The current testing data on CWD.

Shows a higher % infection rate in "free range" cervids than in breeding facilities. Got this from the exotic wildlife association this am:


"In an effort to provide all of you with the most accurate information regarding CWD testing, I would like to outline some facts about the current testing levels across our state. The subsequent data shows the amount of samples collected, the amount of deer tested, and the breakdown of private samples versus TPWD samples since 2002. Please note the following information:

Total Testing for CWD

Total Tests for CWD Since 2002: 160,064
Total TPWD Tests Since 2002: 62,059
Total Private Tests Since 2002: 98,005

Since Finding CWD in 2015

Total Tests for CWD Since 2015: 99,885
Total TPWD Tests Since 2015: 32,737
Total Private Tests Since 2015: 67,148

CWD Overview in Texas

CWD was first found in Texas in WILD deer in 2012.
ONLY 50 deer have been found to be CWD positive in Texas since 2012.
Millions of dollars have been spent on "managing and monitoring" for this disease since 2012.
There are approximately 4 million deer in Texas.

Wild CWD Testing and Prevalence

Total TPWD tests submitted since 2015 = 32,737
Total CWD positives found in Texas since 2015 = 18 total free-ranging deer.

This means there is a total prevalence of about five one-hundredths of one percent - .055%.
Prevalence = # of Positives/# of Sampled
18 positives/32,737 sample = .055% prevalence.

CWD in the wild herd continues to spread across the landscape into new counties with no real management plan, response plan, or way to stop the spread across North, West, and Central Texas.

Industry Regulations and Testing

More than 1,000 deer killed for testing as a requirement to maintain customers and business continuity due to a perceived emergency that never existed.
More than 67,148 total tests from private facilities across the state have been submitted since CWD was found. (There are estimated to be about 98,000 total deer in pens).
This is more than DOUBLE the tests submitted by TPWD!
Only 32 deer found with CWD in five facilities located within a 15-mile radius of another. There are more than 1,200 breeding facilities and more than 5,000 release sites across Texas.
This means there is a total prevalence of about five one-hundredths of one percent - .047%!!
Prevalence = # of Positives/# of Sampled
32 positives/67,148 samples = .047% prevalence.

TO BE CLEAR, according to the data provided, there is a higher prevalence of CWD in the wild than there is in captive facilities!

Summary of Taxpayer Spending
(These numbers will need to be updated to reflect costs since 2012)

TPWD spent about $1.5 million over the past two years on CWD.
TAHC has spent more than $1 million over the past two years on CWD
This massive increase in testing and overwhelming burden on landowners has only found 32 deer in captive facilities and 18 in the wild with CWD!!!
That means they spent about $50,000 per positive deer of taxpayer money.
Additionally, it has been estimated that the regulations, rhetoric, and falsehoods spread about this disease have caused a NEGATIVE impact of more than $25 million dollars on the industry and Texas economy alone! That means the potential cost to hardworking Texas families is more than $750,000 per positive deer.

Despite the large negative impact on the industry, the testing information provided above is extremely uplifting for the industry in Texas. This data undeniably shows that we are one of the healthiest industries in the country. Despite CWD being found in the wild and in captive deer in our state, the Texas deer industry has done an incredible job of testing it's animals to ensure proper disease management has occurred.

As we look to another year of discussions surrounding CWD, I would like your collective input on what other information might be relevant to request from our regulatory agencies that will help show the entire picture of how CWD has impacted the wildlife in Texas and how regulation has impacted our industry. Please feel free to send me any questions you may have of our regulatory agencies. We will request the information of them that is most important to our industry."

flounder is that you?

Source? TDA?

Nope, this just helps prove that its not as bad as some people talk it up to be.

I would only worry if a "hot spot " turns up, many positives. Then it's in the environment to stay.
I think maybe increased scrutiny has led to many thinking it is spreading across the state. You will know it if you see a waster's deer, skinny, drooling and unafraid of people.They will appear very uncoordinated too.

Well I think most reasonable people know it's a horse [censored] situation.

No. Exotic Wildlife Association.

It was in an email they sent me. So I couldn't post a link and hence the flounder similarity.

The data is from tpwd and tahc.

Well, there's two ways to look at it.

Another way of looking at it is that the non-import laws, TTT rules, and scrutiny are working to contain the spread of CWD. And you gotta have extensive testing data to know where things stand.

And while the data in the article may be accurate, the "spin" is evident. Example: the industry simultaneously griping about the burdens/impact of extensive testing while 3 paragraphs later patting itself on the back for that same extensive testing showing the herd to be safe (isn't that also a point of testing?).

Also, the $50,000, (then $750,000) "test cost per positive deer" and "estimated $25 million" impact on "hardworking families" is obviously "spin".

