Cecil Lion # 2...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/Zimbabwe-names-second-american-lion-killer-n402776

Who's next...

Is it just me or does anyone else find it odd that a few weeks after the President visits Africa the corrupt government of Zimbabwe begins a war against hunters.

I believe we better circle the wagons and unite. First stay away from Zimbabwe.

Yeah, if you're going to Zimbabwe, better have permits and follow the law, seems they don't like poaching

Lol.

Hunter : Tried and convicted by Western and NP. Jury of peers from the Hunting Community.LOL

I don't see the collar on Jericho.

I haven't convicted anybody.

I don't feel the need to twist myself into a pretzel defending convicted felon poachers and/or accused poachers just because they kill chit though. As some apparently do.

Hunting is more than making something die. There are standards, rules, zen involved (as in, a way to go about the endeavor that makes it something worthy).

Apparently this is fast becoming lost among the "checklist" crowd.

Sheephunter, would be best for our hunting community to call a "spade a spade". I don't like it any more than you do and if I had the means and want to hunt Zimbabwe, I would. I would just try to follow the rules, I sure wouldn't hunt without the proper permits in an area that is off limits!

I'm thinking you wouldn't either (hunt illegally)....Or condone this kind of behavior......Right.........

Wonder how many 100's of international hunters go to Zimbabwe and have a great, successful hunt, follow the rules and have nothing but great memories , super trophies and photos to share and all without incident?

Dall Sheep, Desert Sheep ... grand slam is a check list. So don't give me that

No one on here supports poaching. 23 lions tagged within the park have been killed outside the park. You know "free range". The Zimbabwe Government can easily issue a legal permit in April and then call it illegal 4 months later. You know it's called "Government corruption". Then again you choose to trust the word of the Zimbabwe government who serves baby elephant for a Birthday Bash. www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/...-birthday-bash/ over a fellow hunter. By the way African hunters don't draw tags or buy tags over the counter in Africa, They don't even go by Walmart and buy a hunting license. Your outfitter takes care of everything for you. Remember Dorothy this isn't Kansas anymore.

Knock ,Knock who is it, It's the Zimbabwe Government and NP we are here to help. Now that's funny

I agree if he's truly guilty then suffer the wrath... but until I see the true facts I'll withhold judgement.


The Mugabe screed continued: The United States “can’t have it both ways. … They can’t say ‘allow our people to visit, allow our people to have safaris,’ to kill our lions and take safari trophies to America.”

Agreed 100%.

However this is not hunting in America. This is hunting in Africa. Hunters don't buy a license at Joe's sporting goods, mail in a check to the African government for a lion tag. Everything is handled by your professional licensed hunter. The African governments are known for their corruption. Zimbabwe has taken away land which was homesteaded by generation and then given it to the less fortunate. "Income redistribution" It would not be beyond them to issue a permit in April then call it illegal in July. Remember Zimbabwe can make up or change the rules as they go.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/...-birthday-bash/ Read the last quote from Mugabe....

Read on.... http://time.com/3976344/cecil-lion-zimbabwe-walter-palmer/

http://time.com/3793333/under-mugabe-robin-hammond-records-the-suffering-of-zimbabwe/

http://time.com/3958315/zimbabwe-white-farmers-return-farms-land/

I'll take yours and BOBOs word for it, I have "0" experience hunting another continent. That said, until I pulled the trigger there, I'd sure makes sure (to the best of my abilities) that the PH is a reputable outfit. If I go there to hunt, hopefully I have done my due diligent, research what was needed and confirmed that has been met.

As I mentioned earlier, 100's of fellas, families go there each year and have no problem. (again, I am assuming that, based on the stories and photos I see)

Only true reference I have is one friend that hunts international more than domestically anymore, he has even hunted the mountains that the Taliban call home, he tells me you best have your ducks in a row, dot your "I's" and cross your "T's) as far as permits and regs. His biggest complaint is the airlines!

I agree I do my homework and I am one of those 100's of fellas. Let's say you did your due diligence and several months later the Zimbabwe Government said you were a poacher on foreign land. Then the media took this and plastered your good name on every news outlet throughout the World. Now what.... Even your friend knew hunting the mountains the Taliban call's home has risk that crossing a "T" and dotting an "I" could not prevent. Because your ducks in a row could become a shooting gallery. Hunting is enjoyed world wide ... and what better way to bring it down than world wide gossip.

I agree, It would be hard to follow the rules when they change, but I believe their hunting tourism would severely suffer if they start a "campaign" against hunters.

Seems this "Cecil" thing snowballed and got more legs when it came out he had prior wildlife violations, paints us all as greedy, animal mongers. That is what offends me the most, we all get labeled by the doings of a few.

