Tis a sad day......

Okay... Not sure how much this is related to "hunting" but, bear with it...

Pitchfork...Erathkid...

Suz and I have decided to sell our ranch.

Now, before we all go "noooo...!".. yes, I am doing that too, here are the reasons..and I need you guys to be my sounding board for logic because, I am sure, you all would have the same mindset.

1 - it is 5 hours away, easy....sometimes more when we have kids and lots of stops. That means that gas and food and what all costs at least $300 every time we go out there.

2 - We pay, with the loan payment, like $1500 a month just to won it. Now, that is a phone line, electricity, insurance, land, internet, whatever related to having it the way it is. AND.. it is almost all equity and paid off in like 12-ish years. So, not as bad as it sounds.. but.. wait for it..

3 - The PoA... full of jac..bad people that are pains in the rear. They leave us alone for about a year and a half then start rumors etc that cause an uproar till I smack them down and then all usually dies down for another year or so. Due to this, and the drama and whispers, so many good people we know out there and have met, no longer talk to us. We have a website where we used to get tons of conversations, helping each other out.. now, no traffic and the only people we talk to is about 4 owners. We have more friends out there, but we are the minority so, most stay low key.


Okay...

That being said.. reasons to keep:

1 - Serenity. Middle of freaking nowhere.. end of road...as long as we do not talk to the poa...deal with them.. they do not bother us except maybe every year and a half when they start more crap with us.. then it usually lasts a few months and all hell breaks loose.

2 - Exotics. TONS of things "TO" hunt....but, I get out there so seldom, I am usually fixing things and doing projects, hunting has gotten to be something I do to rest.

3 - Electricity.. the cabin.. lots of good memories there.

4 - 330 acres, we own it... well, us and our uncle....but, no-one to tell us what to do.

SO.. the deal is this:

We told our realtor that we would not ever sell unless we located something no more than 2 hours....not "from Austin" but from "our house"....i.e. when I have to go thru Austin, it adds an hour.

We will not pay 30k to add electricity...unless it is part of the deal and gets added as we buy.. i.e. we want the electricity.

We want at least a 1-2acreMINIMUM pond.. and not a mudhole.. (notice I did not say sh****lo?.. lol)..We took the kids out to a local pond, had to threaten them to stop fishing.. lol..

I want Pecan trees.. if it has those, then it has Oaks.. and not some mesquite covered scrub brush place.

At least 100 acres, prefer 250 or more, but I am realistic.

And we role every penny of our profit into the new place..... and if it has a house, great.. REAL one.. not some shanty a deer hunter glued together.. or.. we have one built like the barn we had done at the house.. heh.. so we bring all we had at the other cabin there.

So...am I crazy?

Oh, and an ag or wlm exemption not in Edwards County.. lol

I hate.. HATE to sell our place, and won't, unless we know for certain we can get the serenity we have there.....

But I want to get to my ranch more than 4-6 times a year.

Okay, besides, "you are nuts".. what would you all do?

Sorry for the long post.. I want to get a place I can hunt more.. I will bring exotics in if need be.. but I need to be able to get TO it more....but, if that place does not exist.. well, I am happy to hold what I have.

But, I think we can sell somewhere between 2300-2800 an acre.. and with that sort of cash.. we should be able to get something nice....

The guy down the road from ours just was told 110,000 dollars for HIM to get electricity. THAT.. adds value to us.

I hate that he cannot get it though

Russ

Only you can really answer that.
I think your answer is probably to sell though - you don’t think that long and hard on something you don’t really want to do.
Never heard of a POA on a 330 acre ranch, that’s a new one on me. Sorry for all the troubles.

Best of luck whatever you choose.

Probably sell.
2 hr drive is a good bench mark not to exceed.
But as you know, It will be hard to get all your wants , with in a 2 hours drive, for the amount you sell your current place.

Are you going to try and sell just your acres or are you going to try and sell both yours and your family members land at the same time?
$1800-$2150 per acre is about right but then you can add in value for any house/cabin you have.
PROPERTY LINK (link of a property in your area)
I would keep an eye out on Lands of Texas and have your realtor keep looking.

A mistake I made when I sold a ranch near Waco, was not having my new place lined up so I could transfer the profit from the old place into the purchase of the new.
You may want to check with your CPA so you save some taxes on the sale/profit of your current place if you coordinate it properly.

doogie is referring to a 1031 Exchange. Be sure to look into it.

