Interesting information from a game warden

One of the hunters on our lease in Comal/Bexar county was stopped by a game warden that was investigating a poaching complaint on a neighboring ranch. The warden checked our hunter and verified he was legal and visited with him a bit about hunting in the area. They talked about how slow things seem to be this year. The warden said that State biologists have been conducting population surveys and preliminary data is showing that between 50-65% of the deer have died due to the drought.

I find that staggering and made sure our hunter had heard things right from the warden...which he swears he did. The warden went on to strongly recommend we take it easy on our does and only shoot very obvious cull bucks for the next year or two. Said the biologists estimate it will take 6 years for the population to recover, IF we have normal rainfall during that time.

The only thing I wonder is if the numbers the game warden was talking about was for our region or if that is a statewide statistic? Anybody else hearing anything like this?

I still find it staggering that even considering best case scenario, HALF the deer have died according to this GW! I guess I just assumed they moved on. I would think that if that is really the case, we would have come across a carcass somewhere on the property? None of our hunters have reported finding any evidence of dead deer.

If the drought really did kill off that many deer, do y'all think it will be a benefit in the long run? Survival of the fittest kind of thing?

Cbar

Worst drought in 50+ years and $3.6 Billion loss, water levels depeleted, scorching heat.
The state's worst drought made the record books for its longevity, spanning a seven-year period during the 1950s. This drought, state weather officials say, is more notable for its intensity.

Del Rio had something like 65 days this last year with temps over 100. Very little rain and what rain did fall came at basically the wrong times or like up around Pandale set off an anthrax outbreak.

Heat stresses deer a lot. Just because your lease/ranch/range looks semi green doesn't mean the available food is nutritious.

If what the GW said is in fact correct, then to help nature restock, supplementing would not be a bad idea, in light of the fact that it does make your deer healthier.

man that sucks if it is true for ur place, i know my place isnt that bad, i think i have more deer everytime i go lol, maybe all ur deer came to victoria county???

It's hard to believe, but I can't argue. My ranch is part of a Wildlife Management Association, and we do a pretty thorough count every year. This last Fall our count was about 40% lower than the previous year. Our harvest thus far this year has been 75% lower than last year!

July 2009
"Summed up in one word: devastating," Texas Agriculture Commissioner Todd Staples said.

Nearly 80 of Texas' 254 counties are in "extreme" or "exceptional" drought, the worst possible levels on the U.S. Department of Agriculture's index. Though other states are experiencing drought, no counties in the continental U.S. outside Texas currently register worse than "severe." In late April, the USDA designated 70 Texas counties as primary natural-disaster areas because of drought, above-normal temperatures and associated wildfires.

Let's not forget we are still also seeing some of the results & effects of 2006 drought

Looking at some of the footage from sep and oct, our bucks looked a bit thin, so there could be some truth in there I'm sure.

The #'s the game warden told your friend are correct. Our area (cross timbers)is still feeling effects of the 2006 drought, sightings and and harvest were way down in '07, and '08, they have just started to come back this year but are still way down compared to pre 2006 #'s. Now take into account we did not have the severe extended drought the hill county has just recently had. I don't think this will warrent the state to adjust bag limits in the hill country, but if the population recovery seem to lag, or the drought continues you might see a change in 2011 or beyond.

Hmmm, when do the number of game that has been harvested reports come out?

I'd be interested in comparing the number of licenses sold vs the number of deer harvested.

how do they know how many deer are harvested?

I hunt in Kendall County. We have seen a huge drop in the number of does we ususally see. Based on that we dropped our culling of does from usual 10-15 to 2.
Our theory is that the bucks hit the protein feeders hard and nothing else got any. Our game cams back up the theory. We are seeing three bucks for every doe right now.

I wonder if it was also a case of lot less births and or miscarriages because of lack of water and food.

Thats certainly not the case out here, our population took about a 25% increase and looks to do the same next year. We were wet all year, the ponds went down but the surface remained fairly wet the whole year. Next year I'm going to have to do some serious doe culling.

We also had wet conditions in Montague County. We have a huge number of yearlings.

Dry in Coryell County, but exceptional herd of does this yr
in August, I saw 5 really good shooter bucks, and 2 came off of the place this year
Saw a really good 9 point chasing a doe yesterday
Rut back in? or just a late doe coming back in?
He was in full pursuit of her

We're in the southern Cross Timbers just north of the hill country and were in the exceptional drought area also. We do our best to take all the deer we're allowed during drought years to give the remaining deer a chance, and it seems to work. Our deer numbers, and quality, have continued to increase.

We have gone from a 3 deer county, to a 4 deer AR, to a 5 deer AR county just in the past 4 years, and this is our first extended season. We're actually having to bring in guests to fill our quota as we still have too many deer, both on the land and in our freezers!

