"The Evolution of a Hunter" - Thoughts?

I read a lot about the driving forces behind hunting, the philosophy of hunting, the ethics of hunting, etc. One mantra that is repeated so often it's almost universally accepted gospel is the "Evolution of a Hunter" or "The 5 Stages of a Hunter", to wit: that hunters progress through 5 various "stages" (shooter, limiting out, trophy, method, and "sportsman") over their lives. I have accepted it as fact without really thinking about it too much.

Upon reflection, I question it. I agree with the first 4 "stages" in general - but not necessarily the last one. The "sportsman" has supposedly "progessed" beyond the need/desire to kill an animal.

Let me explain further: I hear some guys talk about missing an opportunity at a great animal they really wanted to kill by saying it wasn't really important at the end of the day. Phrases like "Well, it was just a privilege to see him" or "The experience alone to be in his presence was worth it", etc., etc.
Also many say that trips/seasons where they don't take an animal are "just as successful as if they had taken a trophy", "the trophy is the experience", etc.
I have even said these things myself as recently as a month ago without much reflection. In fact, I have always felt a little "guilty" that, while I say these things, I don't really feel that way deep down. Trying to "wish" myself to the "sportsman" stage, as it were.

Here's the truth for me: If I miss an opportunity at a great animal or take a long hunting trip without taking an animal I am after - I am disappointed. Bummed. Depressed. Sure, I love and enjoy the outdoors, the country, the experience, the time with family - all of that. And I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. But I still burn with disappointment at some opportunities lost on big animals and trips that were a bust. Especially if some or all of the fault was mine.

I am a hunter. I am hunting. Since the dawn of time, the object of hunting is to kill the animal sought. Period. Otherwise, it's camping or a nature walk. (Caveat: I'm ecstatic if anyone in my family takes an animal even moreso than me. But that's another subject I think.)

So, I'm not sure stage 5 is really a stage of a "hunter" - but perhaps a stage of becoming less of a hunter and becoming something else - maybe even something more passive/less intense like simply a nature lover. In other words, maybe it's BS.

Or, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it really is the pinnacle of a hunter's evolution and I will just never reach it. IDK.

Any thoughts from you guys?

I think a lot of it boils down to some form of political correctness that people have conditioned themselves to think

It is a blessing to be able to experience the things we as hunters experience. But at the end of the day people don't want to admit to their selfishness of the desire to kill an animal

I'll admit it. I like to hunt and I like to kill whatever I'm pursuing. I get disappointed if I don't get my quarry

not seeing, not getting a shot, DOES not depress me in the least, always next time.

When I first started hunting all I wanted was a deer. Didn't matter if it was a buck or doe as long as it was a deer. A kill meant success to me back then.

Few years later it had to be a good buck or it wasn't a success.

About 12 years ago it became more about killing a mature buck and less about what was on their head for me. Out smarting a mature buck meant more to me than a nice rack on their head. I would pass on nicer young bucks just to kill a smaller mature buck.

This year I am at a cross roads. I have a buck on camera that is 14 years old and for our area he is a respectable deer. I have learned enough about him over the last 3 years that I really feel like I could put him on the ground this year if I wanted to. The problem is I aint sure I really want to. He is mature and he is a good buck, but my history with him is so deep I think I would feel bad about taking him down. I don't know what category that puts me in but that's where I am at with my hunting.

Its no longer about the kill, the rack, or how old a buck is for me anymore. There has to be something else but I haven't figured it out yet.

That doesn't bother me either - especially deer hunting. But missing an opportunity at an animal I am after or taking a specific trip and not taking an animal does. Maybe because in those cases there may not be a next time?

I still think about certain big deer I was after and either never saw hunting or flubbed an opportunity on. And certain trips I went a long way for and came home empty handed (most I even saw game but not the type animal I was looking for).

Anyway, just ruminating.

Maybe you are entering Stage 5. Here's the deeper question: if you don't desire to kill an animal anymore - are you still "hunting"? IDK. My Dad had quit killing deer when he was the age I am now.

Is that progression? Regression? Neither? Again, IDK. Probably just in the eye of the beholder and what makes each person happy.....

"I don't hunt to kill but kill to have hunted." Aldo Leopold

The true sportsman places greater value on the challenge than the reward. They are often completely content leaving the woods empty handed after having fully enjoyed the experience.

That's the mantra alright.
Maybe I'm not there yet.
But an indispensable part of hunting is killing. Hunting came from the need and desire to kill.

Let's try an analogy:
You love a woman. You desire her.
Is seeking her ultimately enough? Being in her presence? Enjoying her company?
Or is more necessary to truly fulfill one's desire?

Hmmm.....

