How times change.

It used to be that people wanted to know what a deer scored. Did not want to shoot them until they were at least a 150". Now they want to know how old it is. As long as he is at least 6 years old. does not matter what he scores as long as he is old enough. I wonder what next year will bring deciding on if a Buck can be taken or not?

Before that, points were measured in tines, and an eight point or better was really something. Before that, any buck was a trophy. Before that, any deer.

Some of us are still happy with any deer.

If nobody ever mentioned score on a deer again (unless it was a record book buck), it would be fine with me. If age is becoming more important that's a great trend IMO.

In the AZ unit I took my sheep in, there was a 13 year old ram taken, yet he was the second lowest scoring ram taken in the unit. I would have gladly taken that ram, and every hunter I talked to said the same thing.

I have hunted long enough to remember when width and how much a buck weighed were the first things talked about. I shoot what I like these days not what some "book" wants me to.

I think growing old has to be beneficial. I wanna say people are gonna shy away from anything with non typical points and look only for clean symmetrical racks

Leases we were on it was, if its legal, its up ta one hold tag ... Person works hard, pays lease fees, invests in camper, corn food plots hunting licence, ya'll know the rut we go threw... We was just starting out, streatching $7.22 an hour pay check... Credit adviser said hunting lease bad investment.. As pappy said: tis used ta being laughed at made fun of ... We Thanked em for advice & walked out... Allways heard how Bad times are... Less than a buck a day... Enjoy the great outdoors, camp, chance for ta do some en & chillen... Beat working in that thar hot, nasty, stinken foundry.... We payed our bills, roof over head, did best we could, with what little we had.... Income is even less, times have changed.... Can't aford hunten lease, scraped for the $24.00 hunten permit, & the $48.00 WMA permit.... Cant complain got some pork the other wild game chillen in freezer, pork on the , hay, a one deer county for years tis now 4deer county....

Yessr

I too remember the "points" years. A little 1 year old basket 10 pointer was as big of a trophy as a 7 year old monster 8 pointer. We also had the guys that claimed that deer got a point for each year old the were.

And some of us are old enough to remember when only bucks were legal.

Im happy hunting. Pretty much have only had 2 stages in my hunting, first was trigger happy wanted to kill anything and everything buck, doe, hog didn't matter. Second old buck slipped up and happended to get shot by yours truly, looking at the old buck in comparison to all the others I had shot was night and day difference in every aspect, turned to a new page and have tried to let them age since. The feeding we do promotes excesive densities, so I still get to feed my trigger finger on pop control side as well.

And spikes were illegal.

+1

agreed

I shoot what is legal

sausage quality as completed by Slovacek is all I care about

Guys start talking numbers on scores and it just sounds like sports' stats gibberish to me. I know what an old deer looks like. If I see something weird, I don't have anything like that, it's not Bambi, and my heart rate goes up, it's go time.

This subject is part and parcel to the infamous "Is it a cull or is it a trophy?" discussion on so many leases that causes so many problems.

I remember when we actually had doe permits when we hunted in Mason county for many years.

THis was all before country was commercialized. Isn't amazing how we have learned to make money off of everything. Now days its hard just here a good old country song mostly have to listen to songs baout lifted trucks or half rap country crap.

Tis the American way to put points on osmething how else do we monetize it?

Tis main reason stay out of the Deer Hunting section on here... Had thread What is culling? , or something like that... Thread tis gone missing... Times have changed, first deer rifle was a Kentucky .45 went high-tech ta a . 270 ... Age of high-tech Bigger, Faster, Better.. it reminds me of Country tune... Grampa, tell me bout the good old days ... i got cheap posts

I remember when weight was the biggest factor. If you told someone you had got a deer, it was "How much did he weigh?". Most of the racks where nailed to a barn/shed, or thrown in a pile.

In the late 70s, my dad hunted a whole season and only saw three deer (and shot them all). Now days seeing three deer is a slow half-hour.

What did he score?

Trolling eh Rifleman?

I can visualize something a lot better with a score in mind when the description is, he was heavy, decent curl and broomed like tree stump.

"xactly" what I thought

I would like any Ram with a curl, seen a few good ones in Colorado, but wouldn't know a trophy, one with a curl would be a trophy to me...

He was not book, but he wasn't a baby. Score was 155 or so.

I really would like to see pics of the 13 year old too biologist said he looked like an "old man" sheep on his last legs. He was known to them and had been for some time. Just knew how to not show himself.

Desert or Rocky Mountain Nogales? You might check this blog. I can't open it at work but it mentions a 13 year old ram.