I know my bud had to pay "extra monies" to hunt those Afghani and Pakistan Mntns.

another post done gone missing

If I name my neighbor's ducks Cecilia and tempt them to my ponds with corn and maize and sneak down on moonless nights and kill them with a pellet gun, am I ok because someone does that south of the Rio Grand? What if I buy a canned kill in Indiana? Fellow sends me photo of lion he has bought off Craigs List, claims it has marauded his chicken pen? He could kill it but why if he can get someone to pay for the pleasure. I'm all for killing creatures. We set a great example talking about gut shooting Miss Piggy and leaving her to die. Even the THF Photo section says "Please show respect to the animals you harvest".

This Palmer fellow reminds me of BP and their wild well in the Gulf. Bunch of companies trying to do a decent job of drilling and protecting the environment, and they knew BP was trying to coverup the facts just like Palmer....

I just refuse to immediately hang a fellow Hunter based off liberal media reports talking about illegal hunting in a third world country. Especially when it's very fishing being it's an outfitted hunt and story comes out he has a permit but it's illegal because it's collared then because the lion lived on the perserve park and then it's because he used a bow, then it's the not on a quota'ed farm and now Outfitters says everything was a 100% legal etc.

I also won't be like some on here and talk out my [censored] calling game animals that have lived on a National park as tame. Ironically the same type animals that kill for food...and same type animals that have killed people recently. I just find it in very poor taste. Unfortantly it's seems the common theme of those that think their way or the hwy.. If they wouldn't hunt it or spend the money to no one else should and feel the need to demean the practice or style hunting. Then they try to sugar coat it, by calling it in defense of hunting...

BOBO, I agree. I think the problem is partly some folks comment without reading prior post/links, or based solely on agenda. In this deal, I think the media drove much of it and antis found an easy "tweet" for the day.

BTW, I personally don't ignore left leaning media if they are reporting the truth using facts (that's the kicker). I do, for face value, believe what the Zimbabwe guvment spokesman said when gave the nuts and bolts of it in the few news conferences they had. I think the lame-stream media took what little info they had and "made" the story.

Completely agree.

The government is “directing all those in currently in the field to stop their hunting activities and withdraw,” Zimbabwean Environment Secretary Prince Mupazviriho said in an e-mailed statement today.


Zimbabwe Orders All Hunters to ‘Withdraw’ After Killing of Cecil

Well crap, this is getting completely out of hand. Lots of good folks are going to get hurt financially because of some very suspect hunting ethics of a few and then by the power the world has given the uneducated, hysterical masses. Delta is banning certain (legal) trophies in their shipments. Thank you Internet.

This post was not about Palmer... read/click original post... It now appears Zimbabwe got what it wanted with the media... blame the hunters not the government.... sound familiar .... and we are falling for it.... sheep to slaughter

Good post CR, agree 100% and screw Delta, they suck anyway if you compare ratings.

There are a lot of Zimbabwe PHs out working their butts off right now. This will hit them hard when they find out, if it's true. I can only find the story on the Bloomberg site (as in Michael Bloomberg ) and one other questionable looking "news" site. I know they'd suspended hunting right around the outside of Hwange Park, where Cecil was killed, but I can't believe they'd really be that stupid, even for Zimbabwe, to stop all hunting immediately. Can't believe Mugabe would give us white devils in America that much power.

Sheephunter, I have no doubt this incident has sent waves through the echelon that pay for these hunts, or at least they have been put on notice. Hunters probably spend millions to hunt there cumulatively. I doubt they will forget this type of treatment if it isn't on the level for a long time, to many other places to spend a travelers check.

Who would be the group to call them out? or could this be damage control poorly done by Zimbabwe? Safari Club International probably wont say anything, they where quick to remove the Dentist from membership..

Well put, I agree completely. I am very suspect of anything coming from MSM anyway. They are not notoriously truthful about anything.

CR, maybe it just applies to lion hunting? I cant find anything either other than the link above.

.....and Delta Airlines announced today that effective immediately, Delta will no longer ship these five trophies as cargo: lion, leopard, elephant, rhino, and buffalo.

Buffalo?!?! Talk about over-reaching.

http://news.delta.com/delta-bans-shipment-lion-leopard-elephant-rhino-buffalo-trophies

I am surprised as well that some members would take the words of a very corrupt government who makes people disappear that challenge them and the media to convict someone without verifiable facts to prove it.

I hadn't even thought about the angle of the African government being unstable and turning the tables. an interesting perspective. I've never done anything in Africa...probably will forever be above my pay grade.

American hunters don't always help themselves out too much though. I'm a hunter, a land and deer manager. all for conservation and a big supporter of killing meat. so much high dollar trophy hunting these days though. and so much insanity people killing hogs with bombs and machine guns and leaving them laying around. not that I'm against trophy animals...or that I think every hog needs to be eaten. but those are the negative things that the wrong audience remembers. makes it easy for them to make other wrong assumptions.

I guess they read about the "Big Five" ... Might as well be on a plains game hunt....