Sell and buy closer. Yes you will loose a lot of hunting such as exotics, but the way I'm reading it, you don't get to hunt them very much anyway. And buy where there is no POA.
I made the same decision that you are trying to make now. I had a wonderful place only two hours from my house in Fort Worth. Then I moved to Texarkana, now I'm six hours away, one way. It broke my heart to sell it but now I have a new place one hour away. My wife and I are old...70 plus, but we still enjoy working on the property, putting in food plots, etc. So, we decided that this is just a new chapter in our life. By the way, I got everything that I wanted and 1/3 more land at only 2/3 the cost. So, I did not roll everything into the new place, I left a little for me to play with and to be able to use on the land as I see fit. Example, two brand new stands.
So, the question is: if you are only getting to go 5 times a year and having to fight with the POA, can you find a place that you will like just as much and get to be there more often and not have POA to deal with.....the answer is yes you can. It will just take a little time.I spent months on landsoftexas.com to find properties. You can put in requirements like house, minimum size, maximum price, etc. In fact I found all three that I have owned looking there without an agent. However, I did use an agent when buying the properties as that was no cost to me.
One of the new stands that I bought for the wife at our new property

We have a lake house in the hill country that we get to about once per year because it is 4.5 hours away from where we live. We bought a piece of property about 1.5 hours from our home and go there practically every weekend and love it. We're selling the lake house. When we go there - get off work on Friday take the 4.5 hour drive, get there in the dark, get everything open, Saturday - mow lawn, clean up yard and lot next to it that we own, drink a couple of beers, generally too tired to go fishing, Sunday - get up, clean house and head back home. I'd say find something closer that you can enjoy more often, but as someone said earlier - you've got to be the one to make that decision. Good luck.

Pretty simple in my opinion. If you can't use it often, sell it. It doesn't hold much value if you can't frequent it.

That sounds exactly like our 'weekends' at the lake place three hours away but we will try to hold on longer as it was mom and dad's place.

The time it takes to get there will mean a world of difference in what you can get done there. Late November, my Girlfirend's dad had a stroke while he was in the middle of a plumbing project(He's actually recovering nicely, but that's a different story), and he was obviously unable to finish. He had pipes dug up and exposed around the house, and the freeze was going to be setting in soon. Not good. If the ranch was 5 hours away, there would have not been much that could be done. Since it was only an hour and a half, I took off work one Wednesday, grabbed my brother in law, drove down and finished his project. Being that close means a whole hell of a lot. My cabin is 5 1/2 hours, and I'm lucky to get two work weekends a year. All the work has come out of hunting weekends.

No sir, you are not crazy at all. Sell it and find something closer to home. Everything happens for a reason. Dollars to donuts, bet y'all love the new place when you find it, just as much, if not more so then your current ranch.

Good luck!

I assume a POA is like a HOA, does a POA hold the same type of power as a HOA?

I went with you to your place quite a while back and that was before all the improvements. it is tough to sell a place like that, but like others have advised, it might be best in the long run. I used to have a small place in LaSalle County, but it was a 4 hour drive and hardly ever got to use it. So we sold it and used the proceeds to pay down the mortgage on the house. Best approach would be to assume you have a place and you are at retirement age. From that perspective, close makes a lot of sense. From north of Austin, you might look between Llano and San Angelo. True, the prices are higher but there's exotics etc. but a much shorter drive.

Thanks guys, appreciate the moral support. Not an easy thing to do... easy decision, hard to let it go even though we only had it 8 years heh.

BUT, we will build a nice place elsewhere we can enjoy more.

We will not sell till we have at least a couple places lined up. We are already looking at the 1031 exchange so we do not pay the taxes.


PoA is like HoA... and this one is so full of hate and anger...only thing that saved me was being right... still does not help. So.. no PoA/HoA is top of the list

Will let you all know how it works out.

It is an awesome ranch, surrounded by awesome people.. just a few minor back ends out there, but they are not close to me and cannot do anything... the real driving motive is the distance, flat and simple.

So... on the market it goes once we locate something closer:)

Thanks!

Russ

Nobody mentioned this, but if you have the mineral rights to the place, KEEP THEM! (You never know what they might find)

sell, have thought about finding something west of Austin, BUT such a pain to drive though, looking for something south and west.

as others have stated, if you can't enjoy spending time on the property, sell and find something closer, even if smaller. Cedar Creek as in west of Bastrop? Might be a tough deal to find something within 2 hours without going thru Austin, but maybe around it up towards Lampasas/Adamsville/Evant/Lometa ... unless you went south.

Imd59, which lake in the hill country???

You might want to look around Milano, Gause and Marlin. That area has good surface water ponds and nice trees.

Sound a lot like why many folks sell property, I think you're over thinking it, take your toys and find another sandbox, without a POA.
The memories of people, places & things remain in your mind long after they're gone, make new ones, I can almost guarantee they'll be better ones without the headache's & costs of lengthy travel and the PITA POA.

My wife and I bought 12 acres around Lake Fork less than a year ago. There are deed restrictions, but no POA/HOA. Just over the last few weeks there have been major blow ups and neighbors getting mad at each other over nothing. Now they are discussing forming a POA to inforce the deed restrictions. I told them if that happened we would be selling our property. I think it has calmed down, but we are still considering selling the property just because they have forming a POA in their minds....I'm not dealing with that BS.

We used to do the yard work, basic repairs and maintenance on our place in Ruidoso. It consumed a lot of our time while we were there. We found a guy that did odd jobs, was reasonable and did good work. Now we show up and the work is finished, yes it costs us money, but at our age, we can afford it, and it leaves us the free time to enjoy the place.