Little Horn Outfitters
littlehornoutfitters.blogspot.com/
Jim finally got lucky and drew a tag after nearly 10 years of applications and hunted ... guided Jim to this gorgeous old ram which was aged at 13 years old and had a ... It's a rare occasion to post a story of one of the guys doing their own sheep ...

LHO ram in the blog is a Dall from Alaska.

Ah, sorry. Danged work filters.

They kill some giants though in AZ and are usually the subs for the gov tag.

Desert. Can't open link but IIRC that ram was MUCH bigger.

Oops wrong ram.

At one time I bought into the record book, score,score,score. Soon however It took the fun out of "hunting"... the man vs. animal hunting concept turned into man vs man for score. A competition vs. enjoyment and pleasure.

I went back to my roots many years ago. I hunt for me. If you like it you make the call. Then there is no right or wrong answer.
In my opinion.

It was that way with me in my early hunting days where does could only be taken with a permit if the landowner would get them and spikes were illegal.
We would kill the first buck we saw. If you killed a eight point that was really something, and a ten point was a trophy. Killing an old buck was rare since most folks hunted that way back then.
I will say those old bucks were like ghosts.
There are still some parts of the state that are still that way, where ranches were cut up into ranchetts and after the first couple of years of fantastic hunting the area gets "shot out" then it's if it's brown it's down!

These were trophies. My grandfather is on the right. His friend's deer is a "monster". San Antonio, early 1920's, maybe earlier (the car looks maybe 1918, but who knows how old it is in the picture). Note the snow on the roof, in San Antonio.

Love the photo CR, I'd have that framed if it was my grandad

Thanks Dennis. Yep, it's in a double frame. It's next to a picture of his dog handler, "Old Joe", holding a shotgun and one of my grandfather's Irish Setters (in reality Joe's Irish Setter) is pointing. 'Shame no one left knows Joe's last name. Different times entirely.

That's a great picture CR.

My other grandfather would leave Austin every Christmas Day and hunt out of Laredo for 2 weeks. (My wife told me early in our marriage that that ain't happnin'.) I figure it took him about as long to get to Laredo in the 19 teens as it takes me to get out to north of Sanderson, 5+ hours. Interesting that he didn't ever take my dad hunting. Dad's FIL, the guy in the picture, is who took him when dad was in his 20's. I don't think men took "kids" hunting back then. 'More of a right of passage type thing and a helluva lot more men wanted to hunt back then.

Hell CR, the old fart probably hunted all the way to Laredo!! Probably OK to do back then, can sure bet there where a lot less fences and bigger ranches back in the day.

I think over all we have better hunting now than "back then"

I'm all for harvesting mature animals, but I agree that people get far too caught up with score

To me it is all a matter of perspective. I have hunted 55 years now and do remember when points was the guiding factor. Scoring can get too much emphasis for sure but it is a way to visualize the size of a buck when discussing or comparing. I was fortunate to kill a book deer a few years back and friends were telling me I wouldn't enjoy hunting as much because I would never match that deer again. Not true. I still get excited when I see a nice buck whether 160 or 190. So even though the horn measurement can get out of control it is still a useful tool in management and for comparisons

I am now 42 and did not grow up hunting, just wasn't something my dad did. I didn't really start hunting until I was about 27 or so. And for a while I was the worst kind of hunter (uneducated). If it walked into my limited range, it was shot at. Sometimes hit, sometimes killed, and it didn't matter to me what it was. Buck, doe,or spike as long as I could get it to the processor. I now know alot more about deer, about hunting, and about shooting. I am not going to take a shot on any animal I am not sure I can get a good hit on, I am not going to take a shot on any animal that I do not know much about (sex, approx age,......). I also take my boys out hunting with me and teach them these lessons. As much as I love my dad, he was not a hunter and did not teach me how to do these things, can't blame a man for not teaching me something he didn't know either. But I now enjoy the hunt and try to keep my freezer full of venison, but that doesn't always happen. That is ok too. Score means nothing to me, I have tried boiling, baking, and frying! Antlers still taste like poo. Oh and I no longer go to the processor (except for sausage) my wife and I do all our own butchering and I prefer it this way.

Yep. I am the exact same way. And I take mine to Snook too.

