all have small kids 5-11 and like to bring them down. It's kind of hard to convince a small child hey lets go down to the lease and smell a rotting carcass all weekend.
So I guess my question is what other legal avenue do I possibly have to stop this action?

Their place is 55 acres.

Here's what the law states:

(c) No person may intentionally interfere with another person lawfully engaged in the process of hunting or catching wildlife.

(2) “Process of hunting or catching” means any act directed at the lawful hunting or catching of wildlife, including camping or other acts preparatory to hunting or catching of wildlife that occur on land or water on which the affected person has the right or privilege of hunting or catching that wildlife.

Might be time to talk to your land owner and then to a lawyer. This all legal stuff since your neighbors are a-holes.

Have you actually talked to them and let them know this is irritating you?

Was the doe tagged? Was there wasted meat on the Doe?

The game warden talked to them and they informed him they would continue to do this because we are MLD III and that the state gives us the right to kill every buck in the area. Which indicates his level of intelligence. He told us when we got on this place he did not believe in shooting any does and if we did we'd quit seeing deer.

There was no tag on the doe. All the meat except the neck had been taken. The warden was told the owners grandson shot the deer of course he wasn't present when the warden talked to the owner.

I'm not following this. Neighbor said if you shoot does on your lease, you would stop seeing does. So he shoots does, even though he doesn't believe in it, and leaves the rotting carcus near your camp? And how does his misinterpretation of the MLD III status play into this?

There are plenty of ignorant jerks out there that like being jerks...in fact they take great pleasure in being jerks....and believe me...they KNOW they are being jerks...

I would talk to the person you lease from before you spend all your money on a lawyer. He needs to deal with the neighbors or risk losing money from his lease

yep

I would say move on and find a new lease. It will never end for you guys. They own the 55 acres and you know they're not going anywhere.

Or this! I was on a bad lease last year and changed...what an amazing difference it makes being on a good lease with good people!

He told our landowner that it's sad that after two days of hunting that was all his grandson could shoot. Which our landowner knows is not true because the neighbor has an oat field you can see from our camp. Every evening there are multiple deer in that field.
He doesn't believe the state knows what they are doing when it comes to managing deer and that if you kill does there will not be any deer left. Our land owner has sat down with him and showed him all the records we keep and explained what we are doing he doesn't believe it's correct. The sad part is we are actually starting to see some difference especially in our young bucks and does.

Can't teach stupid...

This could be part of your troubles. Your camp location may not be helping the hunting on his oat field or he at least perceives it that way. Move your camp location off the boundary fence somewhere out of site from his property, then he can't dump carcasses next to your camp anymore. If he still continues to dump carcasses there, put up a stand at the old camp site dedicated for predator calling and call it the lemonade stand.

Unfortunately the current location is the only on the property with water and electric. You can see the field but it's probably 600 yards away.

You can't change those who are willfully ignorant.

The neighboring landowner(s), while morally wrong to dump carcasses where they KNOW it will offend....are not 'legally' out of bounds just yet. And frankly, there is little you can do about it.

You'd have a hard time making a successful 'hunter harassment' case out of it at this point.

I'd find another lease and start enjoying yourself and your efforts again.

it is a no win situation IMO - if you find a way to make him stop doing this he will find something else to bug you with - I would be lease hunting for next season come first of January

Now I understand. That's a tough situation.

Eh, it kinda sucks, but leaving a carcass on the ground isn't really a legally enforceable offense, in my opinion, as long as he's appropriately harvested the meat. Do you not have vultures and yotes where you hunt? When I leave a carcass, it's GONE (no trace) in a day.

I think you're in a lose/lose situation here. You successfully get LE to make him quit with the carcasses? You're gonna start finding your stuff gone or destroyed or he'll start driving fence lines during prime hunting hours. I understand how the hunter harassment laws read, but there's 2 sides to every argument and in court you may have a much more difficult time proving he didn't need to check his fences and that was when he had spare time. The law protects both sides.

In summary, you may just need to move on.

On one hand how bad could the smell be? We dump our guts a 100 yards from camp and the buzzards and coyotes keep it cleaned up before it really starts to stink. I would probably find a way to hang a rope or something over the fence and drag it off/under the fence and relocate it to another gut pile. Sounds like talking to him isn't going to get you anywhere.

