How would you manage this?

Here's the situation: I am married to the oldest sister in a family of five siblings, and their last parent (dad) just passed a couple of months ago. The family property is just over 500 acres with some awesome deer that are there ONLY because my BIL and I feed year-round, but several in the family want to hunt and some have brought their friends and their friend's kids to hunt.
I love the family aspect of the situation, but frankly, I'm tired of paying big bucks for everyone else to kill trophy deer on my dime.
My plan is for everyone that wants to hunt to pay for at least ten bags of corn per deer killed, which is stupidly cheap considering that we are regularly killing 140"+ and non-typical deer, including a 125" double drop-tine buck that my stepson killed a couple of years ago.
Am I wrong in thinking that everyone involved should NOT be inviting friends, cousins, etc. to hunt on MY dime?
I know that it's a bit unique because there are five siblings and four spouses involved, but there are only two of us spouses footing all of the bills.

Any ideas or personal experiences?

BTW, everyone else hunts out of our blinds also. The last guy that hunted my blind killed a 140"+ buck and a big doe, burned up a full propane bottle, and I don't even know his name. I do know that I crawled into my blind to find a heater that didn't work, a chair that would no longer go up, and a blind that smelled like moldy cheese, all for the low low price of $250/mo. worth of corn and protein and being kicked out of my own blind for the weekend, a situation that will NEVER happen again...

Sounds like one of those deals that will never end well. Personally, I would have others pony up, but with that many folks hunting the place, you wont be taking 140" deer long IMO.

Think I would have a "heart to heart" with the other relative footing the bill and maybe let him present y'alls plan, may go over better.

I wouldn't spend another dime with the return you're getting though, but that is just me.

That's a tuff one. The best thing u can do is politely talk to those involved and get them to realize things. If others r going to hunt besides immediate family then set some ground rules like spike and antler less only. If u have a a game cam then print pics of deer u think r culls that others non family and family should kill. Also the respect aspect needs to be put in effect big time!!! Be respectful of the siblings and explain to them calmly if u get upset or pissed then u may be asked to get off completely even though u r the one that's done the work. Also look 4 another secret spot and put a feeder up that way no one else knows.

I hate to say it, I've seen similar situations before, but if you are not an OWNER, you have no say in what takes place. If you choose to spend your money, and effort, knowing these things will happen, its on you.

You've handled it better than I would. That's the reason I can't share a lease, not good with sharing personal space. I'm not sure what the answer is but you better get a handle on it now.

IF I allow a visitor to come out the rules are I'm there and they shoot what I say. You've told me where you hunt and that county is 1 buck for a reason. Everybody shooting bucks every year will ruin your place, you know it and I know it.

Just bring up you are going to have to lease the place out to cover the expenses you two are encountering since ya'll are the only ones footing the bill.

Like others, I don't see a win/win deal here. If it were me, and it's not, I'd try to reason with the family. Good luck on that.

There are a lot of possible approaches to take but I doubt that any will work. I would damn sure put a lock on my deer stands.

Blood is thicker than water, and you're not family. So good luck getting traction on your own. The like-minded BIL should be carrying the flag, not you. He would be your best hope in getting a resolution because he IS family.

And it sounds like there's a family tradition in everyone hunting opening weekend, Thanksgiving, etc. Swim against that tide and someone may show you the door. And unless you personally own your stand and feeder, getting territorial and refusing to share with others might torpedo your own hunting rights as an invited in-law.

Think of it this way: Go out and price the cost of good leases these days. You have a free place to hunt, and all you pay is a bill for corn. That's a cush deal!

I could not handle it, I believe I would just get another lease. What is the families plan with the property? Maybe time too sell, and BIL and yourself buy a small place.

This, blood is thicker than marriage. Fact of life. Understand that and accept it and politely try to come to some agreement with the "blood relatives" or look elsewhere to take your game. Just remember that you'll be paying lease payments in addition to the feeding should you do that.

Get another lease.

We are in a similar situation on my stepdad's family farm. Only issue there is there are ~12 different owners (out to second cousins), and noone ever knows what the hell is going on.

We have just decided we are willing to work & pay for the corn to deer hunt, it is still cheaper than leasing the same land. We just lock our blinds, game cams, trailer, etc, but they still get messed with sometimes. We decided not to do a significant amount of work though (food plots, brush clearing, habitat management, etc.), since we don't actually have control of the property.

We have let several nice young bucks walk, only to have others shoot them at first sight. Make the best of the situation, try the heart-to-heart, but get ready to go find someplace else if you seriously want to invest in a property.

Sorry to hear your situation

Good luck. You need to talk to your BIL, but remember you're the outsider. I know if it were my family and they read this post, they would say " quit buying corn or stop complaining. You got a place to hunt."

