Black panthers in Texas? Expert debunks recent sighting

A wildlife expert has weighed in on an image purporting to show a big cat stalking the grounds near a home in Huntsville.




https://www.chron.com/life/wildlife/article/black-panther-texas-18561035.php

So not so much debunking on the part of the expert other than saying there is nothing from historic science to indicate this is a black panther and the tail doesn't look long enough. That is his whole argument and while not incorrect, he isn't really debunking anything other than saying the picture, by itself, doesn't meet level of detail necessary to make any sort of determination.

It's easy to debunk something that doesn't exist.

The expert has spoken.

I guess most everyone knows that except you. What a surprise. Here's something else for you to whine and cry about........ a chupacabra doesn't exist either.

I mean that one wasn't even tough. Besides the fact that no black mountain lions exist, that is an obvious feral cat.

Wow, I guess everything revolves around you.
Go brow beat your wife, she must be used to it.
My comment was about the expert referenced in the OP.
You're a condescending !#@*.

You've attacked me previously in other threads, and failed. If your original post was directed towards the OP, then I apologize. I've been married to the same wonderful gal for 38 years. How about you?

I am fairly certain Wytex isn't married to the same wonderful gal as you, for many reasons.

Well that escalated quickly.

Actually, it is a logical improbability, some would argue, impossibility, to prove something does not exist without omniscience. A lack of evidence is not proof of non-existence as a lack of evidence only proves a lack of evidence. One might say that there is no evidence to claim that they do exist, but similarly there is no evidence to support the claim that the don't exist.

With some regularity, scientists have made discoveries of things that previously that had no evidence of their existence, and yet they exist. That is possible because a lack of evidence doesn't substantiate a lack of existence. For example, a recent meteor find revealed 3 minerals never before known to exist in nature. We didn't know they existed, yet they do.

My understanding is 11% of jaguars are black and that is what we call black panthers.

The jaguar range extends up to the tip of Texas and the boarder of Arizona and recently into it.

The jaguar population in Mexico is increasing gradually. Just for my own knowledge why couldn't they migrate farther north into Texas?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_panther

https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2021/11/jaguar-population-is-increasing-in-mexico/

Dude. That was spot on.

Can’t prove the negative, but I think most of us have a pretty good idea.

They certainly could, Tbar, but what are the odds that they all slipped through South Texas unnoticed and were discovered by every single East Texan? Most importantly…..EAST Texas. Keep that in mind.

Yes, I think that is a stretch. I guess I was referring to Texas in general.

Yes about 10% will be melanistic but not in all areas. Melanism in jaguars typically only shows up in thick rain forest type habitat. It's believed to be an adaptation to help camouflage in the shadows. There has never been a melanistic jaguar documented in the northern Mexico population. The closest documented melanistic one was in Belize

Sure. That’s reasonable. I just find myself going back to the eastern part of our state since that’s where most of the sightings come from.

I hate to be the one. We definitely have black jaguars that range through Texas and New Mexico. So there are your “panthers”. They are real and i would not be suprised if there are actual panthers too.

Kind of like the mountain lions and red wolves in Missouri that don’t exist. Or the wolves of Wisconsin when they were extinct, supposedly. If they acknowledge it’s existence then it must be taken into consideration and managed, and government don’t care.

In East Texas? All through East Texas? Witnessed by just about every person in East Texas? Does that seem reasonable?

Here is your missouri red wolf. 104 pound coyote, right, sure. That’s a wolf or at least part.

https://www.thewildlifenews.com/2010/12/20/104-pound-coyote-shot-in-missouri/

Living there? No. Passing through? Absolutely. Some people telling 2nd or 3rd hand account as their own? Probably but where there is smoke there is fire.

Last Jaguar I believe killed in Texas was in 1903 if memory serves correctly. And it wasn’t black. Texas never had a resident population, just a transient one.

Odds are extremely high that at the time of this writing there isn’t a Jaguar on Texas soil.

There is no black Panther, people need to come to grips with that. He’s out playing footsie with Bigfoot.

There are black jaguars but they don’t exist here. There are no black leopards that swam over hear from Zimbabwe either.


With all the game cameras, video, thermal and aerial surveys do we every year, more people in the state than ever before, if it existed it would have turned up by now. It’s 2023 not 1973.

