Texas Hunting Forum

Increase in "Stag Bucks"

Posted By: WillowCity2506

Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/22/18 04:16 PM

We have hunted the same property in Willow City for 28 years. Have never shot a "stag" buck nor seen one on the property in that time. Last year I shot an 8 in full velvet, week after Thanksgiving. After learning this was a "stag" buck I brought him to taxidermist for a shoulder mount.

After season we were filling protein feeders in March. Spotted a 7 pt still in full velvet. Year moves forward and we make several more trips to lease, filling feeders, and general upkeep of camp. On our trips we noticed another 3-4 bucks with headgear in the spring, all full velvet.

Over the last 4-5 years we have noticed the buck to doe ratio really swing. We are seeing fewer and fewer does each year. (We only kill around 5-6 each year). If we had to guess on ratio from observation. 3:1 maybe even 4:1 in favor of bucks would be our guess. It seems I constantly see 10-12 bucks with only 3-4 does.

Could this be causing an increase in number of "stag bucks"? or could this genetic deficiency be carried by one of our does?

Looking for information on topic
Posted By: scottfromdallas

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/22/18 04:29 PM


Are you talking about an exotic like a red deer, sika or axis buck?
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/22/18 04:38 PM

He's talking about stag whitetail. Most likely on land with a lot of granite.
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/22/18 04:39 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: BayouGuy

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/22/18 05:00 PM

Well, that's a new one on me. scratch
Posted By: 5Redman8

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/22/18 05:19 PM

Someone with a tranquilizer gun cutting some young bucks?
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/22/18 07:05 PM

Interesting
Posted By: dogcatcher

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/22/18 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by BayouGuy
Well, that's a new one on me. scratch


X2
Posted By: Simple Searcher

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/23/18 12:02 AM

There is an area in Mason County where the bucks will not shed their velvet and I am told that they are sterile. Weird. And the area has a lot of granite.
It appears to be within the "study area" on the map that TexFlip posted
Posted By: 8pointdrop

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/23/18 12:27 PM

Was on a lease years ago that had a weird amount of stags. Probably 1 in 10 or 15 bucks was a stag. At one point we had 4 that traveled together. We shot several of them. Big bodied and fat with no rut smell, they yielded more and better meat than a doe and most normal bucks. Like a feeder steer we would let a few grow big then harvest them for the freezer.

On more than one occasion I’ve seen a normal buck turn stag without any obvious injury. One year he’d be a normal young six or eight point then next season he’d keep his velvet and never shed antlers again.
Posted By: 1860.colt

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/23/18 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by 5Redman8
Someone with a tranquilizer gun cutting some young bucks?

popcorn hmmm, stir or the protein feed ta improve the racks ? Steriods?
Interesting,
flag
Posted By: Bucks and Ducks

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/23/18 06:00 PM

We had them in Llano 2 years ago and shot a couple, havent seen any this year
Posted By: Cinch

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/23/18 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by BayouGuy
Well, that's a new one on me. scratch
Posted By: jmac24

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/25/18 02:14 PM

We are in Mason County about 25 miles out of Llano and we have seen at least 8-10 this year. Biologist even mentioned the spike moss.
Posted By: Gumbeaux

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/26/18 02:49 AM

I'm between LLano and Castell and same thing. Seen a few stags running around. Not near the ratios you're talking about but much more than normal.
Posted By: Triplesnake

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/26/18 04:44 PM

We are also in southern Llano County, not too far from Castell. Normally we see a few stags each year, and always try to shoot one because they taste so good. This year we've seen big uptick in the population. My son killed an 8 point and another hunter got a 6 point. We have cam pics of one that looks to be a high rack seven point, so high he almost looks like a reindeer, and I've seen many on the ranch that are big spikes or forks and look like young deer. Don't know why we have so many this year, but I'm not complaining.
Posted By: Mr T

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/26/18 09:15 PM

I've hunted Llano county for 20 years, we see several every year. I've heard about the SPikemoss also. I've also heard this is centered in and around Llano and Mason counties, with less occurrences farther away you get.
Here is one my son killed.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/28/18 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by WillowCity2506
We have hunted the same property in Willow City for 28 years. Have never shot a "stag" buck nor seen one on the property in that time. Last year I shot an 8 in full velvet, week after Thanksgiving. After learning this was a "stag" buck I brought him to taxidermist for a shoulder mount.

After season we were filling protein feeders in March. Spotted a 7 pt still in full velvet. Year moves forward and we make several more trips to lease, filling feeders, and general upkeep of camp. On our trips we noticed another 3-4 bucks with headgear in the spring, all full velvet.