I'm 65. I've killed deer every year consecutive since I was 22 or so, and a couple before then. I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't kill one at least, because I'm also a carnivore. I've been through all those early stages, probably have killed between 100-150. But I am truly at the stage of loving to stay in camp with a radio, sons in the blinds, meat on the fire, and a nice stool to sit on. My sweet spot these days.

The desire to kill an animal is still there, I have just gotten soft on killing certain animals.

I use to kill every hog I see but now days I let probably 30% of them walk away. Only certain ones appeal to me now days.

Same with Foxes. I use to kill every one I see. I probably have seen 50 in the last 8 years and haven't killed any of them.

Last year I climbed up in my tower stand and came face to face with a Ring Tail Cat. My first instinct was to grab my pistol off my hip and shoot him since I had never seen one in my life and it would make a cool mount. Instead I grabbed my IPhone and videoed it at a distance of less than 2'. It was as calm as it could be. Certainly not the man eater I hear about on these internet forums. LOL

I am sure I will kill a deer this year just like dang near every year for the last 20 years. I just aint sure what it is I am looking for to make me want to kill one anymore though. I honestly have more fun taking pictures and video and sharing it with other people that pulling the trigger. Unfortunately pictures and video don't taste good on the grill though.

Working on mldp properties I have killed 250+ deer in the past 10 years. At first I considered it hunting but then it slowly progressed into just killing and hitting the required numbers. The meat did not go to waste and I provided many families with meat that sure needed and appreciated it but my desire to deer hunt had faded. I still enjoyed hog hunting with my dogs, quail hunting and dove hunting with friends and family but last year I did not even go deer hunting instead I had others shoot deer and put that into my freezer. I enjoyed being a butcher and a cook but the desire to kill a deer had vanished.

Earlier this year a friend of mine gave me a bow and I have been practicing with it all summer. This year I have decided to only bow hunt. Also as part of this I have decided to not sit at any feeders but to instead hunt scrapes and trails. Antlers do not matter to me ( or so I like to believe) but instead will be focusing on just hunting mature bucks and does for the main reason of putting meat in the freezer for my family. Now I can't wait until Sunday to go out and put into use this new skill I have acquired.

I don't know where this puts me in the range of hunters and I don't really care. I am just happy the excitement is back. It's a part of my being I have really missed. I think a lot of these labels are politically correct ideas we put on ourselves in an attempt to make non hunters possibly think more of us and to possibly justify some of the bloodthirstiness we felt as younger men. I believe the fact is humans have differing levels of prey drive similar to what we see in different breeds of dogs and that the prey drive can fluctuate at different times of our lives. We are predators but our personalities are not static throughout our lives but different events and experiences change us and mold us throughout. Don't put too much thought into what others may say we need to experience to evolve into but instead focus on what truly makes you happy and the blood surge through your veins in excitement.

If you can go out into the brush and just sit and observe and enjoy nature that is great. I enjoy doing that and am lucky I work and live in an area where I can do that easily. But if you enjoy the thrill of the hunt, the chase, the shot and the reward of success or the bittersweetness of failure do not let anybody try to tell you that you must evolve past that. It may or may not happen. And if it does it needs to be on your terms.

I met an older gentleman many years ago that was a hunter like I had never seen. He was very well to do and had trophies of all the North American animals that you think of wanting a trophy from, and several of each. We crossed paths again about a year ago. He said "I just am not mad at the animals anymore." His desire to kill had changed with age and he was happy for someone else to do the killing, and just send some meat his way.
It may be that there is a stage after "sportsman" that you become satisfied with the road you have traveled and are happy to not go down that path anymore. You are still a hunter, it is just done through those that you have mentored along the way. Your children, grandchildren, and friends.
I am more that way every year. If there is a big deer to kill, I would be disappointed if I killed it. I would be elated to have my daughter or friend's kid hunt it.

I definitely want to make the kill and would be disappointed if I didn't. I love when friends and family get a kill, but that doesn't change my desire for the kill at all

Not wanting to kill deer anymore or not being as mad at them doesn't mean one does not enjoy hunting anymore it just means you don't want to hunt deer as much as you used to.

A few years ago I was very into dove hunting. I shot so many whitetail with a rifle from a blind it held very little excitement for me anymore, so I focused my energy on doves and had a blast. Then I started back up bowhunting again and I only dove hunted a few times the past two years...and I don't miss it.

Rifle hunting holds little appeal to me but I'm very much into hunting sheep and mule deer. I love chasing them.

I posted recently about my our new hunting property my wife and I purchased. I'm 63 years ol and have not hunted since 1994. I have a trophy white tail I killed in 1987. Most of the time I hunted for meat. I hunted with my sons and was there when they killed their first deer.

Now I have daughters-in-law, grandsons and a granddaughter. My old st grandson and his mother are taking their hunter safety courses to get their licenses.

