First impression from behind the HF.

Had the honor of hunting on a amazing 1900 acre high fence ranch down near Laredo this weekend. Being that it was high fenced and there were handfuls of MLD tags needing to be used on culls and does, I came prepared with lots of bullets and coolers. After all, it's high fenced and that's shooting fish in a barrel isn't it? Our guide showed us pictures of several old culls that were on the kill list, some of which would be my largest buck ever. Well what I didn't expect was with the rain they have received this year the amount of brush and how dense it would be. I saw deer every sit but no bucks that were on the cull list and unfortunately all the doe I saw had ear tags and were off limits. After talking with the manager of the ranch I found out that most of the bucks on the cull list had only been seen on cameras and never in person. Did manage to take two hogs and a javalina. My hunting partner had a little more luck and managed three does and funky looking cull buck. Had a great time and was just amazed at the amount of cover the land has down there. So everyone that thinks that tall fence makes the hunting easier I would suggest trying it for yourself before you judge. It can be every bit if not harder of a hunt on the right ranch. That was my first HF hunt and hope to do again next year.

Its just the small minded ones that hunt 2 times a year and live thru Hunting Shows

Glad you had a great time and that is some Lovely Country

Congrats

Not sure one "weekend" is enough to judge from, but congrats on the hogs none the less

Chris,

Glad you had a good time but don't expect your post to convert anyone. The feelings on HF and LF are very strong and the discussions can be pretty interesting until the posts start to get personal. If you keep an open mind you can see valid points on both sides.

All that said, hope your hogs are tasty.

That being said...

Congrats. But don't expect anyone to actually experience something before they judge it.

I have a couple of high fenced bucks on my south Texas ranch that have been on a hit list for 5+ years. One is at least 10 years old now. Targeting specific deer can many times be the most difficult type of hunting.

Stx does it each year on his "small" LF place and always seems to connect. What's wrong with you?

Just messing with you. Hunting is hunting, no matter where it is done.

Congrats to the OP for an interesting first experience. Hope the next trip is more productive, but congrats on the experience, the hogs and javi

Congrats sounds like a fun hunt

Sounds like a fun trip.

I love south texas, its where I like to spend as much of my time as possible.

Wait for it.....

lol

With 1900 acres....it doesn't matter what kind of fence it has unless its all plowed fields.....Jes Sayin....

Just cuz it's HF don't mean they're in an 8x8 pen.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

The ignorant will remain that way by their choice and I will continue to refer to them as such.

I hope they give you another opportunity to connect on one of those bucks.

Chris is a very good hunter who's very unlikely to make a mistake. He'll be invited back and kill one of those bucks, I'm sure of it.

ChrisB if you had permission to do so and wanted to do so, could you have killed any non-cull-list bucks?

Let me begin with I do not care how or where anyone else hunts. Different strokes for different folks. But how does someone disagreeing with hunting behind a HF make them ignorant? To the OP, how could hunting behind a HF be harder than hunting free range animals? I am glad you had fun and glad you harvested a hog. That is what it is all about. I personally am not a fan of HF's but am hunting for culls and does behind one in two weeks much like you did. I will also be in S. Texas and am looking forward to having a good time doing it. I do not however think I am ignorant for not supporting HF's. Just my $0.02.

Thanks for the fresh perspective. I would hunt that place in a heartbeat and consider it an honor.

never hunted HF, don't have anything against it, if its a decent amount of acreage...

Let me be clear:

The ignorant are the ones that classify this hunt and all other HF hunts as shooting a deer in a pen that has no chance to escape and is waiting for you to pull the trigger. You tell me, is that ignorant or not?

And by the way, the same people I'm referring to are going to paint your hunt your doing in 2 weeks with the same broad brush. They will ignore all facts pertaining to your hunt like acreage, terrain, conditions, methods and classify you as hunting deer in a pen that can't escape just waiting for you to pull the trigger. Would you call that ignorant?

That's all I was trying to give. Wasn't trying to convert anyone. I'll be back at my low fence lease this weekend with bow in hand waiting on a big buck to slip up.

Not a fan of HF but your going hunting in one in two weeks? Don't support it but your lowering your standards anyway?

There are two types of hunting, fair chase and High fence. I dont know why everyone makes such a big deal out of it. kill animals anyway you legally can. But don't tell me it's the same because it's not. I've guided and killed cull deer on some large high fence places.

I was also drawn for a hunt on the Mason Mountain WMA last year. It was just what I expected, shooting animals in a large pen. It was a good time and we limited out the first afternoon, we also got to see some really nice deer and exotics. However I would have had just as much fun spotlighting deer down the side of the highway if it were legal.

The ignorant part comes in play because some prefer to remain ignorant by not at least visiting one and seeing how difficult it can be.

The part about it being harder has to do with the fact that most south Texas ranches are impenetrable brush with food and bedding places everywhere. Huge numbers of Midwest farmland hunters who hunt areas consisting of farm fields with very limited cover bad mouth high fences. When in fact they have some of the easiest hunting on the planet.

This is fact.

The world record buck milo Hanson killed ran into a itty bitty wood lot surrounded by farmland....they drove him outta there and shot him on the run. He had also been shot at previously IIRC

Guessing you'd have had more fun spotlighting. Were it legal.

How bout them Rangers

Glad you had a good hunt....

