Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing

This hog control method could have been the ruin of lot of Quail, Dove, and other game birds, etc. Lucky it was caught in early trails

Wow. They said it was safe. They said there was no way for other animals to get into the feeders.

That is no good, bad news and still no answer.

I knew it.

It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal.

Never a fan of using any kind of poison.

And few hogs were killed by it because they won't eat the stuff. What some of us already knew would happen and mentioned earlier. Hogs are perceptive to bad situations.

Dang. I was afraid of that.

Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows.

No real surprise. Was a bad idea from the start.

After working with this product and hogs more than a decade now, how did they NOT know that hogs were sloppy eaters?????

Mainly house sparrows and such were affected in this one limited test, but what happens when you move to different environmental areas?

They tallied nearly 200 bird kills, but you have to wonder how many dead birds were scavenged and not tallied. How many birds managed to fly beyond the immediate area and die?

"The initial goal was to have the sodium nitrite bait registered for use with the EPA by 2020-21."

A "few" bird deaths won't stop the current EPA Administrator from approving it.

Well it was within described tolerances so whats to worry about?

I'd rather get rid of hogs the old fashioned way, with lead poisoning.

200 over 14 sites. Being that invasive sparrow densities are extremely high it’s not that surprising.

I image thier studies areas are pretty big. Being that it killed those itty bitty birds that quickly, probably not to many fly away out of control area.

Interesting study, be cool to see the results and changes.

Bobo,

there are over 15 native species of sparrows regularly found in Texas.

English House Sparrows are rarely found in natural habitat.

So, the sparrows killed in this study most likely are the native species, not the introducted English House Sparrow.

The native sparrows play an important role in spreading native grass and plant seeds, and are important to protect.

Still, I am not buying it. This was the first actual field testing and it produced a significant negative result.

I notice that the article failed to state the number of hogs killed or methods of searching for dead birds. It says the birds were just found in the immediate feeder area.

This is also a rather disturbing statement.



In other words, the system isn't as hog-specific as it was designed to be.

If they are still using the same setup as they were a few months ago, it involves a process of teaching the hogs how to use the feeders and then pulling bait and switch on the hogs, literally, and then killing the educated hogs. Then the user is left with a feeder living hogs don't know how to use and the process must start anew.

Rarely? Seen them throughout the countryside. End of the day that’s 14 birds per site, that not what most would call an enviomental disaster, probably doesn’t even move the needle much as far as impact.
Like I said be interesting to see the tweeks and all the info once published.

Pointed articles with limited info on ongoing scientific studies really do both sides a disfavor. As seen in this thread already

Don't mess with mother nature. This is just to appease a few folks who complained the most to the ag comm. You going to bait the whole state... Lots of money made off of hogs as well. I can only see this effective in large crop areas but that is a ton of bait and maintenance constantly.

Don’t mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that

There is no effective solution at this time. Large crop areas are actually better suited for Aerial management practices. Gun/archery ground hunting is not effective that’s for sure.

I’d like to seen them completely removed from landscape,

The way they have to deliver the poison isn’t the answer, if you have to deliver it from a feeder then you can use a drop trap. Just a lazier way of doing it

I do want to see the studies run thier course. Findings will be interesting

Bobo,

can you differentiate the field marks for House Sparrows, Black-throated, Field, Clay-colored, Dickcissels, Harris' Sparrow, White-crowned, White-throated, and House Finches, to list just a few similar species?

House Sparrows are rarely found away from human structures and habitation, and very rarely in wildland areas typically inhabited by feral hogs.

14 birds per site over a short time frame is a major impact, if scaled up to a statewide level for years.

Imagine if it was 14 Bobwhite Quail killed per site in a matter of weeks, then multiple that across the state for years.

I can identify a few by name but not all. I can tell which ones aren’t male House/common sparrow
blk throat has a distinct blk throat and white lines on head
Harris’s just move blk throat over the head
Diskcissel is a mini horned lark with the yellow on head

House sparrows have been invading my tractor cab AC vents for years,

Define short time frame, 171 birds in a week, month, 5 months?? I may be wrong but I didn’t see where the article stated a time frame.

Why I hate pointed articles.

