High Fencing Casualty

Well. We own a 150 acre farm/ranch that borders a large ranch on three sides and a larger cotton field on one side. We have enjoyed deer hunting on this place for over 50 years and i was hoping my children and grandchildren would as well. Just received word that a larger corporate hunting outfitter has leased the hunting rights to the ranch that we border on three sides and they will be putting up a high fence on all three sides. The cotton farmer on the west side of us put up a high fence several years ago.

That being said we our deer population will take a hit and maybe be non existant. we have no water on our place and the only real use for the place was recreation.

I dont thing a 150 acre ranch will sustain many deer with no water source and very little browse. We cant afford to feed year round.

The high fencing will lower the value of our property now and render it almost useless.

Put some water on your place. May not be what you wanted but can still work. What county are you in? If it is in an area that supports relatively hi densities you might be ok.

There is no ground water available we've drilled many dry wells. We have two tanks that hold water for about 2 weeks after a rain. The ranch we border has several wells about 3 miles away from our border and we've tried to negotiate an easement with the rancher to get water to our place but he wanted a pretty penny for it.

He made a low ball offer to buy our land last week. Sadly, we may have to take it. It wouldnt be worth much to anyone but him now.

Sounds grim. Sad when when their is that much family history in a place.

Line your ponds with Bentonite.

Once the fence is up, may tell the neighbor your price went because of the fence, cost allot to HF your 125 acres

We have agreed to pay for our half of the cost of the high fence.

You can also put in water catchment systems that will keep you in water for wildlife year round if done right.

Why would you do that?

What county is this that has no ground water?

What? why would you pay for a fence that will ruin your place?

Why dont you sell out to the guy who is putting up the high fence? Given that your cotton neighbor already has a high fence, you might save him alot of money avoiding the cost of new fencing...

Think yal need to reconsider some of this. I would not pay for 1/2 of that fence.

You know I agree he should be responsible for paying his half of the fence. Not a high fence, but the cost of a 5 strand barbed wire. It is the other land owner that choose to go high fence, so you should not be obligated to the to pay more than that normal low fence. I do this with our neighbors and it works out well for everyone.

Ok but what if there is nothing wrong with the current low fence?

There is many angles you can use to raise the price of your land.

If the fence is in great condition, then no, I would tell him that you do not want him to take out the fence which is half yours, and he needs to slide in his property to build his fence. We slide alot of our fences in on our side because we do not want anyone connecting on to them.

No one who espouses the "private property rights" argument in discussing the HF issue can express any sympathy here without being a total hypocrite.

Please explain to me why he should pay one red cent to the folks who are rendering his land useless and, having done so, are now attempting to take advantage of that fact.

Why on earth would you pitch in on the fence?

Don't get that at all.

Situation sucks, but that's a risk when you have a property completely surrounded by another one. There's a guy with 15 acres right in the middle of my place and he shoots a lot of animals. I don't really care, but if I wanted to, I could bless him with a 15 acre pen for about 10k of fencing.

x2

Where is this land located?
1. turn it into a shooting range. charge a cheap annual fee to shoot there. allow full-auto!!
2. any drilling nearby? setup a waste-water disposal site - had friend make million + doing this.

The land is not or will ever be rendered useless. Some of the recreational value will be diminished but still not totally useless.

Lol!!!!!!

What a joke. Useless....lol

Sure they could, but they shouldn't do it on this post.

I see it as nothing more then a tax right off just grew and property value just went up. If his neighbor mowed down 2000 acres of brush around him and started planting coastal you wouldn't have an issue. Stop focusing on the fence height.

The world is a fast paced, learning to adapt is what has made humans so successful in life.

If we look at something as bad all the time or jaded... Life will sux. You can find a positive in the majority of situations.

His ideal situation has changed, now he can work on a different ideal situation. If you have 1 acre or 100000, acres you will always have adversity to deal with.

This has been doing since they began to deed land and fence in open range.

I agree with many here. You still own the land and as such can control what you do with your land.
I wouldn't pay for any of the high fence at all - if he wants it put up, he can pay for it.
You can figure out something on water - bring it in, test again for water sources, make your water hole deeper (will retain more water). I think you still have many options available.

That's right. If you're not evolving, you're dying.

Exactly why we build our high fence inside on our property, no little fellow DRAMA.

He doesnt have to pay for anything, but if the fence was in poor condition he should pay half because that is what good neighbors do. Not the full price for the high fence, but half of a low fence. If the fence was new or in real good condition, then no I would object to paying half of any cost. Just because he puts up a high fence on 3 sides does not mean he is the bad guy, he is just protecting his investments. As far as low balling a price, not the ethical thing to do no . Most people now days have no clue what it is like to be good neighbors. Most guys think everything is owed to them, when they have no dog in the race. Feeling like your land is worthless now because of the fence, is not the way to look at it. Me personally I think it opens up the doors for many avenues to make more money than you did before. Look outside the box and use it to your advantage.

You only look at the negative, sad world to live in.
Be positive, and figure out how to use it to your advantage and make money.

Feed like crazy while they are fencing and stay off property let the deer settle in. Manage the herd your are left with. That is really all you can do. Or high fence remainder and kill everything off and raise Blackbuck or rams on it to sell or enjoy for your self.

Yep, those dang little fellas need to shut up and learn their place in this world. I read you-loud and clear.

Ok.

1) our fences were in bad shape and needed to be rebuilt. We offered to pay for half of the cost of a 4 foot fence. Our neigbor will pay for the extra cost associated with the high fence.

2)the thought of hunting deer that are confined to a 150 acre high fenced piece of land does not seem very sporting or humane to my family. We are going to work with the game warden and rancher and have all the deer removed.

I'm not angry with our neighbor. Its his property to do what he pleases with it.He has every right to put up a fence. We will find a lease somewhere for us to hunt on. No big deal.

The land has use and value. Just less value to us but maybe more value to a potential buyer.

Great outlook! Good luck to you and your family.

+1

that makes little or no sense to me. if you hunted on 150ac before....why won't you do it now?

I get that they will be fenced....but the notion that a HF makes hunting not sporting to me is sorta silly. a deer in a pen....a small pen...where he has no place to go where he can even begin to avoid you...ok...that's canned hunting. but 150ac of brush? agreed its not optimal in size...but you might be surprised what will still evade you.

yes the situation will cost you some money. you will have to feed some. but not spend thousands. you will have to do something to provide some water. but honestly....a decent water catchment would probably do you ok. deer don't drink that much water. you'd be pressed to water cattle...but that's different.

before you did nothing. you just showed up a month before the season and fed until you took your deer. nothing wrong with that. but you're investing little to nothing into the land or the animals. you've got the same 150ac to hunt now as you did before. only now you're limited to what your 150ac is capable of. I'd say its very useable. it may not suit the number of hunters wanting to use it....you might have to switch to a rotation on who gets to hunt or who gets to shoot what annually. we do that on our family place now.

Make it archery only.

how big is the neighbor's place?

