Age these please

I hunt on an MLD property and sent our biologist pictures of these 2 deer to get his thoughts on the age. I agree with one but the other I'm not too sure of. What is yall's take? I'll post his answer after I get a few from yall.

Top picture this is his 4th or 5th set of antlers

Bottom 2nd or third set of antlers he has grown. Leaning towards only his second set.

Maybe 3 on the first one.

Top deer is 4.

Bottom deer is old enough to cull. He looks 2 or 3, but could be much older. I've killed a couple 9-10 year old deer that had bodies like the one in the bottom photo.

4.5 on the first one. Second buck not sure. Maybe older than he looks.

3.5-4.5 pass
2.5-3.5 shoot if legal unless you think you need him

Our biologist told me the first one is 3.5 and the second one is 1.5

I thought 4.5 on the first one but I can see 3.5, I thought the second one was about 2.5-3.5 and would be a good cull candidate, but he doesn't want us to even take culls under 4.5. I don't really agree with that and it goes against using MLD as a herd management program, but hey that's the rules.

Cull on the second.

Dates? Whole pictures?

Zooming them in can be deceiving.

If that second deer is 1.5, he's a really good yearling. Yes, his neck is thin and his head is small, both of which suggest youth, but his body suggests more than just 1.5 (at least to me). It could be possible he was a very old fawn last season, having been born somewhere between October 2014 and March 2015, and has a jump on some of his peers by 6-8 months. I would compare him to the other yearlings you have and see what you think. Do you have pictures of those?

4.5 on the first
2.5 on the second

Here are the pictures not blown up. Someone changed the name on my camera so I figured i'd crop it out in the original ones I posted.

I deleted most of my pics with yearling deer, but here are some younger ones I have.

camera name -

Your biologist may be correct with his 3.5 and 1.5 now that I can see them zoomed out. I still think the second deer is at least 2.5 but I'm no biologist. Bottom line on an MLD ranch, listen to the biologist. You'll never win that argument on a live deer.

3.5 & 2.5

I was thinking 1.5 on small buck and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 onbigger deer.

Yea what he says goes whether I agree or not. Its not like these deer are anything to get too excited about. I'm more interested in being able to take 3.5 year old culls, but we have an age limit of 4.5. I'm guessing he's trying to get the overall herd age higher maybe??

How much control does the biologist really have? I thought it was more or less recommendations, not mandates?

Sounds like he's trying to increase the buck/doe ratio or simply protect younger bucks. If the herd is at or below carrying capacity and sex ratios are balanced, I cull starting at 2 1/2 based upon score and points, not age. If a deer reaches 4.5 on our place and isn't at least 140 inches, he's a cull.

Culls
2.5 less than 8 points or 85".
3.5 less than 9 points or 115".
4.5 less than 9 points or 140".

There are exceptions, but these are my culling guidelines.

huntinfortail in bonerforest! good looking deer by the way.

If i were the land owner and had signed up for the mld program myself, then the biologist would really have no control except for how many tags i'd get, but this is a timber company lease. The timber company requires us to be on MLD. They hired a forestry management company that does a number of different things for their properties including having a biologist that handles the MLD and hunters. He also acts as a lease manager for all the timber companies leases. He is the person we pay our dues to and give our contracts to and then he goes to the land owner with it.

Every year when we get the harvest data back for all the different leases owned by our landowner and managed by our biologist, there are many shot at 2.5 and 3.5. He wants us to take 4.5 and up. Obviously if we did our diligence and made a mistake, he would probably not care if we shot a younger deer. If we filled all our buck tags with 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer consistently, he might have a reason to not renew our lease and find another group.

The top buck has the head profile of a mature buck and the body of a middle-aged buck-3 or 4.
Bottom buck looks like a 2 yr old to me. He has to much shoulder and brisket mass to me for a 1 yr old. If you can get him standing next to what you think is a yearling it will tell you more. I have his twin that is a 6 pt and same antler shape. He was next to a 3 pt yearling and I can tell he is a year older.
Deer in every age class do not weigh the same or look the same at the same age. Just a fact of nature. Some are short and blocky while others are long and lanky. The long and lanky ones never look their age like the short and blocky ones.
What I have learned is that most people look at antlers and age the body after. They let antler size sway their age thoughts. I also see most people who do this age deer a year or two younger than the deer actually is.
Best bet on aging them is to see them live and in color. See how they interact with other bucks around them. Seeing one or two black and white IR nighttime images makes it difficult to age from. Take some video of them and go back to the house and review them later. Changes perspective a lot of times.