You are going to be disappointed and most likely cause some hard feeling amongst the family if you continue down you current path. Solutions: quite managing and spending a bunch of money on the place and just let everyone enjoy and do whatever or find another place and start over. I don't see any other alternative that will work out well for you.

has the property been given to the siblings since the last parent passed away?

if you're married to an owner, then you are a property owner... unless specifically stated, it's joint property for married people. sounds like it needs to be deeded off 100 acres each, or if they want to keep it together, form some sort of co-op with voting rights.

Not true. Anything OP's wife received by gift or devise is her separate property. STX has the right idea here. If you want control over the hunting, you need to lease the place.

Need to talk with the 4 other families and set some ground rules. Gotta try to make them understand what you and your bil are trying to do and how much it costs. I'm sure yall could find some kind of compromise where they kick in for costs, or agree that only those paying get to shoot "trophy" bucks. Best of luck to you!

Who pays the taxes? Electric bill? You need to be pro-active in this regard. If you and BIL pay the taxes on the place that would seem to me to go a long way in giving you ownership.

Have your wife and BIL call a family meeting and determine how to manage the property moving forward. Do they want to keep it or sell it off for the proceeds and to cover the estate tax.

If being kept, establish agreed upon rules for family and guests.
Provide last year's and this year's cost to run and manage a lease as a point of reference.
Put a lock on your stands/blinds/equipment

But this will not end well, too many points of view and family entitlement. May be worthwhile to consider buying out the other siblings share.

Been there. Go kill what you can while you can. Be selling it before long.

How old are the siblings? These all grown kids?

Sounds like a bad deal, glad me and my siblings see eye to eye.

I agree with this too. Who is paying the bills on this land? Lord sure hope someone is.

Yep. Seen this ending too. Just hunt while you can. Don't start no chit won't be no chit and keep the peace.

I believe Kyle is correct. In Texas, anything brought into the marriage - whether it be gift or not - belongs to the marriage, not either person individually. Her percentage of the property is half the OP's.

I certainly wouldn't go about it like I owned half of the land. Crap will hit the fan and it will be awful…especially considering the fact this is over hunting deer and the cost of corn.

Put the family first and it will work out.

I may wrong on about 99% of my age and score guesses, but if there is one thing I know really well, it's Texas community property law. The OP's wife's share of income off the land, if any, would be community property, but the wife's undivided interest in the land itself is her separate property. However, if OP and wife are using community funds to improve the property, the OP might be entitled to an equitable right of reimbursement in the event of divorce. Unfortunately all that info. does nothing to help OP with the situation. As noted by other posters, these situations usually end with a sale. But, if this ranch is like most other Texas ranches, it operates well into the red. The OP should consider offering to lease the hunting rights. It would help offset the ranch's non-hunting expenses, maybe put a little money in the leasing owners pockets, and give OP some legitimate control over the hunting operations.

You already have 20% equity... buy em out.

40% if he goes in with the BIL.

That makes a note to purchase the remaining interests reasonably affordable. Not a bad way to acquire a starter ranch.

Maybe that will get some wheels turning sure know I would jump at it.

this is an example that could be used in relation to hunting....but my brothers family owns a piece of property where they run cattle. several people own a stake in it. they have a yearly cost of feed/fences/maintenance/etc....if you want to participate in the activity...then you have to participate in the cost. simple as that.

so take that scenario...and then on our own personal family place. its a smaller acreage that will not accommodate everyone simply filling tags on whatever they feel like. so we have a management plan that comes first and foremost. if the management plan says we will shoot a certain number of deer that year then that is all that gets shot. however many does, however many bucks. of the bucks...some are spikes, some are nice deer. we rotate who's turn it is to harvest a nice deer....so you might not get one but every couple years. does and culls are just divided by the number of folks interested in shooting them. hogs are completely open season.

its tough to manage when you got that many hands in the pot. but I think its pretty unreasonable for someone to think that they could not lift a finger or spend a dime all year...and then show up on opening morning and expect to take their pick.

we don't invite that many folks out...but if we do...its for hogs...or if you're inviting someone out for a deer...then its sorta on the understanding that you are giving that person the opportunity to hunt the deer that you yourself would have hunted. it doesn't in any way stretch or extend what was originally set for harvest.

This will have to settled between the siblings. They are most likely the heirs and one or two might even be the executors, he or she should call a meeting and they all discuss how the place is to be managed, with the executor having the last word and making the final decision.

