Son of a...

Yesterday a fellow lease member posted up a pic of the "cull buck" that his son took last season while nobody else was around. This is not an AR county (it's hill country) and we were told to take spikes and "inferior bucks" by the land owner. Is it wrong of me to get a little PO'd about this one? What if I was told at the time it was it had no spread and looked like an antelope?

If you have rules and the rules are not followed then you have the right to be upset. This could be an opportunity to educate him on what a yearling looks like and try to make it a positive. We put up game camera picks at our lease and have a sort of hit list of culls and that seems to help some.

LarryCopper I'm going to intentionally dodge your question. However, speaking for me, I would not have taken that yearling, and if I were with my son or daughter, I would have had them pass on it also.

In his defense it does kind of resemble the antelope look.

We meant the rack, not the skinny long face and body!

I take it the claim for it being inferior was due to no brow tines?

Good looking yearling buck there, should definitely not have been shot. If those are the guidelines, and they were expressed to the group that clearly, then I wouldn't be happy about this harvest.

Should not have been shot, JMO.

WOW! That buck is a giant! I bet he tasted pretty good.......

I'd be pissed!

If the kid is allowed to shoot a deer what would you prefer him to take? The largest Buck on the lease or that one?

In my humble opinion this young buck could have had potential. The guy with the fake mustache should not have taken this deer.

I would bring it up to the lease manager. That's his/her job to deal with situations like this. It's not worth getting involved bit of damn sure want that guy off the lease this year

I'd FIRST get after him for having muzzle pointing at himself in a pic . . .
Wouldn't want anybody like that around me anywhere anytime . . . .

Wow...

Just had to shoot I guess...Lotta Does need killin

All kids need to get a first deer. I don't much care if that deer is a 1.5 YO 10 pt or a 6 year old cow horn spike or something in the middle. If they are hunting on a place with a management program in place it should fall within the requirements of a management plan.

Places should have management plans that say kill "inferior" bucks without detailing what constitutes inferior bucks. Assuming everyone agrees on that is just putting a big pile of Dog carp in the middle of the walking trail.

I have hunted with my dad and brother for about 25 years and we still differ on opinions about deer we have until we all sit down and hash it out.

I blame the old man for not painting a clear picture of what a cull should look like. My boy has taken plenty of them in the form of old spikes, but I've also taken the time to sit in the blind with him and explain how to judge anything we see. How to determine age on the hoof, etc. It doesn't take long for them to pick it up if you put in the effort.

Did I mention this "kid" is 22 years old and lives at home with no job? We ain't talkin' a 10 year old that got a little trigger happy.

I would tell him to put as much energy into learning about whitetail deer their habitat and management as he's likely put into the AR, scope, and suppressor he has pointed at himself. The only upside is the deer has no indication of brow tines and the lack or presence there of is very heritable.

I'd also establish some rules for culls.

I go back to my original statement. Would you rather that so called "kid" that doesn't look to know much about guns or hunting have taken the largest Buck Deer on your least and it not have meant anything to him. Or shoot the one he did?

Seems like an opportunity for teaching/learning.

He wasn't allowed to take a larger buck and that is easier for anyone to determine... only a cull... so that really doesn't apply. I'd rather he shoot one of the several 2.5 year old spikes like the land owner intended.

But... had he shot a biggun that would be a lot simpler of a situation to handle. Been nice knowin ya kid, don't come back and take your old man with ya.

Nice looking yearling

X2

Or for a whippin. 22 and no job. wheew...

Anyways I would be like others mentioned upset about the picture, and then after the lease member who A) thinks a 22 year old son shouldn't have to pay his own way as a separate lease member B) has not educated his 22 year old son on what a cull is and 3) not educated his 22 year old son to have a job.

I am guessing this picture was sent out as o happy days look what he shot. Ive seen a few of those when it's illegal deer the smile in the pic turns into a frown real quick.

Once that Boy is off the Teet he can pay his own way, free till graduation...then he either hunts off your Tag and Quota or he can become a functioning part of Society and get a job and pay his way...

