Doe Management?

Wondering how you guys pick which does to take out of the herd. Do you just look for the oldest, fattest doe you can find or is there a real thought process behind it. I'd like to take a couple out this year but want to leave plenty of buck lure out there. Is there a difference in the heat cycles of old vs young? Ability to carry twins? Does either give off a stronger estrus scent and are the bucks attracted to one over the other or do they even care? Thanks in advance for all the advice.

interesting topic, I have always thought maybe early season was best time to reduce the risk of shooting 3 deer with one shot, pregnant with twins. I know that may be over thinking it but have just always kind of wondered if anyone took that into consideration. Also what about bow season when a doe has fawns with her? I was about to let an arrow fly on a doe last weekend but while I watched for a while to let them get nice and calm, the fawn tried to nurse. I do not know if the doe was still producing milk but it made me decide to wait another week or two or maybe find one without fawns. I'm not trying to steal the thread but just wanted to add to the discussion.

When bow hunting I shoot the 1st doe that presents a good shot. Gun hunting I'll take the biggest doe in a group.

JR

snow... I agree with you on the pregnancy thing. I've always thought they should have the doe and spike season before the general season instead of at the end. Doesn't make any sense to me to be shooting does in mid Jan and if you're going to take the spikes for management reasons then before the rut would make more sense. One of the does I'm looking at is considerably bigger than the others and looks like she might be nursing.

There are several reasons to keep the large mature does on your place....the biggest reason is does pass down genetics as well.

Depends on your situation. If you only have to kill a few, you can be choosy about looking them over and taking does that suit you.

If you have a bunch to kill and few hunters to do it, a doe is a doe, regardless of age. We've got to kill 40 this year and I'll probably shoot at least 25 of them. A doe fawn will get shot just as quick as a mature one. We're MLD and I should have already killed at least 10, but I can't go during the week and we've had one heavy and two moderate rains at the ranch the past three weekends. Getting around that area of Webb Co. is very difficult when it's wet. Plus, it tears some of the roads up.

We used to hunt bucks first and then fill our license/allotment out later in the year with does, but after reading some of STX' posts I've come to think you ought to be shooting does as early as possible so your bucks don't waste time/effort impregnating a doe that you're going to shoot.

As for which ones to shoot, if you're under a management plan you ought to shoot the oldest ones first as those are least likely to have the genetics you've been trying to propogate. Of course that depends on the amount of time you've been managing-there might be some older does that have great genetics.

I like to shoot dry does if possible, or does with single or large fawns. I try to leave does that have small/young fawns that might still be nursing and can use mama to keep them pointed in the right direction.

I've tried the bucks first approach, too. stx partially convinced me of the opposite tact several years ago. What really solidified as many does as possible early for me was trying to kill does during and long after the primary rut. They go underground big time on our place during that period.

A lot depends on the ranch, the location in the state and population numbers. I will shoot does differently on a ranch that has not been managed compared to one that has been managed. I will shoot does at a different time of the season in South Texas compared to the Hill Country. What age doe I select is totally dependent on what the buck side looks like and if the ranch has been managed. Like posted above, if you have a lot to shoot then if it is brown it is down. As far as killing a bred doe or lactating doe, I will not make a lot of difference IMO. All does should be bred during the season. If you have a bad buck to doe ration then no telling who or what is doing the breeding. If you have a good buck to doe ratio a buck is not breeding that many does in one season. If he is mature then he has bred a few does over the year, so it still not critical. What you do with the does on a ranch can shape it for the future years. I am firm believer you can do more for your deer herd with doe management then continue in the future killing select does and bucks off. If you are doing things right your younger deer will be better than their parents.

Not to mention that young does seem to have a higher % of buck vs. doe fawns in well balanced herds.

Yes they do. That dictates what you are wanting do after a survey when you start to manage a place.

That's great information. You guys are a wealth of information as always.

appreciate the info - you guys got me thinking to reverse and start after the does first

On my lease we only take 2 to 3 a year so not picky. At other places, try to get an older one.