What has happened is that the taxpayers and breeding industry have spent about $3.50 per Texas hunter or about 9 cents per Texas citizen in its ongoing efforts to protect our state's deer herd and ensure the hunters/public are informed about rates of occurrence.

I'm glad the results have been good so far. I'm also glad the testing has/is being done so we can continue to know where we stand. My advice to the "industry": use the info for PR instead of griping about having to test. Because right now the PR battle isn't going so great for the "industry". (I would also quit calling it an "industry", but that's just me.)

I may and have been known to be full of it but here is what I think is hurting the so called "Deer Breeding Industry" as much or maybe even more than CWD. I think it is what they have made WT Bucks look like. They no longer look like what they were say 20 years ago. They are no longer uniform in antler shape or points. There I believe is only a certain number of the hunting public that either wants to shoot or can afford to shoot one of these deer. And I believe that number is getting to that point. I have been contacted and have sold Ibex to people in the breeding business. Some are getting out because of the CWD scare has affected the number of Deer they sell to other ranches and there is no longer a profit in it. Some that raise for their own clients and those clients are no longer interested in shooting a 300" non typical Buck that everyone knows was pen raised. Everything eventually runs its course. And I believe this industry is getting close to it.

^^^^ I believe you are spot on. It was never about hunting, but the head. When those who want them have the head(s), what's really left?

There is always more room on the wall. You are still killing things for the wall and are an active participant of the hunting "industry". It has been an industry long before breeding entered the picture, and will always be an industry.

The market will correct itself. It's a beautiful thing. But it needs to be determined by something other than a govt entity.

And Don, the folks that I know that have exited the breeding side of the industry are leaving it because the state is inconsistent and involved heavily in picking winners and creating losers. The market is shifting as you said, but it's still very strong.

All one has to do is look at the tpwd board to see why they have created and promoted the CWD scare.

That is probably very true. What I am hearing is that the market is drying up for the "Non-Typical" type WT over 250". I have also heard from breeders that the money and time involved producing those types is not what it used to be and that marketing them is not as easy as it used to be. I still believe both the market drying up and CWD are equally to blame for the down turn. There are going to be those breeders that survive and those with smaller pockets that don't. The breeders that can breed large typical type WT Bucks in the coming years will do very good. The Non-Typical types not so good. Like you said there will always be a market for them but I don't believe it will be large enough for the amount of breeders there are now.

Tell me about the board guys. What are they pushing and why?

Are they LF guys now? Breeders that want to drive others out? A mix?

I don't keep up with it anymore like I used to.

Absolutely the same thing I'm seeing and hearing.

Almost all either own or are tied closely to low fenced operations.

The market has definitely shifted from the large blob antlers to the huge mainframes. One just has to look at the $ to see that. The biggest money per animal is 300"+ mostly mainframes. The largest market is the 160-200" mostly mainframe.

There is a very small number of people who want a 400-500" blob.

I think most of us hope so. Making whitetail deer a farmed commodity is sad and not good for hunting.

Uhh. You do realize that you are speaking to a guy who is participating in "farming a commodity" for profit?..

Why is someone farming white tail sad? And not good for hunting?? Is anyone forcing you to do it?

The Most Successful wildlife program in the history of the world is farmed via restrictions, sex class limits, carrying capacity, value and habitat enhancements.

Welcome to the North American wildlife conservation(sustainablilty) model. You may not agree with the degree it's farmed presently but you will not agrue with its past adoption since it's why you have animals to hunt today.

You can speak for yourself, not most of us.

Nothing sad about it. Axis deer have been farmed successfully for years for restaraunts. It doesn't make me sad or affect my hunting experience for axis. And it doesn't for white tail either.

I don't think the "Farming" aspect of it is the problem. I think it is what the majority of the raised Bucks look like. It was unique at first to see Bucks with that amount of head gear. Now it is getting somewhat outlandish. Also seeing pictures of Bucks that were taken with ear tags still attached to the ears. A very good friend of mine who guides quit one ranch after having a chart of what each Buck on the ranch scored by looking at the number on the tag. When clients of the ranch were there to hunt he knew what size Buck they were allowed to take by the color of the tag. We that have hunters are all in a way farmers of the wildlife. But I do believe some of us are more ethical about it than others. Now lets see who's panties this gets in a wad.

I'm not in a wad anymore about it. I think the market is slowly playing itself out. It won't crash like the emu business but just slowly wither on the vine. Attitudes are changing - that's pretty evident everywhere you look. There will be a few in the "industry" that will survive to meet the needs/demand that will remain.

I do find it amusing the apparent need some have to "justify" it as some sort of highbrow conservation service/model. I'm pretty sure: 1)with a state wild population of 5 million+ TX whitetails are in no danger and 2)deer farming doesn't have squat to do with the North American Conservation Model. That's about like saying chicken broiler houses are a part of bringing the Bald Eagle back.