As an in-law you have no vote, your wife has her vote, you can only influence her decision. Lot of things have to be considered, does the family want to keep the property in the family, if they do they need to settle this pretty quick. One option is those that want to hunt the property pay a lease fee to the estate, those that don't won't get to hunt. I wouldn't recommend this, all kinds of crap will happen. Dividing the property up is another option, survey and new deeds, with each sibling gets their part, if that happens the hunting will probably go to hell.

You can adopt me and ill give you $250 for a 140+...

You deserve what you tolerate

The wife inherited the property after the marriage. I think it belongs to both of them equally regardless.

Community funds - all funds in the marriage (regardless of depositor) are community.

Anyway.

Is it set up in a family trust? Greed can take over after people pass. Family members usually start thinking about cruises, new cars, bigger homes, etc. Then they sell the family ranch. I've seen it happen many times. The only way to protect the interest is to put it into a trust. We have one.

At least you have place to hunt...for now! Not everyone even has any/the golden in-laws that own or do" blah blah blah"....hope it works out to your satisfaction!

Bandera, perhaps we can just agree to disagree.

What is it you do for a living again?

Yessir!

Been through this EXACT deal, with four heirs not five.

One hiccup in the ownership, was that those four continued to lease it to the cattle rancher (much larger ranch in my example). Once they did that, the court held that they were equal partners in a business venture, that included the land.

That made it community property applicable. So if they split it before it's earning then the individuals have the ownership but once it is operated as a business once, it belonged to everyone.

One of those parties/heirs is on here if he wants to chime in. This was my brothers' exact legal specialty, and we've discussed it immensely, but then again I never went to law school... didn't have the genes, nor race or gender to go

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know...or in this case, who

Raw deal for the OP. I would hope my family could work it out and would hope my wife's could, but that is rarely the case. People get greedy and stupid sometimes.

[/quote]

The wife inherited the property after the marriage. I think it belongs to both of them equally regardless.

Community funds - all funds in the marriage (regardless of depositor) are community.

Anyway.[/quote]

NOPE....... Grosvenor is correct

Been in the exact same situation. Ended with one sister buying the others out. Also ended with 4 sisters no longer speaking to each other. In hindsight, the property should have been sold off immediately to a 3rd party and the family relations maintained. No deer is worth losing your family over. In the interim, remove your blinds and feeders. When you hunt, use a ground blind and dump corn along a road. See bigger bucks that way anyway. And whatever you do, don't say a word to anybody about any "rules" or regulations. Will go over like a lead balloon. Kill all you can while you can.

NOPE....... Grosvenor is correct [/quote]

I stand corrected.

Sorry, Grosvenor. It was worth the conversation anyhow.

Best of luck to the OP!

I like the idea of throwing it under MLD. Then you have to comply with the TPWD recommendations. This would be the most cost effective solution. Pitch it as habitat improvement and I bet it could be a fairly easy sell.

...Or if any of the other three non-contributing but hunting siblings are more greedy than horny (get it ) throw a lowball offer to buy their interest from them. Then they can only access with an invitation. Imagine that...only inviting the in-laws you like. That's priceless.

the remaining parent should have gifted out the land before he died and kept a life estate in the property. that way its out of his hands and everyone involved knows what's up and so on,,,,, plus no need to have the land go through probate.

just food for thought......

Tell them you want to buy it and everyone can still hunt it if they want.... then after they buy it tell them they can hunt but have to provide their own stands feeders and corn.

Sorry for the late reply, I'm a gunsmith and have been stupidly busy for the last several months.
I'm hoping the situation is going to work itself out as everyone realizes that we can't keep killing deer without a management plan. The BIL (my wife's sister's husband) and I are working to turn around past practices since we and our wives have an actual part ownership now. We are in it for the long haul and will hopefully be able to buy out two of the other siblings in the near future.
One rub is that the property is not really set up for deer hunting, as the father was a farmer and cleared all of the trees off, so we pull deer over through feeding and catch them crossing. There is actually only one tract that covers maybe 200 acres that is really huntable.
I've been voicing my opinion a lot more, and it seems like a lot of these people just thought those feeders, blinds, corn and protein all magically fell from the sky every year, so we will see what happens...

This. I hunt on the 100 acres of family land. my wife's grandmother owns the property. I'm the only one who hunts it right now, but I have no interest in spending a lot of time and money growing a population because there are about 20 family members who "have permission" just like I do to hunt out there. And I know as soon as I soon as I start thinking about growing deer, it'll go to pot and there will be 5 blinds set up.

So I just set up a corn feeder and a popup blind and I'll shoot whatever legal deer I get an opportunity at. I know in the OPs situations it's different though, because he's already put in all the work I'm not willing to do.

Your best answer in my opinion. Other family members are not likely to value deer as much as you do and will never see the sacrifices that you have been making to improve the hunting. To them, it's little more than bringing along a few friends to dinner.