One of the most overlooked aspects of management ...

I try to shoot the "smart" doe, the one who is hanging back, most cautious and usually the last to present herself. I find that these does are usually the "old" doe of the group.
These are usually the 4.5+ year old flavor.

**the last one I shot that fit the description above was 6.5/7.5

If they are bunched up in a group, I pick one that has a long nose or what I call a "big bird" doe

We have too many as only about 15 killed last year on 6000 acres with 20 hunters. In bow season I try to kill.late mornings if possible.

I practise the STX method in the hill country and with our management program that has been in place for 8 yrs we now harvest our doe numbers early in the season utilizing archery so the harvest is very quite. I harvest enough doe to keep the ratio at 1/1.5 and this is calculated by our surveys that we do in August and September. I do not include any fawns in our surveys due to the inability to be accurate on sexting. I choose to harvest older doe that appear to be barren or without a fawn/fawns. I also find that by harvesting your doe early in the season if your ratio is well balanced your bucks dont tend to break up as bad. Just my practise!

If you need to take them dont worry about the details... fawns are old enough to take care of themselfs by then.. doe is a doe and population control is more important.. on small places and new places you can be more careful.. if you have a doe that has twins and one that has a single then its obvious.. if you notice one that has bucks more than others then keep her... thats just my opinion... I mainly look for doe that are barren or have female fawns with them.. i have a very high doe ratio... this leads me to give every buck the chance to get some age to him.

But if you have a certain number you need to meet this nit picking isnt helping you need to get it done and dont get hung up on the details

There's a good article on effective doe harvesting in the current (November) issue of Deer and Deer Hunting magazine. The author, a retired wildlife biologist, explains the logic behind his recommendations on how to approach selective harvesting of doe.

Sometimes in certain situations, I'll do this too. But every so often, I get a VERY territorial doe that whips up on all there other deer and tries to run all the young bucks off. This is the one I'll let the air out of in those instances.

But like others have said, it just depends on the situation.

What did the article say? I can't find it online.

Couple of the does I'm looking at...

Get 'em, TP!

What is your buck to doe ratio? What is the CC for your area? What is your fawn crop like this year? Lot of unknowns.

I target largest does unless they have a fawn in tow.

I target the ones with twins most of the time if I am dealing with an over-population problem. I prefer a single fawn raised by a young doe. Bigger fawn most of the time at the same age as a doe with twins. I also shoot does after Thanksgiving in my area down south since fawns are old enough to survive on their own. I also believe that if a buck fawn is orphaned he will stay closer to his/mothers home range longer in life.

This is my first year on the lease and I've only had feeders and cameras set up for a little over a month. The guys that have been on a while say it's basically 1:1 and they never really see any doe at their feeders. Apparently they must all hang out on my side of the ranch as I've see up to 10 at a time on camera and have only been able to identify 4 different bucks. I'm used to hunting in the hill country where seeing 20-30 does in an afternoon was not uncommon so I'm not quite sure what to think about the rolling plains. At this point I'm targeting those old does with the protruding ribs. I figure it's time for them to pass the torch.

But, do you need to shoot any does? Has there been any survey done to verify the ratio? If you have all the does then you will have a lot more bucks when the rut starts.

I like big fawn crops, so I tend to target young does. On 460 low fence acres, we aren't going to change the genetics by selectively culling. The more buck fawns I can put on the ground each year, the greater the number I can recruit to maturity.

I prefer younger does raising one fawn. Research has shown that younger does raise more buck fawns. Younger does should carry your better genetics. So, younger does raising one single buck fawn is my preference. Does not always work that way but has worked well for me in the past.

STX when you say younger does that are raising one buck fawn are your prefernce are you saying your preference to keep or to shoot?

Once you are happy with the way the young bucks look or they all look in all age classes I would then target all older does and leave the younger ones to breed. The younger ones are related much more closely to your bucks than the older does will be. Also more does will not always dictate more fawns. Less does can raise the same amount of fawns when the herd is kept at CC.

got ya that makes since.