You always have the Few that need attention Marc

This is a bad situation anyway you look at it. Whether the hunter was right or wrong the public perception by the "non hunter" cannot be considered good right now. The liberal media will run with all this of course - I don't know if the hunter knew or did not know what he was killing but his past history is not good from what I see.

I don't know the answer - I just know that it worries me greatly for the future of hunting - this stuff can snowball and if our "leaders" think it is popular to bash hunting and hunters they will pass legislation.

NBC had an entire segment tonight on eating lion meat - then they stated the lion population is one half of what it use to be.

Not passing judgment either way - I just don't like any of what is going on. Right and wrong is irrelevant now days - it is all about perception

The more time on Cecil, the less time on the old hag running for office and her ethical indiscretions.

I wonder how Hollywood celebrities, the news media, and all other outraged liberals plan to stop the indigenous peoples from poisoning lions after all lion hunting is stopped?

I found this: Zim Parks page .

The request to "withdraw immediately" was for only around Hwange.

If you screw up, the Zim government will post your home address on the Internet. Great marketing savvy right there.

AND, they seem to know that this is gonna cost all kinds of stakeholders, so, in typical African style, they're going begging!

"Jericho" is alive and Johnny Rodrigues is a nincompoop.

And lastly, there's an urgent meeting in a few hours. I'm sure they'll get a ton accomplished.

At that point it wont be their cause since it is no longer the "tweet" of the day. Rest assured they will find something else to pass the time.

High dollar trophy hunting is what butters zimbabwe's bread. If they're so stupid that they'll ban it, let'em starve. I don't eat everything I kill (jackrabbits, predators, and the big nasty boars), buzzards gotta eat. And I dang sure don't denigrate other hunters for their chosen methods/reasons.

Don't know if ya'll heard it or not, but Eric Bolling and Dana Perino on "The Five" today just decided that there was no reason to go to Africa to kill animals.

If hunters don't realize that liberals and conservatives are both ignorant and coming to ban hunting, we really are doomed.

I don't know how to link a Word document, and perhaps many on here wouldn't bother with reading it, but this morning a Zimbabwe outfitter sent me a good paper written on what the game fields of southern Africa will look like and what will happen to the parks and the people if trophy hunting is banned. PM me if anyone is interested and I will email it to you. It might be helpful if you have any friends on the fence.

A lot of the bunny huggers (and a few on here) don't give a rat's posterior what happens in southern Africa and they'll never look back at what their hysteria really wrought. And, a lot of hunters don't realize, as therancher has pointed out, this event's effect on the future of hunting on this continent we're sitting on.

It is grotesquely fascinating to watch the snowball effect around this incident. It scares me for the next time the media decides something should be changed. It might be about something far more serious.

P.S. I've always had a crush on Dana Perino. The wife's cool with it. That kid is as cute as a bug. It saddens me that she's following the east coast greenies.

^^^^ Agree.



When I first married there was the movement to ban the Saturday night special. I fought it. My wife (a good conservative lady) said why! You don't own any and I see no positive use for them.

I sat down and explained what I call the foothold effect.... The anti's are not rational thinkers. They go with the flow, like sheep. Today it's the Saturday night special tomorrow it's all guns.

Now she understands.

That it why I fight for all "Legal" forms of hunting HF,LF, no fence, Trophy hunters, Spike hunters, landowners, leases, public land. Once any of these become's illegal the irrational, uninformed, media driven sheep, march towards "well we proved the saturday night special was bad... then how about the high capacity, short barrel, look alike military"... Then before we know it the "HF" is illegal, Public land is now protected from hunters and our children are faced with "there's no hunting so why not take away the sporting rifle".

Gentleman we may not be clay target shooters, dress in western wear and walk through a make believe western town shooting steel targets, be 3 gun competition shooters , hunt HF, LF, have a lease, hunt public land, have a family member own a large ranch but we all have one thing in common. If there is any form of crack in our armor the anti's will drive a wedge and divide. United we Stand, Divided we Fall....

As hunters everyone of us should have backed Mr. Palmer until we had all the facts. We should have made it clear illegal hunting is not supported but even hunters have the right to due process. Instead some THF sheep thought I don't no anything about Africa like Dana Perino and made a crack out of themselves.

In my opinion SCI's move only added one more crack, our fighting over any form of "legal" hunting only divides.Especially in the society we now live in.

Just my Opinion

Yep. And I think the truth is still not known about the lion hunt.

But, we have people out there now with legitimate hunts being attacked as a result of the power surge of the millions who were "outraged" over a stinkin lion. Many of the miilions were hunters and "conservatives".

Of course the liberal media will slant everything poorly. Of course actions like this put hunters in the spotlight. Of course (when that happens) those that don't hunt overreact.

Which is all the more reason to 1)do things right and 2)not just be a knee-jerk supporter of those who don't
just because a gun/bow and a dead animal is involved.