Actually, the last jaguar killed in Texas was in 1948, 3 miles SE of Kingsville TX. There are NO Black jaguars roaming in Texas or New Mexico. The nearest BLACK jaguars are in Belize over 1000 miles from the TX border. Don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. Tens of thousands of game cameras and millions of hunters and not one speck of true evidence shown by believers except, " I know what I seen!"

I just think we way, way underestimate how far a juvenile animal will range. They might cover thousands of miles before they settle into a home range. Canines too. It has been documented.

And i don’t believe for a second that a biologist or any government employee for that matter, was just so damn efficient and good at their jobs that they found and documented the sole ranging animal in a decade.

Personally i have found a ringtail cat and a enormous black racer far outside their respective range and living there, not ranging through.

Now you’re on to something. Smoke and fire. That’s what is really going on, I believe.

Yeah. A juvenile black jaguar slipped across South Texas, unnoticed, and made its way into East Texas to be seen by every single person living in that part of the state. That’s what happened. Makes sense to me. In fact, a bunch of them did that. Not any regular jaguars did that, since nobody sees them. Just the black ones have a penchant for East Texas. Oh yeah, let’s run with that idea.

Well, that one juvenile ranging 1000s of miles that is has been seen by 1000s of people not only all over the US and Canada, but England, France, Australia, you name it. Here in Texas, that animal has been seen by countless people over the last 50 years, but strangely nobody has ever gotten a definitive photograph and none of those hunters that see them while hunting have ever managed to kill one.

Yes, animals do move outside of their ranges and then when documented, the range maps get updated. However, this isn't an example of a single animal living somewhere in Texas outside of its range. This animal is at least as common as Big Foot, right?

Lmao. That's a big no

So you disagree with dna test

Just about as likely as a lazy, entitled, incompetent government employee would be able to observe and document the sole example of a species ranging through this year. It is what it is.

That is why i liken it to Missouri cougars and wolves. This year MDC was forced to acknowledge the cougars ranging through here. They spend more time here now that we have elk transplanted deep in the Ozarks. Of course they don’t “live” here. But we are talking about common sightings a good 8-10 hour drive from where they “live”.

I don’t mean to hurt nobody’s feelings and i am sorry if I offended anybody. But they range through North America and the government and it’s agents are too incompetent to track them.

For that matter there is a world record bass in Lake Fork and probably a world record non-typical whitetail in Missouri no doubt. But that doesn’t mean you’ll ever see it, it is one of one.


Edit- look up Warner Glenn and the Malpai Borderlands Group

No one is offended. We are laughing

Warner Glenn and the Malpai Borderlands Group. Yuck it up, lol

Offended? Not at all. To have your feelings hurt you must have feelings.

This is purely entertainment, for me. I enjoy these discussions. I also share your lack of trust in our government. It’s just that sometimes certain ideas don’t make a lick of sense. This is one of those ideas. I would put it in the same category as the earth being flat. It’s certainly possible. I can’t provide proof, one way or the other, but does it really make any sense?

Touché. I agree. I, too, am dead inside. A woman can do that to you. But I still have my sense of humour, without that I would be actually dead lol.

I am not saying I trust every meth addict nor graybeard storyteller in East Texas, and I know they have a lot of great stories that are not half true. But ranchers are stacking them up (jaguars) a hundred miles away from the border, and Warner Glenn has stated in no certain terms that they are a privately funded group of land owners that are not likely to put jaguars back in the spotlight. The mere existence of the Malpai Borderlands Group is all the promotion they need in these modern times. It is interesting to say the least.

If you're on Facebook you should join Texas black panthers and cougars: evidence and lore.
That group could really use your knowledge and expertise

I had my feeling taken out with my tonsils when I was 5.

You might have misunderstood, and i guess that is my fault. I don’t necessarily have interest in jaguars or panthers. But i do have interest in Warner Glenn and the Malpai Borderlands and that is the only reason i know anything about jaguars. And i know for a 100% fact the range and distribution of all species is broader than they have been documented in modern times. And plenty of money is thrown at protecting jaguars, which really is shrouded in secrecy and for damn good reason. So it’s not so hard to believe they range through east texas on rare occasions even though we know they are a bunch of tall tales in East Texas.