We have had a good year in Mills county. The spring and early summer was dry but late summer and fall were unusually wet. The deer are still in good flesh going into the cold months so hopefully that will sustain them till spring. We still have enough ground moisture to grow a lot of winter grasses in the bottoms and protected areas. I know that is not the case in other areas. Some places just south, east, and west of us are extremely dry. You don't have a sell off of deer during dry times like you do livestock so supplemental feeding is the only option. Good luck and pray for rain.

We have done good not great in Palo Pinto was very dry all summer but received alot of rain in sept. our ground is still wet and the winter grass is doing good. Deer numbers appear to be the same or slightly lower than last year. I did however see alot more cull bucks this year.

I think the harvest is too large in some counties, bag limits too high.... maybe killing too many young ones in the past few years...

they don't, they just do a rough estimate from locker plant surveys.

extreme temperature, lack of rain, and poor nutrition can result in poor conception rates, short term pregnancies (i.e. fawning early which leads to LOW survival rates), late term abortions, and poor milk quality which is crucial those first few days of the fawns life...

You can expect to see "cull" bucks after an extremely dry year like this. If you take them out of your local herd you are only hurting yourself in the future. Deer, bucks in particular need to feed their body first (survival) before anything else like antler growth or embryo growth can happen.

September rain did nothing for antler growth or fawn survival or birth rates. However, it did provide them with nutrients to get into some kind of shape for the rut and winter.

It will be a huge blessing to your area if the soil continues to hold moisture and you all get a decent crop of winter weeds. Those weeds (forbs), if in sufficient numbers, probably pound for pound will do more for your deer than supplementing will do.

Hope that whatever cold snap we have this week doesn't kill those weeds.

Last year only one deer was shot on our lease near Sweetwater. This year only three. Definitely have been seeing a long term decrease in deer numbers on our place. The last tank dried up earlier this year. At least this fall/winter, we have received some beneficial moisture to help the wheat fields.

This year in Hardeman county was a good one. Tons of deer and plenty of good forage which led to good mass (antler and body) on our deer. Now we just need to work on our doe to buck ratio.

We saw a bunch early in Foard County, then it got thin. I think the neighbors know they are off the lease next year and shot everything that moves.... and we are dealing with a bit of road hunting on one place, not that much success just adds a ton of pressure. Overall out west was an OK year. Not the numbers that I like to see but decent sized deer in both racks and bodies.

In east texas.... not so much...

Well, there were a total of 6 deer taken off of our lease (1850 acres) this season. The consensus among our hunters prior to hearing what this GW had to say was that the late rains we had basically created a springlike environment during the fall....meaning we had an explosion of natural forage appear...grasses, acorns, etc. and this was the reason the deer were not coming to the feeders. They didn't need to because of all the food around them.

I took two of the six deer taken. A 7 and an 8 point. These deer seemed very healthy body wise but the racks were not what they should have been considering the age of the deer...3.5 to 4.5 year olds.

I filled my protein feeder back in September and it is still 2/3 full! Last spring, they would go through 300# of protein in a week and a half.

Looks to me like we really need to come up with some sort of plan on our place to help nurture the remaining deer we do have. I still am optimistic after hearing Llanite say the quality of their deer seems to have improved. I think we could foster improvement on our place too if the hunters can be convinced to take a more practical approach in what they harvest. Getting everyone on board with a plan will be a whole different animal though. LOL

Does it make sense to y'all to follow the advice from the GW? Leaving the does alone and taking only cull bucks. Seems logical to me. I don't have any expertise on herd management so any input is welcome.

Thanks,

Cbar

On our place in Menard County, we saw a significant drop in horn quality, but the deer numbers remained about the same. We have a lot of does and harvest as many as we can.

No true trophies were taken this year, but 3-4 cull bucks were harvested.

We supplemented protein in the spring and early summer until rains came, so I'm sure that helped our population stay alive. However, I agree that most of the food this year went to body size, and the horns suffered.

I would listen to him. Does are the baby makers. Given a normal rainfall year most of your does should produce twins. You will have a certain amount of attrition once the fawns hit the ground, but some of that can be mitigated by doind some predator control work.

Supplementing will help. Start now if you can, but those last 3 months before the fawns hit the ground are particularily important because that's when the embryos grow the most. You will also be keeping momma in good shape so that nurishing them doesn't weaken her. After the fawns are on the ground her milk will also be more nutrititious. The fawns themselves will have a better chance at survival since they should have been born healthier thanks to the extra nutrition they received before they were born. But, bear in my, by supplementing you are basically just giving Mother Nature a back-up.