There's other animals to hunt on your property other than deer. I don't know where your land is located but dove and quail hunting as well as rabbit and varmits can be good. Just because there's a high fence does not mean that there will never be deer on your property again. Hogs root and push under high fences where deer can get in and so do coyotes. I have seen many times where deer cross under a high fence repeatedly. Keep whatever deer you have on your property and construct some kind of water trough or small pond which can hold water. You'll be surprised what will show up every season.

No natural water on the place that's HF'd means the place has a CC of 0, which renders it useless.

he made you a low ball offer because he knew you'd come back with a higher number. that 150 acres is worth a lot the him just to square off his property. plus, as mentioned it will save him the cost of fencing around vs strait across. Come back at him with a realistic counter offer.

I equate land ownership, especially smaller acreage a little bit to a poker or blackjack game. Purchasing your acreage is a bit like playing with an unorthodox blackjack player or a high roller in poker. Not necessarily how you may conduct yourself but if they are within the casino rules and breaking no laws; certainly within their rights to conduct their business as they may. An inherent risk in the land ownership game. I happen to be in that situation, owning 70 acres and know if my neighbors to the south and north of me ever went up with HF, it would significantly alter my access to wildlife. The only things I can control in that respect are to exercise wise game management, being selective as to what and how many animals I harvest. Hopefully that display of game management alleviates any unnecessary concern on those landowners' part. Not implying that's what brought on this or any other situation of HFn'g but simply what I personally try to control from my end. That said, I certainly wouldn't help pay for anyone's HF on my boundaries. Nuff said.

If you can get a fair price then sell. Buy more land in West Texas with a big canyon or two running through the middle of the property. The first good rainfall will tear their precious high fence down

i bet very few "HF guys" would even want to hunt 150 HF'd acres. thats a pretty s****y silver lining IMO.

I'd consider a motor cross park. Put up that billboard. He'll be back with a better offer.

Now we're talk'n Half motocross, 1/4 paintball war park and 1/4 a shooting range open 24- 365

Temporary problem, With a multitude of solutions.

A deer drive would work great!
Now, after the first one-not so much.

All about how you set it up, and what rules you put in place. It would take me an hour to use all my tags on a small LF place I hunt. What's sporting about that??

I mainly bowhunt for a reason until it's cull time.

Speaking of silly....that quote is the silliest I've ever heard.
Makes me wonder why I leave the trading post, leases, and outfitter sections. Very sad...

You really misread completely bud, lol. Your thoughts on this subject are the exact reason why I said little fellow Drama. By little fellow, I mean childish reactions with no thought process on reality. Take a seat, get yourself a deep breath, and think about things before you comment on them.

The situation sucks, but as DQ pointed out, this is the risk of owning a small parcel surrounded by large neighbors.

I would counter offer him with the established price per acre currently selling in your area. Buy another place. Or set up an account with the money to fund a family year round lease that would be much bigger and offer better hunting opportunities. Good luck.

... back peddling there for sure

put up a sign " FUTURE SIGHT OF BUBBAS HOG FARM"

if it has dense brush, once it's high fenced merely put in a small water station and you can buy a 180+ class deer, take pictures, turn it loose but shoot it a couple times in the rear with shotgun with rock salt from a distance ... Then sell a canned one day only archery hunt to a corporation for the opportunity for one of their employees to take a 180+ canned hunt for $1000+ a day, different hunter each time, not allowed to set up stands or feeders ... could make a couple hundred grand, still have your deer for breeding (more than likely), turn out a couple good does ... start your own deer farm ... just thinking outside the box ...

can you honestly say that you wouldnt be pizzed if this was your place?

spin it how you want, this is a bad situation for the OP.

I wouldn't, I'd cross fence it in 10ac parcels and sell ranchitos.

Been there done that, its why we didn't by that small a piece of property.

And I know we don't know where the place is, but isn't there likely a CC issue that will have to be dealt with at some point, possibly immediately?

0 H2O = 0 CC

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

wait a second! Did you just post without using any icons? What the hell is happening here?

This is colt45 not colt.45

nevermind, I see there is a colt45 and a colt.45.

Ha, edit cuz STX beat me to it. I'll sleep better at night knowing colt.45 hasn't changed his ways.

I'd look at it with the glass half full approach. Two generations of pulling deer off LF big neighbors is a blessing. Your family had a good run and now you have a lot of good memories and stories to tell.

Subdivide it if you can, and sell it off; since you don't think 150 acre HF tract is sporting enough. That's your only play.

Even worse.

Yes. 100% I wouldn't be pissed

Well then most of the west shouldn't have game.

It's not hard to put water in. Not hard to build structure that's better at capturing and retaining water.

You talking to a guy whose ranch is in the center of the dust bowl. I have 5 wildlife guzzlers.

I bet you smile a lot more than most.

I would hate to be told the only play I had on my property was to subdivide it and sell it off.

Although it's always entertaining, I don't care much for the HF/LF debate anymore but this is the one scenario in which HF's really bother me.

wait a sec, bobo. So say you have limited funds and only one place to hunt, and that place goes from what you consider good hunting to no hunting at all...and that doesn't bother you at all?

Nope, not one bit. neigbhor has his land. I still have mine. only thing that changed was the fence height.

C'MON MAN!

Haha

Apparently you don't get me.

I wouldn't be pissed one bit. I have same rights to fencing as he does.

Based on OP's opinion that hunting 150 HF acres "isn't sporting"

That's not my opinion jshouse.

On an airplane got to go.

I'm dead serious and any body that knows me would tell you I truely don't care what some one does with THEIR LAND

No, I get the whole landowner rights thing you stand for, still doesn't mean you couldn't be pissed if your neighbor opened a gun range next to your fence or turned your life savings into a 150 acre pen.

And I agree with him. I own 45 acres, if I were fenced in like the OP would my silver lining still be to enjoy hunting my 45 acres? Would that be sporting? If it is or isn't is subjective and doesn't really matter, all I'm saying is I would be pissed if it was my place and my only options are to hunt a 45 acre HF place or to subdivide and sell it off.

That's why most of the West the animals migrate with moisture or hang around Blue Mesa and get shot by a crafty hunter with a stellar personality.

I'm gonna put a landfill in next to Bobo's house and then knock on the door to ask for a cup of sugar.

haha, safe travels

So what would you do in this situation Jack? Is this a total loss asset or a reposition prospect?

Please do!!!!!!!... That would most likey pay me very well...

Haha, depends on who you are representing I suppose.

Not all, once you get out of the mountains and in the 6k and less range they don't migrate much.....hence the huge pushes for water guzzlers Etc. to hold deer/elk in areas they normally stayed clear of. Again I'm in the High plains and probably have half the Rain fall as the OP and I can make it work.

150 acres, high fenced, all the fencing done for free... Pretty sure that is a great opportunity to raise some really good deer, and sell them live, maybe to your neighbor that paid for the fence. Find a way to get water, haul it in if you have to. Shoot everything off, bring in a few high dollar does and a breeder buck, and sell a few off every year.