It is as likely as it is not.

I don’t think ranchers are “stacking them up “ as the species is not that populated along the Mexican border. Most of them live further south in the Yucatán

True. Not stacking them up like pigs in Texas but three dozen animals killed within 100 miles of the border, within a couple of years, is a lot more than a sighting or a tall tale. It’s real.

Yes sir, a woman can certainly do just that. On that, we do agree.

Twice in my life I have seen mountain lions in Hardin county, I have always heard of black panthers but I also heard of big foot but until I see one I tend to be very skeptical

Do you have a reference to cite that?

Out of the 3 dozen purported to be killed, how many where black?

There is a bear grease podcast series on Warner Glenn, if you like stories about the American west, gritty and tough people and cowboy stuff it is pretty good. And might open your mind to the possibility of jaguar sightings in East Texas and other unlikely wildlife sightings

I may have been mistaken on some of the details but i am not gonna go back and look it all up for ya’ll. But the Malpai Borderlands Group is real, it’s huge, it’s private, and it exist for the sole purpose of jaguar conservation. And it’s on the border. I learned about it from tge bear grease podcast and it is a great listen but you’re gonna have to look up the episodes for yourself. Check it out, or don’t. But it’s time for me to check out of this discussion

You made my night. I haven't laughed this much in awhile

Jaguars in east Texas…oh man.

Never before or since has one been sighted there but a cat man in a podcast says so, so we need to open our minds.

What is your take on reptilian humanoids living beneath the earth’s crust?

http://www.malpaiborderlandsgroup.org/?section=26

Over a million acres, fewer than 100 families. This is where they live.

More on Warner Glenn

http://malpaiborderlandsgroup.org/?...iew_article&id=14&subtheme=_none

You’ve piqued my interest. I’ll check it out.

I saw one twice between Graham and Bryson. The reason I think it was the same is because it was in the same spot while driving. I also saw one South of Graham while hunting. I was varmint hunting on the same place att night and we heard one scream while we were calling.

More than likely, it was more than one, even though the sighting occurred in the same spot. They’re just so common that the odds are against that sort of thing.

So obvious

I've never hunted any area of Texas where someone did not claim to having seen a panther.

Let’s not pretend that East Texas isn’t a hot spot.

I killed a coyote and the massive influx of other coyotes to fill the void has wiped out all my black panthers.

You were warned.

My comments do not apply to the referenced article and photo. It only applies to sightings in general.

As a trained professional with over 30 years of forestry and wildlife management experience, I believe anything is possible. Too many species have been discovered in the last 10 years that once were thought to be local myths or considered to be extinct. I also believe that since many of the people seeing things like black panthers are people with training in wildlife identification that those people count as more credible witnesses than the average person on the street.

If you take east Texas and western Louisiana there are countless schools whose mascots are panthers and cougars. Those were named by local folks many of who made their livings and survived off the land. They were familiar with the local wildlife and if they said they saw something I believe they saw something .

And as one of those government workers referenced in previous comments, from history I can say that often the government is involved in restocking efforts of species and those efforts are often not shared with the general public. The restocking program of the Louisiana black bear is a good example where the public was not informed early on in the program or at least the locations of the release.

Just my 2 cents
Big Hutch

name some of the species that have been discovered in the last 10 years? I'm not talking about invertebraes or lizards, what mammals have been discovered in the last 10 years that were thought to be local myths or considered extinct?

My kids graduated as Industrial cobras. Haven't seen any of those around Inez! High school mascots have very little to do with local fauna. Just ask the Hutto Hippos! Schools probably pick those names such as panthers or cougars because they are fierce animals just like the school football team wants to be!

I'm hoping this is a joke

Proof that people believe what they want to.

Here you go from a simple Google search: https://www.businessinsider.com/animal-species-discovered-in-last-decade-2019-12


I believe none of us are omniscient or omnipresent. We don’t know for 100% certainty what is out there.