I'm doing this so that I can pass along something of value for my family. Yes, my wife and I will hunt and harvest, but if I don't kill anything, as little my as my sons, their wives, and my grandchildren learn all that goes into hunting and respecting the gifts God gave us and make memories for me and my wife it will be worth the effort.

No question there are guys who see women in that exact way. Get one to join you in the sac, then on to the next one. Then there are others who are more relationship driven, who just enjoy the company of the opposite sex. If it leads up to something, that's even better. But if it doesn't, it beat the heck out of spending an evening alone.

In much the same way, I enjoy being in the woods. If I get lucky, all the better. If not, it's never time wasted.

I didn't say a single word about the "sack". I was actually thinking about a relationship and/or marriage.

So take your "holier than thou" act somewhere else.

That wasn't my intention. I just took a position and ran with it.

But if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that bitch up and wear it.

Whatever, Dan.

I don't mind nature watching, while waiting on something that I'm holding out for, but my patience wears thin at times.

I hunt certain deer and/or certain sized deer. I don't mind passing and don't kill one just to kill one anymore. Most seasons I don't. But I am focused on wanting to take a big deer every season.

And I sure don't like coming home from an out of state/country hunt empty handed.

I guess my point is I'm hunting, and, to me, hunting has the inherent goal of taking an animal that one seeks. And I kinda like it that way. The disappointments suck, but (as with all things in life) they make the successes all the more sweet.

Bottom line: I'm not sure I even want to move to "stage 5".

I guess hunters fall into the same categories as people involved in other sports


Some want trophies. Some are happy with participation awards

Nogales, people peak out at various stages and that's as far as they get. Others run the gamut and continue to evolve. For me it has evolved to conservation efforts that other sportsmen and game animals hopefully benefit from. I've put enough stuff on the ground, and had a heck of a time, but there is not much to prove to myself anymore. Now I get a bigger kick out of trying to put something back for the next generation. In that respect, Teddy Roosevelt was an inspiring sportsman.

As one guy put it, "I just don't hate them anymore."

I just want that one stud on the ground that completely defies the odds of its environment.

When I fail to kill an animal I'm after, I am disappointed. Always have been. I never bought into "it's all about being in the outdoors". Sure, being outdoors is awesome but I can sit on my deck next to my pool and be outdoors. I hunt to harvest and I hunt to always harvest the biggest animal on the property I am hunting. Indeed I love sitting in the outdoors, no traffic noise, fresh air, sound of nature, etc... but when the hunt or the season is over and I haven't been successful at my ultimate goal of harvesting the biggest animal on the property, I am bummed, but alas, there's always next year. Just save the "it's all about being in the outdoors" for T.V.

Question:


if you don't want to kill deer anymore or don't get the same thrill as you used to, is it because of some kind of remorse/respect for the animal or is it because it doesn't bring the same level as excitement as it once did, because you have done it so much?

I finally understand my Dad's point about feeding the household and keeping the spirit. My Dad took me hunting when I was very young. It wasn't as much about killing as it was about life lessons. Find what you want and be persistent until you get it. Ask yourself first how much time is it worth to you, what will you gain from it, are your reasons honorable, are your methods honorable. I remember him shining a light on a huge buck and saying there he is just for the taking how hungry are you? I guess it was at that point I understood why he struggled with finances but others struggled with conscience. We struggled but we weren't hungry and hunting was never a sport to us it was our way of life. It took years to see it like that. I now love it when someone gets a deer or even joins me in the stand. I don't think I really hunt anymore. I've become an opportunist. What stage is that? Here's another question. Why do I feel like shooting anything some years and am very patient other years? Boggles me.

Lots of the thoughts on this thread are covered in "Meditations on Hunting" by José Ortega y Gasset, translated from the Spanish many moons ago. Overly quoted to the point of being trite, but still a great book on the philosophy of modern hunting.

My dad said he didn't care about killing anything anymore, and then I watched him get excited when a good buck was spotted. Actions speak louder than words.

I still love hunting and hope I never get tired of it. Now the travel to some far away places is starting to lose its appeal big time, but a big part of that is just laziness. And at the lease, the lure of sitting by the fire in the early evening with a good single malt and cigar and watching everyone else come in is getting more and more tempting, but I ain't gonna have supper ready for everyone! I still want to be out there looking for that one no one thought existed on the place.

On a recent church men's retreat there was some hog hunting involved for the young ones and anyone who was interested. I wasn't interested, but, just to make conversation, asked a guy that was headed in to hit the sack (and that, I have to admit, I don't exactly "hit it off" with) if he was headed out to hunt hogs in the morning. A simple "no, I don't think so" would have sufficed. Instead he looked back at me, scoffed, paused for dramatic effect and said "I've hunted enough for a lifetime." I never want to be that guy.

I do all those things too. They are not mutually exclusive to still desiring to take a certain animal. I don't need to prove anything to myself as far as an animal's size is concerned, but some of my hunts are great experiences because of the physical and emotional challenges they present.