[quote=therancher

Huge numbers of Midwest farmland hunters who hunt areas consisting of farm fields with very limited cover bad mouth high fences. When in fact they have some of the easiest hunting on the planet. [/quote]

Rusty,
You know I have no issue with HF or LF...everyone has a right to do what they want with their property and to hunt how they choose. But I really cannot agree with you about the Midwest being "some of the easiest hunting on the planet." I have hunted Iowa with a muzzleloader for the past 7 years and it is not easy by any stretch and there is certainly adequate cover. I have also hunted Ohio and Kansas multiple times (in fact the guide in KS on my last hunt almost drowned us by capsizing the boat while crossing the Kansas river...but that's another story worth its own post) and it's always a hard hunt....just like anywhere else.

Rusty,
You know I have no issue with HF or LF...everyone has a right to do what they want with their property and to hunt how they choose. But I really cannot agree with you about the Midwest being "some of the easiest hunting on the planet." I have hunted Iowa with a muzzleloader for the past 7 years and it is not easy by any stretch and there is certainly adequate cover. I have also hunted Ohio and Kansas multiple times (in fact the guide in KS on my last hunt almost drowned us by capsizing the boat while crossing the Kansas river...but that's another story worth its own post) and it's always a hard hunt....just like anywhere else. [/quote]

That doesn't mean they don't have some of the easiest hunting on the planet. I wasn't meaning to imply all of their hunting was easier. Some hunting can be difficult no matter where it is.

But when you have 20 acres of bedding cover, and food sources that are open ground, you really have no business saying thousands of acres of impenetrable brush isn't hunting, or is shooting fish in a barrel.

And there are MULTITUDES of hunters hunting places like that, who attack HF and feeders.

That doesn't mean they don't have some of the easiest hunting on the planet. I wasn't meaning to imply all of their hunting was easier. Some hunting can be difficult no matter where it is.

But when you have 20 acres of bedding cover, and food sources that are open ground, you really have no business saying thousands of acres of impenetrable brush isn't hunting, or is shooting fish in a barrel.

And there are MULTITUDES of hunters hunting places like that, who attack HF and feeders. [/quote]

..And probably more hunter in places like Texas judging from this forum. My ONLY point is that you can defend HF by describing the HF experience...no need to try and compare it to anything else. I tend to justify things on their merit...it's a standalone kind of argument .... and as you know, I have no issue with HF.

Ha ha! Now that is pretty ignorant. Where did I say anything about lowering my standards? I didn't. Don't be so sensitive. I never said anything negative about hunting behind a HF nor did I say it's easy. You obviously like hunting behind HF's. That's great. Keep it up and good luck. Post pictures of your deer as I love to look at big bucks. I personally would rather hunt LF. Simple as that. I'm spending a few days culling animals from an old college friend's HF ranch. I am looking forward to spending time with him on his ranch watching the wildlife as I have not seen him in several years. If we shoot a few deer great. If we don't that's great too. If you think that means I am a fan of HF's and support it than so be it.

Not sure how the Midwest entered the discussion. The OP stated that hunting behind a HF could be harder than hunting behind a low fence. How is that? Sure it is if you compare apples to oranges. Hunting a large HF ranch in S. Texas would definitely be harder than hunting a hill country ranch. Compare apples to apples. How would hunting a large HF ranch be harder than hunting the same ranch with a low fence? It wouldn't.

Your right it wouldn't be, just like it wouldn't be any easier on either ranch as well. As the OP stated, 1800 acres of thick brush country is gonna hunt the same, low fence or high fence.

Ignorant is saying "I'm not a fan of it, but I'm going to go do it any way".

ig·no·rant
\ˈig-n(ə-)rənt\adjective

: lacking knowledge or information

: resulting from or showing a lack of knowledge



So no, he is not ignorant, he is decisive.

You can also CHOOSE to be ignorant of known facts to support your position.

If you read my original post that's exactly what I said. Those that choose to be ignorant.

They choose a lack of knowledge because they don't want to know the facts....like a horse that chooses to put blinders on.

I will say it again , the fact is that you see tons and tons of 200'' + deer that are shot of HF places and how many do you see off of LF place ? Not very many at all .
I have been on quite a few of HF and they have all been big places not the 200-300 acr and i have been able to see many bucks that i could have taken if i wanted to but i was there to help with counting deer and management of the places . The big difference is when you have 1900 or 5000 acr HF that is a lot of area for the deer to move on and that's a given but where you differ from HF to LF is the deer in the HF will be there no matter what and have no choice but to stay on that section of land and also are a lot more predictable than you think but this is only what i have saw on the places i have been on and know not all are the same .

I can see both sides of the argument. I don't have an issue with high fences, I have hunted behind them and will again. It is not canned hunting and it is not a pen. Unless you are herding/driving the deer up against the fence I fail to see how it is much different to a blind/feeder sitter at all.

That said I do like that the record books are kept separate and HF deer are not allowed. The 540+/- inch deer in the photo section should be recorded on a completely different list from the LF native genetic free range deer. Shoot what you want where you want and OWN UP TO IT.

Not all, but certainly a lot of folks from the Midwest look down on us dumb Texans for A. hunting over feeders and B. putting up high fence enclosures. As stated above, many of them hunt over corn fields with very little cover on the edges.

A friend and fellow lease member just had his brother down from Iowa. The brother confirmed that he had a lot of friends that looked down on the way we Texans hunt. He was headed back to tell them that they were full of it.

It all comes down to this: Some folks just like looking down on other folks.

Agreed. We have plenty of trophy orgs to go around. Pick one you like. The only problem I have is when folks want to outlaw methods they don't choose to use.

SCI has an estate category

A lot of Midwesterners have the same issue that some low fence ranches in Texas have. They don't like it because with management that HF affords, you can match the deer only they used to be able to produce.