The 5 hour drive? Ours is 6 at a minimum but we have taken up to 7 hours or 10 hours sometimes. As long as the side road is going in the general direction it is not safe, we may just take it. We have been down roads that most people would not think of driving. How many people can say they have seen a stucco trailer house? We have.

You don't have to do a simultaneous closing to do a 1031. You can park the proceeds with a qualified intermediary and you will have 45 days to identify up to three properties and 180 days to close. Just don't touch the cash between transactions. If the new or old properties have personal property you will need to be careful. You will need to invest the cash plus the amount of the loan paid off at closing to defer 100% of the gain but you don't have to defer all of it. Good luck!

We're selling our property in the hill country. 1/2 of it Dad bought in '68. It's hard to do, but it's time to move on and the hill country around Fbg. ain't what it used to be.

'Glad to get away from some of the neighbors, but, unless you buy an island, you're always gonna have them. I try real hard to be "neighborly", but I try like hell to never talk to them because they always want something, like access, etc. 'Guess that's just human nature. One (a surgeon) thought we ought to let his bulldozer operator shape our land, basically because he put his house right on the fence line. (Long, winding drive to his place from the road - trying to make 50 acres look like 500.)

We're gonna let the "ego farmers" have that area.

Was at the Pitchfork with Marc. Im sure he will chime in once he gets hime tonight or tomorrow.

Russ, I'm with the guys. After having that land for 8 years, you've probably learned some things to make the next place better No POA (crazy) and shorter drive for starters.

I'd keep the eyes and mind open when looking a properties tho, one with the pond you like, may be worth getting a quote for electric if there is none, or you may find everything but the pond, but can you have one built on it? Doing some improvements are actually fun "to me", but in any case, this whole ordeal could be a huge lifetime positive.

Agreed all. The hard part is finding as close as I can get, but enough land to hunt.. plus the pond.

If we are, for instance, able to get 700k, after all said and done, for the ranch (this is NET)...and we locate a nice place for 500-600k, we can roll the rest into bringing in electricity, building a new cabin, adding septic etc.

The options are good, but it will be hard to downsize. I do love not seeing my neighbors heh

Thanks for all the input!

Will let you all know how it works out. Just have to see what we can feasibly sell for, per acre. We had an appraisal like.. 2014, for 2050 an acre, but prices have shot up like mad since then and people losing WLM exemptions, but we have ours, and electricity is just stupid priced down there. The guy less than 2 miles from me just got a quote for 110k to run it from me to him.

We have a lot going for us. The tax appraisal is like 2042, so should be able to get 2800 or so if we hold out.

Either way, we have a great place, and the people around us are good people.. poa leaves us alone and them, just hate "me" heh... so a great place for someone else :P

Russ

Sell to the POA for 3000k per Let them put their money where their mouth is sts..

Be willing to bet some would almost pay that to be rid of me.. heh.

Hell, I'd make the offer, they may not pony up, but they will spread the word as free advertising, never know either, they may pool their pennies together to expand.

I have to agree. We haven't been to our properties in Real county in years. Too far a drive. Our place in Erath is 2 hours from Dallas. Much more manageable. Things change. We'll help anyway we can. I know you didn't make this decision without a lot of thought. I'm sure Gonna miss the old place but, if you only get to enjoy it a few times a year, well, you know what you need to do. Now, having said that we need to get down there for some killin'

A sad day to see you selling. But a new adventure awaits. You are at the stage in life where you have to place value on your life minutes. Life minutes consumed with travel and arguing with neighbors is bad for your mental health and once they are spent they never return. Our memories will cherish those times we've had there and usher us forward to new ones.

Erath has a new mission now, he will be excited to help with your new search. Any help I can provide don't hesitate to ask my friend.

To me, the POA issue is the kicker. Once those relationships go bad, it's very tough to get back to feeling good about things.

If the drive bothers you, this is an opportunity to fix that, too. We've got a place 4 hours away, and I go all the time. I don't mind the drive. But I can work on the road, and I can work some from the ranch house. My schedule is reasonably flexible as long as I've got phone and internet hookup.

Yup.. not going to sell it just yet, have to go clean it up and get the stuff off there I do not want to sell.. bare minimum, grab pitures etc.. take my drone and do aerial videos heh.

Then, we will list it, I suspect, sometime next month and see what happens. Already had a few emails asking. Not sure how interested they were after we told them the price, but since they do not have electricity etc, they do not realize the cost it took to get there. I am sure we will get a lot of hits once it is on Landsoftexas

Until then, I would like to get a 2nd Axis....have not shot one since the year we got it and there are a ton of big ones left. Also would love to see that red stag :P

R

So, if you don't find/close on a place in 180 (or just decide you don't want a second place), does the intermediary just wire you the money and, I assume, issue a tax form (1099?) and you're responsible for paying the capital gains?