If memory serves, TR was hunting pretty hot and heavy after his presidency and late into his life. The months-long safari with Kermit was in 1909 I believe.

"What every man ultimately hunts for is himself."

Well for me, I've been blessed to have a lifetime of ample opportunity and achieved all the hunting goals I set out to. Most of them numerous times. Had a big time doing it. Improving habitat and herd dynamics or re-establishing populations of animals where there are no longer huntable populations is a bigger challenge. When you can accomplish something like that it is satisfying knowing you are putting something back, after all the years of taking stuff away. Hopefully, the generations that follow can have the same fun I have.

I've gotten to the point that I'm more of a deer watcher. Gave up leasing years ago and bought our own place. We're here all the time and enjoy watching them throughout the year. Got a nice comfortable blind, feeder pen and food plot and we still hunt but won't pull the trigger on any buck that's not fully mature. Haven't shot a buck in over 7 years and it doesn't bother me one little bit. Hogs on the other hand never get a pass. To each his own.

I have a need to get out, unwind and enjoy the outdoors to keep my sanity. Deer hunting, or really any type of hunting or fishing, gives me an excuse to do that. I often say that the best way to mess up a perfectly good deer hunt is to shoot something.

you should have asked for his autograph


I've hunted enough for a lifetime by a lot of peoples standards....my goal to hunt enough for 2 or 3 lifetimes

I think a lot of folks get stuck in Stage 2

it depends on the quarry. I dont expect to limit out on all tags issued by my license (though I have) and don't care if I get 1 buck or 3 or 4 turkeys or none at all.


however I go to the dove fields or the duck blinds expecting to shoot my limit. If I don't limit or get close then yes, i'm disappointed

No doubt. To complicate things even further, I think many are at different stages depending on their own experience with different types of hunting.

I am. I've deer hunted for 45 years. I won't shoot a middling or even a good buck anymore (shoot does for meat).
But a lot of sheep, elk, mule deer hunters won't shoot anything but a near record or record book animal. I won't ever get to that stage, because I won't ever do enough of that type of hunting to get me there.

When it comes to deer I seem to have skipped right over that stage. I have never been interested in filling all my deer tags even though I could have done so very easily. Usually one deer will last me all year. There have been maybe 2 or 3 years out of 20 that I killed more than one but it was usually because someone else wanted the meat.

For Doves and Ducks I will always try to fill a limit if I can. I haven't hunted either in years though.

For Turkey most years I wont shoot one. Every so often I will pop one though. Don't think I have ever shot more than one in a year though.

I think stage five is an excuse for being unsuccessful, or lazy.

I don't think that. I just think it's that many become less enamored with actually killing something and just enjoy other aspects of the outdoors.

I don't disparage that at all. I just think maybe it's not hunting anymore.

I like it all,setting up and maintaining feeders,pens and blinds. I enjoy watching any deer as well taking deer...I expect to get a deer or 3 and will put in the time to do it. I have taught my son and his son to hunt and do enjoy seeing them have success. I have had the pleasure of taking a buck that I could have taken in the past but decided to let him live in order to have a better buck the next year. I enjoy the outdoors and all the sights and sounds that come with it. I have hunted for many years and just can't see the time when I won't.

When I see posts like this - I tend to only read the OP and not everyone's replies, since this topic is highly personal. NP - I think your take is spot on in terms of progression of mentality. As far as whitetail hunting, I do still get excited if I see a nice buck, either on camera or in the woods. But most I enjoy just being outdoors and would consider myself a meat hunter. Wife and I love venison and eat it year round. As for other species, I still get very excited since I rarely get to hunt them. Am heading down to Camp Wood in early November with the opportunity to hunt trophy axis and auodad as well as management whitetail on a 10,000 acre ranch.

I don't get that much of a thrill out of deer hunting anymore. I think it's because I've slaughtered so many over a lifetime. I'd just as soon get camp drunk and do all of the cooking. I prefer to let some of the youngsters kill my deer for me because they enjoy it more than I do. I liked hunting big properties and never enjoyed sitting in a deer blind looking at a feeder. I still love to quail hunt and don't think anything will ever top that for me. If I had to pay to deer hunt I'd never shoot another one.

My grandfather was the same way and would kill all of his deer opening weekend to get it out of the way so we could put them in the freezer and consentrate on the quail.

I'm certainly in the method stage. I still love my guns, but I find myself more and more leaving them at home in favor of my archery gear. There is just something so primal about hiking deep into the woods with a stick and a string and bringing out meat. I'm just glad I don't need to rely on that skill to eat though. I'd be eating a lot of berries, mushrooms, and treebark.

As far as moving to the last stage, I guess my dad is there but it's tough to even get him in the woods anymore. He seems content to just look at old photos and remember hunts past.