Example, I have observed and hunted crows from the time I could shoot a Daisy Red Rider until today at 51 years old. Crows are crop depredators in our family pecan orchard and truck farm. We are sworn enemies. Back in late October I saw a piebald crow on the side of a road I frequently travel. The piebald crow was mixed in with 5 black crows feeding on an armadillo carcass. I noticed it from a good distance because my mind said what is a white bird like a cattle egret doing feeding with some crows. When I got close I was so shocked and amazed I almost ran off the road. Before I could go up the road and get turned around to take a picture another vehicle spooked them and they flew away.

Definitely not a black panther but have you ever seen a piebald crow?? If so kudos. If not does the fact that you haven’t seen one mean that piebald crows don’t exist?? Are there any pictures out there of piebald crows?? Etc.

I realize the example of the mascots is not a real argument for the existence of black panthers, but there is a reason those same areas don’t have a wolverine, moose, timber wolf, etc. for their mascot.

P. S. If my kids went to a school whose mascot was an industrial cobra I think I would lobby for a new mascot … in Texas maybe a rattler …


Big Hutch

So you think there were pirates running around Granbury or dragons around Southlake

The Unicorns must have run loose in New Braunfels. I wonder if the hippos in Hutto were originally from Africa? Would like to have seen one of the punchers in Mason. Never before realized how prevalent greyhounds must've been in Boerne. Stil don't understand the Judson Rockets.

There is a song about Werewolves of London.....you think he just came up with that off the top of his head?

I don’t care what your opinion is on odd wildlife sighting or even the cryptid nerds, either way I can agree to disagree. I don’t have enough interest even continue participating in the conversation. But I had to look.

I can’t get on board with anything the government does in secret. Especially releasing large predatory animals, with no consent or even notification to the local people and land owners nearby.

It does not sit well with me.

Did I miss something or did they keep a pretty good secret?

BigHutch Wrote:



Yes, many things are 'possible'. That point is not lost on us.

But I submit you can't go to your local barber shop and get 5-6 people to say they've seen a piebald crow (or know someone who has) like you can a Black Panther.

If these things were truly so damned common that literally THOUSANDS of people have seen one, then there must be quite a few in existence, right? The only other possibility is that there are only a few and those rascals really get around.

Your argument that some translucent, cave dwelling snail was recently discovered or a piebald crow witnessed just isn't a very strong argument for Black Panthers (Melanistic Mountain Lion).

To date.... there is NO empirical evidence for such....but MANY claims that folks have seen them. So how do you reconcile this?

BigHutch mentioned something about releasing bears in Louisiana in secret. Bears are cool but that just isn’t right. Would not surprise me, the government has worse secrets than that. Still pretty outrageous.

It’s no wonder they failed their audit 6 years in a row.

You have to laugh at the government sometimes. I worked with a gentleman who was born and raised, and spent his entire life in SE Idaho on the Snake River. About 20-25 years ago, Idaho Fish and Game started an aggressive program to expand hunting and eliminate most of the whitetails in the area. They claimed they must have migrated in all the way from Montana. Mr friend remembered them releasing them in the 60's, and had lots of pictures. He gave them to the newspaper and called them liars in an editorial. Lots of egg on some embarrassed big wigs in IDFG!!

Just another example of the government trying to justify it’s own existence.

Any proof to the claim that they were "restocking" bears in secret?

Like I said in my original post, it was the location of the releases that were not revealed. If you do some research you will find that is often the case especially when the releases involve threatened or endangered species.

Back in the mid to late 80s LDWF was actively restocking bears in what they determined were key areas usually females with cubs. Yes, there was some limited discussion about the restocking efforts but LDWF would not reveal the location of the efforts. Finally with enough persistent outcry by landowners and the public the general locations of the releases were shared with the public.

I know of a location where a female with two cubs was reintroduced and LDWF denied the release despite numerous reported sightings by local residents. In this case the sightings of local residents were confirmed but almost ten years after the fact. One of the residents was my Grandfather that saw the bears several times while tending his livestock. He reported each sighting and each time was told he was just an old man that was seeing things.

Just my 2 cents.

Ok, I didn't really expect anything but thought I would ask. I hear rumors like that all the time

If black jaguars are the explanation for all of the sightings, where are all the sightings of the 9x more common color variety?

No one has seen a black panther in Texas.


They either saw a mountain lion in the shadows and mistook it for a black cat or another black animal and misidentified it as a panther, or they are just flat out lying.