On cull bucks, again, be careful what you call a cull. It is entirely possible that those bucks would have been trophies if they had the proper nutrition throughout all of last year. Bucks have to feed their muscular/skeleton system first before any excess nutrients make it to the antlers for growth. Yes, they'll still have antlers but they won't be what they could be. I'm talking basic 8 and 10 pters. here, not something 6.5 yo with the rack growing sideways and down and having 3 points.

If that protein feeder is still 2/3 rds full I'd say dump it and put fresh in there.

Good luck with it and I hope you have at least a normal rainfall year this year.

Great input Deerfeeder. Thank you. You mentioned predator control. That is something we discussed heavily this past weekend. The coyotes are definitely a problem to work on and is something I think we all will take part in. I opened up my protein feeder Sunday and it all still smells fresh and wasn't powdery at all. Looked to still be good. Maybe it is just a funky batch? Guess I'll recover it and use it to bait hog traps and reload with fresh stuff.

Cbar

If the stuff in your protein feeder didn't get wet or moldy it won't hurt the deer, but the nutritional value of it breaks down over time.

Heat and moisture are the enemies of protein pellets, but moisture is the worst.

Anything you guys can do to reduce the coyote population, or other predators (and you can include hogs in that) on your place will only be beneficial to your local herd by uping your survival rates.

As an aside, the 6 years mentioned in the original post is probably referring to the idea that usually a generation of deer is thought to be 3 years. That takes into account the idea that you let them walk until they are at least that old or older. It varies, depending on who you read and listen to, but bucks, for the most part, aren't considered mature (growth wise) until they are 4.5.

wouldnt doubt if numbers where right.. we found lots of dead deer thru out year... while scouting....

That number is huge! But I believe it. I know for sure on our place we have been seeing way fewer deer. I mean, used to, it was rare to not see a single deer in a sitting. Now, people are getting stumped quite often. But, our deer count came up right around the same as the previous years so I don't get it. Deer count same...seeing deer not the same.

Crowbar, between what the GW told you and what you've actually seen this year, it does sound like your numbers are down. Continue scouting after the season so you'll have a better idea what you have left.

If the numbers truly are down, do protect does with the exception of what we call "barren does". Does stop breeding after a few years and do nothing but suck up nutrients and are the first to blow when they spot you in your blind. Those big old does need to be taken out on a regular basis. Let the medium sized "prime" does walk. They'll provide your future trophies.

I agree you should be very careful about culling bucks, particularly if your area reverts back to drought conditions this spring and summer. Most bucks look like culls in poor years. You would do better by working to get your buck/doe ratio to more favorable numbers... it's easier to do when there are fewer deer overall.

I bet ya if it wasn't for us hunters the numbers would be a lot higher.

With that high of a die off, you would think that people would be finding dead deer wouldn't you?

His # is correct as most of the deer counts on the ranches in the brush country had half as many deer as last year. Ranch I hunted went from 180 permits last year to 110 this year and hardly any fawns seen. Antler growth way down.

Up in north Texas on my lease we had tons of rain and have quite a few deer and all does have fawns.

I noticed a sharp decline in the number of deer on my place this year. I am certain that it isn't due to any drought conditions. I have O.H.Ivie Reservoir on three sides of me (within less than a mile), my next door neighbor has a 3-4 acre pond on his place that is only a few hundred yards away, and I keep water at two troughs on my 60 acres. There is plenty of water for the deer to drink here, but the numbers sure did drop. I went from seeing 30-50 deer mornings and evenings to 10-15.

We are not only talking about water for them to drink. The drought has caused them to not have the food they need.

+1 No green food when it counts in the spring/summer!

What's weird at my place in Seguin is we had a lot of deer on game cameras all the way through September in into the begining of Oct. Then they just suddenly disappeared. We went from seeing deer every trip to hardly ever seeing any deer, even on camera.

even on well managed ranches horn size was down...but body weights stayed good....but the heat did kill alot of weak/young deer. we had no fawn crop to speak of in 2 years protien or no protien. supplemental feeding isn't a cure-all for lack of rain or extreeme heat

we hunted a ranch near three rivers and saw very few deer, only a few does and young bucks....deer number were WAY down, no supp. on this ranch either. I would say they all died

We had plenty of rain on our place in the Hill Country that is on the river and we had some of the better horns that we have had in years, but we lost some numbers somewhere and we have found no dead deer in the pastures to indicate any type of die-off.

My in-laws hunt south of Ozona. They haven't shot a doe on their place in 3 years. They went from seeing 10-12 does every hunt to 15 hunters hunting for a week and not seeing the first doe. They decided to stop shooting does then.

What was interesting is that the years they weren't seeing any does they actually killed better bucks.

This year they had a pretty good season with everyone killing a good mature buck and they saw more does this year than the previous 2 combined.