Good luck on your 2nd axis Mr. Russell. I'll be camping in the brush like Rambo right before we close on selling our place, getting as many axis as I can. But I doubt I can do better than my best a few years ago. Killed him wearing tshirt, shorts and deck shoes. (Them deck shoes are QUIET!)

Wow, Creek, that's a dandy.

That is a nice deer!

My mom dealt with the same POA situation at Sportsmans world at Possum Kingdom lake. When we bought the property, no one was out there. We'd go out there to camp and watch fireworks, or just spend the day on the lake. Over the years people moved in, built huge houses and then started to have a problem with us camping or hanging out on the covered deck we built. When the wild fire came through and leveled everything the community came together for a hot second, until two months later my mom and brother went to pile unburnt remnence of trees and such only to be greeted with a fine by the POA when they got home for not having the property cleaned "properly".

It made me sick the egos in that place. The final straw was when my mom, myself and a few of my friends went camping out there for the cliff diving event. Some "neighbor" trespassed on our property to tell my mom he was going to call the police on us for camping, and then had the nerve to tell us we better muzzle our dog so he doesn't get bit...while trespassing. The next morning while we were packing up camp he slow drove by taking photos of us out his car window.

We had that place for 25 years. I grew up out there. I told my mom to get the hell out of that place as fast as possible. It was hard and easy at the same time.

Yes. You take your money and pay the gain. The new tax law has some wrinkles, mostly when personal property is involved. Always run it by you tax professional to make sure.

+1

Wow, never even heard of a POA on a ranch. IMO that's part of the reason to get a ranch. So you don't have neighbors in your business. Sounds like that's a lesson you learned.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you get. I try to stay current on land prices even though I'm done buying.

These folks made it easy and painless for me a few years ago: https://texas1031exchange.com/

I too have never before heard of a POA on a ranch property. This would not be something I could stomach.

I think the ranch neighbors choked when they asked what I was selling the place for.

We are going to list it for like $2,650 an acre. I told them, I have an appraisal from June of 2014 that had us appraised at 2050 an acre. That was 6 months before prices out there started skyrocketting. The problem is.. there are so many people trying to dump their land... the prices are all over the board. The real issue that gives us an edge is, the low-baller deals are land without electricity or water.. and no ability to get either unless you spend a lot of money.

One guy just got an initial quote of $110,000 for electricity to run 9000 ft... that is initial. The final cost would be closer to like 175k....just to get electricity from our place to his.

Add in we have a solid WLM plan and a nice cabin....real sales last year showed land selling for between 1800-2700 an acre with laughable cabins...no offense to them..I meant laughable in i.e. it would be perfect for us hunters.. but not a family thing for most people that want a hilton vs a "cabin".

So, anyway, if it sells.. we will roll it over.. if not.. we will enjoy it till it does.. not a huge issue. Each year we hold it, we make money. Great place to be, not in need, not in want, just in making a financially better decision.

Thanks guys.

Mike and Mark, agreed, we need to get an axis and that dang red stag.

Russ

If you wouldn’t buy it for what you can sell it for, you should sell it.

I had to read this three times before I understood it...I'm old, ....but that is exactly what I have done twice before and hope to do one more time before I finally have the "last place," I'm ever going to buy.

A financially savvy friend taught me one that pertains to this.

"If your offer does not make you a little uncomfortable, then you need to increase the amount."

So are you going to sell just the 76.72 acres you own?
Or are you planning on selling the land your family member has also as one larger property?
If his property connects to your 76 acres, it may work, but if the properties are separated
then you may have a hard time selling at a premium price as one larger property.

Uh, I get that. It is all one contiguous property heh. This ain't my first rodeo.. lol. I get the entire aspect of how to sell it, I am mostly whining about having to sell it

I know it is the right move, and maybe we will not get the price we want, maybe we will get more... who knows, all I know is that there are comps for land sold in the past 6 months out there for about 1800-ish an acre with no exemption, no cabin, no water or electricity, some for a lot higher with cabins that are 'shanties' or however that is spelled. None of them have setups like we have and seclusion, so I think we can get the price we want if we hold out and then move into something a lot closer.

We will have to give up acreage, most definitely, the closer we get, the more we give up. The "PROS" to this is, the closer we get, the more stable the land valuations, i.e. out there, crazy spread of prices, closer, steady, but slower rise in prices.

BUT.. I think it is viable to get 100 good solid acres, maybe more if we push it to 2-2.5 hours drive, but I am okay with staying at 100-150 acres if it lands me somewhere nice, beautiful, peaceful, and with the rest we want. I would rather go small and love the place enough to retire there, than get a place I like, that is larger.

Thanks for ALL the input guys.. I really appreciate it. I listen to it all and it helps. Selling a ranch is not easy for us guys :P

R

If you do consider a 1031 exchange make sure you are comfortable with any potential IRS tax implications.

For example, generally you have to use all of the proceeds of the sale for the next purchase or you may have a taxable gain on the "boot." That is, you might have to pay long term capital gain taxes on any part you don't roll back in or if you get cash out at closing on your next purchase, etc. I am just mentioning this because you mentioned not wanting to use 100% of your sale proceeds for your next purchase.