That’s kind of short-sighted. Most of the sightings are coming from East Texas. Think about that.

I won’t tell you what the other explanation is, but I will tell you that it’s methed up.

Most lie. Many hallucinate.

I would be interested in seeing the source(s) on this. If somebody had compiled a database, that would be cool!

^^^^^

Not that much to "Think about" really.

'East Texas'.....particularly Deep East Texas (behind the Pine Curtain) is a whole 'nother world in some respects.

Its been a good while since we had a laughable "Black Panther thread" thanks for the morning laugh folks.

Arizona Jaguar
https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/jaguar-trail-camera-arizona/

Yep. Jags show up in Arizona from time to time. Pretty cool and pretty well-known.

East Texans think that those pine woods hold mystical magical beings.

It’s actually one of the most populous areas of the state. Just cause it gets dark at 4:30 this time of year doesent means it’s the land of enchantment.


It just means people are afraid of the dark

I wouldn't want to spend the night alone on some land we used to own outside of San Augustine without some claymores.

Thank you for reminding so many of us what we have tried so hard to forget.

Hell, a couple of years ago, a Sasquatch was reported around Lake Texhoma.

https://seslibrary.asu.edu/sites/default/files/seslibrary/sources/146/Malapai%20Borderlands%20Conservation%20Plan%20%28Final%29%20-%20reduced.pdf

The link above that image will take you to the malpai borderlands conservation plan. This is from 2008. Jaguars for sure, for sure, have been documented in the US since the turn of the century.

But on the THF I guess the predominant consensus is no jaguars have roamed this land in over 50 years. I don’t know what to tell you.

I don’t think they range the malpai borderlands. I think there are some living there.

East Texas High School mascots…

Cheese and crackers. Here I was thinking that you were one of the reasonable ones, and now you go and do this. Because I like you, I will give a response. Really, though, you’re better than this.

First off, I don’t recall anyone denying the existence of jaguars in the southern U.S. Second, most of us know that they currently range in southern Arizona. At any rate, I haven’t seen anyone dispute that. Probably because it has little to no bearing on this conversation. Third, and most important, how many jaguars have been spotted in East Texas? If such a small portion of them are black, it stands to reason that many, many more sightings of regularly colored jaguars would happen. But that isn’t the case, is it? You’re an intelligent fella. You know why.

The game wardens refer to them as Labrador retriever sightings for a reason.

Mybad. I guess i haven’t followed the thread very closely. I sort of dismissed it altogether when a couple fellers started pulling dates from their imagination and claiming it was the last one documented, last one killed, etc..

But i checked back in when one feller posted something about secretly teansporting black bears to Louisiana, and here we are.

I can agree that East Texas sightings are probably 99% lies and hallucinations.

That’s better.

LOL it’s not the first time i had to eat crow on here

You’re good, amigo. I’m just messing with you. I meant it when I said you were smart.

A buddy of mine shared pictures of a black panther taken outside of Vashti, Texas this week. There are two very nice pics, look to be game camera images, but old style with white light flash. For some reason, it looks like somene cut off any identifying time stamps from the image. Odd, no?

So I google image search the images. Here are the results to the first image. Oddly enough, the first image of the black panther is the same proof used for black panther citings around the world and going back several years and it looks like the oldest listed is from India, where they have black panthers, go figure.

https://lens.google.com/search?ep=gisbubb&hl=en&re=df&p=AbrfA8qFAiDUL8GxRelNbFbP2Lo4x4oZqs0kiU-0K_42v0oeS-RrQesf4DicCpkVWg6GCxOr-YuSPClFw6BYvyhF_OTaH5Pmu5g90qDwtRY6eJ7PsRsx9O8btkxmf4INZYYmjIGEpxvLdeI_EzBFsa3RiqJdEDDWRl1sQcyXqXrIfG4unJ04e_AjW7vBt-Ev66cdtReBYpvLLQBBBA%3D%3D#lns=W251bGwsbnVsbCxudWxsLG51bGwsbnVsbCxudWxsLDEsIkVrY0tKREV6TnpjeU5EQTVMV0k0WkRjdE5EVTROQzFpT0RVMExUTmhNamN5WW1NMVpEVTRPUklmWXpWUFRVMXNNMmh2U2xsa1ZVTm1hVWxtYTFwaVJFSk9hSGwyYW5wb1p3PT0iLG51bGwsbnVsbCxbW251bGwsbnVsbCwiaXAtMSIsbnVsbCwyMV0sWyIxMGM0ZWMwNS1jMjI4LTQ5NzMtOGRjMC1lODBiNGNhOWE3MjYiXV0sbnVsbCxudWxsLG51bGwsW251bGwsbnVsbCxbbnVsbCxbMCwwLDEwMDAwMCwxMDAwMDBdXV1d

