Black panther? Or am i crazy

So we just purchased land in freestone county last weekend that hasn't been used in many years. We have seen tons of deer but they other evening we saw something that we can't explain. The grass around the hole land is about 3-4 feet tall since it hasn't been used but when we were sitting in a deer blind the other day we some something back sticking out walking into the woods. Had shoulder blades that moved like a cat. Are their black Coyotes or is it possible for us to have a black panther?

Black coyote would actually be possible, black Panthers are not.

My vote is hog.

Could be a black panther. I know on my father in law's place in Freestone co they have seen a few over the years.

Black panthers, the mythical creature of campfire lore. This ought to get good.

I'm am 100% positive it was not a hog, it had a completely different body. My best guess is black coyote or neighbor dog or something. But this thing moved much differently that a dog, but who knows

Jaguarundi, the tail is the tell all. Did you see it's tail.

A buddy of mine used to have a place in Rock Springs. He saw what he thought was a black panther right at dark one evening so he shot, dropped it. Turned out to be a black HOUSE CAT!!! Haha how's that for a campfire story??? (This is a true story)

Did no see a tail but has I said the grass was up to this things back since it's over grown so his tail would have to be up in the air. Hopefully we will find something on our game cameras

I saw bigfoot, we had a beer.

to THF.

You'll find that there are some things that should be phrased in very protected ways on this forum!

If I see something I cant identify, I usually check for any tracks that may have been left behind.

I'm not gonna say you didn't see a lion, i have once seen a Mountain Lion in east Texas, but it was a plain ole brown one, they do roam allover the state. It was late in the evening, so it could have been just a plain ole brown lion. Do a google search on Melanistic Mountain Lions, and see what you find out.

the grass was too tall where he was walking for there to be tracks but we do have paw prints all of our land. most are obviously coyotes but we saw a pair that were different from all the others with the two middle toes sticking out farther. the print wasn't round like all the others

sure does make you think twice when your walking into your stand early morning ..lol

Barn vat

and even then.......

Caught a melanistic lynx in Alaska so I'm sure there has to be a few bobcats like that around ?

Could be black panther. We have a few roaming around. We are west of you though.

There is no such thing as a black panther. There are only melanistic versions of Mtn. Lions, Bobcats, coyotes etc. Black Jaguars natural range stops at southern Texas. Maybe someones big cat pet escaped. Do a quick google search and you'll find all the info you need on this subject.

I googled and found my own reply that says they do exist.

No, no they have not.

There is no melanistic version of a mountain lion.

Google leads people to believe that bigfoot exists...

Jaguarundi's summer range is south texas, but they have made it as far north as East Texas. I have seen one at 45 yds. Over the years, people who I know and trust have seen them also. Take it or leave it.

lived in the country, leon county 30 years, they are here whatever you care to call them they are here. If you are ever out at night and one of them screams even relatively close you will know they are here. Makes the hair stand straight up on the back of your neck.

"Sorry I had a fight in the middle of your black panther party."

I worked a Black Panther demonstration at the State Capitol once. I heard one of them scream and you're right. The hair on my neck (and everywhere else) stood on end. Jeeze, she had some lungs.

Did it look kinda like this critter Garett?

I had some family friends living down in STX near Basthop, after the wild fires. they had called me to come down set up cameras because they had seen tracks of a cat or big dog they said, totally unsure telling me the desceiption. Well then a donkey 3 goats where mangeled by some animal they said. So I loaded up and came placed cameras and got the critter eating on some beef liver I placed out.. Needles to say week of sitting he never showed up ..

black barn cat...I bet you have a few less critters because of it too

I've had the privilege of seeing a half dozen mountain lions in the wild, and a couple I was able to observe them for several minutes.
Sunshine and shadows can play tricks on the eyes. I've seen one appear black only to step into the sunlight and turn a bright tan.
Yes, there is no doubt in my mind people have seen what they believe to be black panthers.