I just woke up one day and wasn't mad at the Deer (or Elk) anymore. We lost our lease, a couple of years back but the 2 or 3 years before we (myself & Mrs HNF) found that we were shooting less & less. We still shot a doe every now & then and put it in the freezer but most of our time was spent sitting and watching Mother Nature in all her glory. After moving everything off the lease, I didn't even have withdrawal symptoms. I've had people offer 0 dollar doe hunts, but haven't gone. I think maybe the wife & I are solidly in stage 5........

There are several ways to view the Method Stage. Perhaps the way most folks view it is towards the tool used to take wild game. But I feel it's safe to include tactics in the mix, such as whether or not to use purposely placed food sources, or using animals to pursue wild game. IMO, this is the area that causes the greatest division within the hunting community when one group sees their methods as somehow making them superior to others, or giving them restricted access to the greater outdoors. The division has clearly led to the near extinction of some hunting methods that were once cherished by outdoorsmen. Fox Hunting is a good example.

It's not enough that we have the anti's working to eliminate hunting and hunting methods. We've done a good job of it ourselves. If the decision were mine, there would be one season for each game animal. Take your choice of rifle, bow, or any other tool that's legal and sufficient for the task and share the outdoors and resource equally with your peers.

Yeah, well OK. We know you like to work your feelings about that into every thread. But start your own thread if you want to talk about that divisive subject (all the while claiming divison is killing hunting). This one is mine. And that is not the subject of it.

There's an easy solution for that. Just stop following my every word.

More is absolutely necessary!

These stages definitely give us some generalities, but I think they vary by animal for any particular person, and I think they overlap. I also think you can work your way backwards on occasion.

I've been shooting deer over 30 years and am probably at the trophy stage. I shoot a buck about every 5 years - only if he's going on the wall. But I never was in the limiting out stage with deer. Only killed 1-2 per year to eat. Putting my kids on deer has now taken the place of me shooting a deer or 2 every year. Maybe hunting with kids is similar to "method?" Or maybe even "sportsman?" And, if I don't shoot one deer, I still get twitchy. Hogs and turkey better look out.

For birds, I'm still at the limit stage and expect I'll stay there. Maybe a mix of method (e.g. I prefer an old school mourning dove tank shoot to shooting at white wings flying high and straight and pointing full chokes and #6s at them). But I'll whack birds all day for the fun of it. I'm not sure if that will ever go away. Same with fish.

There is an evolution for most and is unique to them. I've experienced it myself.

I still have the want to kill. I think all the hogs I kill help me with this want and actually subdues my desire to kill deer. But when I see a mature buck my urge to kill is very strong.

Perhaps my final stage will be when and if this feeling ever goes away.

That's where I am. I don't think I really want it to go away. Ever.

I feel confident saying that I have experienced the stages of shooter, limiting out, trophy and method. Right now I am in method and have been there for awhile. I can barely make myself go sit in a box blind anymore. It just doesn't do it for me anymore. I do enjoy the outdoors and animals very much and at times asked myself if I should leave the gun at home and just take my camera. Maybe I am knocking on "sportmans" door.

I can't afford to be a "sportsman".

Being geared to success, we all want to make a kill. It may not be that we need to make a kill each and every trip, but by the end of the year, the success or kill factor keeps us all going back. I always, for the last 50 years, have had an opportunity to kill a buck, but as the opportunities go up, the want or need to find a bigger and better buck always kicked in. I have become accustomed to accepting the fact that success is not inevitable on each trip. If it were, the hunting skill would be diminished and the shooting skill would be all that was necessary. I think it is in some people's nature to hunt and if some hunters can become satisfied by their kill being a picture on the wall that they were able to take, more power to them. As we get older and get closer to our own demise, I think priorities change simply because we understand that every living creature has a time clock ticking in their bodies and no one knows when that living creature's time is up. Hopefully most of us graduate past the kill just to kill stage. Refinement of a skill, hunting, if you want to call it that has been diminished by the H.E.Bs and the Lowes and all other grocery stores that furnish us with our meals at a price. It is just that some of us are able to overcome this process and want to furnish food to our families on a limited basis by hunting. Nothing that should have to be explained to anyone any more than the desire to become more skilled at your job so that you can make more money.

I will always hunt. It is just that somedays, I am not 100% sure of what I am hunting. AM I hunting success, am I hunting deer, am I hunting the adventure. These are difficult questions and if it were cut and dried, the world would be a worse place. Hunting and not actually knowing what we are hunting can be confusing, but for the most part, all phases of life blur in and out of focus. If all the answers were relatively easy, wouldn't the world be a much more easy place to live. Life wasn't meant to be easy.