It is what it is. It will either survive or not based on demand.

Has everything to do since white tails where reintroduce, so where elk, sheep, bison, turkeys etc.
Call it what you want but with out farming we wouldnt have animals to hunt, nor preserved populations to repopulate areas with.
The sheep facility at sierra diablo is pretty impressive. The elk pens in Kentucky pretty cool stuff also.

Game Animal wouldn't be what they are today with only game laws, they need more.

I won't even bring in habitat enhancement/cultivation since most fed land is frindge habitat

None of which has anything to do with TX whitetail breeder operations. Neither does animal "farming" in general. The NACM is about the care and conservation of wild, free ranging animals in their natural, wild environs. That in a few instances animals were temporarily kept and/or bred in enclosures before re-introduction into the wild doesn't have squat to do with TX deer farming. Zip. Zero. Nada.

You think Roosevelt, Bird-Grinnell, Leopold, et. al. (who articulated and developed the NACM) would like TX deer farming? Hint: read their books. Learn whereof you speak.

I don't like arguing but it's just hard to let conflating the pioneering and transformational work of NA wildlife conservation and deer farming for private profit go. They could hardly be more polar opposite endeavors with more polar opposite motivations.

in the OP, it say's: 32 incaptivity were found with CWD & only 18 in wild...
in this thread, see the words, industry, farming, antler size, & blame on LF ...

yet, in 83 whin moved to area was buck only, no doe permits, not enough deer...Then around 2010 or so, its Smith County LF area, ir went to 4 deer county...
did they relocate deer? got D- in grammer yet, dont take away what some have acomplished...
Have said: use the BBT ... when person shoots a legal buck, the other deer get educated...Got all my deer tags hung on wall, & whenn it went 4 deer, still grabbed my pbow & hung my stand down at OSBWMA... Lower Class Hunters can make a differance... As pappy says: theirs more to hunting than just the big bucks

I have read the books, apparently I have a much more in depth non filtered view then you do.
. Actually let me correct that I have a much more level head non-imaginary non-romantic view. NACM has to do with establishing laws and practices to continue the sustainability of game animals.

You hold a market gunner as the epicenter of all things Conservation. He conserved what frindge habitat we had left. That's a product of serious regret. He nor Leopold gave us the saved seed populations that where used to repopulate NA, PRIVATE LANDOWNERS did.

Fact, I at my limited age, have seen larger herds of elk, bision, pronghorn and white tails then what Roosevelt or Leopold have. Recovery numbers provided not by fringe habitat but by private land owners.

Rarity and sadden by the loss of Animals is a reformed Market gunner trait, that now regrets his conquests that have left wildlife on Threatened status.

Your conservation view mirrors the same as the concrete encrusted Americans and Europeans have of Yellowstone as the great wild frontier. It's a zoo, nothing more nothing less. It's not wild, it's manufactured.

You can't take a practice that single handily provided the seeds of recovery and label it as nothing to do with the NA conservation Model. You can say that the practice is no longer needed for some animals, but denying its use is ignorant at best.

Im happy that Roosevelt had a coming to Jesus and realized that his and others practices where leading to the loose of species for future generations, I'm happy he found away to preserve the remaining fringe habitat from development, and put it into limited use. Im happy that our wildlife is protected from over "harvest" via game laws built on continued health and sustainability of our game animals.

Where did the deer come from before you moved there. Is their DNA specific to only that area or a couple of places with in Texas and the US?

I've said my piece. I think it was clear. I'm endeavoring to avoid the "Lather, rinse, repeat." days of old.

So feel free to continue to elucidate what is clearly - no matter how many words you dump into the hopper to create your smokescreens.

You can declare victory now.

You are endeavoring to manifest a delusional view that agriculture pre-dates animal husbandry, which is the foundation of our understanding and management of Animals.

You are also delusional in thinking that a farmer always sells/eats/feeds all his seed........ b/c, eventually there would be no seed left(saved or bought)to plant.

just an uneducated guess, mother natute ?
Things have changed here also... When i grew up, farm land, people also raised livestock cattle, horses, hogs, all LF out doors with barn or some kind of shelter ta get out of bad weather... Now, they have big hog barns, workers have ta shower in between going from barn to barn... They have more problems with desieses vs old way...
32 vs 18 #'ers dont lie... acording to your question, their were no deer in Smith County .
...
edit: that might be a good educational TOPIC... Where did deer come from ?

NP wants to confine the term "farming deer" to the current state of deer breeding in Texas. Which of course he does to protect his agenda.

When in fact man has been farming cervids for many decades. And when viewed from the correct inclusive perspective one can see BoBo's point.

NP and Don are correct in that the market is changing (mostly of course because they agree with me and I'm always right), and the race to grow pure mass is virtually over. But make no mistake, there is still a huge market for mid range "farmed" mainframes.