To the skeptics.. There have been three confirmed cases of black mt lions. They are not fiction just incredibly rare. Most notably Miguel Ruiz Herrero killed one in 1959 which was confirmed by a zoology professor . Also the jaguar does appear in the color and the one they tagged and fitted with a GPS outside Tulsan Arizona in 2012 has been tracked moving as far north as grand canyon np farthest north outpost. Meaning though unlikely, it it possible he op is correct.

One faded photograph of what was described as a "dusky" colored cat by Miguel Ruiz Herroro. I am now convinced. Links to the other 2 of these "confirmed cases" if you don't mind.

We've got a black coyote on our place.

. from my understanding they don't present as a true black but rather a dark dusky gray with slightly lighter underbelly.

I don't remember the details of the other two but I'll try..

Agreed

. Only makes small mention to the case but it's the best I found on short notice. I'm sure you can find a more in depth article with a little digging.
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2007/06/01/multiple-new-species-of-large/

So what you are saying is, there are three confirmed cases of "dusky gray" mountain lion not a true black mountain lion(which does not exist).

I saw a black coyote while hunting with my Grandfather about 30 years ago, just outside of Fairfield in Freestone County. I will never forget those times hunting with the Oldtimer.

To clarify my statement. I should have said Melanistic, not black. The second issue to that is that the world's leading zoologist specializing in new species discovery (you can find the info on him in my last post) is currently working out the paperwork for the distinction of a new subspecies that is described as (generally black in color.)

With all the TC in use here in Texas you would think someone would have gotten one clear picture of a melanistic or dusky gray or black cat. Yet there is none. Same for Bigfoot. Not one clear confirmed pic. Why is that?

People who have seen all these black panthers crack me up. The rancher on our last lease said he's seen about 5 on the land. I was like sure you have buddy.

agree for the most part. In my opinion 99.9 % of accounts are false, exaggerated or mistakenly identified.

my point is that 99.9 % of Chinese are under 6' but Yao Ming exists.
no matter how remote, the possibility exists that there is one somewhere and whose to say op didn't see it?

Can not see what does not exist.

That's not a good example because while much of China is full of small people, there are areas that have historically produced large numbers of enormous people.

There are literally zero occurrences of black panthers in Texas, other than those in a zoo. And having done the research, there are zero reports of black panthers having escaped from zoos. Sure, somebody could have smuggled a couple in that escaped at some point, but a good 15% of this board not only believes they or someone they know has seen one, they've typically seen several of them.

It's so absurd it's hilarious. Which is why I love this topic.

I was at my farm last week and saw a black panther, Bigfoot, and a Chupa. I shot them all in the neck with my DPMS .223 at a confirmed 1080 yards. They were all DRT. I had them all gathered for a group selfie-but then Puff The Magic Dragon swooped down and carried them all off.




At least that's what I remember.....

not a good one maybe but you get the point.

and what's referred to as a black panther escaping from zoo's are jaguars not puma's. No one could possibly denied within reason the existence of black jaguar. The existence or witch has been well documented and studied both in captivity and in the wild

Yes. So have Komodo Dragons and Panda bears. Don't mean you're gonna see one roaming a pasture in Freestone County, TX.

if you see puff again make sure to call me! I've been wanting me some more dragon meat!

What has better odds? Seeing a black mountain lion/panther or winning the Mega Millions Lottery with it is well over $100,000,000+?

Not in the wild in Texas.

And yes, I know they exist. So do narwhal. See any of those swimming the Trinity lately?

No but I've seen them up here in the Red

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/red-panda-missing

http://www.edu.pe.ca/southernkings/jaguar.htm

Chupacabra?

The picture I posted is 100% true no photo shop nor editing.. That cat had killed goats and donkeys.

The picture I posted is 100% true no photo shop nor editing.. That cat had killed goats and donkeys.

Were the goats and donkeys the Pygmy Goats and Minature Donkeys by chance? Even then I would think a house cat like the one above when still be in for a surprise.

http://www.gonzalesinquirer.com/news/article_5ee31547-279e-5a4b-bb8e-37bff44f98a9.html

Never know what you gonna find South of I-10

Hey, I see you know Puff too!