I killed my first whitetail buck hunting by myself at age seven and I turned 64 in March. I cannot tell you how many deer that I have killed or how many I have rattled up and seen killed by one of my clients in the days that I was outfitting. I have hunted and guided for elk, mule deer, turkeys and predators. I must admit that I am not as blood thirsty as I once was but I still like to go to hunting camp in deer season and look for a mature deer that I might or might not shoot.
I still love to call coyotes as do most of the old buddies that grew up as I did and have killed their share of deer, most in the name of management. It seems that predator hunting is where many mature hunters migrate. As I have said before, I could give it all up and hunt nothing but lions with hounds if I were located a little further northwest. Chasing lions with dogs that you have raised is something that will get in your blood.
Adios,
Gary

I believe there is some genetic component to our desire to be afield. When I was a young boy and my dad took me small game hunting I couldn't sleep the night before and / or I dreamed about killing animal after animal. As I got older and started deer hunting I would be in the woods every chance I had and traveled all over my region to hunt. I felt great pressure to kill something any thing. It was an intense personal challenge. After 50 years and harvesting about 50 deer I am a changed man. I no longer need to kill and in fact Like KCTexas bought my own place so I can be afield anytime all the time. I love managing my place, teaching my grandsons and grand daughters about the outdoors and every day sitting in my stands and watching those wonderful animals. I've only killed 3 animals in the 6 years I have my place even though I have seen hundreds of legal animals. I am interested in shooting trophies but will keep meat in the freezer. I love the outdoors and as Said by the Spanish Author "I kill to hunt I do not hunt to kill"

I must have missed the post about your new place. Congratulations. Your family is really going to love it. You might check into putting it in a family trust.

After years of hunting up north in the country, I am just happy not having some moron trampling through the area where I am hunting and thinking that he is going to sneak up on a deer while crunching leaves on the ground everywhere! So now just getting out on my buddies land where I hunt is a great time whether I see some deer or not. I switched to hunting with my take-down recurve for over 10 years so getting anything with it was an awesome feeling. Whether it was a rabbit, Canadian goose or a deer. I like getting meat in the freezer just like everybody else, but being able to hunt from a blind now, not get noticed by deer and be able to see them close up is an enjoyment.

I mostly agree with the 5 stages thing being the path for a lot of people who stay in it long enough.
But I think it's more basic than any of that. It's in our genetics. We were created to have dominion over all the animals and all the fishes.

Since then, we have evolved from hiding in trees at night to being the very top predator at the tip top of the food chain - provided we keep our wits about us. Humans are a unique species in that regard. no matter how you want to slice it up.

Saying this respectfully as imo. Others are entitled to their's of course as always.

Wow. Jcb. 14 year old buck. Don’t see many of them

When I first started hunting, I was focused on the kill. Now days, I want my kids and guests to get that same experience. If I can break away on my own and hunt, I do it, but it comes second.

I started hunting at age 43 and have evolved to killing mature bucks, cull bucks and does. We simply have too many deer on the ranch to just hunt does. Out of 25 hunters and 7,300 acres there were 38 does in the book. The ranch manager is asking some of the trophy hunters to kill does this year. As far as the stages I think that it is a framework, but it boils down to what drives a hunter. I know men that have hunted 50 years and still hunt hard.

I think some people just don't like a label put on them because they perceive a negative connotation in one way or another with that label, so they turn the label that does not "fit" them or their belief into a negative to make themselves feel better.

The stages are simply a generalization of the general hunting population, there isn't a right or wrong way to do it. Hunting is what it is to you on a personal level.

For the most part, I have gone through each stage and at times, back to a stage and then I skipped a few stages back forward.

I have gone on hunts that I honestly didn't feel bad or upset that I didn't kill anything and been on other hunts that I was severely deflated I didn't kill anything. Wonder what stage that fits into?

I went on an elk hunt this year and didn't kill anything, but honestly, the experience alone was enough. It was a hunt that I have been dreaming of taking since I was 7 years old and I finally got to take it. With no guilt, I can say that I wasn't upset at all about not killing anything and the experience was enough. Does that put me in the last category, the "pinnacle" of a hunter...well no. That specific trip was for a different purpose.

On my first trip to a new mule deer lease, I spotted a good mule deer within an hour of being on the ranch. Being the one that spotted it, I had first rights. I gave the guy with me the option and then we called another guy to see if he wanted it. I knew if I stalked it, I would have shot it and I went to hunt, not just shoot. Wouldn't have been wrong if someone did shoot it, just not what I wanted to do. I ended up killing that same deer 4 days later.

Problem with labels and perception and caring what other people do or how they do it, is that people get offended and then attack someone else's method or ideals to make themselves feel better.

As I took great pains to point out, this thread is not about how anyone else should feel or what anyone else should do, because all of this is personal/unique to each individual. There is no judgment in this thread. So if anyone is implying otherwise, they are off base.

The point was not about what "stage" one is in or whether any one "stage" is better than another.