Ed's Butcher block in Bryan makes the best sausage I have ever had. I get "Marvins recipe"

Ive hunted in Arkansas and don't like it. They have the IF ITS BROWN ITS DOWN! belief. You ought to go up there on opening weekend of rifle season. Its twice as bad as the opening weekend of the Illinois shot gun weekend. Ive never felt like I needed to duck and cover so bad while deer hunting in my life. Every Texan that hunts in Texas needs to be thankful for our long hunting seasons. Those northern ways of letting people hunt are the dumbest thing Ive ever seen. Its extremely dangerous even with blaze orange, because guess what. THOSE BULLETS CANT SEE ORANGE and will come right at you. Letting a bunch or hunter frustrated people loose all at once for a short period of time to kill deer is a bad idea. Its like an ammo run and I don't know anybody that likes to rumble around to buy ammo. If the state of Texas ever does us this way I will find me a filabuster to protest the BULLS T! because as of right now we have all got it made in the shade and Im telling you be greatfull. Those new Texas antler restrictions work too, Ive seen more 3 year old and up bucks the last few years than Ive ever seen. I like a deer that Im happy with and Im not worried about the next persons opinion. Whether its a cull buck or one with some big prongs.

I'm happy with any deer that is not a squirrel. I am also happy with a squirrel though. Maybe I'm just happy.

Edit: Its like in other threads on here bout hunters, complaining about neighboring hunters legaly putting their stands up on fence line... were i come from we hunt for for en & chillen... tis a lowfer, free ranging low income hunter enjoying the Freedom ta legally take 4 deer... i got cheap posts...

Things have changed for me, for sure. Now that we have our modest bit of land, when I see a really nice buck my thoughts are that the local gene pool is looking good. I want the nice bucks to 'get lucky' a lot and fill the place with nice deer. As for the freezer this season, I have my eye on a fat 3 point that is presently in velvet.

It's true, you are a happy guy.

603Country made me think, I went to an ag seminar recently and during one of the breaks I asked the extension agent about the landowners groups I'd heard about meeting to discuss group management goals amongst smaller properties with low fence, since I own one. Two of the agents implied it's basically harder than hell to get one together, much less get anyone to agree on anything.

First lease got on was because it had hogs, thats 24-7-365 hunting 1 buck... The buck tag could fill here, latrr found out at lease we had 3days take do... No does here, we tried, was tld not enough deer... Ended up loosing that lease, did find hunter 3 times that were not supose ta be their, talked ta two, they said they had permission... Next lease different county, same price, looked in hunting book, said 2 buck county.... when new hunting book came out it went ta 1 buck, guess it got shot out, reason for openings... Never heard any trouphy hunting talking, legal was legal.... Found lease closer ta home, started it... We got 1 doe tag... we set aside for wives & kids... Then WMA opened up & started hunting thei archery, only time used rifle was hog hunts... fFew years back it went 4 deer county... Been doing food plot, corn, minerals for years... Deer season would hit WMA for the archery hunts, till shoulder went kaput... Ya dont have ta go to ag seminar ta figure out theirs gonna be differences, had heard the debates years ago, & just short time been on here have read many threads on it in discution form, so didnt bother reading deer hunting form.. Just seeing if some one wanted ta do hog hunt on public land... i've put my in on several threads... Thought that was what discution form was about, try put some humor in from time ta time... Still got all my tags since it went legal 4 deer county, have seen many legal deer, few basket racks, not the legal 13" then as pappy once said: not alot of protien on them bones would save some big bucks at the store from the meat on them bones... times is tough... For some tougher than others... Few could make it off my income.. Best wishes ta all... huntsolo another cheap post....

I know a guy that bought some land to hunt elk in Colorado. He said opening day the little blaze orange martians came out of the valley and onto his mountain property and walked all over his land hunting for elk. He said they were all Mexicans. He went to town to tell the game warden about it. Guess what he was a Mexican too and said I cant do anything about it. For whatever reason I don't know. Too many or too many next of kin. He quit trying to hunt there. See what I am talking about, be thankful for what weve got. Ive got another friend that went to Oklahoma and scouted out some big rubs for a red river public hunting spot. He got up in the tree the next morning and he said that the woods came alive with blaze orange martians and that he thought he was way away from anything or anyone. wrong. He loaded up his junk and came back to Texas. He said hell there wasn't a chance of seeing a big buck unless a human drove it past him.

Public hunting ya deal with that alot.. Had climber already set up, before day light got in stand waited for day light, after few hours heard something from behind, seen orange hunter, came up right side bout 30 yrds out & sat about my 2.. Still had Plenty of room... Finaly eased down he never did turn look.. Went ta tent took a nap... Went back out later he was gone... Have accidently walked up on hunter, myself, appolagies & moved on... It happens, & my favoret time ta hunt was the third part of archery deer&hog... At same time was squirrel&hog.. Bad part all hunters had ta wear the orange... whin got ta stand tied the orange above my head around tree... Never had problems, & squirrel , hog hunters, most had dogs.... Kept things moving, use them ta your advantage... i try ta keep open mind... 98% are out their ta hunt just like you... The orange is for your safty, know a young lady who was shot on public land... She is doing okay...