Also make sure you are comfortable with any "personal use" restrictions on the old and new properties the IRS could look at when assessing taxability of gains from the sale. Also be comfortable with any potential future schedule E reporting requirements. The 1031 trust companies are just there to effectuate the transfer but it's not their job to guaranty the properties qualify now or in the future. Just be sure to consult your accountant so you don't get burned later by the IRS.

Not sure where I said I was not going to use all of it.. heh. We plan to roll every single penny back in. If the land is less than we made, we will roll that into improvements for the land as part of the purchase. We will not be taking anything out of the sale.

Now, if we flat out cannot locate anything and run out of time, we will just take the hit on the gains, pay off everythng we owe and be sitting pretty.

Bottom line is, win win situation for us no matter how it turns out.

Our decision, and it blows, is what is financially better for us, paying $1500 a month for land we do not get to go to except maybe 3-5 times a year, for 2-3 days each time, and then only really ME most of those times, or selling it, saving that cost per month, getting it closer, smaller, fishing pond for the kids, and seeing it a lot more.. OR.. selling it.. paying (call it 20%) taxes on the cash, paying everything we owe off except the house (the uncle would make a lot, but we would make at least 60-80k).. and having a lot of extra cash and equity each month and maybe finding something later?

It is the right financial decision. Love the ranch, but it is a good financial decision.

Russ

I was in your exact shoes 3 years ago John. Had a GREAT place south of Rocksprings only my main home was 6 hours on the Gulf Coast. It hurt, and tears filled my eyes, but I listed it and sold in quick time. Bought a small cattle ranch and built a great ranch cabin on it here on the Coast with all the fishing and hunting right out my back door.

I figured that for the cost of running and maintaining the Rockspring property I could easily purchase a exotic hunt off a outfitter and be money ahead. I have already tagged a monster nilgai and plus a super axis. I was fed up with the 6 hour drive definitely. Have great hunting here with just a Ranger ride through the pasture.
I think you are doing the right thing John. Good luck!

Thanks. I think the hardest part now will be getting "enough land"...i.e., how much is 'enough land'? That really depends on the land and layout etc. All I know is, giving up 330 acres, end of road, cannot see or hear a person unless they are coming to visit you specifically.

When you downsize, and we will surely end up downsizing to get closer....where is that fine line of close enough, but large enough?

Time will tell if we find that. The move is right, let's hope the next one gets there.

I have hunted 25 acres and been happy, but sure was nice hunting 330 heh.

Russ

Ha! I hear and have felt your pain. And to answer that question, truly, life will never be the same. But we as humans adjust & adapt to what's best for us. Yes, I now here neighbors dogs barking, road traffic, boats on the Gulf and more air planes overhead. I despise it....but realize this is reality and the world we live in.
But I am proud to say that I have taken 2 wallhanger bucks, have hogs in the back yard, and waterfowl on my ponds. Small game and predators cross the property daily and though I gave up the serenity of Edwards county everyday here is a adventure.
I promised myself a exotic hunt yearly and I'm doing just that and you should do also. Kinda curbs the hill country itch. Bought a nice boat for the Gulf and fishing rather than driving is back into my life. That 12 hour round trip is a bunch of water time!

There are many, many positives to owning close by property and yes, it will never be the same as Edwards county but will have characteristics positive on its own. I constantly catch myself checking the real estate listings in Rocksprings and dreaming. But I know the distance is not feasible and reality has me planted right here happy on the Gulf Coast. Might drive out there sometime just for a visit, and to remind myself how much I hated that 6 hour drive! Ha!!

I have the same problem as others here. I bought 133 acres of "junk" land about 35 years ago South of Bowie for $400 per acre. End of road and good for nothing but hunting. I've gotten a road through it, put in a 1.5 acre pond and had some cleared for wheat patches. Got a trailer house, shipping container, barn, etc. Then tractor, 4 wheelers. In other words, I have it all. But, I'm 75 yoa and figure it's time to sell. Haven't said anything about it though. Then, my 18 YOA Grandson was there the other day. He told me that he was looking forward to having a Kids and seeing them running around the place like he had done since he was in diapers. Now what? I could always use $400K. But I understand my Grandson and don't want to disappoint him.

Been reading this post looked up got deer all over me. Get closer to home so you can enjoy. I have done so and hunt all I want and have lots great memories plus still making new ones! Wish you well.

My opinion, but extra property and vehicles are purely luxury items. Theses ranches can easily get into the million dollar price point. While they have appreciated quite well, they eat a lot of money and should be a small enough percentage of your net worth.

If it’s too big, your life will start to revolve around the land, rather than the land serving you.

Somebody has to maintain all that or it reverts back to 'junk land' a lot faster than most folks think.
If your grandson has the gumption, interest & time you can teach him all he needs to know to care for the property just like you do. If his idea is just to let his future kids enjoy it without someone consistently doing all the hard work you put into it over the years, grandpa owes him a reality check.