The second image is one already tagged as being faked back in 2013, LOL. https://www.ksla.com/story/24080309/ldwf-warns-of-panther-hoaxes-in-louisiana/

You see, you have to cut the time stamps off the photographs or people will realize you are hoaxing everyone else with outdated material.

100% lies and hallucinations.

If .001% of the population who claims to have seen one or know someone has seen one actually killed one, we would have dozens of specimens to study.

But here we are in 2024 and we have exactly the same number of Sasquatch’s, Yetis, Loch Ness Monsters and Black Panthers to poke and prod at.

No, a handful are mistaken identity. And my initial reaction was i would not be surprised. I also would not be surprised if jaguars ranged through some part of the state every single year and never got spotted by anyone. That doesn’t make east texas sightings “true”.

There is also probably plenty of sightings in other parts of the state. It’s funny when you look at range and distribution of a species and it just ends at the rio grande. Jaguars literally drag crocs and caiman out of rivers to eat, the rio grande is not exactly a geographical barrier to them. Maybe if they finished building the wall.

So no, I would not be surprised if someone spotted a “rare melanated jaguar”anywhere in the southeast part of the state, although i find it highly unlikely.

I never singled you out, either. But since you quoted me i am gonna call you on it. You posted outright made-up false information and compared me to a cryptid nut job to quantify what you posted. It’s not even what i posted, it’s because I posted it. And it says a lot.

Seize an opportunity to tear me down to build yourself up. Some people never change

I'm not singling you out or comparing you to a cryptid nut job. Your arguing a point that was based at least in fact that black jaguars do exist.

My argument is that one has never been spotted in the U.S, that melanistic cats range much further south towards central america. As many people live in the state ( upwards of 25 million now ) all the highways and backroads and game cameras and hunting blinds set up all over the woods, someone would have concrete proof of a black cat by now. But we have none. Same as Big Foot.


Now is it POSSIBLE? yes, its possible, as black jaguars do in fact exist. Black Mountain Lions do not. But I'm not singling you out or picking on you because you brought logic in your argument as A. black jaguars do exist and B. jaguars have been spotted and killed in the United States, just not any black ones

Mybad. I guess i haven’t followed the thread very closely. I sort of dismissed it altogether when a couple fellers started pulling dates from their imagination and claiming it was the last one documented, last one killed, etc..

But i checked back in when one feller posted something about secretly teansporting black bears to Louisiana, and here we are.

I can agree that East Texas sightings are probably 99% lies and hallucinations. [/quote]

100% lies and hallucinations.

If .001% of the population who claims to have seen one or know someone has seen one actually killed one, we would have dozens of specimens to study.

But here we are in 2024 and we have exactly the same number of Sasquatch’s, Yetis, Loch Ness Monsters and Black Panthers to poke and prod at.



[/quote]

No, a handful are mistaken identity. And my initial reaction was i would not be surprised. I also would not be surprised if jaguars ranged through some part of the state every single year and never got spotted by anyone. That doesn’t make east texas sightings “true”.

There is also probably plenty of sightings in other parts of the state. It’s funny when you look at range and distribution of a species and it just ends at the rio grande. Jaguars literally drag crocs and caiman out of rivers to eat, the rio grande is not exactly a geographical barrier to them. Maybe if they finished building the wall.

So no, I would not be surprised if someone spotted a “rare melanated jaguar”anywhere in the southeast part of the state, although i find it highly unlikely.

I never singled you out, either. But since you quoted me i am gonna call you on it. You posted outright made-up false information and compared me to a cryptid nut job to quantify what you posted. It’s not even what i posted, it’s because I posted it. And it says a lot.