(Maybe I should mention I've shot exactly 4 bucks off my place in 14 years. Passed a lot of animals, taken many trips where that meant coming up empty. That's fine. That's hunting. I'm not bloodthirsty, but I am always hunting.)

Really, the only point was: if one is no longer seeking to kill an animal, is one really "hunting"? (Not that it is even a bad thing, just food for discussion.)

Someone's "methods" doesn't have anything to do with this thread. As I pointed out strongly to the only one who tried to turn it into that.

If you've only taken four bucks over the last 14 years, either you're a sportsman in denial, or you just enjoy punishing yourself. Or maybe you just have your harvest standards set too high at the expense of what matters most for other folks.

Just enjoy pursuing and consuming the resource more and worry less about satisfying high standards.

You're totally off-base here. Notice he said he had taken 4 bucks in 14 years "off his place". Believe me, I know from experience, It's completely different when it comes to hunting the land that you own. I see bucks, does, fawns all year long on my place. And although I've only owned it a little over 8 years, there are multiple deer, or groups of deer, that I know intimately.
I've only taken 1 buck in 8 years. But my sons have taken bucks, and young men that have never taken a deer at all have taken there first doe, or buck on my place.
That's what "matters most" to me now. Not simply pulling the trigger to prove something.

Allow me to explain (again):

The "sportsman" stage is defined as basically no longer seeking to kill an animal and, instead, enjoying other aspects that surround hunting (such as being in the outdoors, mentoring others, conservation, and the like).

I enjoy all of that as well. Examples: I photograph wildlife extensively. My family has a cabin in Montana where we all enjoy the outdoors in spades (fishing, hiking, etc.). I manage my place here extensively for better habitat. I am active in several conservation organizations.

But, when I am hunting, the point is to seek an animal. Now, I have killed enough animals of various stripes that I don't have to take an animal every hunt or even every season (and I pass on many looking for the one that fits the bill for me based on my desires), but I am seeking one. And I'm a little bummed when I don't find the one I am looking for.

So I can't just honestly say "That trip/season was just as fulfilling as if I had taken the quarry sought."

Some apparently can, and that's great for them. Maybe I will one day. My point is: at that point am I really even a hunter anymore, or just a guy enjoying the outdoors with a weapon in his hand?
(For the third time: not that there is anything wrong with that at all. Just to me, it would seem that at that "stage" one is no longer a hunter.)

You, Dan, need to understand this though: you have neither the ability or the right to presume how I feel about what I do. Such as whether I am "punishing myself" or have my "standards set too high at the expense of what matters to most other folks".

That it simply being arrogant and presumptuous in the extreme.

And (lest others chime in to confuse the subject), yes - I have stated my opinions on what I believe on various topics related to hunting. And my opinions on what others believe based on what they themselves have stated are their beliefs.

That's much different than presuming to state what others believe for them. Which is something you just did on my behalf and do constantly on here.

Some will either not get or ignore that key distinction in order to turn this into a "controversy" thread. By definition though, it cannot be if it stays "on topic".

I'll say again: whatever "stage" one is in, whether one even buys into the "stages" concept, whether one seeks to kill an animal or not......all these are personal/unique to each individual. Despite the best efforts of some, the point of this thread is not to judge - only discuss.

I'll put it bluntly if all that is too wordy: if your purpose is to just start chit, go start it somewhere else.

I'll bring it back to simplicity using an example:

Say I'm hunting a particular buck on my place. 3 or 4 seasons go by and I never get him. I cannot honestly say I'm not disappointed. Because I was hunting for that deer.

Apparently, some can honestly say "I don't care if I get him or not. Simply being outdoors was enough. The challenge was enough. Knowing he is/was there is enough."
Same if they go on a big "adventure" hunt (which I enjoy to the extreme even if I don't kill an animal). But the goal is always to take an animal I am looking for. Otherwise, why else am I taking a hunting trip and not a (much cheaper and less strenuous) vacation?

My question (personal to each individual) is simply: do you REALLY mean that? And, if so, are you really hunting anymore - or is hunting simply a stated vehicle to enjoy other aspects of the outdoors (observing wildlife, fellowship at the lease, etc.)?

Again: there is no right or wrong answer. And no judgment involved. Just seeking discussion - most of which on here has been great and appreciated.

IMO, those at the Sportman Stage are still interested in taking wild game and still enjoy doing so. They have just learned to draw even greater satisfaction from other "give back" aspects of the sport, while paying less attention to those "me first" things that mattered more in years past.

As an example, I've developed greater pleasure in shooting feral hogs, even when it means interrupting hunting for deer. I've come to realize what a huge nuisance they've become, which is something I ignored in years past when I was more hell bent on taking a trophy buck. I know the landowners in the area could care less if I kill a big buck, but would love it if I killed more hogs.