Over the last 4-5 years we have noticed the buck to doe ratio really swing. We are seeing fewer and fewer does each year. (We only kill around 5-6 each year). If we had to guess on ratio from observation. 3:1 maybe even 4:1 in favor of bucks would be our guess. It seems I constantly see 10-12 bucks with only 3-4 does.

Could this be causing an increase in number of "stag bucks"? or could this genetic deficiency be carried by one of our does?

Looking for information on topic


I’m not far as a crow flies from you. We kill several stags a year. It’s a combo mineral/licen/moss ingestion according two the different GW and Biologists I’ve talked to. Not genetic. “IF” genetic, it would mostly be cared by the doe and normal buck dispersal ranges would apply.

We kill 3-7 year depending on what we have left tag wise. Meat is second to none from a venison perspective.

[Linked Image]


Posted By: Triplesnake

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/29/18 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
[

I’m not far as a crow flies from you. We kill several stags a year. It’s a combo mineral/licen/moss ingestion according two the different GW and Biologists I’ve talked to. Not genetic. “IF” genetic, it would mostly be cared by the doe and normal buck dispersal ranges would apply.

We kill 3-7 year depending on what we have left tag wise. Meat is second to none from a venison perspective.

[Linked Image]




From your discussions with the various GW and Biologists, if a buck becomes a stag, will it always be a stag?
Posted By: 1860.colt

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/29/18 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by WillowCity2506
We have hunted the same property in Willow City for 28 years. Have never shot a "stag" buck nor seen one on the property in that time. Last year I shot an 8 in full velvet, week after Thanksgiving. After learning this was a "stag" buck I brought him to taxidermist for a shoulder mount.

After season we were filling protein feeders in March. Spotted a 7 pt still in full velvet. Year moves forward and we make several more trips to lease, filling feeders, and general upkeep of camp. On our trips we noticed another 3-4 bucks with headgear in the spring, all full velvet.

Over the last 4-5 years we have noticed the buck to doe ratio really swing. We are seeing fewer and fewer does each year. (We only kill around 5-6 each year). If we had to guess on ratio from observation. 3:1 maybe even 4:1 in favor of bucks would be our guess. It seems I constantly see 10-12 bucks with only 3-4 does.

Could this be causing an increase in number of "stag bucks"? or could this genetic deficiency be carried by one of our does?

Looking for information on topic


I’m not far as a crow flies from you. We kill several stags a year. It’s a combo mineral/licen/moss ingestion according two the different GW and Biologists I’ve talked to. Not genetic. “IF” genetic, it would mostly be cared by the doe and normal buck dispersal ranges would apply.

We kill 3-7 year depending on what we have left tag wise. Meat is second to none from a venison perspective.

[Linked Image]



just my 2cents Thars alot of emphesess on Trophy (Big Racks) vs food for grillen & chillen. every one fasinated by the big racks. still ta find reciepy for antlers. Older a deer gets change in taste & tecture in the venison same as with livestock. Every year thar b some big bucks taken, have got several pic's on phone. years of out witting hunters. (cage) & good genetics will produce large racks. Here emphesis tis on food for pudding on grill while the veniison quality is second ta younger bucks The trophy tis it has servived. ta meet its potential rack. yet short time been back have seen differance in hunting.. Just down the road thars a deer farm, its has some huge Racks, Cant say for sure but tis thinken lots of protien, & emphesses on growing big Racks. Lots of none typical.. could b whats happening thar ? Deer are naturaly bowser. Ephases on Bigger Racks could play a roll. texas was complety differant type hunt than here. leasing food plots & corn feeders sitting outa ellaments in cosey stand . as pappy say's execative hunts. Me i work & pay for me foodstamps. & how i use it tis my busness.

would rather be hunten (fishen) than worken, but a wise person realizes by works one can afford ta hunt .

Pappy

flag
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/29/18 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Triplesnake
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
[

I’m not far as a crow flies from you. We kill several stags a year. It’s a combo mineral/licen/moss ingestion according two the different GW and Biologists I’ve talked to. Not genetic. “IF” genetic, it would mostly be cared by the doe and normal buck dispersal ranges would apply.

We kill 3-7 year depending on what we have left tag wise. Meat is second to none from a venison perspective.

[Linked Image]




From your discussions with the various GW and Biologists, if a buck becomes a stag, will it always be a stag?


From over 20 years of hunting that ranch I’d say depends on the degree and age, but usually a stag is a stag. It takes a certain level of testosterone for horns to harden. Certain level of testosterone to want to bred. I’ve killed stags with harden antler uptop and still soft bases, even those had no interest in rutting/breeding.