Oh, for Pete's sake. That's one tiny, young deer. Proof positive that "cull" has to be one of the most broadly interpreted words on the planet.

22, at home, no job is becoming very, very common. >>Millenials at home

There's one right down the street from me. I call him the "one class wonder". 'Been going to one class a day (around 10ish a.m.) at the local college for years now. He was recently given his second new, lifted Ford pickup (with vanity plates, of course) by mummy and daddy. Never see a girl with him.

His dad hunts some. Wait a minute...this kid doesn't live between San Antonio and Boerne does he???

At 22, there's no way in hell I would have a sh*t eating grin like that while holding that deer, much less have my picture taken with it - because I had more sense than to shoot it.

But I guess the grin isn't because he shot the deer, its because mommy and daddy have let him go through life so easy and he knows it. Apparently he has no shame. Wonder if they bought the AR and can for him, too. Men four years younger than him are getting killed in war. I guess some just don't grow up.

I have an easy rule of thumb.. if the deer is shorter than the grass around him/her... it should be left the hell alone.

My impression is that he owns a nice gun and should know what the heck a "spike" is. I tell people, kids and guests hunt with someone that knows what is up and what is down until they can prove they know too. Tell them the kid no longer can hunt alone. If he was not alone, then the person with him also cannot hunt alone.

And tell them they can pay a fine, or show a recent receipt for an eye exam and new prescription glasses. :P

Russ

To be clear, that is his old man's hog huntin' rig. The kid pretty much doesn't hunt, as you can see by how somebody pointed out how he has the muzzle pointed at himself.

one deer is just one deer. I would be on the side of that deer was a 1yr old 4pt. and would not consider that deer a cull. I would be inclined to give a lot of lee-way to a child harvesting their first deer. one deer just isn't going to make a difference in the mgt and itd mean the world to that kid.

I have to say though I dunno that I'd want my sons first hunting experience to be with a machine gun. its the great outdoors.....not Afghanistan.

lol...I figured, just was tryin to be funny. FAILED. oh well.. heh

Still, like others said it is a great time to teach them AND to get the point across.

I had a woman that comes out to my ranch shoot a button buck once thinking it was a doe. My point, while attempting to be humorous as well to not hurt feelings, is to point out that size also plays a role in defining what to take and while a doe may be cull-able, if it does not reach a certain height (the grass)...then does not matter what it is.. it needs to age.

This is Texas. There are very few places around where we hunt where the deer would be old enough to cull and still small enough to look like it should have spots.

R

22 is old for a kid.....but its still taking people hunting. there's worse things the boy could be doing.

I say give the man a break. If it's his first buck and he is proud of it, then so be it. That is not a cull though and should go towards his old man's quota.

Neither. And now they will never know if that yearling could of become the largest buck deer on the lease.

Am I the only one that saw pigtails on this kid? Or is that part of his beanie or photoshopped?

Part of the beanie.

I have a picture of a 45 year old man with his first buck. It was a main beam 10 pointer that was showing possible kickers on his G2s, a 1 1/2 year old deer.
I would rather him take that no brow tine yearling buck any day. That would be a cull on most leases that I have been on.
And if someone is going to screw up and and shoot a border-line buck, that is the one to do it with. It could have been a basket 8, or any deer with actual brow tines. I would call that one "almost a spike." I have seen way too many main beam 10-12 pointers with no brows.
That being said, if the lease rules are clear on what a cull is, then he should not have shot it. But I wouldn't be too upset about it.

Was the young man happy with his deer? Was that the only young buck on the lease? Was that the last and only buck on the lease? If not and you feel you have to say something, take the time to educate them by showing all the physical features of a young buck, how to age by toothwear/eruption and physical shape of the young buck.
On the last ranch I managed that would have been a cull buck by definition, no questions asked It won't be the end of the world that buck was killed. The way I view it, is that killing that buck left more food for the rest of the herd.
BTW he could have been older than you think if he was born in October 2013 and that was his second set of antlers

Could've been born in Nov and that was his first set of antlers...future 220" typical.

Yep I'm gonna take the high road and educate him on what the land owner is looking to remove.