Seize an opportunity to tear me down to build yourself up. Some people never change[/quote]
Stating facts is not pulling dates from someone's imagination. The last documented jaguar in Texas was killed in the 1940's. That's not opinion. It's just a fact. If you can find proof otherwise then post it. It's also a fact the closest documented melanistic jaguar was in Belize. There were claims of one in the northern Mexico population but it was disproven. There has never been a documented picture or carcass of a large black cat anywhere in the US. It's your choice to believe they exist if you want. You just can't dismiss fact as someone's imagination

Actually, there has indeed been one melanistic jaguar documented. Warner Glenn- a mountain lion hunter that, as far as I know, started the whole Malpai border lands conservation effort- admits to having seen one on Clay Newcomb’s podcast. His is the only credible sighting that I know of. But even Warner Glenn is skeptical of everyone that claims to have seen one. He has dedicated a good portion of his life to protecting the Malpai birder lands and is not too enthusiastic about people coming to find them either.

But how cool is that? I would love to meet and talk to somebody like Warner Glenn. 86 year old man and a real cowboy, still living that lifestyle.

Check this out

https://youtu.be/jXcUdJhkR_M?feature=shared

That’s not a documentation. That’s anecdotal evidence.


Bob Gimlin was on tv and radio shows too as having seen Bigfoot. Didn’t make it real. But at least they did have a video…

That is a good point but do you really doubt a guy like Warner Glenn? Bigfoot does not exist, in real life, anywhere in the world.

I’m not saying I doubt him, but even authorities on subjects have been prone to embellishments and exaggerations. I remember the sighting as a kid but before the podcast had never heard of Warner Glenn, and neither had the vast majority of the hunting world. Bring on a podcast does not automatically ensure credibility.

I don’t doubt the findings of the Sierra madre findings as holding a breeding population of jaguars but they is a remote and sparsely populated area. Nothing like the eastern 3/4’s of Texas. If jaguars need little human interaction to make it, they are not going to find they in most areas of the state. Also, the habit of the Sierra madras is nothing like southern Arizona or anywhere in Texas.

I could maybe see a Jaguar sighting on the river area of the trans pecos/big bend area, but it would be a transient cat and still a very, very unlikely scenario at present time.

Also, the best question to ask would be if any of thr dozen cats killed by the Mexican ranchers were black?

I'm one of the "fellers that started pulling dates from their imagination and claiming it was the last documented, last one killed, etc,". If you did some research instead of spouting off fairy tales you might find out that it is a fact that the last jaguar was killed in Texas in 1948 and that is a FACT.

The last jaguar was killed in Texas in 1948?

That is sort of how it went with wolves.

“Wolves are extinct”

“Still in Canada”

“Well they were extirpated and do not exist in the US. No such thing as bigfoot either haha”

“A biologist tagged some wolves that range in Wisconsin”

Same think for 80-100 pound coyotes that are killed every year in Missouri. No such thing as a coyote that big and no such thing as a red wolf either.

There are no jaguars in Texas like there are no mountain lions in Missouri.

Melanated jags in East Texas- i doubt it but it would not surprise me

Mybad. I guess i haven’t followed the thread very closely. I sort of dismissed it altogether when a couple fellers started pulling dates from their imagination and claiming it was the last one documented, last one killed, etc..

But i checked back in when one feller posted something about secretly teansporting black bears to Louisiana, and here we are.

I can agree that East Texas sightings are probably 99% lies and hallucinations. [/quote]

I'm one of the "fellers that started pulling dates from their imagination and claiming it was the last documented, last one killed, etc,". If you did some research instead of spouting off fairy tales you might find out that it is a fact that the last jaguar was killed in Texas in 1948 and that is a FACT. [/quote]

We have seen plenty of his type in the other group. Facts don't matter. He is going to believe whatever he wants

My type? Facts don't mean much to you either apparently. At least i tried to be civil. I never should have checked back in to this thread, you can have it

Actually facts mean everything to me. I don't deal in what people say they saw. Post facts that any large melanistic felines are in the US.

IDK......I had a 1969 XKE Roadster when I was in college. But admittedly....it wasn't 'black' (Primrose Yellow).

Probably should have kept it.

If jaguars are the explanation for 'black panthers,' then there are a truck-ton of jaguars in Texas.