Stx --- maybe? What else?

Stx -- if you can tell me what was at the entrance of the gate. I'm gonna say this is a small [censored] world lmao

Not even maybe. Look at the pics before and after for size reference as to what that house cat is standing next to.

I'm trying to find the other pics of the cat. I'm going threw my old Sim cards its deff bigger then it looks ..

Also in one picture it has what I call Ghost Spots

My only question is why is everyone so sure they know everything that is and is not in the woods. It's not hard to stay away from people all your life if you are a wild animal. I meen just think out of all the deer we have on camera and we think we see them all but year after year old bucks live and die they we never knew where alive until we find a half eatin body.

Agree BUBBA

The tracks left and around the pond they have where as big as my palm. Not of a cyote nor house cat.

Millions of trail cameras are running every day in Texas. Not one single pic of a black mountain lion/panther. Wonder why?

Entire species are a little different than individual members within a native species. I know what species are in/not in certain places because I have some outdoor experience. Plus, I know how to read.

Monster quest did an entire show on the existence of black panthers/mt lions and every case that had video or photographic evidence proved to be a black house cat. The problem is at range, people's depth perception is off and believe the cat is much larger than normal. Scientists also claim that there is no confirmed existence of melanistic mt lion ever being born in captivity or even the genetic anomaly for one to exist. My conclusion, they don't exist. Stay in the woods long enough and your eyes will fool you.

maybe you choose not to? Polor and grizzly bears don't cross but they do, in the coarse of a year 4 different species of lizard were discovered in California, a new subspecies of white tail, new frog in central park,freshwater shark in Australia that gets at least 6', two new large predators in south America with a possible third that's not been classified yet, wolves in Missouri - who's to say you're better at finding theses things than anyone else?

You just made everyone's point.

We find their half eaten body.

Or their skeleton.

Or their sheds.

Or their body dead on the road.

There is literally zero evidence of black panthers. They don't get hit by cars. They don't die of natural causes apparently. The magically evade each of the 2000000 game cameras in the Texas woods.

They don't exist here. They never have. They're no different than bigfoot.

If you have never in your life seen something that you can not explain while you are out in the woods, then you have not been in the woods enough.

did someone say black panthers?

http://gonzalescannon.com/2014/02/13/be-aware-hunters-big-cats-arent-alien-to-these-parts/

I think this one just got published in this weeks local paper.

So what does that mean exactly? That if you haven't seen a black panther you are not an experienced woodsman? Oh, OK.

I have been in the woods plenty. I have seen things I can't explain. But I simply say I saw something I can't explain. I don't call them black panthers, Bigfoot, Chupas, or the Blair Witch.

Lordy, IDK why I am on here.....

Blahahahahahaha

No I didn't say that at all but it proves my point. We all have seen somethin we can not explain so how can we dismiss someone else's claim of what they saw.

You learn a lot about people on these threads.....

Meh....

Meh...

El Cuppa Stinkin Cabbra has returned!

I sure wish we had cell phones with camera's back in the 80's like we do today. I bet I caught a half dozen wild black cats that look pretty big. I remember one we caught in a snare at the barn that my dad had the back legs up to his chest and the front legs were on the ground (my dad is 5' 10").

How would you know the skeleton of a large cat was a black cat...or that it wasn't

Just look at his sheds,

And there you have it

Where is Colt 45?
Colt, if you aint too busy playin laser tag tonight.......
Can you cifer up for us how many acres Texas is and also come up with a number of how many game cameras there are based on the total number of licences sales at 3 cameras per licence?
I would do it, but the Novocaine wore off about 3 hours ago and I been up ince 2am.

With all these black panther sightings, why isn't there a season for them? By all accounts I hear about, there are more black panthers than 180" low fence deer.

I darn sure don't want these black panthers mating with my pink unicorns....