Ignorant is saying "I'm not a fan of it, but I'm going to go do it any way". [/quote]

I will repeat this one last time since you obviously cannot grasp it. I am going to spend time with a close friend on his ranch in S. Texas (Webb County). It happens to have a HF. I enjoy spending time with friends, eating good food, being in nature and watching big bucks. Regardless of my stance on the HF debate, should I turn down the invitation to spend time with an old buddy on a very nice ranch because it has a HF? I have not once said a negative thing about anyone hunting behind a HF. Matter of fact I have purposefully avoided this debate on this site for years because it goes nowhere. I simply asked why my stance on hunting behind a HF makes me ignorant. The question was to PP and he respectfully answered. Why do you feel the need to attack because someone's opinion differs from yours? Did I say something that hurt your feelings in some way? Stop being so sensitive and take notes from PP about how to have an intelligent discussion or debate.

In VA we cannot bait, cannot keep native species (so no deer farms or high fence hunting preserves), we just recently permitted Sunday hunting on private property.. and oh BTW, YOU CANNOT USE DEER URINE because our Fish & Game are afraid it will spread CWD!

We also have the ongoing debate between hunting with hounds vs those that oppose it, allowing crossbow hunting during the general archery season, and the list goes on.

Bottom line is that you are always going to have some portion of the population who doesn't like what others do. I personally do not like hunting with hounds... so I don't do it. What I do want are regulations that ensure that those who hunt with hounds do it on the property they have permission to hunt (what some of the less than ethical Houndsmen do is release the hounds so that they run across your property and to me that's wrong). But hunting with hounds is a long standing tradition in the South and Southeast and I do not think it's appropriate to ban it.

Where I think things get ugly is when someone wants to "make it illegal" for others to hunt a specific way or to manage (read that as have a HF if you like) their own property.

Been watching this thread for a while, interesting every day.

I will repeat this one last time since you obviously cannot grasp it. I am going to spend time with a close friend on his ranch in S. Texas (Webb County). It happens to have a HF. I enjoy spending time with friends, eating good food, being in nature and watching big bucks. Regardless of my stance on the HF debate, should I turn down the invitation to spend time with an old buddy on a very nice ranch because it has a HF? I have not once said a negative thing about anyone hunting behind a HF. Matter of fact I have purposefully avoided this debate on this site for years because it goes nowhere. I simply asked why my stance on hunting behind a HF makes me ignorant. The question was to PP and he respectfully answered. Why do you feel the need to attack because someone's opinion differs from yours? Did I say something that hurt your feelings in some way? Stop being so sensitive and take notes from PP about how to have an intelligent discussion or debate.

[/quote]

I simply commented on a remark they you made that you didn't agree with HF but were choosing to go anyway. Then you make another comment about wanting to watch big deer behind that particular HF. It just sounds weird, sounds like your talking down to me for asking about statement you made that wasn't very intelligent.

At 21xsElite,

I do not think he's talking down to you...just clarifying that while he doesn't primarily hunt HF (for whatever reason ...that's his call)... he doesn't have a problem with you or anyone else doing it and he's also not opposed to hunting a high fence himself when a friend invites him to hunt his ranch.

To the OP...
I'm glad you had a great experience and wanted to share it with us here on the THF. Personally I have had easy and hard hunts on both types. To me what's important is that you had a good time doing what you love.

Someone gets it!

As far as "B" is concerned, at the end of the day no matter how difficult you want to make it or no matter how well the deer in the fence have humans patterned, it is still shooting a captive animal. If folks like doing that and consider that "trophy" hunting, have at it, but know that some folks see it for what it is.....

Why is it so many care about what Yanks think

I hunt on LF land but am always interested in how the HF managed their deer. Most paid a good price to put the fence up, get the MLD permits and work to keep the deer numbers in check. If you pay attention to these guys and see how many does they need\have to take off each year, it's amazing. This is what needs to be learned from them. More LF places need to take off greater number of does. I see to many folks at the locker plant bringing in 1.5 - 3.5 yo bucks. Some say they only get to hunt once or twice a year and that was the first buck they saw...then others are quick to throw out it's a 'management buck'. Well if it's a management buck, it's a small or screwed up rack, then why are you taking the rack to get it mounted???
I know there are some that just want to shot a buck and really don't worry\care about growing big antlers. But those that want the big racks but continue to shot the young ones and don't take a good ratio of does, are the ones that I don't understand...

I'd take a free hunt on a HF place anytime...

I see a self-righteous...

Finally someone understands!!

If you hunt anywhere in S. Tex there is a high fence somewhere... You might be on 1,000 or 20,000 but there is probably a fence surrounding you somewhere on a neighboring property. Why manage a place only to have a neighbor shoot anything they want? I hunt a relatively cheap lease in N. Tex to shoot what I want. You need large acreage or a co-op to truly manage up here. S. Tex is about managing a herd to its full potential since genetics, land size, and browse is near perfect to grow big bucks. We shot a 180 lb dressed buck on low fence last week down there. It bottomed out the 225 scale live weight. No protein or feed. Numerous 150 inch bucks seen b/c they don't shoot young deer and shoot all spikes and older doe. That being said several hunts some of us only saw one deer the whole 3 hour hunt. Other hunts you might see 10 to 15.