The lack of brow tines is fairly common in our neck of the hill country woods. With all the 2.5+ year old spikes running around out there this buck should have walked. IMO the kid just shot the first thing he saw, dang impatient millennials.

I've seen worse mistakes....

Hmmm, just like that and POOF it's gone.

To be honest.. it is NOT the kid that needs the lesson, it is the dad. HE should know better. I had a guy that brought a kid out to the ranch. The guy had been wanting an Axis. The rule was, no-one shoots an Axis buck that is not an adult and part of the 4 main people who help keep the place up. He let the 14yr old kid shoot an Axis buck, and a nice one.

My issue was not that the kid shot an Axis it was that the guy LET him. Sure, he goes, "I could not tell him no.. he has never shot a deer before".. well, then you break him in with letting him shoot culls etc.. it is not an excuse. Does that make me a mean person? NO. I have to enforce the rules with my guests and I own the place.

The father knew the rules and broke them. Good for the kid and I would be happy for HIM.. but the father needs to learn that if the kid could not tell the difference, he should not be hunting alone. If the kid was not hunting alone, then the dad is responsible, or should be.

Russ

When I hunted it Texas, Taylor county was a 2 buck county. But we had a strict 1 buck only rule. If a guest shot a buck, it came off your quota. Make the Dad pay for the mistake so he can educate his son on the rules.

Yearling or not, that deer had no brows, probably never would.

The spirit of the kill consumed him, Ive seen worse. Im sure theres more left to hunt. Not all of us are trophy baggers. I try to keep em over 4 years old though.

I don't know about "never" but no brows are culls on my place along with spikes.

One deer won't affect anything anyway. My daughter shot a yearling fork horn last year because she wanted to and I didn't see a point in telling her no, just one deer and she wanted it, so why not. Wasn't her first or her biggest but she wasn't looking for a 160 6yr old. She likes hunting, killing, and eating deer. She gets this far away look when me and my son talk age class, gross score, and book deer....She always asks, "why can't y'all just go hunting and have fun, without all the extra fuss?"

Geezus. Machine gun??

I like the fact that the kid is happy. He doesn't hunt much and we have hunters denigrating him about a yearling buck?

Yes it's a learning op. But you don't teach a newbie by jumping his case.

In case you guys just woke up from hibernation, we need all the hunters we can get right about now.

And it's better to make a mistake on a deer you don't have a lot invested in isn't it ??

I would say the deer was probably the boys first and the dad wanted to see his son get the deer. Was it inferior....maybe. Not a major factor to me.

Yup. We have seen plenty of mistakes made over the years when a kid (or an adult) shot something that he/she shouldn't have. They usually get a pat on the back and a "good job!"
We always make an effort to teach them what they should and shouldn't shoot. If they need a reminder or another lesson, that comes later. Let them enjoy the moment.

22 is 22 not a kid. It is a learning opportunity if he is a new to hunting but the dad has the responsibility and not the youngish man. You can be nice and sweet about it because you don't want him to feel bad but that only leads to what we have already a generation of entitled uneducated brats. You aren't doing kids a favor by being nice to them all the time as parents.

Its not that he shot just one deer, the dad ignored the management practices for the property so his son could have fun. Doesn't matter what anyone elses management practice condones or doesn't. There was a management practice in place for the property and the other hunters all follow it. He let his son break it. What does that teach a "kid" at 22 if he's getting away with crap like that he's been doing and will keep doing it. Taking advantage of his dads kindness and getting what he wants. Leading to more entitledness*and brattiness*. Im sorry but people these days let their kids walk all over them because being nice is easier. It will make for a world full of selfish entitled turds.

I think some may be getting a bit carried away... its a deer... this is not the end of the world... the herd has not been affected by this deer being shot...

If there are rules about this on the lease then yes talk to them and let them know what needs to happen to change the matter... if they don't like that part of it then if your in charge let them go from the lease if your not then well not much to be done than an argument.. that's just my thinking...

This^^^^^^.

Throw the kid and his old man off the lease. Also file a civil suit against them for taking an animal they did not have permission for.

X3 - You are spot on here.