I've seen it too many times to count, spend 10 - 20 years or a lifetime building up / improving a place
owner dies or reaches an age he can't keep it up, kids / family wants it kept for family use only no one has the time money most importantly knowledge on how to do so.
So the place goes downhill, not that many years go by & the place is in ruins compared to what it was like when grandpa was around.
Now it isn't worth near as much as it wouldve been as when grandpa had it in top shape.

Agree Rustler. I was raised on a horse and tractor. My Grandson, although a good kid, was raised on a video game.

If drive time is the killer for your peace of mind...sell. Just remember this, the reason you got the land in the first place was "the price was right" and it was in the boonies. Get closer to home, pay a LOT more for LESS land?? Who is to say you will not have to deal with more a..holes who paid a ton for their property and do not want anyone hunting/shooting around their farm/ranch?
Just askin...

You make the argument that will always be the number one reason to think long and hard about buying land rather than leasing.
So many on here have said, "that is why I bought my own land" which is great, but as long as there are people around it's a roll of the dice, and there will always be people you will have to deal with, both good and bad.

Well, good point, but let me clarify. Dealing with the PoA has been annoying, but I have always been able to handle them. I stay "in the right" and they are powerless. When they screw with me, I hit them hard, make it public, and "shot them down" with facts, law, and they leave me alone for a while.

While you are 110% right, I could end up with bad neighbors, the people "around" my ranch have always been friends because I kill them with kindness and being a good neighbor.

I am not worried about dealing with neighbors, especially when I can get out there more often and show them first hand how I treat them with respect.

See, I live in a HoA here at hoime. We come from 3 other homes that were also HoA. They ALL started off messing with me.. messing with me hard because I was new and I tried to be helpful, and in doing so, found where THEY did not follow the letter of the law and we ALL have to do so. My choice has always been to hold myself accountable, and by proxy, also those that were/are involved. Ignoring this makes me as guilty as them....and so that is where the crap starts.

Yes, I have people in my PoA that hate me....but they do so silently and behind the scenes as snakes usually do, and I can and do handle that.

So, not worried about neighbors.

The idea is this:

1 - Sell and get a property closer that I can enjoy with the family more. "I" do not mind where the ranch is, but the kids are old enough that I cannot just take them out of school...so they do not get to go as often, and they love fishing, no pond there.

2 - We bought the property because the price was right. The price is very much higher now than when we bought it. IF we get less than we want for offers, we will keep it. That is a good financial decision. We expect, since we can easily find land sales of around 1800-2100 for un-improved land in the area, selling for 2300-2700 is a good window, imo. The ranch, in total, has.. $425,000 invested in it. It probably is closer to $475,000 or more, but that is an easy number to guesstimate with. That makes it.. we will call it $1.450 an acre (I rounded up from 1439..for ease).

That is "break even" and a low guess.

Add in the closing costs and all that junk and "whittling us down on the price"...figure another 15% on top of that, we are at $546,000, or $16.55 an acre.

Now, that is "we break even" and not a great way or reason to sell... since the people around us paid almost that identical price for unimproved land that has zero chance of getting electricity or water and had no cabin OR a WLM/any exemption.

So...We will price the sale... and see what happens. If it sells, and I believe it will sell within that window, we sell and roll it into a new place closer to us. We take the chance. Who knows, we may decide to buy a few coastal rental proerties instead and make more money with it. The idea here being, while this is and has been a great investment both in time, money, and memories, but if I cannot get out there more than 3-5 times a year and my family gets out 1 or 2 with me, and my kids get to do very little out there as we are always hunting, then the real goal is to sell high, but a good deal if we locate one, closer, and enjoy it more often...

Option #3, we sell, pay the taxes on the cash, pay off everything we owe except the house, and bank the monthly boost of income and hunt whatever and whenever I want and let someone else worry about the wlm or such.. heh

Either way, any choice is a good one, and every choice has possible good or bad consequences, but we all roll the dice and hope our experience and abilities help us turn those bad ones back to good.

R

Are you expecting $546,000 for the 76 acres you own in Edwards County?

Lot 1 of Bobcat Hallow is 133 acres and asking price is $285k.
$285k is still a little high asking price

Yes and no.

We have 330 acres.

Lot 1 in Bobcat Hollow 1 in Bobcat Hollow section 1 is 133 acres. It has a high fence around it and is owned by a man from Mexico that has ravaged it with animals he brings in from auctions. They have been known to die of starvation on his ranch because they have cleared the entire ranch of forage.

We have seen dead buffalo out there and other animals.

It is a ...how did Trump say.. 51T3hole?.. with a cobbled together mobile home on it. He has lost his WLM, do not think he has power or water...and probably owes a lot in taxes...ok, he paid them up, but the taxes are just under 4k a year.

So, we have a nice cabin with electricity, bathroom, here are some pictures.

So, yes, I think we are asking a very good price.

Also.. I will add one of the 6 stands, 9 feeders, 12k gallon water storage, not including the 1500 gallon guzzler, barn, end of road vs his on the county road.