I've hunted deer from Colorado to New York. I hunt feeders here at home, spot and stalked mule deer in Colorado, hunt corn and soybean fields and wood lots it Missouri and have hunted corn and soybean field edges, wood lots and swamps in New York. They hardest, most fruitless hunting I've had was in New York. If you have big groups you can do deer drives and get running shots at them. But hiking through knee deep snow on mile long drives through swamps and wood lots about killed me. In Missouri (where I own land) the EHD epidemic is so bad our deer heard is decimated and you sit and see nothing most days. Here people have what is arguably the greatest whitetail and exotic hunting in the nation. But we do nothing but attack each other about hunting over feeders, hunting high fence, paying high lease fees, management practices and meat hunting. I've hunted high fence, low fence and no fence areas across Texas. I've had a couple great deer leases and some bad deer-less leases. I've hunted the Type II land (back when they called it that) in east Texas and killed a buck the every year I hunted it. No monsters but I had meat in the freezer. I've had leases in the hill country, like the one I'm on now where it's low fence, that the deer aren't spooky and some will come to the feeder while you are standing there filling it.

I personally enjoy seeing game when I hunt. Personally I don't give a rats back end what another person thinks of that. I do however believe that the end of our way of life will be as much the fault of those within it as it those who oppose all of us.

We are spoiled and we are acting like it.

Excellent post

X2

X3

That is an excellent post. Very well written. I have a different view however.

IMO the HFs do and will continue to threaten our right to hunt. Non-hunters don't much like the idea of shooting captive animals. It's that simple. One good documentary on the typical HF "pay a big fee and get a big buck" hunt would do a helluva lot of damage to our way of life.

Hunters debating ethics is not a threat to hunting in any way, shape, or form. Outsiders expect responsible folks to discuss the ethics of their pursuits. And no hunter is going to stop hunting because of differences of opinions about hunting.

So all the "shut up or you're going to ruin everything" talk makes no sense to me when it comes to this subject. It might impact HF but not hunting as a whole.

Same could be said for one on LF doing the same then correct?

No. Don't mean to yell, but there is one big difference: LOW FENCE ANIMALS ARE NOT CAPTIVE.

SMH

I hate to break it to you but captive or not the anti are against it.
I don't think it's any different than the anti gun nuts.
You may not like what someone else is doing. And what you are doing may be low on the trim down list of the anti groups. But by the time they get to you there will be few left to help you because you threw them under the bus.

^agree

Nothing wrong with hunting an HF place. If I had enough property to keep it sporting, I'd probably HF it anyway. Helps keep predators at bay- especially the 2 legged kind.

Well then I guess they must be much harder to hunt then....correct http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3703520/1
Then by your standards if it is harder to hunt you can have menu pricing and need a calculator to hunt as long as the animal is behind a LF? I wonder if those animals that can not jump a LF know that they are not captive......

So by being as you so phrased it "Captive" that means it is not fair to the animal to be hunted?

I mean what the word means.

Dictionary definition:

"captive" adj.

"Kept under restraint or control; confined."

So is it not putting a Deer under control by giving and addicting it to a free meal by either corn or protein? Be that a HF or LF.

Don I'm not going round and round the mulberry bush again.

HF deer are captive. LF deer are not.

It really is that simple. I know many want to re-define words, change the subject, point at shiny objects, etc., etc. to distract from that simple concept. Believe me, non-hunters know what captive means. And what the HFs are for.

So this would include animals that live on an island also by your definition? I guess you are against hunting animals on an island also?

Deer are captive by topography as well

Sheep are restricted to mountain ranges for instance.

I hunt HF and LF both, and it doesn't take a deer on either place long to outdistance my old fat arse...

Captive... That actually made me laugh

Actually NP I believe you are actually the one that wants to redefine words. One of the definitions of captive you gave was "control". One of the main ways you control an animal is with feed. You are controlling an animal LF by feeding at a certain place and time each day. So you see but probably won't admit that feeding deer LF is actually making them captive to that feeder.

It is hard to believe real people are actually spending time writing this stuff. You hold deer captive by feeding them......that is hilarious. You are grasping for straws. Give it up!

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3703520/1

Actually you are the one that needs to come to the realization that by feeding an animal at a certain time and place each day is is in a way captive. How do you think animals are caught? They are feed up and either tranquilized or have a net dropped on them. The only job animals have is to find food for that day. You feeding them is controlling them and as one of the definitions stated that is a form of captive.

well played.....all I hear are crickets now....

They are more captive by man-made water holes. AZ, NV, and NM are prime examples.

One of the hottest spots for Mule deer is the AZ strip. The mule deer population (as it stands)of the strip isn't possible with out man made water holes. He whom controls the water controls those animals.

How does Wildlife services keep relocated sheep on a mountain? Salt/mineral and water. Simple formula.

Captive is a funny word, whole meaning is to paint a bad picture. Why some have to dictate how others should hunt, I'll never understand. What's next making fun and talking down to custom rifle owners or, large land owners or those that can afford premium leases, or arent thought of high enough to get asked to join a premium lease. It will never end, some just want to grandstand.

6 year old asks his Daddy as they go down the road:

"Daddy, what's that tall fence for?"

Normal human being Dad answers:
"To keep the animals inside from getting out, son."

Some of you guys' answer:
"It's for nothing son. Ignore it. It has no purpose. Why, I don't know why it's even there. Please do not ask that question again. You are obviously an anti-hunting subversive bent of destroying our way of life."

hmmm, learned today that if ya be budding corn, food plots, & such out on LF is different than if ya do it on HF....
can only speak for me a life time lowfer , never hunted near a HF... Last lease had.. Parked truck on main road on lease that goes ta other end... Got out walked ta were had brush hoged a road angling back away from LF.. its ruffly little over 100 yrds, ta my tree stand from fence... At edge, theirs a thick area, seen a deer... Finaly seen atlers... Raised rifle, looked threw scope, no clear shot.. eased forward, lost sight of deer, then noticed deer movement.. Doe jumped LF then another doe jumped LF & finaly the buck jumped LF.. The deer won, & i had a rifle... That thar corn, food plot & such, don't hold a deer on LF... Deer on LF here learn from the BBT around here & learn ta go nocturnal at young age, tis servival... Got nothing against HF, just can't aford the prices ta hunt one... Had a small set up for close ta 30 years.. Been buck only for 25 of them years, they free ta roam on LF here.. 2010 we mannaged till it went ta 4 deer county... Hog # down deer # up...