There is always judgement, by all of us. I wasn't implying and directing anything at you directly, just the thread, the OP and the responses in general. If you took it that way, well, I can see why based on history but you would be hard pressed to find where I have directed anything at you and this isn't one of them either.

Part of my point wasn't that you had implied that one stage was better than any, but we see it daily that certain people do and have seen hunters ridiculed or belittled because of the stage they are in. (shooting young bucks is a good example)

As far as "methods", again, it was in response to the responses. What is great about an open forum is that sometimes topics spin off other topics within themselves. That doesn't mean they are off topic because they actually do relate to the OP.

My point, is I am not a fan of the labeling because, as you said in one of your responses, the hunt can change what stage you would be classified. As far as keeping it on topic with the labels that are applied, I agree with most of them. The last stage I would still say they are a hunter, maybe it just takes more for them to get the adrenaline flowing.

Just so we are both clear, here are some of the quotes of what my post was in response too....

I have devolved. My brother lives in Nebraska and has found us a place to hunt with hand thrown spears next year. I think I will make my own,

I've been told fishing with bow and arrow can be quite (pardon the pun) catching.

Enough palaver. Let's kill something.

Ha! I suppose that if one has a weapon and can contemplate a situation where they might use it, they are hunting. Simple.

I’ve reached the 4th stage and I now bounce back and forth between 2, 3, and 4. I’ve caught myself making the statement about not being disappointed when I get skunked because it’s all about the hunt and the experience. However, deep down I know that’s not always true. I guess fibbing to myself makes me feel a little better.
Not killing anything on a hunt isn’t always equal for me, though. If I’m hunting whitetail at my BIL or buddy’s place, I’m sometimes a little disappointed if I don’t shoot anything and sometimes it doesn’t bother me a bit (late season with an empty freezer is always worse). I hunted with my son in Alaska and didn’t get a deer, but I wasn’t nearly as disappointed as he was. He was acting as my guide so he really wanted me to get another deer there. For me, just getting the rare opportunity to hunt with my son in that beautiful setting meant much more to me than killing a deer so I was ok with it. We also had the opportunity to sit on the side of the mountain and glass whales in the bay so it was a great trip.
When I’m dove hunting I’m always disappointed if I don’t limit out, so I guess I’m stuck at #2 with them. Regardless of the type of hunting, just spending time in the outdoors does mitigate the disappointment every time.
I may eventually get to #5 but I’m not there yet.

I'm about to do what most never will.....

Drum roll...

I love to hunt! Period
My passion and all that flows through my viens. I am and probably will always be about the hunt and all that comes with it. Always been this way. Do I desire the kill, you bet your biscuits! Am I disappointed when an opportunity is blown.. DARN RIGHT! But I have every stage within me. Broke the mold or do not conform to the mold IDK. I plan, prep and execute. My goal is to be successful and strive for success. If I am fortunate to fill all my tags I will do so. If I see a Booner in the brush will I wait yup. Its not about competing with others or setting records. I desire to achieve what I've set my mind to. I am a good steward of the land and believe in sound conservative efforts. I find so much thrill in seeing the excitement of others success even when I stand alone eating a tag sandwich. Now with that being said at the end of a hunt do I sulk over the missed opportunity, NO yet I also do not gloat over success. I am at peace with myself with whatever the outcome cause I hold no one accountable for my results but my own!

No for the fun part. After the light fades and the season comes to a close, all I am ever left with and reflect is the experience and all that it brings... Memories. Example, a few years back finances were tight and I could not afford to take anytime off work for hunting trips. Not even weekend getaways. So after liquidating many of my guns, bow and hunting gear to cover the expenses of raising and taking care of a single income family. My wife on her own accord managed to muster up $150 to buy a youth bow for me to hunt by the house on my days off. Certainly not the right bow for me being an adult but nonetheless with the help of a few friends I managed to get that little thing dialed in. That season I let 12 arrows fly! Yup count'em 12 and never drew blood once! Am I ashamed? Nope. I could stack all those arrows on top of each other at 30 yards. So no don't harrass me about lacking sound judgement on my choice of equipment and the possibility of wounding animals. I FLAT MISSED! TOLD YOU ID DO IT!

Now i say all this to make a point. Disappointed sure! But I had the time of my life!!!! Good fellowship, awesome encounters and some seriously funny moments. I still tell people about that year. I learned and LIVED! I remember the HUGE 8 and 11 pnt we were after. They still haunt my dreams but when all the dust settles I can say I did. I thank my amazing wife for that year. I can't tell you were I stand on a so called evolution chart of a hunter personally but I would say I have for me it's more of evolving as a man.

I have seen others walk the evolution path step for step and others not so much! We are each our own individual. Cheers!

What did you do that nobody else has? Write a book?

That- or admitted to missing 12 times.

All in good fun I know everyone does, I just like to listen to those that say it's never happened