He's trying to push your buttons, and sounds like he's accomplishing his agenda. Upside is, you've got access to 650 acres, he's only got his 55, so having your camp near the point of contention is better, leaving your remaining leased land non accessible to the neighbors 'games'. First key is learning to breath, or move along if the smell keeps you from breathing?

Ok then, Keep a pump sprayer in camp with some of this mixed up in it.
http://www.lcsupply.com/mobile/Odormute-Pet-Odor-Eliminator/productinfo/MUTE/
When you arrive spray any recent carcasses over the fence to kill the smell. Also put some sheets of plywood along the fence at camp for a windbreak.

We have a good amount of deer on our property, but on certain days (sometimes several in a row) we don't see many (if any) deer. No doubt the landowner wanted success for the grandson, so his frustration (though misplaced) is somewhat understandable.



I'm not defending the landowners actions (dumping the carcass) or his assessment of the States management practices, BUT...what he said sounds like a reflection of how hunting practices (on adjoining properties) affects his Deer Density. Remember, he has only 50 acres (not all of that huntable).
On a good day (depending upon where your lease is), he won't be seeing a lot of deer. His 'resident' herd is sure to be very small so he depends on spill-over from your lease.

So while we all know that good management practices includes taking 'Does', that assumes there is a healthy number of deer on the property to begin with. While that might be true on YOUR place, that isn't necessarily the case on his. Not your fault and not your problem. The problem for your neighbor is that he has a small parcel of land (hence fewer deer under any circumstance).



That is his 'willful' ignorance showing. He is trying to apply his experiences (small land owner) to that of a larger property and doesn't (or won't) recognize that each should be managed differently.



Well...I don't know what your management practices are or if they are appropriate for your area, but I'll take you at your word. Typically, (unless you're under high fence) 650 acres is still a small piece of land on which to manage (to much effect), save for age structure. You simply can't adjust the buck/doe ratio enough to make much of a difference. But you CAN let deer 'mature'.

I don't see any 'give' coming from your neighbor, so if the situation becomes unacceptable, I'd be looking for a new lease next year.

If your land owner is a willing participant and a schemer tell him to tell the neighbor he is considering High Fencing that boundary if he doesn't stop his shenanigans.

^^^^^ Not a bad idea.

You have already wasted way too much time and put in way too much effort in attempting to make this a palatable situation. You hunt to enjoy yourself and this distraction is obviously interfering with your ability to do just that. I don't care how good a lease is, if you can't deal with the situation your in, find another lease, it's that simple. I suspect you fret over this all the time, especially as deer season approaches. It's just not worth it, finish the year, fill your tags and find a new place to hunt.

Thanks for all the reply's I really do appreciate everyone. What's funny is this is a family lease and by that I mean we all bring our wives and kids down to enjoy, all the kids are 6-11 and love going down and we were all pretty sure when the wives got down and got a whiff they'd be all for making a move...... Turns out us guys were more receptive to moving on then they were. They're pretty insistent on staying.

I appreciate the tip about the spray, we actually asked the game warden about putting line on the carcass and we were told it was criminal trespass same response to us dragging it across the fence and disposing of it. We do have vultures but they typically don't come that close to camp. I've only seen 1 coyote in the last 4 years same story with hogs.

Guess you are lucky not having too many yotes. I dump everything 50 yards from camp and it is gone by the next morning. They leave nothing. But would never dump something near anyone else. Can you burn it?

How would anyone know if a coyote or a human drug it off?

I'm just saying it would disappear if I were in your position.

Yeah, who's to say a coyote didn't drag it up on the neighbors front porch?

Good luck

I know you stated that's where the electric is, but can you not run a line 1-200 yds away from the fence line? I don't understand why people put [censored] up on the neighbors fence line, then get upset when that neighbor does something they don't like. You'd likely be upset if they put a camp on your fence line, & them & their wives/kids started hanging out 2 feet away from your property.

I'd either move my camp 100 yds or get off the lease.