I think its just as lame to try and call every HF a pen and canned hunting as it is to say there is no difference in hunting LF and HF.

We have separate record books lets let this dead horse decompose already.

Please, same old NP, tossing crap adjectives on the wall hoping it sticks to change public opinion.

There isn't a tall Fence in STX that makes deer captive. Deterred yes. Captive no. No fence can with stand trees, water(water gaps), serious poachers, pigs, deer that want over and illegals.

I have a buddy that has a HF around his farm. Instead of a 100 deer every morning he has 8-10. It's funny he gets CD permits and family to kill everyone he can, every year new deer jump the fence.

Wait a minute, you mean they left? Dang, if only they couldn't jump that darn fence. Isn't that what these other guys preach?

Someone says captive and the HF people start talking about islands, moutians, water holes, salt blocks, and feeders. They remind me of their King obama, "we have Isis contained." Come on guys, call a spade a spade.

Yeah...sorta like those guys who have only been on one glaring example of a HF ranch and bunch them all in the same group. Worse yet is when they have never been on one. These guys just keep spewing.....

You say a HF does not make animals captive.

I say that's the purpose of the HF.

And I'M the one throwing crap on the wall?

Ooooooooooooooooo...........................K.

Hey, what does captive mean again? What are high fences used for? If you play from the ladies tee box, is it harder than playing from the men's?

Hey, HF are meant to keep deer out also. But you choose to only state what makes your feel warm and fuzzy.

So, they work in keeping deer out but not for keeping them in? OK, got it.

They work both ways (just ask any farmer who puts up a fence to try to keep out wildlife off their crops)..just wanting all to know they are putting up fences for a reason. Not just one singled out reason but all the reasons

Ya and you still are. How did deer get into a HF farm that has no trees, it's been cleared, its 4 sections of row crops? Obviously the fence isn't there to keep deer in, its there to keep them out but they still get in...... It's a deterrent. Nothing more nothing less. Real captive, lol. T-Rex's aunt has a high fenced orchard... Same problem deer still get in.......

Same old story with you. Using adjectives to paint an unfavorable demeaning picture. It's a deterrent nothing more nothing less. Tame, captive, livestock all terms YOU have used to push an agenda and demean others.

It's unfortant that you truely don't understand the habitats and abilities of the Animals you hunt.

You must be joking if your suggesting that deer jumping the fence is the rule and no the exception no?

It's a deterrent. How effective do you truely think it is? Look at all of our free range exotics? Ear tagged deer that show up on here. Stories of guys killing 300" deer that jumped the fence or went under it.

It's hard to measure what goes and comes unless you have an Ag crop feild or exotics show up. How does one know where a deer came from? Unless you have watched it grow you don't.

I can tell you from my buddies farm is 70-80% effective depending on the year. He catches them, he kills them, there is always new deer jumping it.

I watched 4 deer this weekend go under a HF to my south. I know for a fact that HF wasn't put there to stop deer, it's there to deter hunters on my side from shooting across it. You couldn't keep it patched any way. 365 day job. Illegal foot traffic keeps it that way. I bet that fence at best only deters 50% of the deer. Even then majority aren't effected because it doesn't impeded on thier home area.

Lots of variables. We had a HF place next door and we had lots of exotics of all kinds, but we also shared several low water crossings. How many places have zero water crossings etc. Yes to quote a move which makes it all true "nature finds a way" but at even 70-80% it is one heck of an effective deterrent. If it wasn't I don't think people would spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars on them to build them.

So now that we all agree that taking a deer at a feeder is actually a captive deer. Since they have been programmed by the hunter to appear at a certain time each day that makes them controlled. Right? And since control of an animal has the same definition as captive. Do those that now post pictures of their animals on here now required to classify them as captive and not HF or LF?

You are talking to yourself as far as I am concerned. Normal people not twisting themselves into a pretzel to re-define words know what the word captive means. The operative word in the definition given above is confined. Certainly in the HF context.

And why may I ask are you answering my post if I am talking to myself? Can't handle the truth NP?

Efficient is very open ended, you ever seen a ranch with out a low water gap? That's under you still have over.
It's does impede for some, but why do people put wildlife guzzlers, food plots, feeders etc? Those are also controls. In a lot of places a water hole is more

Effective is a open ended also.... In the end it will vary. Just like an island....is the island effective in keeping deer in/on it? Depends on the length of swim.

Of all the things a HF is it's not captive.

This has gone full on "Alice In Wonderland".

I still don't have anything against HF's but yes I must agree im looking for the fat cat to come dancing along any moment

Nope, some just have a delusional perceptive. A perceptive that's only there to demean and can't be supported by fact.

Why is I can provide rough percentages and you can't. They are all captive right? Should be easy for you then.

Learn about the animals you hunt... Including their abilities, nature, and habitats, then come back with an experience that supports your claims. The OP did, and once again you found away to demean his hunt by telling him they where 100% captive animals.

Same old NP, same old guy that looks down on others, same sly way of degrading. You won't ever change.

And back to getting personal. Where it always goes.