Now, the dates were off.. one of my friend's jacked with the cameras. I reset them all so will have pics next month, but this gives an idea of what we have. I guarantee that tract 1.. is going to have to be sold to someone that rips that fence down and waits for years before seeing it beautiful again.

We, on the other hand, have spent the past 8 years hauling junk out, cleaning it up, and improving the herd... he

So, yes, I think it is worth the price window we are looking at.

Ignore the dates... these were pulled from the cameras last October. The stand pictured, has 3 feeders, each in a different direction, and has a solar charger setup with light switches, one for a red light to allow you to see when dark, and one for a dual USB charger, so you can have a phone etc.. heh.. or charge batteries.

Ok. So you wanting to sell your 76 acres and then 250+ acres that someone else.owns for that price
That makes more sense then
But 330 acres at $545,000 comes out to $1652 per acre.
$1652 an acre is cheap. Something is not adding up.

I have a 200 mile drive rule. But honestly it doesn't cost me that much to make a 400 mile round trip with food and gas. I do it a couple times per month. I would have to have a plan before I did.

Doogie: Yea, sorry.. we own the 76.72 acres. Our uncle found out that we were buying the tract so bought the two next to us and then the one next to those when they sold it. We have "1 ranch" as that is how we treat it. He has been there once and has no emotional ties to it, just got it as an investment and does not care what we do with it.

R

Pearls of wisdom.

Sorry, got busy...

Doogie:

We are selling all the land at, I think it will be listed at like $2650 an acre, if we list it at all. We have had a lot of calls the past couple days asking.

Yes, it is priced high, but we have pulled a LOT of listings, seen a lot of comps in the area. Edwards county is .. a total and utter mess...and here is why:

The prices of places like ours drives the market. We have everything a person could want. This is truly "turn-key".. yet, right next to us is awesome land, many with a WLM. People like us sell and get a great price, so it sets a price. Then someone buys the land next to us (as an example) and goes, "I can get electricity or water" and find out the cost....25k to drill a well, another 30-50k to get electricity.

It costs a tremendous amount to get electricity and water where we are. We got very lucky. We are not wealthy by any means, but our uncle asked us to add it to his tract, and he would help pay to run it to ours. So, we split the cost of adding it.

MOST...do not get lucky. They get what my neighbors got, a letter with $110,000 on it to run it 9000 ft.

So, they try to sell... the guy behind us was trying to sell a few years before we bought in 2011. He finally sold in 2014. Why? Could not afford the improvements.

The guy in a couple other tracts in BH 2 has been trying to sell for years. He cannot get anyone to buy and he is listed below 1400 an are I think.

Most the folks around us that have bought in the past two years paid over 1500.

NOTHING in the county makes sense except for one thing. I have looked at sales of land that had cabins that were horrible... horrible, compared to ours, and sold for well over 2700 an acre.

I think putting us at 2650 an acre is a good deal for others as well as us.

R

Are you going to market leaving yourself some wiggle room or are you going to have to say to a prospective buyer, sorry, I won't take $2,600 an acre. Just something to think about so that you can make the decision now of what your reply will be instead of trying to make it while you are emotional. There is nothing wrong with not coming down. The last two places I sold, I did not come down a penny. I simply said, and not in a rude fashion at all "I'm sorry, but the property is worth X to me, if it is not worth that to you then please don't buy it and find a place that is. I want this to be a win-win situation." Both places the final buyer had come in with a low price but ended up paying full price. Just be prepared with your statement. Or do whatever the heck you want....its your land.

Oh yes, we will leave some wiggle room. Everyone likes to talk ya down a bit, hence why we were thinking listing at like 2699 an acre...better than "2700".. breaking the next k

That being said, we are like you. IF the price is right, then it is a good financial decision. If they cannot afford the price, then that is not my problem. We can hold onto the ranch till we die.. heh, we just would rather be closer.

I had a few "feelers". One said he was approved for a certain amount. I knew right there, this was not for him. Another wanted the tract between us. His thought was to get that tract, move all his stuff over. Run electricity across the road to it, then sell the other tract. I told him the ranch went as a whole. He says, "most people will pay a certain amount for the tract with the improvements and a certain amount for the other tracts."....trying to talk me down..

My answer to him was, "I do not care what folks do with the "tracts" after they own them, but this is one "ranch".. it is being sold as one "ranch" and they can buy it or not buy it, but we are not dividing it up.

Plain and simple, we have wiggle room, but we know what it is worth, not to us, but to anyone. Everyone, and I mean everyone around us wants what we have... end of road.. no-one drives down there unless they are coming to our ranch. Game Warden said he never knew the place existed, but saw lights one night. Electricity, in TWO places on the ranch. almost 14k gallons of water storage, a toilet.. lol...shower.. a/c.. peace and quiet, and granite counters :P

We love the ranch, and the person that buys it will too, but we are totally fine if it ends up not selling also.