Agreed. But what if it was your land?

Well I tend to be a "glass is half full" type of guy so I'd be looking to improve it in any way I could and make the best of it


But I'd still be ticked!

I wouldn't pay for any of the fence, regardless of the state of repair of the current one, if I knew the a&&hole was HF me out. And I'd have some choice words for him if he showed up and asked me for any money. Deer are a natural resource, putting up a HF is cutting off that resource, no different in my mind than somebody above you damming up a creek so that you no longer got any of the water.

I wouldn't pay for the fence and I can't say that it wouldn't bother me if I was the Land Owner. I would try to make the best of the situation, but would be upset. I am all for LO rights, just hate to see the little man pushed out in any situation.

We have seen the opposite of this argument on this forum where one ranch HF's a smaller place because of the smaller place not being good stewards of the resources.

Bad deal, but I could probably argue on either side of it. Hate it for the OP and hope you figure something out to make the land an asset. Good luck

Back to that natural CC of 0 I see and the animals still moving with moisture.

Who, you?

A neighbor of mine owns 150 acres and I surround him on three sides. He would jump for joy if I closed in the three sides with a high fence.

I agree with the others, you're looking at this from a glass half empty view. I'm sure there are a lot of non-hunting people out there that would love to have a 150 acre place that was already fenced in on 3 sides. Lots of city folks that dream of being farmers and aren't hunters, people with horses that would like a larger place to ride them, people who raise sheep or goats ... All you need to do is figure out how to get some water out there. If you go to sell it, you could even make that a selling point to the non-hunting crowd. You have a secure, 150 acre piece of property that has an 8 foot fence on 3 sides. No need to worry about neighbors or people jumping your fence and bothering you.

I think he said one side is already high-fenced, so now he's going to be completely high-fenced.

Are there places in the state where there is no water underground or is it just a matter of drilling deep enough?

I would not pay for any part of a fence that did not improve my land and land value. A neighbor is not obligated to pay any part of any fence unless he agrees too. As a matter of fact I would hire a lawyer to see what my legal options would be. I realize there may not be any but I would try to tie the guy up.
I don't have anything against a high fence but to totally block a neighbor is immoral.
Also everyone keeps talking about landowner tights, what about the guys rights that is being fenced out?

Glad I saw this topic. I was giving a cursory look at a 160 in the Hill Country that was high fenced on 2 sides but after reading this I think it confirms that it is not something I want to get into. I can see both sides of the argument. If you want to kill true trophy deer you just can do it unless you can get your deer to reach 5.5 years of age. You can't really control that even owning 3000+ acres in some cases depending on how your parcel is configured and what the neighbors are doing. On the other hand the deer are public property and exhaustive measures should be used to remove all the state's deer off of a property that is getting HF'ed do matter how much it cost. From a hunting perspective I don't want to hunt in a HF but if that HF ranch is 10K acres is that really any different than fair chase? You just get to REALLY manage your deer and not watch a buck you had your eye own get shot by the neighbor's lessors at 3.5 years old by 12 old kid because it was his first buck so dad let him shoot it anyway and not follow the handshake management practices that keep landowners from needing to HF.

I really wish the state would step in to issue permits to HF to make sure it is not damaging the value of someone else's property like is clearly the case in the OP's situation. I don't think HF is bad but it is getting a little out of hand and needs to be regulated.

I can honestly say I would not be pissed. I would be a little bummed, but not pissed by any means.

Truly amazed at the arrogance and twisted logic being displayed by many on this thread.

That is an easy fix. If a landowner high fences a ranch he has to do a helicopter survey at his expense and pay for all of the states deer or run them all out.
If someone shoots a deer illegally he is handed a bill from the state for killing the states deer. So why not make someone who high fences et al, captures the states deer. Both acts are removing deer from the public herd. I high fence guys say not so but they are wrong, if a land owner puts up a 10 or 12 foot fence he has captured the deer inside period.

Nope. Nothing else changed.

That's why the OP calls himself/family a HF "Casualty", people are pizzed, and the corporate HFer offers him half his land's value.

I own a place where the only good well water is 4000' deep. I used to could hit saltwater at shallow depths on this place and it is 70 miles from the coast. We are lucky that we have a rural water system that was put in around 1976 so everyone in that area could have drinking water and plumbing in their homes. Only drinking water till then was rain water off a roof that flowed into cisterns. I managed a ranch where water was 4000-5000' deep. Costs of drilling a well at those depths was $300,000+ and not to many could afford that hit. Upside to those is that good clay is there to make tanks/ponds that hold water very well...if and when you can get a runoff rain. There are places out west of Crystal City that there is no well water to be found (from what I was told).

Westtexan1 - that 160 acres in the Hill Country could possibly have a CC of 50 deer. I think that's enough to raise the kind of buck you want whether high fenced or low fenced.

You can "tie the guy up" as you call it and all the guy now has to do is move inside the existing old fenceline onto his land and build the new fence. It might be 3' or 150' inside the existing fenceline. He will be on his land.

I believe I'll sue the State, demanding that the perimeter of my ranch be high fenced in order to keep the State's deer off my property.

Just curious NP, when you bought your land did you pay what they were asking for it or did you make a lower offer? Do not know many folks that will buy a piece of land at what someone really wants for it, unless that person really wants that land.

That's one idea. Go for it.

Adjoining landowners usually offer market value and often pay a premium because they want it more since it benefits them uniquely. Of course, that's in an arm's length deal-not an "over-a-barrel" situation like this.

It's common sense this is not a good situation for the OP. The adjoining guy knows it too.

Realistically, I don't see the difference. Some want landowners to pay the State for captured deer as a result of high fencing, I want the deer off my place. The State should pay for the fence construction to make sure their deer stays off my land. The State claims ownership right up to the time the deer becomes liable such as in instances of car collisions and crop damage.

At least he won't be paying to have his own throat cut.

It is not an "over-a-barrel" situation at all since this place does not have to sell. He or I might not like the situation but no one can force the sale on him/me just by putting up a fence. It is and will always be good business to make a lower offer and we all do that. Who does not want to get something for less than face value?(My guess is you did not pay full value for you land since you did not answer my question). IME you can only find out if they really want to sell and what they really want for their land by making an offer or you can pizz them off totally, ending all hopes of buying it ever. For me I would see what he really wanted to pay then I could always sell him the land after he built the fence on his own dime.

I paid 100% full appraised value for my ranch and the land I have added since. It was the piece of property I wanted and that was my actual offer. It was a family estate and I did not want anyone to come back on me later.

On the reply about hiring a lawyer wouldn't help, I guess if the landowner moved his fence in 3' or more I would have open corners that deer could travel through to my property so in essence I won and am not fenced 100% in.

That scenario I just described about moving the fence over and put it on their land happened across the highway about a mile from me. It was done by the Federal Government putting up a HF around 1180 acres they owned.