This is a main reason I don't like the HFs. Yet, when I say this, it's all "LOLs" and "We must stand united."

People are watching us guys. Whether we like it or not. Now more than ever. Time to wake up to that fact. I don't like the situation either, but just being pi**ed about the situation doesn't solve anything.

Great. Why don't YOU do something then?

Why don't you give up YOUR way of hunting? Instead of campaigning for the people who support YOU to give up theirs??

You don't have a clue WHAT I do buddy.

You get all bent because you say I am telling other folks how to act (just because I have an opinion) yet you turn around and directly tell me how to act. Do you not see the hypocrisy?

Since you're all about suggestions, here's one:Why don't you stop making everything personal and telling me what to do when you don't know the first thing about me?

Just came across this: change.org petition request . It's dated, but read the first paragraph and notice how this idiot actually thinks banning trophy shipments is actually going to have an impact on poaching. This much naivete should be a crime punishable by law. And of course now he's taking credit for the Airlines caving.

The picture he chose, although obviously effective for his ill-informed cause, is discriminatory towards heavy people. I'd like to shake the PH's hand that got that poor man a lion. Getting a good male lion on bait properly and ethically is a helluva lot of work.

And lastly, what's this self-righteous clown's definition of "exotic"?

I believe most of the arm chair "activists" have no clue what poaching really is or how it happens. They honestly believe all hunting in Africa is poaching. On my hunt last fall we collected numerous poachers' snares and destroyed a seasonal camp that poachers use. These bleeding hearts have no clue.

It is ironic in the extreme that the REAL poaching threat (by natives of Africa) goes almost unnoticed as isolated sport hunting poaching now is an international outrage.

The media is powerful.

NP hold your breath while you name 9 additional "Anti's" who fully 100% support hunting as long as it's not HF.
1) NP
2)
3)
4)......

This list would be what's called and oxymoron

Anti-supporters

AGREED

Unfortunately it seems only certain animals make the "Zen" list for many people. Racoons, feral pigs, opossum or coyotes don't get much respect and many even think it's okay to gut shoot them. I guess lions have that quality for many people.

Yes, Africans that live in a thatch hut with a grass door that lions can tear out with one swipe. 'Same for hyenas. Sweet dreams.

Another good article, from The Times no less: We don't cry for lions

The CECIL situation is to close to a "CANNED HUNT".

THF outlook on this...


Couple guys bash Hunter

Couple guys see shift in attitudes

Couple guys scramble

This is far from a pro-hunting forum

More like Judge Judy

It's pro hunting, a little chappelle show-like at times. The same arguments just get old after a while when no one is going to change anyone else's mind about the subject. That old saying of your perception is your reality seriously applies in these discussions. Only problem is, even United, hunters are the minority so our perceptions aren't the ones that matter in the grand scheme of things..regardless of preferences, we'll all still go out and hunt something.

Really. Most African hunts and north american "wild" sheep hunts are more "canned".

Yep. The VAST majority are those that let the media tell them what to think.

..... I spent 50 days climbing my rear end off to get 2 wild sheep. 50 days...
I spent 10 days walking from dawn to dark hunting a lion. If these are canned hunts then we will never agree.

You sure have a way of degrading hunting styles that aren't for you. In one sentence you just mocked every animal ever hunted on that 3.6 million acres(they do have hunts) and every surrounding ranch for over a 100 miles. Not only that you just slammed ever animal that migrates off our national parks.

Funny fact lions have a home range of 96 miles... Lots of lions range overlapp that area. I guess the other 400 lions are tame too.




We either support each other or we hang it up via someone else's terms.

I don't know where you hunted and if you liked it, I'm all for it. But, I hunted bear this spring with one of the premier sheep guides in north America. And he VOLUNTEERED that on his dall sheep, stone sheep and desert bighorn they fly the area with a chopper the day before the hunt, and then set up base camp however many hours away they think the hunter wants to hunt.

Obviously if you went for 50 days... you didn't hunt with this guy.

I'm for all legal hunting. And what floats your boat tickles the s*** outta me.

I was just pointing out that a lot of our "hard sheep hunts" are just as "canned" as luring a lion from a refuge.

FWIW, the vast majority had 60 Minutes telling them all about how HF'd hunts were canned not too long ago, don't think that story is anywhere other than on the back burner. We can't even get states to unite and no one is willing to compromise, so where does that leave us?

I know EXACTLY what you do in regards to this topic. You take every opportunity to denigrate and openly call for the banning of high fence hunting. You continuously call everyone who doesn't follow your specific chosen method of hunting, "shooters" and not hunters.

And you took this as another opportunity to suggest that HF's should be banned.

If you can call for the destruction of my type of hunting, I'll call for the destruction of yours.

And you know what? Anti hunters aren't on your side or my side. They hate us both, regardless of how you want to spin it.