And that market is growing and will be serviced. Deer farming is here to stay. And has been around for a REALLY long time. Don can't even remember when it began.

You have he ability to find an Internet forum dedicated to Texas hunting/hunters but don't know how to compare historical Trichinosis rates in domesticated hogs?

Do our hogs have more diseases or is the speed and reaching ability of the Media make it only appear that way?

You want to know where your post screw worm deer came from, research it. To understand the North American conservative model you have to know how we got to "why" we needed it and what the early stages where. More to why a race is won, then just the last 50 yards.

When one calls themselves a hunter conservationist it means way more then a donation and buying a hunter license

as pappy say's: got D- in grammer ... Have put forth an effort ta make sure my spelling & punctuation is correct... people get offended cause I just try ta be me, no one else wants the job... kind a like when got hired at foundry, making that easy money... using an idiot stick...
are you saying i'm not a conservationist ? cause I don't buy into your theary ?

I actually remember some doing it before it was legal.

Knowing the history of the animals we hunt isn't theory. Being able to show how hunters are the driving force in the preservation of sustainable populations of wildlife is being a true conservationist.

Don't want to help the non hunting public understand how hunting is conservation? cool enjoy your time outdoors.

No doubt. I do too. But I was referring to the broader definition of "farming". Been going on longer than you and I have.

For purposes of this thread, I'm talking about farming deer, not HF in general. Anybody with a brain and no agenda to push knows what I'm talking about.

The phrase is not "confined" or "confining" to anyone but those seeking to expand it to include what goes on with actual wildlife conservation of wild, free ranging animals. Which endeavor is, in short, nonsensical.

Just don't cotton to trying to make that sow's ear into a silk purse by spitting on the graves of actual conservationists.

as pappy say's few can walk in my shoes, i gots small feet ...
as said in my posts, it was buck only county when moved their in 83, 2010 or so it went ta 4 deer county, Thanks for the complement, & i do enjoy the outdoors, also support high fence, took my kids & grandkids ta the zoo...

Actual wild conservation of wild.... lol

Just because you don't understand the actual history and animal husbandry that happened to bring the NACM to what it is today is no reason to get upset.


In one year he slew 512 beasts including 17 lion, 11 elephant and 20 rhinoceros....... conservationist.... does that mean going abroad to slaughter/kill because at that time Game numbers in the US where in a downward spiral, with many species ultimately becoming extinct in the next 10 years....... he didn't implement game laws or the NACM. Elk in Texas went extinct after he took office and left office.


The midnight forests are some of the most treasured places in America and it was by far one of the greasiest political moves in the history of the US. I am for ever great full. But he is still a market gunner

Outstanding, I've been to Yellowstone also.

some good info on this thread... As hunters, conservation plays big part for future generations... At area had my set up, used the walmart, they size of brick, mineral licks, acorn, corn, & apple flavor... Deer hit them most in the warmer weather... Used to dig hole so they sit flush with ground along deer trails... Worked good... Around the 90's seen first sign of hogs, my set up, deer food plot was up against creek, with spinner throughing corn as a dinner bell... After seeing hog sign, stoped putting the minneral bricks on ground & started putting them out of reach of hogs... Ta prevent spreading of dieses... Not sure how CWD spreads... Hogs eat every thing deer does, used the PVC gravity feeders for corn, although whin hogs would show up on cams, did broad cast corn ta put down hogs...
What effect will come of hogs sharing the corn thrown on ground... realuze some areas have their feeders in pen were keep out hogs, cattle, livestock... just my i got cheap posts... Too often threads get locked down cause of differance of opinions... Need tear down fences & keep an open mind...

We have a hot spot here in Missouri (on the border of Randolph and Macon Counties). Seems some 'wildlife rancher' decided it would be a good idea to buy some deer and elk for his ranch. Not wanting it to cost much he bypassed the import rules. State Dept of Ag found out and required testing of said animals. SURPRISE- over half of them tested positive not only for CWD but brucelosis (sp?). Before Ag Dept had time to act a storm came thru and a tree fell across the fence AND SICK ANIMALS GOT OUT! Have had a few cases of CWD not in that area, but 90% came from there. Missouri had mandatory testing the first weekend of last season in counties around the hot spot. Son and I had 4 tested- none came back positive.

Comical!

its me again the snowflake as pappy once said: person with an open mind has a wider point of view...
Recently noticed in Deer Hunting section, last post was about CWD... 99% time i stay out of that section, think had two threads, culling & debaiting if remember right... Got on forum ta see if anyone was up for a hog hunt on public land...
in this discussion, was asked were i thought deer come from... ta all the deer farmers, with out them theired be no deer in ...

In OP , paraphrasing :



man plays no roll i could have been culling 4 deer

Which part?

Does Missouri test any other counties?