I would do that too. About the only real option he has. But HFing a small tract in does negatively Impact what anyone else would pay for it and thus, it's market value. That's why it's an over-a-barrel situation. This thread exists for that reason.

P.S. I paid market value for mine. If it had been next to a HF place I (like many) would never have bought it. In fact, mine will never have this issue since it is surrounded by National Forest land. Which is a big reason I bought it in the first place.

Then the guy building the fence could be a real arse and lease that strip of land left outside his fence to hunters or day hunt it also.

I get lower balled at least once a year on land.

I would agree to pay for half the fence if the neighbor went back with a 4' fence. The purpose of the high fence is purely for the function, benefit and goals of the HF neighbor. He sounds like a prick. To ask for a contribution to the fencing and then lowball an offer is a bullying tactic. The guy is welcome to do what he wants to his property but it sounds like he is trying to take advantage of the situation that he is in fact creating. You always need to make the best of every situation but in this case the deck seems a little stacked. The right thing to do would have been for him to inform the OP about what he was going to do and if he wanted to make an offer to purchase agree to establish market value by averaging some appraisals. That would be the right thing to do. The best business tactic is not always the correct path. JMHO.

Exactly why one should slide the fence in a little bit and build on your own property as you wish when ever want.

That's why you bought you place.........similar to buying a house in a big HOA.

Again like I said earlier no different then neigbhors clearing 1000's of acres and planting coastal.

In fact, One of his neigbhors high fenced one side to protect his crops but your focused on the bigger land owner... Why is that?

I am quite certain it couldn't support that type of population at a deer per every 3 acres. In the end I don't want to be in the livestock business and I certainly don't want to shoot livestock otherwise I would just shoot a cow. I don't consider 160 acres being HF'ed being very ethical and certainly not hunting. That may be just me but that's they way I feel.

The Hill Country can support the highest density of deer in North America and 1 deer per 3 acres (with no feeding) has been recorded -- back in the days before deer were artificially fed. It would really depend on the vegetation on that particular piece of land, water, etc.

Don't be so hasty. You said that he made a low-ball offer. Sounds like he has put some thought into this. Questions, questions, where do I start? Can't you haul water? We did it for years. It almost sounds like you're ready to throw in the towel before exercising all options. Just my thoughts. Plus, I wouldn't want to give the neighbor the satisfaction of buying my place after he high -fenced me out, temporarily. What's he gonna' do after he buys your place, take down his fence that borders you? Probably. What county?

E=mc2...Also, one must remember, the 'angle of the dangle must be equal to the fall of the ball', otherwise databases may be corrupted and incongruencies arise....10 acre ranchettes...I like it.

That's the way anyone without an agenda and/or who doesn't just want to kill animals would feel.

I feel for you and your family and can relate. Small land owner myself. What I, like others say is remain positive! Emotional responses during critical situations can at times lead to disaster. Don't shortchange yourself on this. I'd think this out long and hard and definitely think outside the box. 50 years of owning a property makes it a family Heirloom! Although its obviously got sentimental value and you enjoy it could you perhaps turn this parcel into a larger one by liquidating? 50 years of land stewardship has to have given you or other family members much experience and knowledge with regards to rural land. Wisdom will come from combining your knowledge and experience and making the right decisions based on those two things. Maybe the cotton farmer would like to expand his parcel? Would the land make someone a good horse property? Your screen name is Lipan. Referencing the Apaches? They were warriors and feared opponents. Don't fold your hands on this one. Keep your head in the game and try and turn this into a win for your family.

turn it into a Jeep/ATV Mud park and watch how fast the neighbor wants to negotiate

I will echo most of the fellas, I wouldn't put a dime towards the fence. If it cost twice as much, he may have 2nd thoughts. There is no ethical or moral obligation for you to pay for half the 4' section if you don't have a livestock, or boundary issue.

HF or not, I don't think it will lower your land value at all, may even increase it. There will be a group of folks that would love to buy into something like that, that expense/labor is already done. Where you see it as "canned" hunting, another family may see it as a place to raise their own "herd".

I know if it was me, I'd be pizzed too, but sure as hell wouldn't make a knee jerk reaction. I would find a good realtor you trust and kick around some options, they may already have someone in mind that would jump all over it at market value.

Here's a possible option propose to accept his low-ball offer with some kind of hunting rights to the high fence area on a yearly basis. Could possibly work out well for both of you.
I just recently returned from my first high fence hunt. I will say if I had the land and the resources I would high fence a place where I live in a heartbeat. I know not all agree on that topic but just the thought of being able to manage a herd and a property is pretty cool to me.

Did your neighbor offer to buy your place before or after you worked out the fence deal?

Has he already started the HF or is he blowing smoke and trying to bully you out?

When food is very plentiful, as in the Hill Country, I am guessing that animals roam less and 160 acres may be just fine for holding animals. Plus, most hunt over feeders, so why does it matter how much land they have? I just don't think 160 acres in the Hill Country is the same as 160 acres in some place like Terrell county or East Texas.

I'm certain he will eventually spend more than market value for your place to extend his current property. Money isn't everything and I'm sure you're sick on the thought of losing your HUNTING property. You stand a good chance of buying twice the amount of land in west texas for the price you get for this property. IMO

Deer are different and less moisture and less browse in the hill country. Wanting to hold that many deer in the hill country is what turned them into runts.

IMO the food sources from the hill county and east texas don't compare. It'd be much easier keeping deer satisfied on 160 in east texas than any other mentioned location.

It's all about densities. East Texas has lighter denisites not better forage. High rain fall numbers mean less stout forage.

False.

The body size of East Texas deer are far bigger than any Hill Country deer I've ever shot. Genetics or diet?

None of the above. Densities.

So your answer points in the direction of "diet"? As there isn't enough groceries for the amount of hill country whitetail/animals?

But why are there low densities in East Texas? Is it because of all the forest? So, less food means fewer deer, but then why are they bigger?

I'm guessing that most of the Hill Country (where the cedar hasn't been removed) has forbs and browse for deer, so why then are those deer smaller?

I think the answer is genetics.

Weren't East Texas deer brought in from South Texas?

How many tags you get? How many tags does hill country get.

Hill country ranches that run same density as you guys grow 175-200lb deer

Hill country, STX, and even Kansas. Again its density.

In laymens terms hay in east Texas is not near as stout as hill country and hill country isn't as stout as west texas or STX.

There's some misconception that there were no deer left in ETX when restocking took place, what occurred was like dumping a cpl breeder pen deer off amongst several hundred deer and watching those genes get overtaken by native.

Rain is the key to life whether it be plants or animals, if areas hurt for rain, they hurt for healthy living things. This has been the Bill Nye moment of the day.

Things aren't making sense.

Deer densities in East Texas are low, but the deer have larger bodies. There is lots more rain there than in the Hill Country. Are we all agreed on this?

I say deer densities are lower because 1) lots of dense forest and not enough edge areas (deer don't eat "hay"), and 2) High rural human populations with a strong hunting tradition.