In Mississippi at the moment, the opine of the wildlife department hee on the hog poison



http://www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Chemical-Weapons.pdf

Bobo,

I am trying to track down a copy of the actual study.

Will post it if I obtain a copy.

That’s what I’m talking about

Thank you, look forward to a good interesting read.

Yep, the source documents always seem to have more information of importance and interest. You're welcome.

Stacking assumption on top of assumption on things not in the article or the study (at least from what we can see) doesn’t do anyone any favors either.

Assumptions about being “mainly house sparrows” or “invasive species” being dense at the bait sites or most of the birds being “itty-bitty” ones that die quickly so you will find them or the study probably not “moving the needle” re: environmental impacts, etc., etc., have come from you only.

It’s the information that counts. If the said 171 birds observed after day two, then shut the study down until they figured a better delivery method, 171 over 3 months. That’s 4 birds per month per site. Huge difference

I’m really looking forward to the Canadian Macaque CWD study to be fully released but appears it’s going to be a while still.

Lol, so you are offended that I suggested arbitrary examples to show that article was doing the same thing...

I’m not surprised.

This pointed articled is no different then you or flounder on a CWD thread trying to use the Canadian Macaque article to say CWD can jump to humans from ingesting CWD whitetail meat. Another Study that hasn’t been released yet so pulling what essentially equals arbitrary info from it to support you hypothesis.

Go sue a tree or something, but don’t troll me

Ahem! That would be some big hunting clubs down around Corpus.

I laughed when I read some states banned hog hunting to prevent the spread,

I’ll be damned if it isn’t working. Grant it they have a big pile of $$$ for government trapping and
Depredation programs. But non the less they aren’t jumping five counties away.

feral pigs have been around since the time of the early European settlers.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/nuisance/feral_hogs/


Early Spanish explorers probably were the first to introduce hogs in Texas over 300 years ago. As colonization increased, hog numbers subsequently increased. They provided an important source of cured meat and lard for settlers.

During the fight for Texas independence as people fled for safety into the United States or Mexico, many hogs escaped or were released. It was not until the mid 1800s when hostilities between the United States and Mexico ended that settlers once again began bringing livestock back into Texas. The livestock included hogs that ranged freely. Many escaped, contributing to the feral population.

In the 1930s, European wild hogs, "Russian boars," were first imported and introduced into Texas by ranchers and sportsmen for sport hunting. Most of these eventually escaped from game ranches and began free ranging and breeding with feral hogs. Because of this crossbreeding, there are very few, if any, true European hogs remaining in Texas.

Feral hogs are unprotected, exotic, non-game animals. Therefore, they may be taken by any means or methods at any time of year. There are no seasons or bag limits, however a hunting license and landowner permission are required to hunt them.

Missouri banned the hunting of Hogs on public land to try to curve the spread of hogs via release for hunting purposes(which why else would someone release them), so far thier efforts are working to contain the spread of hogs. NY banned it in its entirety, KS no sport hunting(only landowner), Minnesota it’s banned, Nevada it’s banned, ND banned, Utah it’s banned..

With a current population in excess of 1.5 million feral hogs that covers most of Texas, I’m pretty sure the horse has long ago left the barn on the “banning hunting to prevent more from being released” strategy here.

Where did I infer that? Point it out! Obviously you are only here to troll and not read.

thankfully some states have taken note about our failures with controlling the dispersal of feral Hogs. The still have the ability to stop the oops populations.

TAHC should of never approved the release even of barrows or transportation. Our biggest down fall has been private citizen releases across the Texas. It has escalated the expansion 5x fold.

Oklahoma is another perfect example of a failed plan to control hog dispersal via back of a truck. PH farms had what equates to as hundreds getting out of thier “hunting” area. Everyone of those hogs where trucked in and released. Now that population is moving in to KS.

I’m sure the hogs in the Lincoln National forest in NM flew there from outer space.

I’m sure these Hampshire pigs just migrated from STX into the hill country.......and stayed so pure....







I can tell you exactly where most the hogs around the city of Mason came from, I remember when they “got out” of a set of pens in late 80’s.


Only one way to stop the release of hogs.... take the incentive of hunting away


Oh and you map is wrong. There are hogs around and within 10 miles of DFW airport, and I hit one last Jan between plains and brownfield.