I posted proof, and still non-believers...unbelievable

About 1.5 million licenses
4.5 million cameras
Camera covers approx 1 acre
About 168 million acres in texas
163.5 million acres not covered by cameras in Texas...

Can't write like colt, but he would say:


yep gonna make a pappy sammich and cuz they was and I was but no one was hurt. As pappy always said grab a pander by da tale and you gonna get bit

I am postaddic

Txhtr --- I myself have proof I believe that they are in STX. The local GW even came when my family called. They stated that the other people in the area had seen the same cat on camera and dead animals from it.

TheGW said the Wild Fires had possibly run them to there area. Since it was a heavy wooded area and semi rocky.

Cause nobody makes a Kitty Chow feeder to lure them in.

I am not questioning your evidence...well, yes I am...but do you have any other game pics from that same set up that shows another animal for reference on size? From the structure of that cat, it looks like a big Tom, but still a house cat.

I assume you are talking about the picture that you posted earlier in this thread.

I actually wouldn't be as surprised as most on this forum if one was shot. A little different than a BF in my opion, simply because there are big black cats known in the world and some even in Texas. Though there is absolutely no proof of a black mountain lion or panther, there are large black cats like the jaguar that were considered native to Texas at one time. Also, black bobcats and jaguarandi have been captured and seen.

F|_|(k!ng hysterical!

True story. Old neighbors of mine, when they first moved in, saw a black panther. When they were telling me about the encounter I listened and put on my best 'yo-that's-scary-stuff' face until they went into such great detail saying "We were so close we could see its green eyes - they were gorgeous". Well folks, that blank panther was my 15 pound house cat, Cole.

I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin.

Bastrop is not STX.
I was at a WMA meeting in early October when the GW was giving his annual Q&A part of the meeting. Someone ask him about a "lion" they had seen and was worried about it killing all the game and livestock in their area. First question GW ask him was "do you own a trail camera"? He said yes. He asked him if he had any pics of the "lion" he had been seeing. The man answer no. Then the GW asked everyone in the audience to show their hands if they owned a trail camera. Everyone raised their hands. He then asked them how many had gotten any pics of a mountain lion. Not one person said yes. He went on to say, that of course mountain lions do exist but he said they are rare. If they were more common and seen on a regular basis they would be seen more often on trail cams especially from this group that ranged over the whole county with their land. Mountains are known to exist and are killed/seen. They get pics of them. But yet not one single pic of this black mountain lion/panther. Again, why? The GW that came by in your case probably said it might have been a mountain lion, but I can assure you he did not say it was a black mountain or panther. I am sure all those other people had a black cat on their cameras, but it was not a black mountain lion/panther. Mountain Lion, maybe but not black. Bobcat, probably. Black house cat like you have a pic of, absolutely.

It's discussions like these that make me lose my faith in mankind.

Back when I was homicide investigator we investigated every death case. Our approach was to investigate it as a homicide until the evidence clearly showed that it was not. Then form a conclusion based on the evidence.

Take a similar approach with black wild cats, bigfootuses, chupacabras, dragons and other mythical creatures. The lack of evidence of their existence is clear evidence that they DO NOT exist, except in the minds of imaginative and foolish people.

But I posted proof!!!!

Then you fall into the category highlighted in red.

But it is picture proofs

Okay now you fall into the category highlighted in green, also

But they are pictures of big black cats!!!! Go back and look. Show me one that isn't a big black cat or couldn't be mistaken for a big black cat. People are seeing them everywhere!!! They are real!!! You are wrong!!!




....ah hell, even I can't keep arguing on this side of the argument

txshntr, you can't say that nonsense with a straight face.

Something else that I've learned from all my detective work is that eyewitness testimony is the most subjective and least dependable.

I've had cases where I had video of an incident and 4 or 5 witnesses. The witness accounts are never the same and more often than not, they do not jive with the video. It's the human condition. Our recollection of events is subjected to our feelings, emotions, impressions, prior experiences, beliefs, etc. All of those factors play a significant role in how we recall an event.