Except when the acorns are falling those dense forests might as well be parking lots. However in the edge areas the food is good, and supports big-bodied deer. Deer are kept from overrunning the browse by the hunter numbers.

In the Hill Country, browse and forbs are everywhere (except where the cedar has been cleared) -- no "parking lots". Less water, so perhaps the food isn't as good in higher rainfall East Texas, but it is more evenly distributed.

However, the hunting tradition (and poaching tradition) is less there, so deer numbers took off and they remain at subsistence level, thus the body-sizes are smaller.

The problem I have with that scenario is that Hill Country deer are healthy, not-starved, so why would they not grow larger?

To me, it seems more likely to be genetics than habitat. I remember when I hunted a place next to a high fence place that had had deer brought in. Some escaped on to the place I hunted and they towered over the native deer.

I don't have all the info on it, but I can tell you that from 20 years of hunting in the hill country we started on a heavily overpopulated property hunted it for several year and the biggest bucks dressed out at 85-90 lbs. After several years of intensive herd reduction the heaviest bucks gained on average 30 lbs and some as much as 40 dressed weight. Does saw about 20-25 lb increase. At that point the property was still over the population we would want and was grazed by cattle and goats...

Is it possible some of your neighbors brought in deer stock and some escaped to your place and interbred with the natives?

There are some areas with similar densities. Would bet the refuge I observe is similar despite being stocked with more cattle than the HC can hold. The deer aren't little and it's mostly river bottom, virgin timber.

1)you'll find a lot of deer out on those fields eating forbes, ground that gets that saturated is primed to be invaded. Yearly grazon treatments confirm this. 2)Human population is definitely higher. Early on before the gov got involved, the area was loaded with cotton & gins and other crops. That acreage went to areas trying to recover from the dust bowl. Back to that, more water, more life trend.

Our dense forest is loaded with honeysuckle, persimmon, wild plum, muscadine, american beauty berry, etc. Deer dig it and continuous moisture makes feeding protein a royal pain bc they already have what they need.

Genetics only comes in play once they have reached peak nutritional requirements. The original hill country deer where not small.

Imported Genetics water down quickly.

Like I said you find a hill country ranch that is running densities simlar to ETX deer, and weights will be similar. HF in the hill country are more about keeping deer out then in.

You are mistaken. Genetics have been constant in the Hill Country. And the deer were much bigger in the '50s.

How can you say genetics have been constant when we know people have high fenced and brought in non-native deer?

( I'm trying to figure out how a discussion on a 150 acre being surrounded by HF converted into a debate of deer size/genetics East vs. Hill Country deer )

A plant is a plant no matter if it's trees, crops or Forbes.

More the water, the more they grow, more they grow, more nutrients they pull from the soil. Over time the plants still grow but thier content isn't as stout.

Why irrigated farmers send 5x the amount on fertilizer then dry land.

Non- native means nothing. It waters down very quickly.

Even then you can go up north and find 40lb differences in weight in areas. The smaller deer are always in higher density areas.

Body weight is a combination of density and winter survival. Northern deer are typically heavier do first to lower densities and second harsher winters.

Because everything that could be said about the original subject had been said.

If you are referring to my post, no their is no chance it was from brought in genetic escapees. Our deer gained an average 40% of dressed body weight simply buy herd reduction. In the same time frame I went from seeing 35-40 deer in a sitting to around 10-12 in the last years where the population kinda stabilized. We also did not change any of our feeding habits in that time frame. Antler size and the number of points expressed in bucks increased as well.

Hill Country whitetails would have equal or better body size than East Texas if those deer where high fenced and their numbers controlled?

Sounds to me me like you have been hunting free for a long time and your screwed. Might be time to pay like most of us do or hang it up.
Sorry for your loss.

Yelp or even large ranches that are heavy handed on population control.

owning land = hunting for free? wow, i'm gonna go buy myself some land tomorrow!

Wow, that's harsh! He paid by having the price of 125 acres tied up for 50 years. We all know it is much cheaper to lease than to own.

I want to buy some of that free land you speak of. What's the price again?

Kinda like you get what you pay for. Its the reason why buying 50 acres out of a big subdivided ranch is a recipe for bad hunting. I hate the term "sustainable" because of my hippie teachers when I was in college, but in my opinion you have to have enough acreage to "sustain" what you want to hunt. He doesn't, it really sucks, but that's what happens when you own a small parcel of land your depending on your neighbors to provide. If everyone in west texas owned 125 acres and shot the same number of deer that the OP took then there might not be any left at all.

Depending on where this acreage is located I would bet there are people who paid more in 5 years of leasing than what that land is worth.

This thread is funny... that is all.

What's harsh and incredibly stupid and incredibly arrogant about many of these replies is the notion that the deer he saw and took ON THE LAND HE OWNED were somehow instead a gift from his neighbor the rich man.

The big guys in this country have done something I never thought possible-filled many with so much animosity that they have become their boot-licking apologists at every turn. Amazing.

So the op didn't say he as going to eliminate all the existing deer that will be enclosed on his property?

If you take a negative veiw about everything in life you will always be a negative person. I tend to find the silver lining.

Very possible. Was the location ever mentioned in this thread? Don't see anything other than a neighbor "cotton farmer". That doesn't sound like west texas.

I love how a thread like this gets going and all of a sudden half of thf becomes wildlife biologists overnight haha keep me comin boys

I feel for the OP, but that's life. You take it for what it is and move forward. IMO, the corporation putting up the high fence and the landowner allowing such have done nothing wrong. You are either pro-property rights or you aren't.

I also have no idea where it is located, but the OP lists his location as west texas.

I am looking to buy some land and I am very concerned that something like this could happen. Situations like this make me glad that I just lease. Sorry to hear about this happing but when life deals you a lemon you got to make lemonade. Good luck and I hope this ultimately works out for you.

If you knew me you would know I am one of the most positive folks around. That said, I do not tolerate dumba**ery well.

I just wouldn't agree to pay any of the fence costs. And, before the big landowner built his high fence, I'd get a realistic value for the land and offer to sell out at that price and no less.

You know and I know there are no absolutes in owning a home or land. If there was you would practice a different speciality then what you do.

We find a silver lining and go on.

Have you ever heard it said "Your rights end where your neighbors' begin?" It is a founding principle of the Constitution. Every landowner has rights, not just a few.

Many western "pro property rights"'states don't allow HFs. Your rights to do as you wish on your property are limited by seasons, bag limits, shooting hours, weapons allowed etc., etc., etc....

Private property rights are not unlimited. Especially when the law says game animals belong to the public, not individual landowners.

Bobo- my silver lining will come when I don't have to read a story like this again.

I don't tell my clients to "find a silver lining" and get out of my office. I help them find it by fighting the ones taking their property.

Except those same states will erect goverment own HF along your property line if the so well please... And they do!!!!

If the deer where truley the peoples then a GW should be able to retrieve animals on other properties.. They nor you can

You ultimatey give them a best case senerio. That's a silver lining.