Bobo.... Really. That would open up a can of worms. Deer population out of control? No hunting. Where did all these exotics come from? Oops no hunting.

I could go for no transporting and releasing. But no hunting? No

Yes, it’s a silly proposition totally without logical basis here in TX. We are already “in the soup” and they breed like rabbits - literally.

If you think it’s a problem that might slow population growth in certain areas, ban the transport/release of hogs while maintaining all other current methods of eradication (including hunting).

It only works if you have limited numbers like MO or KS, by taking the incentive away they don’t randomly turn up in other areas. Obviously Texas is well past transportation or release restrictions since they are in every county now. If we had implemented a KS type policy in the 80’s, things would most likely be very different

Also You're comparing two different things. No deer/ungulate has 3 litters and up to 40 piglets year. You can actually control deer populations with tags/rifle. Doesn’t work with pigs well. But if you couldn’t hunt exotics would we have them in current numbers?

Hog occupying every county in Texas did not come from natural dispersal from the 1800’s and coastal Spaniards.

I agree with everything you said. But advocating no hunting for them in Texas as a way to control them is not a good argument. I'd still say no transporting and releasing could would help in some areas. But as you said the cat is out of the bag.

Im not advocating that, especially in TX. That’s NP inferring/making up crap again

MO is spending a lot of money to reduce current populations but according to them it’s working. In theory, You see hogs, you call they come trap entire sounder instead of the one or two offs you get with a rifle.

I like the KS approach the best. Only landowners can shoot them. Still have the ability to eliminate them outside of government trapping and no incentive to release.

Missouri banned the hunting of Hogs on public land to try to curve the spread of hogs via release for hunting purposes(which why else would someone release them), so far thier efforts are working to contain the spread of hogs. NY banned it in its entirety, KS no sport hunting(only landowner), Minnesota it’s banned, Nevada it’s banned, ND banned, Utah it’s banned..



were bouts in Minnesota be them thar wild hogs roman ? Born & raised thar. Back then farmers had hogs, we usedta ride grandpas hogs as kids. If hogs, cattle or other livestock got loose, people Helped out getting them back. Now its hog farms. Aint heard of NO hog hunten here. while in hunted hogs (the other wild game) every one complaining bout the hogs, yet was all bout the bucks, just like with deer leases. Seen the games played, & was BLESSED when a WMA opened up just down the road. The county was buck only when moved in 83, couldnt get doe tag, not enough deer. So as pappy says:
took me bow in hand & took a stand on WMA . & even when it went ta 4 deer county, still mostly hunted WMA. Said it before.



my posts get me on most peoples ignorance list.

my problem was the constant maintenance of the bahaya grass, mow it one day & watch it grow the next.
problem was: never could find any one who would pay me big bucks ta come cut it. had no problems with hogs, for en & chillen.

dang android. Needs update.

Your vid or pic not reponding NP.

Here’s the non-video version:

seriously how could anyone really think a poison would not be congested by other animals. I am 110 % against poisoning these animals.

I remember warnings on the cartons of clay(skeet)targets several decades ago that read: WARNING: TOXIC TO HOGS. I understand that there is no warning on the new targets. Maybe the biologist could look into this.
300 WBY is very toxic too.

I have almost been convinced that no one really wants to eradicate hogs.
Leasers get all excited when they find pigs on camera. Some even complain that they do not have pigs and ask how to attract them.
I have heard ranchers complain about them, when I offered to come shoot them they say “$300 a gun" or $200 a pig. Clearly, they are not that excited about killing them all.
Many on this forum are sponsored by optics and rifle companies for their efforts at videoing hog hunts for entertainment. Go to YouTube and search “pig hunt” and you get 2,460,000 hits. This is a billion-dollar business.
Hunters come from other states and pay huge amounts of money to hunt hogs here in Texas. Some pay huge dollars for helicopter hunts. We even had one whiner on here that claimed he spent all his savings for the once in a life time helicopter hunt. Outfitters use hogs as a calling card. Shoot and axis and get a free pig. Why only one pig? Because they do NOT want to eradicate them.

I think you are onto something SS.