R

Sounds like you have it figured out. Drive time was one of the biggest factors affecting when we got our place. When I bought my house I was able to do it in a way that kept me the same distance from work and put me 45 minutes closer to the ranch.

What is POA?

Property owners association

A co-op type program for wildlife exemptions is the main reason they are formed but also to enforce deed restrictions

Exactly. The original concept was an AG exemption and money from that plus dues helps maintain all the roads.

Now, the cows got kicked off, everyone switched to WLM, and so all they do is maintain roads. The current people doing so actually are doing a great job.

R

Good luck and sorry to hear about your situation-- A couple things I picked up on though --
1. /if the POA is that bad-- is it a known thing they are that difficult? If so it might make it tougher to sell-- might not -- but we recently bought in Kimble county and I specifically said I didn't want a POA because of stories I had heard about them
2. You mention that you have had a number of problems over the years with HOA's and POA's -- I dont know you, but is it possible you are part of the problem? Does drama just follow you?
'
As far as the drive-- I swore before we bought our place I wouldn't drive more than 3 hours-- now I drive 5 -- why did I fold on the drive time? Simple-- I found an app called Audible-- its books on tape. These books are anywhere between 5- 65 hours long. The whole family gets into them-- We have been listening to the Longmire series lately-- we all get into the story and it makes the miles fly by. I actually look forward to the drive so I can resume the book-- I dont like to drive either, so I am not one of those guys who looks forward to driving.
When we go to the ranch we hit play when we leave and pause when we stop--if the kids god to sleep we change over to the book my wife and I are listening to and resume when they wake up if we haven't arrived yet. That being said, my kids are older and it makes it much easier for me to go (plus we dont have crazy activities with them that keep us anchored to home every single weekend year round, we do have some but it generally just during the fall) . We dont always take the dogs either-- we have a neighbor girl who will for 10 bucks a day feed them when we are gone--
Heck my kids are old enough that we can leave them home as well youngest is 16 now.
When we bought the place I made the family commit to going once per month and it has worked great.I go more often, but we are building a house and barn rt now, so I need to be there more often.
I also found I like to drive at night-- it really cuts down on the traffic as well as the stops, since usually everyone falls asleep during the trip (well not me lol) and they wake up when we are close. Sure I am a little tired when I get there, but I can sleep when I am dead, and a short nap or letting the wife drive on the way back for a few hours solves this.
This is what works for us-- if you are truly torn then maybe try that-- if you are done however, then you are done.

On the power issue -- is this PEC? I spoke to a neighbor of mine here and he just recently had power run on his place and ran it 2.3 miles at a cost of 34k. 110k for 9000 feet sounds very high, to me-- perhaps its more difficult there-- we have hills and canyons as well so idk,
Not trying to be a pit stirrer and perhaps I read the post wrong-- just my .02

No drama follows Russ. More like just the opposite. I think neighbors jealousy is the culprit. Russ has everything you would want in a smaller ranch. The neighbors that don't have power are just envious.

Friends, you have very valid points. I am going to explain, and please take this as discussion, not as defensive.. I agree totally with you. I have to ask myself if "I" am the problem all the time and, yes.. it is me.

Let me explain why I say this. If someone tells me that if I move a gate 800 ft up the road, because I own both tracts on each side but the gate only covers one, they tell me that I am responsible for all the road repairs behind the gate after that.

I can either fight that ruling by the PoA board, or I can pay to have 1-2 miles of roads repairs myself.

Now, the gate was already there, and they were responsible for the roads before. All I did was move the gate 800 ft forward... same combination. Their reasoning was the road people could not be responsible for remembering the combinations to every gate, even though the combo did not change.

So, I fought it.

In doing so, I uncovered that one owner(and wife) had gotten a 1-mile long easement for electricity across their neighbor's place, and then charged everyone after them for access to that new line on their place. They were the President of the PoA at the time, and so.. in looking into it, I had to ask what was going on when the neighbor decided not to pay his dues when he found out.

So, am I the cause? You bet.

I do not put up with liars, thieves, and people that would tell me what to do when they have no legal authority, and I stand up to bullies when I see that 50 owners have been taken advantage of.

Last year, the PoA had a huge fight, instigated by me, when I discovered that after 8 years of voting, and years of reminding people, the same group of 4 people running the PoA had taken it upon themselves not to charge everyone the same PoA dues, some not being charged anything at all. We discovered that instead of letting us help them, they had accidentally dissolved the PoA, and had I not gotten involved and discovered it and walked down to the state office personally, there would be no PoA and thus no road repairs.

I proudly say I stand up to people like that and, while there are people that hate me with a passion out there, I do not care. I am working to get electricity to everyone out there, from my land, because it is the right thing to do. I bought 6 polaris tires, wheels and all, and leave them out there for all to use as needed, rather than driving a 4-5 hour round trip to replace it... and I give water out when needed.

I am drama incarnated.. lol..but, it is okay.

PoAs are not all bad, they get bad when good people do nothing.

So, if it sells, it sells. If it does not, I do not care.

We will see what we will see.

heh

And, again.. good points and very valid.