Again there are no absolutes in land owner ship, even with the largest ranches in TX. That's the gamble we all get into. You can try to minimize it as much as you can, example being why and where you bought your place

Yes, I have heard that said and I believe it to be true. You have proved my point. You are speaking of hunting seasons, bag limits, shooting hours, weapons allowed, etc, etc. You are speaking in terms of hunting privileges, not rights. The landowner/corporation has every right to erect an 8' fence. The OP's property rights do not extend beyond the survey stakes. One cannot claim to be an advocate of private property rights, yet try to dictate what another landowner does/does not, can/cannot do within the confines of his/her property.

Just to play the devil's advocate here, how do you guys feel about neighbors intentionally being obnoxious to prevent deer from going to your property, effectively ruining your hunting? You know, hunter harassment and such, speaking on a strictly ethical view point, leaving legalities out of it.

I grin, bear it and go on.

No different then if a gun range went in next to me, or hunting fence lines

I think deep down it would bother EVERYONE if it was done for that single purpose. My in-laws had their best hunting area more/less shut down from a neighbor (15K acres) putting up a high fence. No other portion of the 15K was high fenced except this part. The in-laws feeder was approx. 200 yards from the property line. This forced the deer around the fence through a big canyon to access the feeder. Ended up moving the feeder after they had cameras set up on their side pointed to our feeder.

They even high fenced the canyon, but eventually abandoned it after several patch repairs from flash floods.

50 years of hunting. That's a lot of memories. There are many that aren't that fortunate. I was reading this post again since this thing has gone from one side of the road to the other and almost in the ditch and back on the road again it appears..lol

When I read this again it also says that the ranch has no water, very little browse. I'm asking myself why has it come to this after 50 years of ownership? If you could never afford to improve the browse or bring in water collection stations to address this land being worthless for hunting and recreation without deer crossing it from your neighbors land that obviously must have water and browse then maybe it's time to sell it anyway.

As was stated numerous times, you can turn lemons into lemonade. 150 acres should bring enough to fund several years of a nice family lease to create more memories like you've had the last 50 years. I wish you good luck with however things turn out OP.

I also still believe that private property rights should allow you to build a high fence if you want to on your land.

Don't forget about the tax man should they decide to sell without a 10-31 Exchange. Their basis will be low and the check to the government will be large after fifty years of ownership. I would only sell as a last resort.

Good point. Maybe things will work out that they could find another place and they could use the 10-31 tax exemption. If not, better to sell if you can't afford what needs to be done to make it worth owning. There are worse scenarios then paying a 20% long term capital gain tax.

Never happen to me but I do have a total of 8 blinds and feeders now bordering 3 sides of my place, all but 2 are within 50 yards of the fence, 4 of them are on 10 and 20 acre parcels. My place is the only place in that area that hasn't been grubbed or sprayed and I have the only permanent water within 2 miles. The thought of Hi-Fencing is very tempting! Several people here have hunted my place and have seen what I'm talking about. Even had 2 cut holes in the sheep wire for the deer to get through. I've about had it with neighbors!

He never said what part of West Texas so I can only go by this area and 150 acres won't hold many deer. He said it had very little browse and no water which makes it much worse. It sounds as though it can not now nor has it ever held a huntable population of deer without the benefit of his neighbor. It also sounds allot like most of my neighbors. We can't all keep hunting my place.

I'm not going to wade through 8 pages.

But, I'm LMAO at folks getting upset because someone's neighbor upped the value of their land. Just go check it out, high fenced places sell at a pretty nice premium over low fenced places.

Oh and for all you folks who are whining about how they won't be able to hunt like they used to... That's an open admission that for all those years the OP's family depended on their neighbors' better stewardship to provide their deer.

And like BoBo said, if you don't have ground water you can build guzzlers.

I am pretty sure he is in the area around Vancourt, TX, about 20 miles east of San Angelo on the San Antonio highway on highway 87. Some of my old stomping grounds from about 40 years ago, north of 87 used to be cotton country, south used to be sheep and cattle.

I'll second that. Almost certain as well he's in the San Angelo area.

Bobo, please explain how the hill country deer we shot in the 70s and 80s, when we were lucky to see two-three deer per season, were the same size as the deer we kill off the same place now, when we see 5-20 deer per hunt, if its a density issue? According to you the deer 30-40 years ago should have been much larger, right?

In the late 70's and early 80's, you could not find a deer on our 10k acres and none had been seen before that. Ranch has been owned by the same family since around the turn of the century. Early 80's, the rancher started seeing a few deer but we're rare. In 1986 he killed a 164" and in 88' a 157" was found dead in a pond. Record rainfalls in the early 90's appearantly gave the herd a boost, because by 96-97, we were over populated. Being that the country then was mainly sheep and goat country and add an extra few hundred mouths to feed, the overall quality and body size dropped dramatically from 8-10 years prior.

Overall population and available resources have a direct correlation with antler size and body size. Most places in the Hill Country have a population problem and are well over their CC, especially when combined with the livestock typical in the region.

Llano area is a perfect example of this. The area is notorious for small bodies deer and small antlers, but there are ranches that manage the herd and have implemented sound practices combined with supplemental feeding to produce some great deer while right down the road the weekend warriors are killing the same deer they were killing 30 years ago.

The genetics are the same, the deer just don't have the resources to allow them to reach their max genetic potential. Like our ranch, the genetics are there to produce the same quality of deer it did in the late 80's, but the available resources and land are not available to allow them to do so. If 100 deer were competing for those resources instead of 700, there chances would increase dramatically of recieving the resources.

There are also theories about the antler size of a "growing herd" and what the "leading edges" of that herd are capable of producing, but you didn't ask that

So which place do you drive through to get to your property?

Just leave the gate open lol

I wouldn't pay a dime, as a matter of fact I would tell the one who wants to high fence the financial negative impact he will have on you and you will be considering legal action if he does high fence...

What legal action?

The only negative impact will be him having to shoot his own deer and not the ones he can lure in from his neighbor. From his own description his place didn't sound exactly like deer central.

Here's an example of what's going on around my place. The gentleman that owns 20 acres to the south of me has 10 acres pasture and 10 acres plowed and barren. In the middle of his plowed field he has built a mound and set and old car on top, right beside the fence he has a feeder and a high blind. Year before last there was a total of 3 deer taken off my place (2 by my wife and 1 by a friend) and that's on 3 sections. Between my neighbor his sons and his friends they took a total of 11 deer on his place. Keep in mind that's just 1 blind and 1 neighbor, there's 7 more blinds and 5 more neighbors. I think it's fair to say that there's around 20 deer a year get shot from jumping or crawling through the fence to get to my neighbors fence line feeders. There's 2 things I can do about it and one I already do and that's feed like the thunder on my place and try and keep them on my side of the fence or I break down and put up a Hi-fence. Been at it here for 20 years and it seems like every year another blind pop's up on the fence line. A Hi-fence will most certainly end the negative impact that I'm seeing and feeling.