We will agree to disagree on the term "a lot" and the poor use of the term "canned". My hunt's were in the 70's and early 80's. During my 21 days,15 days or 14 days I never saw a helicopter. Then again my first sheep hunt cost $150/day. Today that same hunt professionally guided would run 20K. Maybe today with what I'll call high prices, puts more demand on outfitters to produce. Maybe.

Yes, I enjoyed every second, minute, hour and every day of the adventure and cherished memories. Even today I sat with my granddaughters and showed them pictures of sheep camp, sheep back strap cooking in the little frying pan, Papa sitting on top of the world looking down on glaciers and snow covered mountain tops, sharing photos of African trackers who I swear could track a fly for miles... Life is what you make of it, and mine is blessed ... long live legal hunting and I will not sit in judgement of bow, rifle, HF,Lf, no fence or land owners rights.

None of my sheep hunts involved any pre-hunt scouting with a helicopter or anything of that sort. They were all tests of both one's physical and mental fortitude.

My Dall sheep guide in the McKenzies, Hugh Dunn, told me that he and a buddy once guided an SCI president, a Cajun from Louisiana, and a pal in the same area. The two wealthy hunters had chartered a light plane to fly them back to Norman Wells each evening to stay in a motel with their pin-up girlfriends while the guides slept in tents on the mountain. Then every morning, the pilot would fly them out for the day's sheep hunt. That's the closest I've heard of an unethical sheep hunt. I've never hunted a Texas exotic sheep on a HF property, but I'm betting some of those hunts could be construed as canned. And I haven't hunted an Africa lion, period. But to each his own.

Could you share the guy's name who outfits for Dall, Stone and Desert Bighorn? He would be in small company for sure.

Alot of harsh words in this thread that is getting us no where.


This is a poll on the Stephenville newspaper. I am a little shocked that in rural Texas that so many people
would BAN a sporting activity.

Help me out here and hit this link and blow this poll out of the water.
http://www.yourstephenvilletx.com/

Dawaba,

I don't have a dog in the sheep hunting and airplane stuff but it's become common practice enough where laws are quickly coming about to change it.

Lots of states have a time rule but that rule applies only to the Hunter... But not guides directing hunters on the ground.

Majority of rifle limited draw sheep units run almost 100%. To me it doesn't matter how someone scouts or gets to the top of the mountain. You have to stop at one and the tags are allocated with the historical success percentage taken into account. So it's a wash and really comes down to how you want to hunt. Using Ariel scouting isn't about success. Those hunters historical going to tag out anyways... This is all about the Difference in size. If it's not a plane it will be someone camped out babysitting from a distance.

http://www.newsminer.com/news/local_news...6f5d51de2a.html

http://www.liveoutdoors.com/hunting/168259-thoughts-on-dall-sheep-hunting/

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID35/3381.html#.VcIKNaT49D8

http://trib.com/lifestyles/recreation/wy...d2e85079bf.html

Dawaba:

I'm not indicting anyone. I'm just stating facts. I personally don't call hunts canned. But I'm well educated on what other hunters and anti hunters define it as. Which is why I brought up the comparison.

According to the guide, the sheep hunters he guides are typically guys that are from busy lives but like to feel like they're on a difficult wilderness hunt, as long as they can get back to their work ASAP. The 20-40-100,000 they're spendin on hunts is minimal to what they're losing by not being at work (at least in their minds). He did say the outfitter try's to read the customer and taylor the hunt to their wishes, but that typically he gets his dall hunters in and out in a couple of days.

No, I won't identify him. But his family is one of the largest outfitters in the Northwest Territories.

And he's just providing what his market wants. No way I'd ever denigrate anyone for that.

" Life is what you make of it, and mine is blessed smile ... long live legal hunting and I will not sit in judgement of bow, rifle, HF,Lf, no fence or land owners rights. "


Lotta Truth in that Statement

Some people are "stupid rich" and stupid people are jealous of them.

I'm not indicting anyone either, therancher.

I guess personal ethical behavior, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I'd hunted the 90 square mile Santa Rosa Island twice before hunting was banned there by the Feds. I considered the hunt to be very fair and ethical because the island was so vast and mountainous that it was impossible for an animal to get cornered and run out of options. And trying to find the same animal two days in a row was futility itself. But because the deer and elk there were non-native (they had only been there around 100 years) and because the animals technically couldn't escape the island, B&C declined to consider the hunt free chase.

Custer State Park in South Dakota is about the same size as Santa Rosa Island. It is partially high fenced, although not completely so. It is home to the biggest bison in North America. When I finally was drawn for a Custer hunt, I needed only to slowly and carefully stalk to within 51 long steps of my bull and drop it with one shot into the first cervical vertebra. B&C does recognize trophies taken from Custer, and my bull is currently #34 all time in the latest Book.