I gave it a damn good effort.

I believe that the people that see black panthers truly believe they saw a black panther. I have a cousin that lives in ETX and swears he has seen three. I believe him and he is as honest as they come. I don't believe he saw one, but believe he thinks he did.

In one of my CJ classes, they had a guy come in and get into an argument with the teacher, then run off. Teacher kept teaching after the incident and 5 minutes later had the class write a description. The results were comical. There were 50 people in that class and no one got everything right and some were so far off it was scary.

Perzactly

Hey y'all I saw a black whitetail on my place. I don't have any pictures but I seen him I swear. Black as day I mean dark as black. Anyways that brings me to my next point don't do drugs.

Call it how you see fit, but he's not one to

If you want to use a technical term go for it, doesn't hurt my feelings. All I know is my FIL and MIL both saw a "black panther", black mountain lion, whatever you want to call it, behind his house, and has also seen one out on their ranch.

There's lots of black (melanistic) deer in Texas. I've got pics of a few and have posted them here. That still doesn't change the fact that there aren't black pumas, cougars, mountain lion, panthers or any other similar critter.

No one will ever argue that they think they saw something. Just they did not see a black panther or black moutain lion.

guess someone spray painted it then cuz it sure wasn't a house cat

So I typically get on this site every day and read what's going on in the world of deer hunting, and look at few new pics of dirt napped dear, but I rarely ever speak up because I'm not sure I would add value to the thread, but now I feel like I have to say something after reading all of this.......

Back in 2002 off of 380 my dad had some land and a camera out. He had his house on it, and we didn't hunt there, but we kept the camera out for fun. There was a confirmed sighting of a mountain lion in the area so we always hoped we'd get a pic. THEN....IT HAPPENED. Except it was even better, it was a young panther! Black as night, and in a tree. We immediately called the game warden, and he was stunned at out picture. So he called a biologist, and before we knew it there was a game warden and biologist standing in my dad's living room looking at his pics of his camera. Then the biologist laughed so hard.....She told us it was a grey fox. My response, "No way! It's black, looks like a cat and is in a tree." The game warden agreed. She told us that a fox can climb a tree (only K9 that can). She also said they can be black and get quite large, and from 30 yards look like a cat.

I had to test this theory. So I put out a trap, AND I CAUGHT IT!!! Darn woman knows her foxes. I caught a 38 pound really dark almost black grey fox that on camera from 30 yards away looks like a cat. I was more than disappointed, and humbled.

So to the point of someone seeing a panther, I too believe they thought they saw one. But after the biologist came out and confirmed my impressive fox capture she told me a black panther is a myth and don't exist anywhere on the planet. What we're "seeing" is most likely a melanistic ocelot or bobcat (which have been confirmed according to her). It's also possibly a stray large tom. She also said there's no such thing as a melanistic mountain lion recorded anywhere in captivity or in the wild.

There is a melanistic leopard that lives in Asia (many of them), and there is a such thing as a melanistic jaguar that ranges from Mexico to southern Arizona. She confirmed that too. Of course I asked, could one exist in Texas? Her response was, "our habitat could support one, but there's no documented jaguar melanistic or not since the early 20th century. So one could wonder or be pushed here, but you're more likely to win the lottery."

So after reading this entire thread of people knowing what they saw, and winning the lottery, etc. I felt like I had to share my story. I knew what I saw too. I even had pics. I didn't believe in them, until I was "positive I saw one too." I was wrong, but straight from the biologists mouth it's possible. You're just more likely to win the lottery.

Last thing, to Txshntr........the pics of 9/3/07 and 1/23/14 make me belive there's some melanistic cat out there, but not a panther. But far too big to be something I'd like to run into. I'd like to know where those pics were from? The other pics looked like big house cats to me. Except the pics from 1/18/12 and 1/02/00. Those looked like my big ol' grey fox panther. lol.