Merry Christmas everyone!

If you want to go their NP, "normal" people would never say an 1800 south Texas ranch surrounded by a high fence would equate to shooting a deer in a pen that's captive.

And you and others on this thread have it all backward.

First, if the deer could speak they would say: "why would I want to escape to land that kills me when I'm only 1-2 years old, does nothing to create browse for me, doesn't provide water or cover for me, and at least allow me to live to maturity?".

Most of this practice was brought on because of all the hunters that just want to take whatever nature is there for the taking regardless of the long term affects.

A great example of this was in the deer section a few weeks ago. A member pointed out the sorry management being done by his inlaws. They bought 18 acres next to a 600 acre owner and have killed all 4 bucks they've seen cross on to their 18 acres regardless of age etc....

If I owned the 600 acres I would high fence it to PROTECT the deer not keep them captive!

And the majority, not all of HF ranches are protecting and nurturing their wildlife, a very valuable resource.

Confining them sure protects them: for the exclusive use and benefit of the one confining them. That's a fact.

Ownership of the land they reside on confines them for the exlusive benefit of the owner as well wether its HF or not no?

Now we find something we can agree on. Why does that bother you? Would you not want to see those young bucks protected that were killed on that 18 acres?

I didn't know the truth was an attack? You have not called people animals Tame, Livestock and Now Captive?


This is the second time this year you have jumped on a thread of a guy telling about his hunt and basically told him he was crap for it.

Why didn't you just tell the op you sux for hunting a HF and you sux more because you couldn't kill a captive animal.... Merry Christmas everyone... Lol. That would of been not trying to trash another Real perspective on hunting a HF place.

I'm thinking about erecting a glass dome over our place.

The deer are going to study up on star treck and beam on out scottie!

That would be very handy if you could put a sliding roof to let just the right amount of rain in, but not like this year!

Then we could have a sliding roof vs. no sliding roof debate.

Chris,

Did the rancher say whether the hogs are in the HF area because the rancher likes them or are they that hard to eradicate even in the HF area?

JR

So TRUE

^^^^^^

JR, I can answer that because I know the ranch. They're danged sure not inside the high fence because the owner wants them in there. The country is so thick with multiple creeks throughout the property there just isn't a way to eradicate all the feral hogs by gun, trap or helicopter.

I have wanted to install a Mote with Alligators that have Aids around my place

This is pure entertainment. I hope you don't vote!


All I can think about is this clip from Billy Madison:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrB8pawYHhWolUAVouJzbkF?p=billy%20madison%20quotes%20i%20award%20you%20no%20points&fr=chr-greentree_ff&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Ai%2Cm%3Apivot#id=2&vid=bb512d420acdd127f7e79b0a4ee20f8d&action=view

Aren't the deer outside of the fence, for the most part, only able to be hunted by the neighboring land? I hunt the deer inside the fence and my neighbors hunt the deer outside the fence. I manage them how I want to and they can manage how they want to.

Just bc a place is low fenced doesn't mean the people aren't able to pattern them from year to year. Look at TLKs place. Almost every big deer they shoot it is stated that they have history of the buck for several years.

"aren't able to pattern them"


If people spent more time trying to learn this other than worrying about how and why people hunt a certain way they would be 10 times more Big Deer killed...

Im getting at is that people can pattern LF deer from year to year. Not all but some

Define ironic.....you just destroyed a cut and paste link

Uuuuhhhhh...yeah, that is elementary. Nice of you to point out the obvious, but I have no idea how that has anything to do with confining animals in a HF.

Penning them in has a tendency to shorten the "patterning" learning curve quite considerably.

Not a learning curve it's time in the feild. If you hunt a smaller property you will always have issues patterning deer because your land doesn't exceed thier home range. Even on smaller HF places patterning is a feild excrise in home area and food source patterning, same with small LF property.

Why book with an outfitter- same reason he already put the feild time in and patterned the animals for you

I bet you can figure it out. The fact that you have 39,129 posts tells me you have PLENTY of time to highlight and open the link in another tab. If deer are held captive by feeders, then you are definitely held captive by an internet forum!

Lol... I can multi task. Easy to learn

You won't have any issues if there is a high fence around it! Guaranteed, your land IS their home range forever.

40 sections... You think a HF matters? And it's not forever if they wany out or in they will

Yes.

400 acres. You think a HF matters?

Depends on the lay of the land and how you hunt. Some deer won't come to corn.

I hunted one buck for three years. I know exactly where he is at. Watch him stand and watch him bed almost every morning and evening but he will not leave that canyon during day light hours. He litteraly lives on less the 200acres. 400 acres wouldn't matter. You bust him out of the canyon is gone, if he hit a fence he would jump it or just find more cover to disappear.

Patterning is just being in the feild.

All THF users:

Hunt how and where you want and be proud.


THF developers:

With respect, please consider the following suggestion to stop the HF vs LF insanity! On submit, sanitize the textarea field (id="texteditor", name="Body") of all occurrences of HF and LF and various forms, case-insensitive via PHP's str_replace() or, alternately, preg_replace(). <grin>


To success,
Mickey

Back to the extremes again to try and prove a point. Read your post, it says "smaller property," did you not write that?

I have no idea what that last sentence means...

I agree. Have a HF section in a separate area or fourm; it doesn't belong in a "hunting forum."

I agree but you would need a Mop to get all the Tears up from the Elitest Crowd ...

IMO as soon as it comes up it should be deleted

mark.
40 sections is my reality and I'm small compared to my neighbors. my other reality is 28. It's small compared to Neibghors. HF wouldn't make a difference one way or the other. I guess my land holding and lease are extreme in your world.