Now which was the more ethical hunt? To me, there is no doubt; it is Santa Rosa. It was challenging in every way, whereas Custer was just a walk in the park. So I guess each hunter must come to his own conclusions about what is right for him.....

Yep. That's why I don't like associating the term "ethics" with hunting. IMO we are natural predators. And ethics don't come into play when predators kill for food or kill their competing predators.

I'm sick like that.

here is a different slant on the story.
http://news.yahoo.com/zimbabweans-really-care-much-cecil-lion-155514991.html

Another great article from a native Zimbabwean

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html?_r=2

Well said.

When Texans can't agree on concealed vs open carry we have more serious problems than lion in foreign country.

BC, I don't think the majority of naysayers are long time Texas residents. I'd bet many are Liberal imports from East and West coast. They leave there dens of liberalism to escape the rules and regs confinement, then try to change their new home to what they know, seen Colorado turn like that.

It's not about the anti-hunters. It's about the non-hunters.
How do you not get that?

If we have to hang it up via someone else's terms, support for chit like this will play a huge part.
If you want to say a convicted poacher illegally killing a tame lion is a part of your "each other", have at it.

He's not a part of mine.

The great irony is at least he already apologized.

Still using the tame lion bit.....I don't know wether to laugh or feel sorry for you.

Shows you couldn't give 2 poops about about weither that lion was legal or not.... It's all about an opportunity for you to tell everyone how you think others should hunt...

Hang on let me get my NP check list

Still degrading how others hunt...Check
Still acting like you're the superior moral authority on hunting...and it's not even Friday yet.... Check
Cant find a HF thread to call animals tame so decides to call Animals in a 3.6 million acre area as tame...(let's ignore the permitted hunting, and men and women being eaten on the same type areas). Check

Yelp sums it up nicely

There's no such thing as a tame [insert animal that will eat you]. Surely some zoo keepers and magicians have figured that out. If they were to turn the science project lion loose from a cage and it shot would it make for a worse PR issue?

Hang on I have to cancel my bear hunt... Outfitter sent me a pic pretty sure damn thing has an ear tag or it might be a hole from an ear tag...who would of thought on 1 million acres they would have a relocate.

No way I'm taking a chance on shooting Yogi Bear the science project.

So where should I put in for a real bear hunt, obviously the lower 48 is to risky


It's a circular debate....your at the top of the food chain, we had to transplant, breed and limit animals all over North America due to our efficiency in killing.... Defining how you want to hunt is one thing, talking down about some one else's choice of hunting elitism at its finest.

You really make me want to puke the way you just regurgitate the media version of this story and continue to call african lions tame. You also conveniently ignore contradictions to this tame lion thing you keep throwing out and the way the people of that country feel about this ridiculous sensationalism the media and sheople like you have continued to propagate. No comments on the story link NDN98 posted? I guess you just happen to miss reading it, right?

BOBO, hold that tag, I'll chute that sob

Bear I killed., my friend the GW in Colorado inspected it and gave me the seal, he said it was a bear that had been raiding forest service trucks, well trucks and anywhere else it could find easy food, even ripped the door of a couple of the trucks to get in. It was a Telluride "transplant" that had became "conditioned" to people and easy pickens. I dont know if he was tame or not, didn't give him the chance to show me, I just recall his snapping teeth when the 7mm went off

I think that "tame" bear would have kicked my azz for my lunch money...

No, it's about "hunters" who throw other hunters under the bus. And I know how you can not get that. You're so selfish you want only your method to be allowed.

Glad to educate you. Again.

Could book with Troy Gentry.

Friend asked me a question... Why not lower a ladder into the lions cage in Dallas Zoo, then when lion climbed out of cage after the dead chicken, just shoot the lion and say it was in self defense??? No one to know the difference and a dead lion can't talk.

I didn't have an answer. $7.50 ticket to zoo sure is lot cheaper than flying to Africa plus no worry about flying head and hide back to the states.

A lion born on 3.6 million acres, a lion that roamed with no fences 365days a year, a lion that still hunted and killed for its food everday and you didn't have anwser?

BOBO, maybe BC is considering being a PH at the zoo? for the $7.50 I will be his 1st client, but will claim no responsibility if he makes bad choices

Lmao!!!!

Ok that was funny.

Good news I got cleared yesterday.. Still taking horses though. I'm going to milk it.

You got cleared? not very specific?

Been to the "clinic" have we ?? and got it from a horse What the hell you into son!

Out of respect for my elders, I was gonna let that pass. Kinda glad you didn't practice such restraint tho...

Yes sir, not like he hurt his leg or something minor like that.....He is much too careful for that nonsense and too tough to go see a doctor

Yall are old.. I'm just middle aged.