I agree with you 100% I would love to move the water/electric. Unfortunately where we are located is along our northern boundary of course right on the fence. Just to our south and west is a large drop off to a creek and pond. When we first got on the place I inquired with the land owner about running the utilities down the hill to a nice area with a lot of shade along the creek away from the neighbors. The owner quickly informed me all that area floods once every 5 or so years. The drop off runs parallel to the north property fence so if we go west we'd still be along the same fence if we stayed out of the flood area.

Playing devils advocate here, Why did you build camp right up against the neighbors little 55 acre country hunting oasis? You ruined their place where they used to could get away from it all. You could have built in the center of the 640.

Could be their view of this situation...

We didn't build there. It was an existing deer camp in the past. The neighbor built a house on his 55 acres 2 years after we leased it. It had been a deer camp for years prior to us leasing the property.

The field is probably much closer than it appears. One side of 55 acres square is about 515 yds. Their property would have to be very long and narrow and the field very small for the edge of their field to be 600 yards away. It is obvious your neighbors are trying to entice you to move your camp. We see such feuds talked about all the time on the forum here because of stands on fencelines that include suggestions of dumping gut piles, driving or parking on the fenceline, putting up opposing stands, etc. All as a way to entice neighbors to give up and move a stand. I would suggest to call a parlay with your neighbor. Tell him exactly what you told us about your camp location situation, so he understands why it is located where it is. Use the same "think of the children" angle in explaining why you have the deer lease. Maybe y'all can come to some kind of compromise or understanding by communicating.

You've got 650 acres, they don't. I wouldn't go anywhere.

I think the 3.5 years I lived in east Texas must have stuck with me

wait for a favorable wind and strike a match

Simple fix, and it's called extension cords and water hoses.
Move off the fenceline as far as possible or look for another lease.

You have 3 options

1). Do nothing. Leave your camp there & continue to see/smell their dump ground
2). Move your camp
3). Find a new lease

Its entirely up to you

He probably knows its bothering yal so he keeps doing it. Its not really hurting you, let the sleeping dog lay and it will probably go away.

+1 on this.

Posting your lease information would also help those who don't have a weak stomach and that are looking for a lease.
I agree with what those who said ignore it, and it will eventually go away.

Move the camp 100 yards from the fence. Your not talking about a lot of money to run the electricity 100 yards further. Ask the landowner to split the cost with you.

The only direction we can move because of topography is south and if we were to move we would be in a flood plain and according to the landowner that field floods about once every five years.

You have two choices, Put up with it OR get off the lease and find another one. Make the decision so that you can start enjoying your deer hunting time again.

What the guys said. Move camp or change lease. It's beginning to sound like your full of excuses because you're not getting the answer you like.

My original post asked if there were any legal options anyone knew to make the moron across the fence stop dumping dead bodies next to our camp.

Moving camp or changing leases are not legal options to stop this action. Dispite our lack of MENSA membership we're quite capable of discerning those options.

My "excuses" were an attempt to explain why moving camp is physically not possible.

I was hoping others who may have had similar experiences may know other applicable laws that would apply when someone intentionally dumps rotting body's near others possibly endangering human health.

But the "moron" across the fence isn't breaking the law. He has a right to use his property as he sees fit, without breaking the law, same as you. There is nothing you can do to FORCE him to quit doing what he's doing.

So the short answer to your question is apparently "NO".

You could just go over and ask him yourself and try to work something out. You could also pay him off. You could whip his [censored] next time you see him at the feed store. You still have options.

I would just move the carcuss. A shovel and plastic bag is not too hard.

Your landowner should of expected problems putting the camp right next to the fence line of his neighbors hunting. Like putting a hunting blind there; not illegal but not neighborly.

Hire a lawyer and seek professional advise instead of posting your questions here.
Everyone here for the most part has given solid advise using common sense.
What you are asking for, only a lawyer can answer.

Please don't hire an attorney for this bs. It would only waste your time and money.

Read his post above where he is asking if there are legal options. Sounds like he is hoping there is a lawyer here that will give free legal advise.

Cool and I'm saying I think its worthless to get an attorney involved in this. Its going to take money out of his pocket and not get him anywhere.

yep

It sounds more like a feud where neither side is willing to give in no matter what, but what the heck? Just more reading to kill time!

Go buy a bag of lime and cover each carcus when they appear. If the neighbor calls the law you all can have a little discussion to settle the matter.