Sorry for the long post. Panthers don't exist. melanistic animals do. It was probably a coyote, or bobcat, or something melanistic. I even once believed in Santa. He's not even melanistic.

So to sum it up the best I know how I'll quote Jim Carey from Dumb and Dumber "So you're saying there's a chance!"

A 38 lb grey fox?

I was just messing around. shhheesh some of the threads sure get heated.

No. 28 lb. grey fox. Someone decided to put the 2 next to the 3 on the keyboard. And yes, that's still huge I know, and if you still want to chomp the popcorn you can. None the less, it's what we had climbing a tree that sure looked like a 50 lb cat, but wasn't. (this message was proffed for typo's)

I don't think I have even killed a 38lb Yote.

One thing no one has mentioned is Fort Worth was at one point among many nick names called panther city. I believe the story was one or multiple black panthers were kept by the fire department and at some point released them because they were a hassle or something. Some of the cities older architecture I believe it is the post office includes panthers carvings. I could be way off but hey maybe one of them survived and has populated the state and no one has proved however unlikely.

Time to put out some good game cameras that shoot 5 plus seconds of 1080P video for filming.
then the truth will be there! Have 1 running now and it shows it all!

Paradise Panthers. Paradise I.S.D.

This thread is a trip.

And you keep coming back....can't stand being wrong can ya

Lol I guess I've got a lot to learn.....

to those of you who HAVENT seen one its pure fodder and fun to talk chit about something you werent fortunate enough to see...my grandfather and i saw one almost 40 years ago and i'll take my grandfathers word what it was over a bunch of 2 bit city boys who wouldnt know their hind end from a hole in the ground....btw he was raised in Winkler fishing and hunting on the Richland and Tawakoni creeks in Freestone county good hunting there never know what you might see!


present company excluded of course!

I'm sure your grandfather was sure of what he saw but he didn't see a black mountain lion. Black mountain lions do not exist. Black jaguars exist, black bobcats exist and black house cats exist and any eye witness accounts or pictures of black cats are one of the three.

If I was to see a very large black cat that was the size of a mountain lion I would know it wasn't a mountain lion.

this is better than the 3 stooges

black cats in this area is known as a puma.just call fort worth zoo and ask,as my mom was a docent for 15yrs.we have seen them in wise county

So with all the "black panther" sightings in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, South Dakota, Iowa, Missouri,
Arkansas, and Louisiana I've read about over the last few years. You think one would be shot by now. If it's just a black mountain lion, why don't we ever see them in Colorado, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico or Arizona, with all the hound hunters being so successful?! These guides/outfitters have great success, tracking and killing mountain lions........but we never see a black one.

Maybe someone should invite one of these hound hunters down here to Oklahoma and Texas to finally kill the elusive black cat! As many sightings as I've heard through internet forum stories, facebook, and face to face, they should surely be able to cut a track and tree a "black panther" in less than a day

Use to have them visit the Dickens County area around Dumont for about a few weeks hunting and then disappeared...........

I live deep in the woods of East Texas. Very close to the Sabine River. There are woods on all four sides of our house. We don't really have neighbors. We have a spot at the edge of he woods where we discard our food waste. We are interested in what kind of animals we can attract. We also raise chickens, turkeys, and peafowl. A friend was over and noticed a black cat at the location of our waste pile. She quickly brought it to my attention. We were able to watch it for several minutes. It was larger than a house cat, but definitely not a full grown cat of the leopard family. The one thing we observed was the long tail. It had a very long slender tail almost the same length of its body and there was a small round clump of hair at the end of the tail. I got concerned for our turkeys since they are let out to roam during the day. So, I got my gun. I took aim and shot. I think I was a little excited. The cat jumped straight up and then ran into the woods. It was our opinions that it was not a house cat. From the internet and from a NATGEO show that air a day later, what we saw was a young big cat. Of course, our hunter friends find it hard to believe and probably do not believe it.

Two middle toes sticking out further is a coyote.

LOL. That quote is spot on. I just love all the stories of the oh so common "Texas Black Panther".