I will say the some of the oldest deer I have killed tend to be stags. I’ve killed several with zero teeth(and had followed them for several years), they are very none social and tend to be very low in the pecking order, so they can be pretty elusive at times.

I just can’t think of one that change out of it but I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. I would theorize that when a young deer damages its reproduction organs they are there on out compromised. If an older deer ate something that repressed test production then I would think one it stop introducing that chemical that represses then they would revert back to normal
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/29/18 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by colt.45
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by WillowCity2506
We have hunted the same property in Willow City for 28 years. Have never shot a "stag" buck nor seen one on the property in that time. Last year I shot an 8 in full velvet, week after Thanksgiving. After learning this was a "stag" buck I brought him to taxidermist for a shoulder mount.

After season we were filling protein feeders in March. Spotted a 7 pt still in full velvet. Year moves forward and we make several more trips to lease, filling feeders, and general upkeep of camp. On our trips we noticed another 3-4 bucks with headgear in the spring, all full velvet.

Over the last 4-5 years we have noticed the buck to doe ratio really swing. We are seeing fewer and fewer does each year. (We only kill around 5-6 each year). If we had to guess on ratio from observation. 3:1 maybe even 4:1 in favor of bucks would be our guess. It seems I constantly see 10-12 bucks with only 3-4 does.

Could this be causing an increase in number of "stag bucks"? or could this genetic deficiency be carried by one of our does?

Looking for information on topic


I’m not far as a crow flies from you. We kill several stags a year. It’s a combo mineral/licen/moss ingestion according two the different GW and Biologists I’ve talked to. Not genetic. “IF” genetic, it would mostly be cared by the doe and normal buck dispersal ranges would apply.

We kill 3-7 year depending on what we have left tag wise. Meat is second to none from a venison perspective.

[Linked Image]



just my 2cents Thars alot of emphesess on Trophy (Big Racks) vs food for grillen & chillen. every one fasinated by the big racks. still ta find reciepy for antlers. Older a deer gets change in taste & tecture in the venison same as with livestock. Every year thar b some big bucks taken, have got several pic's on phone. years of out witting hunters. (cage) & good genetics will produce large racks. Here emphesis tis on food for pudding on grill while the veniison quality is second ta younger bucks The trophy tis it has servived. ta meet its potential rack. yet short time been back have seen differance in hunting.. Just down the road thars a deer farm, its has some huge Racks, Cant say for sure but tis thinken lots of protien, & emphesses on growing big Racks. Lots of none typical.. could b whats happening thar ? Deer are naturaly bowser. Ephases on Bigger Racks could play a roll. texas was complety differant type hunt than here. leasing food plots & corn feeders sitting outa ellaments in cosey stand . as pappy say's execative hunts. Me i work & pay for me foodstamps. & how i use it tis my busness.

would rather be hunten (fishen) than worken, but a wise person realizes by works one can afford ta hunt .

Pappy

flag

Stag question mentioned by the op is in fact about long term hunting sustainability, not racks. He feels doe numbers have decreased. Big racks don’t pertain to this thread. It’s is against state law to waste meat. Most people would be hard pressed to decipher “age” of animal you are eating if you had no clue to it’s appearances. Most tastes are forge related and fat content. The fat layer on stag is impressive
Posted By: rickym

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/29/18 08:37 PM

Well I’d quit shooting does for a few years if you want to help your ratio.
Posted By: tlk

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/29/18 11:29 PM

Heard biologist Macy Ledbetter talk about it on a radio show last weekend - caused mostly by drought - testicles do not descend and deer produces estrogen - apparently a number of them reported this year so far
Posted By: Red Pill

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/29/18 11:45 PM

Steer deer.
Posted By: Gumbeaux

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 11/30/18 04:40 PM

From what I've heard and read, once a stag, always a stag.

We saw a few before season on camera and opening weekend. They have been scarce since.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Increase in "Stag Bucks" - 12/01/18 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by tlk
Heard biologist Macy Ledbetter talk about it on a radio show last weekend - caused mostly by drought - testicles do not descend and deer produces estrogen - apparently a number of them reported this year so far


Maybe in some places, but not Llano/Mason. Ranch as been in my buddies family since 1920. Pretty constant numbers of stags. Infact we have tried to shoot them out, to no avail. This year rain fall has been extremely constant, last buck taken 8.5 years old weight 187 scored 147 as a 9(he was over 150 as an 8pt last year), so from a hill country perspective not over populated under managed
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