If you can't tell by now I have an increasing dislike for fence line hunters and the impact they have on their neighbors. Do they have the right to hunt their place as they choose you damn right but I also have the right to shut them off should I choose. More and more large parcel owners are doing just that and it's not because they want to, Hi-fence ain't cheap! They do it to preserve what little they have left in hopes of securing a little bit of something for their next generation. I go to extremes to limit the number of deer taken off of my place to insure I have a healthy population of deer, some of the biggest bucks in the county consistently come off of my place. When your neighbors are shooting what ever jumps are crawls through the fence it negates allot of the hard work and stewardship you've put in place. So the next time somebody complains about being hi-fenced out I'm going to be hard pressed to garner any sympathy and I'll have to bite my lip to keep from asking them why they think it was done.

And I'm sorry some here seemed to have completely missed the point you were trying to make.

That and $1.00, you might get a cup of coffee. You are clueless !!!!

Just thinking out-loud... OP was already HF'd off from the cotton grower? why? Now , for some reason, the new outfit wants to also HF their place off, which just happens to be the remaining 3 sides, why?. Also, are they going to HF the remaining property or just the line adjoining the OP?

Just wondering what the motivation would be and if the cotton grower has fenced off other neighbors. Could this be a result of a perceived, lack of management, or over harvest?

Usually 2 sides to every story. May be a reaction to action IDK

That's quite possible Western. However if he and the other landowner were on the same management page and trusted one another why couldn't they agree to high fence both places together so the small parcel fella would still have a place to hunt? It'd be a weird situation I'm sure, but I think it'd be a nice gesture if they could work together. They could somewhat split up some fence cost this way. One guy saving a little $$$ and the other saving his hunting. Just a thought

That has to be one of the dumbest statement I have ever read on this forum.

That would be a good thing. Big LO has no incentive to do that though. Whole reason for the HF is to keep the animals on their place and under their control.'

Until the state establishes laws governing the height of a fence one can place on their property boundary not much I could do about it. I personally don't like them but must and do accept them..

You're right, thats not what I asked. I asked if density was the only issue, why our 5-10 deer that had the whole run of 1200 acres to themselves 40 years ago weren't any bigger than the 40-50 that are there now. Habitat, ranching habits, etc all remain the same. My point is that genetics definitely have a hand in things regardless of density.

That is where I think the obvious problem is. In that case, the large LO would only have to tie into the cotton growers corners and run his perimeter. I could be totally off base, but it seems 2 adjoining LO's have separately decided to fence off the OP, just curious as to "why". Could just be an innocent result of LO decisions IDK, but it begs to wonder, pretty big expense.

The value increase of a high fence perimeter would make that "legal action" suggestion a boondoggle. But sue away, the NP's of the world gotta feed their chillens.

Well NP, if you were the Big LO and you watched your neighbor own land next to yours for 50 years and never tried to improve having no water or browse, instead just hunting the deer that lived on your property when they crossed onto his, would you have the incentive to contine to spend money and time to provide hunting for your neighbor?

You are correct.

Actually, from that perspective I would be glad he has done nothing to keep deer on his place-which makes my place all the better.

Landowner management choices are a level playing field. Throwing up HFs does nothing but create thousands of little separate ecosystems in ways nature never intended. This is a good example. Because of the HF, any deer that are left trapped in the 150 acres apparently are under a death sentence.

I HF to raise Ibex not Deer. But they keep jumping in anyway. They must have heard that it is safer and they will live a better life inside it.

When in reality all he has done is the quick fix 100 lbs of corn that he throws to entice them across the property line.

Funny how they keep appearing in that "deer proof" fence...

Oh, I see we're back to the "they don't work anyway" point.

This is usually where I step out.....

I'm curious as well. If he's high fenced all the way around, who's land does he go through to get to his? Why did a cotton farmer HF his place?

Your not paying attention. It's hard to trap them when there is no browse or water to keep them there in the first place. And they would only be trapped if the OP decided to HF the forth side. Which would be stupid because the deer don't live there in the first place.
You just don't want to admit that it would piss you off if you were a good land steward and your neighbor wasn't and his whole family was hunting and benefiting from your time, work and expense.

I said HF not Deer Proof.

Im kinda curios why he made the post and hasn't responded to anything? Maybe because he didn't get the oh poor baby routine from everyone? It always helps to know the whole story with you seldom get.

You know them folks out west of 35 put up 1 hot wire, 8' up and one will surely work.

Lots of farmers are HF'ing their crops... There is 1000's of acres in Brady that are HF just to deter deer from thier crops

Where was the "I have been HF" thread the first time? Oh, wait he had the deer trapped on his side of the fence then. He was okay with the HF then.

Interesting that these threads all seem to go the same way. OP makes the original thread and may make a follow up reply(3 in this case). They then disappear and let the same people bash each other in these same type threads.

exactly ^^^

I own 400 acres. I am a good steward for the deer. My neighbor the NF is not that great a steward for deer (not much to eat in a pine forest). My only other private neighbor (50 acres) leases to guys who blast music and shoot pistols. I am fine with both of their lack of stewardship. My place benefits greatly.

And I think you are the one not paying attention. All 4 sides are going to be fenced now because one side already is.

Think about that for a second.......he would have to be at the end of an easement for that to completely happen.

I still don't know how you could own a property for 50 years and not improve your water situation. Is he no longer ag exempt ?

He says it wil be HF on ll 4 sides. But maybe the cotton field is across the CR???
Regardless, it sounds like he's screwed unless he can bring in some guzzlers and troughs. He could pay a water truck to come out and refill them once a month during the summer. Volunteer FD would probably do it for a nice donation, if you can work out a deal with someone to get water from a tank or creek.

That's what he says. If he has an easement (which I presume is the case) he will be entitle to have access-just through a gate.

It doesn't make financial sense for most farmers with any sizable acreage to HF. Deer cause little damage compared to hogs, and you can keep the hogs out with a good low fence at half the cost........

Exactly my point, makes little sense, unless you have experienced a problem of some kind......

You are highly mis-informed. I've experienced up to 30% loss, not including transportation of weed seeds.

Deer eat cotton

The seeds maybe? Heck IDK

Yelp. Seeds are high in protein. And they will eat new growth

If you can find a lawyer to take the case and a judge to hear it you can sue for anything. I have never filed suit in my life but probably would in this case. I do think you could sue for negative impact of the value of the land if you can prove that the value actually went down. I know you can't tell a guy where to put a fence but I also know that many cases have been won when a neighbor does something to make his neighbor loose money.

HWY72: "It doesn't make financial sense for most farmers with any sizable acreage to HF. Deer cause little damage compared to hogs, and you can keep the hogs out with a good low fence at half the cost........"


BOBO: "You are highly mis-informed. I've experienced up to 30% loss, not including transportation of weed seeds."

30% loss on how much acreage? If you have a large garden and some deer around that can happen. And you're saying if you don't have deer in the field you don't have to spray for weeds??