Also, I find it funny that everyone judges this guy's generation off of this paticular hunter. Sure, every generation has losers but don't throw everyone under the bus. If you have some doubts the maybe you should go to a nearby military base and let some of them know your thoughts. I just couldn't hold my tongue any longer. *rant over*

I see a future WMA or public land hunter.. This is why I don't lease I dont give a rats [censored] about hanging some horns on my wall I love the experience as well as the meat. When my grandson come of age I will teach him to love every animal not just go for all the giants. Me personally I would be happy with spikes, Does and Hogs I wish I could find a lease like that and banned size queens.

Larry, I was wondering if a rant on a forum about a 4 point buck, which may or may not be a “cull / inferior” buck, which may or may not have been a mistake, is worth jeopardizing your future on the lease. Of course if you are the managing hunter on the lease, there would be no issue.

Well if there is ever an opening keep me in mind I don't even shoot trophies I just hunt for meat and the excitement of hunt itself

lol I mean its definitely a very young 4point.. no may or may not...the guy shot a deer that didn't fit the guidelines and nothing wrong with a rant.. this needs to be discussed and get everyone on the same page.. if they knew it and knew better but still did it anyway then id be plenty upset too

Is jimmy the daddy or the boy that done slew bambi

Hang them all. Get them out of the gene pool.

No, it wasn't "maybe" a mistake. With all the old spikes running around out there it WAS a mistake - clearly against what we agreed upon as a cull.

I'm a big boy. And very calculated. I'm not going to jeopardize anything I'm not willing to lose.

The only question is, what to do about it. I already said I'm just gonna take the high road and educate the kid (and his old man), not gonna take it to the land owner and try to get anyone kicked off. Part of that decision came from the feedback of this forum. So this isn't a rant, simply getting all view points.

Note to self ........ self? Don't ever use your name as your forum screen name.

I once hunted as a guest on a lease that had two brothers on it. One a long time friend. The other a man who had never deer hunted before. The lease had no written management rule and was a mason/llano small acreage,small deer, high deer density property. It was around the rut, so I offered to do some rattling. I had one man to my right and one to my left each just in sight. When I stopped, each was to go forward 50 yards and stop. . I would rattle and grunt for a few, then we would move forward and repeat. The new hunter shot the first buck rattled in. It charged right in front of him headed to me. The way we were hunting, there was no mentor at his side. I walked up first and he was so excited, so happy, glowing. I saw the deer a 6 point and thought oh no.. but I was happy that he was happy so I joined in his celebration and congratulated him. The brother walked up, saw the deer and lit into his brother. A major buzz kill moment. He kept it up the rest of the trip. As the guest I said nothing. The new hunter was quiet the rest of the trip. I doubt the brother has ever hunted again. IMO My friend's short lived trophy hunting views were unrealistic for the funds we had and the places he could hunt. The post kill moment that day with the brothers was a sad experience to witness. Because of it, If I managed a property, I would have a rule that any first time deer hunter could take any legal deer as his/her first Deer. It would be a better experience not to have to worry about aproval or being judged. Sometimes we should focus on the experience, not the trophy. I know my current lease partners would agree. Finding a lease with like minds is the key.

let a kid shoot a deer

So I am to understand this kid is being tight that weapons and hunting are a place for fun and games, and dressing up...and there is a surprise he shot a young deer. Lucky he did not shoot himself, firearm safety seems to be forgotten, muzzle away young fella. Bad kill IMO, but based on other factors in the photo not surprised. My ole man would knocked that crap off my head and face, hunting is a time to have fun but taken serious.

Oh yeah you are correct. We all need to take deer hunting super serious and wear gillie suits and absolutely nothing that can be taken as not serious.

Come on people. We've got guys in here saying he was hunting with a machine gun, he's not serious enough and can't wear a goofy hat, that he's grinning in the photo because he's worthless and his parents give him everything, that his whole generation is worthless because that kid shot a little deer.

Some of yall are some sad individuals. Yeah he might have shot a small deer that wasn't the cull the landowner wanted. How the hell that morphed into the crap some of yall posted is ridiculous.