Not so much into to "trophy" hunting but do pass on younger bucks. Prefer a buck in his his prime, regardless of score as long as he meets regs. Weight of the deer is all geographically relative so I don't even think about that. When hunting in Ohio a 200 pound deer is normal, but here in Texas that would be considered huge. There has not been one year in nearly 50 years of hunting that I have used all my tags. Told the wife that this might be the year I will fill the freezer to the max. And this is only because the ranch is at carrying capacity and doe/buck ratio has started to creep up. In the old days you were taught never to shoot a doe. Then 20 years ago you were told not to shoot a doe during the rut. Then 10 years ago, don't shoot a doe after the rut because she might be pregnant. Well now, I will shoot a doe on opening day if I have the chance.

Right on colt 45 keep it safe out there in the world of orange and stray bullets.

A big old so-called management buck trips my trigger . And a trophy to me personally is anything that fits the country I'm hunting. I have a 170+ but the buck thats on the wall is a 132 eight point I harvested in Marion county.

i gots me depends incase chit happens... Yagh, one time was way back in the hollows whem mother nature called... Twas head high in the switch cain, droped me britches, squated, shot rang out, chit turned ta runs, thought some one mistook me fur a white-tail... Fell forward, snake bout 2foot from me... On a cool foggy mornen can still hear the screams, some say its a panther... Safe hunten...

Yes, there is more to a "trophy" than numbers. Much more. I am getting an ancient buck I shot on my place last year pedestal mounted. Had one trail camera pic of him in 2009. Otherwise, he was a ghost. Happened to catch him locked on a hot doe one day last year - still took from daybreak until 3 PM for him to give me one chance at him through an opening in the brush (he literally ran across every opening after his doe had crossed).

His score? Not much. But to call him a "cull" would be an insult to such an animal.

I too hate the word "cull" when talking about Animals. When people approach me about hunting and they udder that word I set them straight and tell them I have none of those and they are not invited here to hunt. A few years ago I had a man and wife hunting here. She took a young 8 point and when I went to pick them and the Deer up he called it a cull. I told him it was just a young deer and that they must have thought it was good when she pulled the trigger. Even though they have wanted to come back hunting they will not be allowed.

How times have changed We getten thunderstorm here

I like to let them grow up just to see their potential. QDMA has changed perspective on management.

I've hunted a long time and I am at the point in my life where I shoot what I like. Typically where I hunt in VA (my property) that's an older deer for our area (remember this is free range and I am not in Texas...so any deer over 4 1/2 is ancient)....I don't shoot young deer because like many others on this thread I like to see how they turn out.

That said, when I am on an out of state hunt with an outfitter it's typically about score AND age. Show me two deer in the same food plot and one is a 150" 10 point that's young (say 3 1/2) and the other a 140ish" 8 point that is mature with mass and bladed times.... I'll always shoot the 8 point. That said, if on that same 5 day hunt...and that 3 1/2 yr old 150" 10 point walks out by himself....he's probably going to get shot. A 150" free range deer is hard to come by.

So it depends a little on where you are and the circumstances.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

The 70 acres the range is on will one day also be home. I have been seeing deer on my land every month this year. Saw 5 head last week at the end of my driveway. I am so excited to see deer, any deer repeatedly coming back to my place. Last week I saw one buck in the group, a young 6 or 8 and the first thought I had was "I sure hope he makes it another few years". I suspect all my shots this year, on my own land, will be with a camera instead of a rifle. Hopefully I can get a food plot put in this year and keep it going from now on. I have high hopes of being able to watch the deer herd grow, and that will be just as fun as taking a buck. I'll get my shots off on the coyotes and hogs, I enjoy that more anyway.

My wife started hunting 4 yrs ago. She shot several spikes and does, two does with one shot her second year. She's had a number of bucks that she just wasn't sure if they would meet AR so she passed. Last year she shot an 8 pt that made AR with 1/2" to spare. To say she was thrilled beyond words would be putting it mildly. She was still shaking two hrs later. The score was and should be irrelevant. Her incredible excitement is what it is all about.

Here they have the 13" rule, & for those looking for sreak ta & chill can take a spike... Ta some its all about inches... Can't complain do the best i can... Always about inches...