Deer eat the carp out of cotten. Young bolls, I have seen mule deer with mouths full of cotton chewing the seed out of it.
I hunted a place in Hartly county years ago and the farmer had a 10 foot fence around his cotton fields.

There are also quite a few acres in Runnels county that are high fenced for the same reason, only to keep the deer out of their cotton and grain fields.

Lol, I have size able acreage. Even then I have heavy loses. I get crop deprivation permits every year and beg for more. Herbicide useage is always higher where I have higher wildlife densities along with fertilizer. I have to much wind and snow for HF or I would. I have he'll just keeping 5' netwire up.

I've got friends that have thousands of acres HF in McCullough county. 100% pure farm land, no trees. Their increase yield paid for the fence.

Economics of a HF aren't has much as you think since its a depricatable improvement. High up front but offsets quickly. On top of that farm land isn't a complex install. You don't have water gaps, etc.


Still BS?

It does to Farmers and Ranchers in the Hill Country also. They have fenced off fields for a long time for livestock grazing only due to high deer populations. They had to just to get a crop for animals to graze. I managed a ranch that had about 70 acres of HF fields just livestock only. They used them to plant corn for silage in the spring and small grains in the fall/winter for grazing.

Cotton is a legume plant and it can be planted as a food plot for deer.

Last time I checked, the difference in a HF vs LF install is probably close to $2 -$3 a foot. For sizable acreage that's a lot of investment just to keep deer out, even over 7 years. I still don't see how the deer can make that much difference. I guess I'll have to take your word for it, because I don't understand how you fellas do the math on the equipment either. Takes a good tax planner........

LF is $2/ft and HF is $4/ft more or less on both. I have seen farmers put up a LF net wire fence just to keep hogs out of crops. Ask a Kansas or Iowa farmer how much crop damage a WT or MD can cause. Almost every farmer I talked to up in western Kansas hates deer. Most want them all killed off and gone.

No its not a legume lol

You are correct. I meant legume type plant(as far as protein quality).

A 5 strand barbed wire is about $2. Field fence is higher depending on vertical and horizontal strands, and quality, basically $3-$4. A 96 to 120" fence will be substantially higher than a 48", not including any dirt or dozer work...

I had a 48" hitensil netwire fence built for $2/ft total(labor and materials). I bought material and paid for the install. For grins I price a HF with me buying materials and it was $4/ft total(labor and materials). Goliad County.

Texas WT eats up to 6lbs of food a day.

Since the browse figure 3lbs of AG

1 deer= 1095lbs a year
60 deer=64,700lbs
100 deer= 109,500lbs

Wether grain or steam that's a lot.
Most farmers rotate summer/winter crops

So say quarter a year of corn alone for 100 deer is roughly 25,000lbs
@ $4 per bushel that's expensive.

On winter wheat it gets just as bad since deer will eat stalk to the ground. So on top of lower yields you have higher fertilizer costs just to try to produce a crop

Then you have to break it down further since deer can't live by corn alone.

He did. He also did not include the damaged crop knocked to the ground and not able to be harvested

Send me the guys number!
I paid +- $1 per foot labor on a 6 strand BW. The materials were +-$1 2 years ago. Statite 1348 + 1 strand of BW on top would have been closer to $3.

They love the blooms.

Split the half in half, might keep it close for pivot acreage.

I don't know how many lbs to a bushel, or how many bushels to an acre, but based on your 30% loss you have 100 deer grazing in a field that's producing 365,000 lbs..............seems like a very high deer population.

I paid .75/ft labor plus $40/corner post( 36 corner post with 5 post turn corners, 3 post end corners and 2 post pull braces every quarter mile I had a lot of breaks in 6100' of fence). I bought 8"top x 10' cedar corner posts for $35. T-post were heavy 1.33 6.5' for $4.67 on 15' centers. 660' rolls of Staytuff ST 949-24-660 for $290/roll. Gaucho 4pt barb on top, brace pipes and extra clips where extra.

This thread has a little bit of everything in it

Keeps you coming back to check don't it?

yep

Build a 100ac pond/tank/water pit/reservoir and plant seasonal crops around it. Market the place as a duck and pove paradise, run corporate hunts for $600/day/person. Run pheasant hunts and trailer in the occasional exotic.



Now it has everything.

I'd did since the corn figure was for 4 months only...

I'll keep it easy for you.... Figure the tonage on alfalfa.

It gets really nasty if you figure in 3 years of drought and higher utilization plus higher per ton price.

I thought the crop insurance paid out more than going through the hassle of actually harvesting in them drought years. Seems deer would be doing folks a favor.

Spent all week hunting those places in Maryland. Drove me insane seeing standing corn. They didn't care they owned hedge funds...gets even better when they tell you they spent zero money on thier ponds...DU did them for free.

I know plenty about the drought. I've reduced my cattle numbers by 75% since 2010 and I still don't have much grass...

I'm already brewing over the numbers I just had to re-remind myself of...don't get me started on the insurance program.. Lol

I'me a tenth of what I was on cow calf. I'm right there with you buddy!!

I may never buy another head. Scares me. But same time I look at feeder prices and cry!

Dang I wish I could find Labor for .75 a foot. I just paid 1.50 a foot plus materials here in Albany.

At what measurement AGL does a LF stop and a HF begin?

I guess it would depend on your definition of "low" and "high".............if you're attempting to keep deer from passing then around 8' min??

Deter vs out/in

100% Out/In I'd say 9' up and foot in the ground

Deter anything under 9'

I still do not have a definite answer. Where does a LF end and a HF begin? Is it at 3' 4' 5' 6' 7' 8' 9' 50'?

That will depend on who is giving the "definite answer".

42" is a low fence. so there ya go........

Speak for yourself

So if you hunt Corsican, Texas Dall, or black Rams that are in a 43" fence you are hunting them HF?

Say you have a WT buck that has a broke leg and cannot jump a low fence. He is over 250" typical. If you shoot him in a 42" fence does that make it a HF since he can't jump it? What does B&C say about this?

Sorry TREX, we all have our crosses to bare

Don I meant 48" Didn't realize I put "42" until I read you're reply. 42 would almost work for a "short mod"......

I never hunted them, but if I did and they where in a 48" fence, I'd call it LF.

What would be a LF for a wildlife park", thinking a giraffe would just be annoyed by a 4' fence LOL

Maybe all LF's are HF's cut in half!

Don't worry about me I am just stirring the pot.

Almost time for a new keyboard..... Don, I was just stirring back.

It's going over the fence like a 3-legged cat...that's why they have 4.

Does B&C score 3 legged cats?

Blackbuck, oryx, addax too.

If u snipe a desert bighorn on it's only water for miles with zero cover.... it's fair chase tho.

C'mon don. You know it all depends on how the cat got hobbled.

You own half of the bottom 4 feet of that fence so you can put as many deer gaps in the bottom 4 feet as you want.

Not sure where you got that info from. But you really ought to slap the livin chit out of'em.

x2