I may or may not been in a restrictive boot for a couple weeks. I may or may not of stepped in a hole and messed my ankle up... Best part of middle aged.. What where we talking about again

BOBO, I made it easy, I didn't criticize you for "how you stepped in a hole", we all do it, some do it one way, some do it the other. But we are all in the stepping into hole thang, so we should stay banded together.....

BTW, was it a wild , or tame hole?

Lmao!!! Well played Sir

Zim lifts temp ban on hunts: SCI/ZPHGA statement

Strange but I don't see any of you mighty hunters jumping into the lion pit at the zoo. So what does it matter if the lion hunts its own food or a zoo keeper provides the food. And I just posed a question, nothing more or less.

Why don't we have a open hunting section and an open killing section??

What's the difference in hunting and killing?

What county do you deer hunt in?

Maybe the doctor will authorize a refill on that script on Monday.

If you don't know you should probably ask some of the members with 10,000 posts or more. So far it seems to be a debatable subject but I'm certain not all the facts are in yet. Does it differ between counties? Is it limited to deer?

Doesn't matter any more just ordered a yard of dirt... Covering my tracks, eliminating the scene of the crime...

He could of killed a released HF lion, he could of used a rifle...etc there a dozen things he could of done to put limitations on himself or not put limitations... In the end you're still the ultimate predator on the planet.

You have 5 deer tags you could most likely fill in a day if not an hour....There are dozen of other examples..
Hunting is an "individual" experience.

Difference between a zoo born penned lion living in an acre enclosure and lion that roams 3.6 million acres...man I'm going to go out on a limb here and say one acre pen vs 3.6 million acres..is pretty significant...just a WILD guess though.

Seriously, we need a "like" button!!!

Maybe you should tell that to the zoo keeper in Dallas that got mauled last year or the adult female lion that got killed by the male lion couple of years ago. So yes, you are correct, "Just a WILD guess though"

Strange to not see a mighty hunter jump into a lion pit? What is so strange about not doing something so STUPID?

We don't have a open killing section because you and anyone else on here does not get to decide what is hunting and what is killing. You can decide for yourself, but not for me.

You fellas are arguing over semantics. Killing, hunting, hunting, killing, just depends on what picture your painting.

History has shown and there is still evidence of man hunting/killing to near extinction, without some kind of controls (rules and regs), that would suggest that man has little control on his own IMO. The original owners of the USA hunted to live, yet they sustained good populations of game, by respecting the resources as a food source, thus guaranteeing a supply.

Throw in wanton hunting /killing and we lost many indigenous species throughout most of the Eastern states and many species here in Texas.

Now we have rules and regs (like them or not) and as long as they are followed, who should have the right to decide which type of hunting/killing is "moral" for someone else that is also following the law? Break those laws and you are stealing from every sport hunter, not even considering the damage you have done to the sport as a whole, when PC and a changing world see it much different.

Would be nice if you would take the time to read earlier posts before coming in with half baked opinions.

Many people want to know if riding in a truck, chasing down and running over a hog, is hunting or killing. If you stop to gut shoot the hog but never get out of the truck, is that hunting or killing? Another post recently was on the subject of what members liked to run over in their car. Possums, coons, turtles, armadillos etc. Then wonder why people have trouble understanding what hunting is about???

We keep shooting ourselves in the foot. I shot my first dove sixty years ago next Sept 1 outside of Penwell Tx. Back then we hunted. I never recall anyone bragging about gut shooting animals. Maybe we can start getting some posts in the ammo section about the best bullet to wound but not kill.

Wait, you couldnt tell you friend the difference between hunting lions in Africa and the zoo? I'm confused.

I've specifically defended the lion in Zim as being not tame, I've also stated several examples of cats attacking and killing people in parks and also bears in parks killing people. Just because a cat sees humans doesn't make it tame, just because someone darted him and put a collar on him doesn't make him tame.

Anyone that would mock a lion being killed with a bow in an area that exceeds home range can't comprehend hunting.

The Doctor hunted a lion, a zoo with a pen smaller then a home lot would be killing a lion. End of the day a dead animal is a dead animal...either you are the one that killed it or you weren't.

Gut shooting a hog is a irrelevant to the conversation.

Sitting on a bucket waiting for doves to come to water or feed is the exact same as the Doctor did with his lion. That's hunting.

"Back then we hunted." What an asinine and arrogant statement.

Criticize everyone else while carefully never stating your own position and exposing it to criticism. Pseudo intelligentsia. Read your own sig line.

One of my regular prayers is that I don't turn into one of those constantly frowning, miserable old farts that goes around grumbling "if they only did it my way".

Many people want to know what's hunting and what's killing? And I guess with all your wisdom of how to hunt you should decide what gos in a hunting section or killing section?

Talking about whether an animal in a "preserve/sanctuary" is dangerous if it has been conditioned to the presence of people.................

http://abcnews.go.com/US/hiker-killed-grizzly-bear-yellowstone-national-park/story?id=32965459

Go pet it, Western....