They’re rats to me, but many seem to see them as a notch below Cape Buffalo. Seems like the young urban dwellers are especially enamored with them. I can see why - they are plentiful and easy to hunt so there’s almost always action.

It is a two-edged sword. I was making videos long before I got associated with any optics group. They are just fun, LOL.

Many landowners do complain about the hogs but also want to charge. It is because they know the johnny-come-lately isn't really there to help with any problems, but to come in more a mini-vacation and get back to the real world. Few folks actually hunt for the purpose of killing as many hogs as they can and do it with any regularity. That is a reality and the landowners know it. On top of that, they can offset much of their losses by having paying hunters, if they want to deal with such folks.

It is true that it is big business, no doubt about it. People love to hunt hogs and people hate the destruction they do. Most people who love to hunt them just can't spend much time doing it with any regularity.

FIFY

The other day, we had some folks drive up to our house. It’s about 1800 ft from the blacktop, and you can’t see it until you’re about 200 ft away . They were great folks, just offering to “help local landowners with their problems “. I told them about the mowing, fences, washouts ect. Haven’t seen them since........

Lots of folks really want help, and want them gone . Lots of guys offering help. But the guys offering help aren’t gonna sit there all night, and look at empty pastures till the sun comes up. They want to show up, shoot at pigs in under 5 min, then make a YouTube video of the hunt, and review whatever thermal/i2 they bought last week . Owners/producers know this . They charge accordingly. The pigs do way more damage than the $they generate. But it’s better than nothing .

The figures do damages to property are estimated, and exaggerated. I was bored and had ext agent/trapper out the other day. They estimated the damage to one of our dams to be 10k . It took me about 20 min and handful of Bermuda to fixit. But if I’d hired it done, the govt way, it would have cost 10k. They’re a pain in the a**. They tear stuff up, and leave. They’re not as bad as internet makes them sound. Some folks make $, some folks get to come out here and shoot them

Yep. Or the places we go and pay would just do real eradication. There are needs for what some of the guys do one here for crop fields but outside of that, they bring in extra money and are fun for the pig hunters. My buddy is paying the ranch $200 a day for their problem... they never get rid of the problem. And don't want too from what I see they make $4K a year. Another friend says the ground they root up creates a plowed area for deer forbes. I can't argue either side.

Personally, they are here to stay and fun to hunt and don't impact deer one bit. But can make a mess of someone's yard or crops. Deal with it and don't call the news for every problem you have. That means hunt them and stop complaining. They will leave. Sit back and do nothing is being lazy. Might mean sitting in a blind for days killing them or trapping.

Exactly!....Get off your butt and do something about it!
As said they are here to stay, and just whinning about it won't do darn thing.
If hogs are such a problem, let people have access to trap and hunt them, and the less you charge the faster the problem subsides.

Bobo,

here are some specifics received today by email:

Non-target bird species impacted:

White-crowned Sparrows (121)

Red-winged blackbirds (26)

Dark-eyed juncos (11)

Wild turkeys (4)

American crows (3)

Northern Cardinals (3)

Meadowlarks (2)

Brown-headed cowbird (1).

Also keep in mind, these are the carcasses recovered. Based on studies I am familiar with, dead bird carcasses only last a matter of hours before being consumed by other animals and essentially 100% are gone with 72 hours.

That’s not good, did they state a time line as in how long bait was out?

Thank you for posting, a lot better info.

No, do not have the time interval yet, but working on it.

White-crowned sparrows and Juncos are winter visitors, so obviously it was during the winter months.

The mixture of species in the spring and summer nesting season likely would be different to a degree.

Still, the mix killed surprised me, but all are birds that feed on seeds on the ground, among other things.

So, quail likely are in the mix if there are any left in the area, but disappear quickly once dead.

Turkeys are surprising, it’s big bird. So much for a little spill over...

Interesting, unfortunately it’s not showing much promise on either end of the spectrum.

The study was for five days with fourteen feeding stations in early March.

That puts a whole new context to it. 2.44 birds a day per station (found) that’s a lot

Glad they did it up here and not Aransas.

Did they say what the tweak/adjustment going forward would be?

It’s on hold for now.

That rate of unintended kill would be devastating if scaled up to the state level.