Is this LF or HF? Would 400 acre make a difference?

Really, then go else where. HUNTING is hunting. Go find you a free range real hunting forum there big dawg.

doesn't rob lay run one...when he's not on a guided hunt....

yeah, don't let the door hit you......maybe you could name it BillyMadison.com since that's all you got when your brain goes into lock....

I'll give Rob credit, I know most of the outfitters he hunts with and areas he hunts. They aren't much of point and shoot hunts. Still have to be very physically able and prepare for such. He went 0-3 his first few years on outfitted hunts. He wanted tough and he got it. He isnt a fan of the HF but he has never hunted one either. We all choose on how hard we want to hunt. When you pick a weapon you are changing degrees of difficulty. Most of Rob animals aren't targeted by him based of the degree of Weariness for say, he picks those based on an internal challenge and the obstacles he has to over come to get to that point to take the animal.

There is a difference just like HF. I have a freind that has two LF elk over 390. He shot both of them with in 48 and 72hrs of stepping foot on the properties. Both where loaded out with flat bed trucks. Those elk weren't random, but it's LF right. Who cares if he never got 200yards from the truck.. Rob got his elk with a bow...way back in the backcountry. All great animals, beauty of American being able to dictate how you choose hunt. We all hunt different ways and different places all have different degrees of hardship. We pick those via what we want to hunt in the end it's all hunting and we all should be proud and no big dawg on a forum should have the ability to demean.

Debates will never end they are circular. HF vs LF, Small land holdings vs LG, private vs public, guided vs unguided. Same mind set in each agruement.

Seems like your always trying and turn things into a measuring contest.... Reminds me of the old saying "legend in his own mind"

Pitchfork and Bobo - I hope your responses were not directed at me and believe they were directed at MarkE. I was in no way suggesting anything against HF. My post started with...


...totally in support of those who choose to hunt HF. Additionally, a while back I posted similar support in...

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbth..._hu#Post5587255

Furthermore, I still applaud OP, ChrisB, for his post.

-Mickey

What?? This is your quote

You stated that on a smaller property, the land doesn't exceed a deer's home range. Then, you throw this "my reality is 28 and 40 sections" in the mix. Your talking in circles.

You didn't know..... I am a legend, But guess what I have never, nor will I ever demean a hunt on this forum.

NP and Marke have. What kind of legends are they?


I'm blessed in my hunting but I assure you it's not with out sacrifice but at same time how many acres are you truely hunting each sit so does it really matter how many acres I hunt? I'm not Chris Kyle so probably the same amount of area you hunt each sit.

They were at you. Shame on these internet forum addicts (time well spent)!

It's all good Mickey. WE are on the same page. Understood your post from the beginning.

MarkE - not trying to gang up on your or be rude or condescending but I have to ask. Do you know what a section is? If so, then Bobo's posts would make sense. If you do know, sorry I can't help. If not then read up at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_%28United_States_land_surveying%29.

Again, not trying to be a smart @$$.

-Mickey

If this is the best you've got you are way over matched.....

Just like calling your buddy to write the same "legend in your own mind" crap you always throw out there with your BillyMadison video. Extremely LAME. And very childish. How old are you? Does your mom and dad allow you unsupervised access to the internet?

I also posted a picture of a some land and asked if that 400 acres was LF or HF. It's solid scrub, not far from where the OP hunted. 400 acres in the panhandle isn't the same as Hill country nor is the Hill country same as STX.

400 acres is hard to pattern a deer, but degree of patterning comes more from terrain more then just pure size. Home ranges varies, it can also shrink with pressure. If you think 400 acres is a skillet shoot cool, but I doubt there is a size limit since OP just stated 1900 acres. It's not circular when you are already all encompassing. It's Blk or white with you HF or LF.

You can still pattern deer on 400 acres just like you can 1900 or 40 sections. Each will take time in the stand and knowledge of core useage areas to do it. May take you longer and more time to figure when he utlizes that part of his Home Range. Even 400 HF, he isn't going to utlize all of that 400 acres plus he will be more sensitive to pressure.



I patterned a buck on 200 acres, and haven't been able to kill him because of where he stays for three years now. Watched him probably 30 times bed and and un bed in three years with a spotting scope. He stays in that cayon from dawn to dusk.

You have to read the prior posts...

Business must be slow, I guess I can see why. Seems a little weird you are so familiar with my posts.....hell, you know them better that I. I don't know you or anyone else on here but this is one of the reasons I don't respond to anything you post. A little scary when some "dude" is quoting me and acting like he knows me....weird.

it takes two seconds to see all your posts. Click name and posts by user

Wait a minute, you only know 28 and 40 section ranches! I bet a hf wouldn't have helped.

You don't respond to me because you have shot all of your ammo on me....the video, the look at all the posts you have comment, the same quotes over and over.... this always occurs when you are in search of logic to support your argument.....brain lock....pattern repeated....

You can click on your name and see all your posts, maybe this would help you solve this problem?

Ahhhhh. I couldn't care less to see that but I guess others choose to spend their time studying folk's history. Yall have fun with that!

I also hunt a 2500 acre place too....Best friend owns The 2500 and 200. I own the 40 and lease the other. Both are about as opposite as you can get. High plains vs STX. But anyway HF wouldn't matter. I cant get in that canyon with out blowing him out. Tried. He baffled the hell out of me. Literally would get him at night on camera at two locations both at the mouth. I spent two days behind a spotting scope before I found him. He has two spots with in the canyon he will bed depending on wind. He can jump up a 8ft canyon wall what do you think he will do at a HF. Get to the fence stop and wait for me to get there and shot him...lol

How many acres are actually hunting each sit? Truely cover with Firearm?