Sometimes they aren't conditioned to people, they're conditioned to vehicles.

If there is a vehicle, they can smell every person that has ever touched it LOL.

Only way I would pet one, is with my 3 hunerd....

You are correct and I should have stated, "when I was being taught hunting", I never heard anyone bragging about gut shooting animals and leaving them to die. Nor did I hear about running over animals in a vehicle. It probably happened but I honestly don't remember people bragging about it.

Regarding stating opinions, what is your opinion regarding gut shooting and bragging about it?

I asked the question because maybe true sportsmanship has changed or maybe I was taught incorrectly.

No, I asked the question because it has been asked and mentioned on several other posts. I simply asked and to be specific, will ask you also. I am not concerned with the pulled shot or miscalculation in distance or wind resulting in a wounded animal. Does gut shooting a hog and stating it doesn't matter how the animal dies constitute hunting or killing? Do you pride yourself telling others about how you enjoy gut shooting?

Gut shooting a hog is irrelevant to wether one would consider the lion in question tame or wild. That's a completely different topic.

Pitchfork Predator, I owe you an apology and did not mean to imply that you ever said anything negative about dispatching an animal. Please accept my apology. I am off this subject. I only asked the question because I believe hunters may be nailing their own coffins. High/low/no fencing differs from various areas and states, but recently I have noticed a change in attitude and I certainly do not have any answers, only questions.

No worries blackcoal. I agree that we all need to stick together as hunters or we are putting the nails in as well.

A few want to disparage others that don't hunt the way they do. That will never help preserve our hunting rights and only divides us.

We also should be very cautious of any information that comes from the media reporting hunting. As well as corrupt dictatorships that have murdered thousands of people.

We can respect other hunters that don't hunt the way we do. To each their own as long as it's legal. None of us should try to define what's ethical and what's not. What goes around comes around will address those who are not ethical in life.

Well said Marc

If we all grew up in a time and country that did not allow hunting and had not for several generations, how would your opinions differ? You would have no preconceived notions to base an opinion from. No one would care if you shot it with a bazooka, a BB gun or stoned said animal to death. No one would care if it was behind a HF or LF or NF. Even Nogalus wouldn't have an opinion on what was right and wrong. We are headed to a time when we will not be able to hunt because to many people want to argue that their way is the only "ethical" way. And if hunters can't figure out how to stand together, no matter the LEGAL means of harvest, then we're all screwed anyway. If the dentist killed the lion illegally then he is not a hunter but a poacher. We still don't even know all the facts of this hunt. All we know is what the media wants to sensationalize and let us in on. Before we crucify the guy lets get all the facts. I have no desire to hunt Africa, but by all means, if you do I support you. I don't care if you shoot your whitetail every year behind a 2 acre high fence and brag how tough the hunt was and how big the buck was. I don't care if you hunt to eat it, hunt to hang it on the wall or hunt to just kill it (legally on this one, no wonton waste). If it's legal and no meat is wasted that is edible (don't count hogs in this) then hunt anyway you like. This Holier than Thou attitude of I'm right is ignorant, get over yourself.

Summed up my thoughts to a "T"... On all accounts.

I'm out yall have fun

Read on another forum or two, but haven't been able to find a viable root source - ABF abandons all taxidermy shipments. I don't know how many taxidermists use ABF, and the deer hunters that drop off and pick up their own stuff won't be affected, but a lot of taxidermists could be, particularly if this bs snowballs with other freight companies. I've posted a question about it in the taxidermy section.

Not trying to start or further any internet rumors. But, if true, it's kinda like oil in Texas - all these posters that think they're not connected to "Cecil"/African/Trophy hunting (the "who cares?" set) might find out they were wrong.

My stuff hit Houston back in June and is at the taxidermist and tannery. My buddy's stuff got separated and is sitting in Johannesburg, due here in September.

Creekrunner, that makes sense. I think the shippers that game parts are a minute % of their revenue will turn PC on a dime.

How bad is PC, read yesterday that Target is considering removing the "girls and Boys" signs at the clothing and shoes areas, because of complaints concerning gender biased. The "few" have been gaining ground as the "many" tolerate it.

That's what makes this so wild - it's like the millennia old, I think of it as almost a law of nature, that the majority rules is being obliterated by the few, the deranged, the social media obsessed.

WELL SAID!

I gut shoot hogs with a 22 while I'm deer hunting but any other time I shoot them wherever the hell I can with whatever gun I have with me. I don't brag about it but I do it. Hogs are vermin to me and I don't care how they die I just want them to die. It's no different than poison for mice or bugs. When it comes to killing hogs I simply throw my morals out the window. Not proud of it but it is what it is.

Some see hogs as game animals... Some see them as a threat to their well being just like people who hate yotes with a vengeance.

Who are we to judge those that are protecting their lively hood.