So about this glass dome I'm going to build over our ranch. I'm thinking one way glass so the neighbors can't see our deer, but we can see their deer. Bullet proof glass of course.

I'm not sure why this debate always hinges on whether or not it's real hunting. To me, the much bigger issue is that high fences have led to the proliferation of invasive, nonindigenous species. Let's yell about that for a few pages.

I think it would nuke every thing in side, kind of like a magnifying glass and ants..

Lets. Now if these fences keep all animals captive, how did all these exotics end up free ranging all over the hill country and west Texas? I must say when I was lucky enough to be invited to JohnRussell's place between Rocksprings and Del Rio, I thought it was really cool to be able to shoot an Axis and Aoudad in the early spring. I'm torn between protecting the native game and having game to hunt year round that are extremely tasty. (axis) 25 years ago when I hunted this area there were nothing but whitetails, javelina, and turkey. Now hunting Johns' place almost seemed like Africa. Lol.

We damn near wiped out the whitetail. If we really wanted an animal gone... It would be gone

checked on a thread put on video on FB it done gone missing... Tis a conspiracy i tell ya... tis part of that thar ignorance list

marke, I take it from your many posts that you must be a true hunter way above the rest of us. I also take it that hunting a HF would not be enough a challenge for a hunter of your caliber. Is what I am thinking correct?

You never asked about the picture. From that point I can cover 300 acres+- with spotting scope.

I'm hunting there for a reason there is a big boy that lives right there seen him once with out a gun and a few others have seen him. Seen him also with spotting scope in the brush a few times. He litteraly lives in that draw. He won't come to corn and I cant Sniper him due to the thick brush. I can cover 300 acres with a spotting scope and still only have maybe 20 acres of openings but litteraly can only shot on an 8' X 400 yard sendero.
HF won't make him come out of the brush. Rut might if a doe is hot. Would a HF make him come out nope.

Point was HF wouldn't matter I can only hunt about 300-400 yards on a 3 way on the majority of that ranch. How many acres are you truely hunting(can cover with a rifle) each time you sit?

The ranch is big but small compared to neighboring but at same time because of vegetation you can't hunt much at a given time. So what's the difference between big and small ranches. You can find core areas easier on a big ranch because you can travel more ground but hunting doesn't change you can only see and shoot so far.

That was my point in the 40 and 28 sections, cool I hunt big property but am I really hunting all of it.... Nope. Just like if you hunted a 400 acre HF.... Are you hunting all of it? not unless it's a plowed feild

Sad actually ...

I think the majority has the same outlook and thoughts ...
Have fun and enjoy your hunts and harvests ...
But you have a handful that seems to seek enjoyment in de moralizing and degrading Hunters practices and methods. I can't put into words how many people I encounter when taking about THF that comment on a few that seem to stir the pot and demoralize hunting as the few we have. They actually laugh at it and other sites do also. I do NOT hunt a HF, but it's amazing how narrow minded people are and degrade Hunters with the Elitest mentality. Anyone here that has ever had the pleasure of sharing a field or a hunt with Pitchfork or BoBo would NEVER describe them as the childish comments above reflect. With out a doubt two of the Classiest and Unselfish Human Beings you have ever had the Honor of sharing a Hunt with, they just have the intelligence to spot Ignorance a mile away and have the expertise and field time to back it up...

Sad that a couple of "stirrers" decide to gain attention by degrading others accomplishments and hard work with the constant belittling of good hard working people with mindless attacks..

I would be ashamed to be associated with it. As so many good people have stated on here so many times, if it's moral, ethical, amd legal go enjoy your self and have fun... Isn't that what hunting is about, but you have a cancerous cell of miserable elitist who feel it's necessary to degrade Hunters Descisions.

No. I'm very passionate about hunting and that is all I do whenever I can. I'm not above anyone in any aspect. I just don't like high fences....never have.

Why so critical of others then?

As pappy once said: would rather be hunting than working, but a wise person realizes by working can aford ta hunt... First lease was on was $200.00 for a year... 24-7-365 hunting, got on it cause had hogs... Family lease, wife & kids, camping... We run up credit card, on building house... Taking old one moved it ta were be sitting here typing, plumbing, wireing, sheetrock, new roof, insulation... Repairs on vihicals, trips back home ta visit family & friends, Christmas gifts for kids... Just every day living, when first starting out, on a $7.22 an hour income... At work constantly being told how bad times are, while shoveling down in dirty nasty hole... is about leasing, if ya wanna hunt... Our kids didn't know how poor we was... When credit adviser said: leasing is a bad investment ... i took responsibility & we walked out... Didn't get on leases that were about the big bucks , if it was legal, up ta tag holder, was about family, friends, & en & chillen ... Like ma & pa usedta do... Seen the ya gotta pay play, the culling games, & hunting is a sport? We educated kids about money... Just cause person can't spell, doesn't mean can't think for themselves... 4 deer county here, got feeders, food plots, yet year after year would find me down at WMA archery only, & the 3 months hog any legal means... As pappy says: Tis me, & who i wanna be... asked this in poll forum bout HF... What does a HF have ta offer that LF doesn't have...

Because it's people like him whose job is to tell the rest of us that only what they like is right and even though they can't stop another from doing it they will just belittle them on every thread they get a chance to.

Do you not get enough attention that you need to appear stupid..

I have seen better intelligence in a sandwich... If you can't speak in an intelligent manner go away